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Emotional Outburst from Russian General; U.S.-Trained Ukrainian Pilots Talk with CNN; Ukrainian Officials Prepare Graves; Avi Schiffmann is Interviewed about his Website. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired March 24, 2022 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[06:32:43]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman in Lviv, in western Ukrainian.
The breaking news this morning, Ukrainian forces say they have destroyed a large Russian ship in the Port of Berdyansk. This is in territory that the Russians have controlled with their military. You can see in the pictures, fire is raging there. Secondary explosions taking place we believe in some kind of a fuel tank or munitions depot. This was a large supply ship that the Russians had celebrated being in this Ukrainian port. Now the Ukrainians say they've all but blown it up.
Also this morning, we are learning about an emotional outburst by a normally stoic Russian general in the middle of a rare face-to-face talk between U.S. and Russian military officials. CNN has exclusive access to a readout of what happened.
CNN's Barbara Starr live at the Pentagon with this story.
Barbara, what have you learned?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: John, this was a meeting whose outcome was never expected.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice over): With Russia's war in Ukraine stalled and the U.S. saying morale is a problem for Russian forces, CNN has learned of a rare meeting in Moscow between U.S. and Russian military officials, which, according to a U.S. readout of the meeting contained a, quote, revealing moment from Russian Major General Yevgeny Ilyis, a general with extensive experience dealing with Americans.
As the meeting ended, the readout says an attache on the U.S. side casually asked about Ilyis' family roots in Ukraine. According to the readout, the U.S. official said the general's stoic demeanor suddenly became flushed and agitated. Ilyis replied he was born in Ukraine and went to school in Donetsk. And then said, according to the readout, the situation in Ukraine is tragic and I am very depressed over it, before walking out without shaking hands.
The attache wrote in the readout, the fire in his eyes and flustered demeanor left a chill down the spine.
Meetings with Russian officials are typically scripted, but the two attache's said they had never witnessed such an outburst by Russian counterparts at an official meeting.
The readout by the officials concludes, at the very least, it is clear that morale problems among Russian forces are not limited to frontline troops.
[06:35:06]
The readout describes only the impressions of the U.S. officials and does not definitively explain Ilyis' behavior. Such readouts are typically too sensitive to be made public.
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, AIR FORCE COLONEL (RET.): Readouts of this type are important because they give us an insight, a potential insight into what the Russians are really thinking. But it also shows that there is some kind of a morale problem within the Russian hierarchy and that extends possibly all the way up to the top.
STARR: The Russian ministry of defense did not respond to a CNN request for comment on the meeting or the readout, but the Kremlin has denied reports of low morale among its forces in Ukraine.
DMITRY PESKOV, KREMLIN PRESS SECRETARY: You would probably have to doubt this information. You have to doubt it and you have to think twice whether it is true or not.
STARR: As Russia faces stiff resistance from Ukrainian forces, if the Americans are correct and morale is an issue, it's a challenge the Russians can ill afford.
JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We've seen increasing indications that morale and unit cohesion is a problem. And, yes, that absolutely translates into potential military effectiveness issues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: And just one more mystery about what really may be going on behind Kremlin walls.
John.
BERMAN: Wow, what an unusual and potentially revealing meeting, Barbara. Thank you so much for that report.
On this issue of Russian morale, and maybe poor morale, the Russian air force has been unable to take control of Ukrainian airspace thanks in part to the expertise of pilots trained in the United States.
Joining me now are two Ukrainian air force pilots, trained by Americans. They go by the call signs "Moonfish" and "Juice." We're using their call signs to protect their identities. They're wearing their gear, as you can see so that we can't show their faces. But it's great to have you both on.
Juice, let me just start with you. I don't want you to reveal operational details, but what has it been like for you to battle the Russians in the sky?
"JUICE," UKRAINIAN AIR FORCE PILOT: (INAUDIBLE). Thank you for your invitation. It's a great -- a great opportunity to show the situation in our airspace.
So, from the first day, we are trying to hold our skies, trying to defend our cities, our families, our hospitals and our critical infrastructure. So, that's for me, that's for a fighter pilot, I'm sitting in a (INAUDIBLE) and I'm intercepting Russian targets, Russian strikes, aerial threats like that, bombers, (INAUDIBLE), cruise missiles, et cetera.
BERMAN: Moonfish, we keep reporting that the Russians have not been able to establish complete air superiority.
JUICE: So --
BERMAN: How have you been able to keep them from that?
"MOONFISH," UKRAINIAN AIR FORCE PILOT: What I would say that combining the efforts of our fighters, as well as ground air defense, is a really good mix. Is giving a good match.
And, yes, it is true, we feel free right now to operate in our airspace. And they have control of very little part of Ukrainian sky. And that is where those brutal bombing of peaceful cities like Mariupol and Kharkiv are happening. But so far, by joining all -- like all the efforts we have, we're able to -- we are able to keep our sky out of Russian.
