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President Biden to Announce at NATO Summit U.S. Accepting 100,000 Ukrainian Refugees; Ukrainian Forces Claim to have Destroyed Large Russian Ship in Occupied Port of Berdyansk; Former Prime Minister of United Kingdom Gordon Brown Interviewed on How NATO Should Deal with Vladimir Putin. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 24, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: So I think that's important.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: There's a trio, three separated summits going on here in Brussels today, not just NATO, but the E.U. and the G7. And they have got major humanitarian issues that they have to deal with as well.

AMANPOUR: Humanitarian and economic. We just heard the potential of U.S. taking in 100,000, according to CNN reporting. I spoke to Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin, a former CIA analyst, formerly in the field in Afghanistan and Iraq, who said the United States must do more to bear its share of the responsibility for the human suffering. You've seen Poland has taken in nearly 2 million. Poor little Moldova, which is the poorest country in this whole region around Russia, has taken in hundreds of thousands. Romania as well. Europe has completely opened its doors, with special visas for housing, for work, for healthcare and everything, for a period of time.

So it is up to the U.S. to do its part as well, and hopefully the U.S. will start taking -- especially family reunifications. There's so many Ukrainians in the United States. Economically, we're going to see what they put out as more sanctions. Europe has a different calculation than the United States on Russian energy because it is so much more dependent on Russian energy. So part of all of this is going to be how does Europe start weaning itself off Russian fossil fuels? And what can the U.S. and others do to help maybe backfill European energy needs?

BLITZER: Once again, President Biden will announce 100,000 Ukrainian refugees will be allowed to come and settle in the United States.

AMANPOUR: It's a start.

BLITZER: Christiane, as usual thank you. Good start, you're saying. Thanks very much for joining us, Christiane Amanpour, our chief international anchor.

And NEW DAY continues right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers in the United States and around the world. It is Thursday, March 24th. I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington. John Berman is live in Lviv, Ukraine. And we begin with Wolf Blitzer in Brussels, Belgium, where there is breaking news. Wolf?

BLITZER: Brianna, there is major breaking news unfolding here at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium. Thirty NATO leaders, the president of the United States, 29 other NATO leaders, they're attending this truly extraordinary summit. They're trying to deal with this enormous military challenge, humanitarian challenge coming out of Ukraine right now. It's a big, big issue. One month into this war, 3.5 million refugees already, and God knows how many people, men, women, and children have died as a result of Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine. This is something that the world is watching, these NATO leaders are dealing with right now as well.

Other major breaking news emerging right now, the president of the United States plans to announce that the United States once again will settle, will take in up to 100,000 Ukrainian refugees, who may want to come to the United States. This is a major, major step forward. This is something the Ukrainians have been seeking. All these European countries are taking in hundreds of thousands. Poland has already accepted more than 2 million Ukrainian refugees, and now the U.S. is beginning this process of taking in some more. We're watching all of this unfold as well.

These meetings, by the way, here in Brussels, won't just be the NATO allies, but the G7. Those allies will be meeting as well as the European Union leadership, the European Commission, as it's called. They will be meeting three separate rounds of talks here that is going on.

I want to go to John Berman, who is watching all of this unfold. John, where you are in Ukraine, the stakes could not be higher.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: No, indeed, Wolf. And there is breaking news from Ukraine. Ukrainian forces say they have destroyed a large Russian ship in the Russian occupied port of Berdyansk. You can see the explosion there and a fire raging dockside with plumes of smoke shooting into the air.

I'm going to go to CNN's Frederik Pleitgen now, who joins us from Kyiv where Ukrainian forces also say they made gains in recent days. This now the port, Fred, just another example of some of the success they say they have been having.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're absolutely right. And certainly this -- the destruction of that ship in that port, in the port of Berdyansk, for the Ukrainians is really a very big success. It's actually quite interesting because I was actually in that port, I think it was in November of last year, because the Ukrainians were actually thinking of redoing that port and making it bigger for their own navy, but obviously now the Russians have moved into there. And if you look at that ship, it's a landing ship, it is something

that the Russians use to land troops and infrastructure, vehicles also, on beaches, but, of course, that also imports as well. Essentially what that is is a military cargo ship.

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It's not a ship that shoots at other ships. It has weapons for self- defense, but in total it's a ship that transports weapons. And if you look at the big plume of smoke there, it certainly seems as though there was some gear on that ship. It can take tanks, it can take armored vehicles, it can transport munitions, and it does seem as though this is a big blow for the Russian military there in Berdyansk, and really one where the Ukrainians are saying they believe it's a big success. Of course, Berdyansk is an interesting place in itself. It's a port town, one where obviously the Russians are looking to resupply their forces from. And it is on the way to Mariupol, which, of course, has been under siege for such a very long period of time. So it's a big blow to the Russians.

And if I can say one more thing, John, because I think this might also be interesting as well, having been in that port and seeing that port, I think if the Ukrainians manage to destroy that ship, and if it's laying destroyed in that port, it might be difficult for the Russians to bring a lot of other ships in there as well. It looked to us as though that port facility in itself is not one that's very wide or very big. So that could be a logistical problem for the Russians going forward also.

BERMAN: It really does show, Fred, that in these areas of red on the map where we said that