BERMAN: Moonfish, how much longer do you think you will be able to do this?
MOONFISH: This war does not appear to end soon, to be over soon. I think in case we will get some reinforcements but I -- but if west will provide us with some additional jets, we -- some additional SAMs (ph), then we are -- we are really looking forward to it. We -- I think we will be able to control our skies for a while.
Right now we have -- we do not have a lack of experience and highly motivated pilots to do the job, but it might happen that we will be lucky (INAUDIBLE).
BERMAN: And, Juice, I know you would love to have new, more jets. But in addition to that, what do you need from NATO and the west?
JUICE: Yes, so the first problem, it's a number. Of course, it's number of jets, number of course SAMs (ph).
[06:40:03] But another problem is technologies. Unfortunately, Russian airports is a advantage in technologies. Iso using this -- this baby, I -- I'm not effective. I'm not effective against Russian jets, against Russian fighters. So, we need something more advanced, something modern. So, we need western platforms, maybe -- it could be perfect (ph) old jets as a platform, but with new missiles and with new radars and other systems. To be efficient, not to be fighting, not to be scared of Russian technologies.
So, we are pushing them from our border, from our front lines, but we couldn't gain real full air superiority. We need something modern. We need something more advanced.
BERMAN: And, Moonfish, we've been talking about the success you've been having, keeping the Russians from controlling the sky, but I do know it has come at a cost. What has it been like for you to see your fellow pilots, the soldiers and Ukrainian civilians suffering?
MOONFISH: Well, of course, it is heartbreaking to watch all of that. It is really hard to lose close friends. We are comparatively small air force and we know each other by names. And, of course, we know well all our fallen friend. And, yes, it is especially disappointing to see that western countries sometime maybe do not have such a political will to give us all those new fighters so that we can keep our sky clean and stop that brutal bombing.
BERMAN: Moonfish, Juice, I know for you two this is a 24-hour job and I know it hasn't been going on just for a month. I know it's been going on for eight years. I appreciate you being with us this morning. I've never had a discussion quite like this one. It's an honor to have you on. I wish you the best. Stay safe.
MOONFISH: Thank you.
JUICE: Thank you.
BERMAN: A unique balancing act taking place in Dnipro, in eastern Ukraine. Officials must provide basic city services while supporting the country's war effort and burying the dead from both sides. We'll take you there, next.
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[06:47:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN's special live coverage from Brussels. We're here at NATO headquarters. A truly extraordinary and historic NATO summit.
According to Ukrainian officials, a staggering 15,000 Russian troops have been killed since the Ukraine invasion began one month ago. The city of Dnipro in Ukraine has largely been stared from the fighting but officials there are still collecting bodies of Russian soldiers and burying their own -- their own war dead.
CNN's Ivan Watson has more. And a warning, his report contains graphic images.
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IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Crasnapilsi (ph) military cemetery stands on a windswept field on the outskirts of the Ukrainian city of Dnipro. Rows of graves, a reminder of the stark reality Ukraine has lived with for years.
WATSON (on camera): All of these crosses mark the graves of Ukrainian soldiers killed fighting against Russian-backed separatists in the Donbas region since 2014. And these are new graves for Ukrainian soldiers killed since Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24th of this year.
MYKHAILO LYSENKO, DNIPRO DEPUTY MAYOR: A lot of Ukrainian guys.
WATSON (voice over): My guide here is Mykhailo Lysenko, deputy mayor of the city of Dnipro.
LYSENKO: It's a (INAUDIBLE).
WATSON (on camera): Yes.
LYSENKO: A very, very young man. A very, very young man.
WATSON: Born in 1997.
LYSENKO: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So it's very hard for us, for our city and for people from Ukraine.
WATSON (voice over): Nearby, rows of freshly dug graves that are so far empty.
WATSON (on camera): These are preparations in case there are more casualties?
LYSENKO: Yes.
WATSON (voice over): This deadly war presents a bizarre challenge to Ukrainian officials like Kysenko. On the one hand, they have to fortify city defenses and support the armed forces. And, at the same time, provide basic services, like garbage disposal and running city buses.
LYSENKO: If you look on our street, now we have a clean street.
WATSON (on camera): How do you manage a city and fight a war at the same time?
WATSON (voice over): It's complicated, he says, but we have experience because this is the second war we fought against Russia.
The ground war has yet to reach the eastern city of Dnipro and its population of nearly 1 million inhabitants. Sometimes the city looks almost normal. Though there is a strict 8:00 p.m. curfew. And instead of advertisements, billboards defiantly curse at the Russian military. These days, city officials carry guns.
WATSON (on camera): This is because of the war that you have weapons?
LYSENKO: Yes. Yes. It's normal for me. It's normal for me.
WATSON: Why is Ronald Reagan, his portrait, in your office?
[06:50:01]
LYSENKO: Yes, because these guys, he is a very charismatic (ph) guys, and these guys destroyed Soviet Union.
WATSON (voice over): To see another side of the conflict, the deputy mayor brings me here, to one of the city's morgues, to see a parked refrigerator truck.
LYSENKO: And this fridge have 350 dead Russian soldiers. In another morgue, we have 400. I can't open this truck because in this truck, this fridge truck, a lot of dead guys. I don't want to show his face, his legs, his -- any pieces of body.
WATSON: Lysenko says all of the dead Russian soldiers gathered from frontlines across eastern Ukraine are stored here in Dnipro before eventually being shipped to Kyiv.
WATSON (on camera): Why is the Ukrainian government collecting the bodies of Russian soldiers?
LYSENKO: We cannot leave this body on our fields, on our streets, or another place. It's not normal.
WATSON (voice over): As we speak, we hear something in the sky.
LYSENKO: These guys was innocent.
WATSON (on camera): What's that noise?
(Speaking in foreign language).
WATSON: Where do we go?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Over there.
WATSON: So, just now we had a little alert because there was the sound that Mykhailo says was -- sounded like a Russian drone.
WATSON (voice over): War dead and the threat of enemy drones, part of everyday life now in eastern Ukraine.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Dnipro, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Ivan Watson, thank you very, very much. And 3.6 million Ukrainians have now left the country since the Russians invaded only one month ago. We're going to tell you how two Harvard students are trying to help them find homes in countries all over the world.
We'll be right back.
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[06:56:26]
KEILAR: More ran the 3.5 million Ukrainian refugees have left their homes since the start of Russia's invasion. And a website started by two Harvard students is helping connect people leaving the country with hosts around the world who are offering shelter.
Joining us now is the co-founder of the website, Ukraine Take Shelter, Avi Schiffmann.
Avi, this is really phenomenal what you guys are doing. Tell us how you came up with this idea.
AVI SCHIFFMANN, CREATED WEBSITE HELPING UKRAINIAN REFUGEES FIND HOUSING: Sure. So, I was at a protest in San Diego in solidarity with the war in Ukraine. And I felt that I could do something a lot more global here because I have such a big platform online as an internet activist and I know how to make these websites and apps. So, I really wanted to do something really global with technology.
KEILAR: So, we have a photo of a family from Kharkiv, Ukraine, a very hard-hit area of the country, who made it to France earlier this month. They actually connected with hosts using your website and a photo as well of their daughter hiding in a basement while Kharkiv was under attack. This is the difference that is being made. You see the contrast between this family in Ukraine and finding safety.
SCHIFFMANN: Right. That photo is incredible, especially because three days after that family arrived at that home in France, their home in Ukraine was destroyed by Russian bombs. And so, to me, that was really incredible to see that this website is not only able to help people find housing, but, in a way, also saved their lives. And it's an incredible story. And just one of the many, many stories we hear every day.
KEILAR: So, do you know how many people you've been able to help?
SCHIFFMANN: So far we have around 40,000 available houses. But, in total, maybe a few thousand refugees so far. But we're hoping by this time next week, hundreds of thousands more.
KEILAR: So, this works -- tell us about how it works -- but basically you're aggregating a number of different opportunities, whether it's Airbnb or VRBO, or it's a non-profit group or a government organization that has an offering, right?
SCHIFFMANN: Well, so like -- yes, that's where we're moving to. Right now there's all these listings from everything from like a college dorm room to a big spacious barn. We've got all kinds of listings. There's things in pretty much every city in the entire world you can find listings close to. Everywhere from Israel to Australia to America to Poland, Germany, et cetera. There's listings everywhere.
KEILAR: What are you hearing from people who want to help, who want to offer up a room or a house that they may have?
SCHIFFMANN: Yes. So we've got so many people volunteering to post their houses, but we also have people volunteering for things like translating this website into languages, like Polish and Ukrainian. We've got people translating user experience research to make sure that there are no problems with using the website for either the refugee or the host. We've got people offering user interface design. Like, so much stuff. It's incredible the messages I've received.
KEILAR: It really is incredible, Avi. And I thank you so much for joining us.
And just again to mention your website is Ukraine Take Shelter.
So, thank you so much for being with us.
SCHIFFMANN: Thank you.
NEW DAY continues right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KEILAR: Good morning to viewers in the United States and around the world. It is Thursday, March 24th, and I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington.
BERMAN: I'm John Berman in Lviv, in western Ukraine, where there is breaking news.
Ukrainian forces say they have destroyed a large Russian ship in the Russian-occupied Port of Berdyansk. You can see that explosion and a fire raging at the dock side. Plumes of smoke shooting into the air.
[07:00:01]
We're going to have much more on this ahead.
We're also joined by Wolf Blitzer, in Brussels, where there's also breaking news.
Wolf.
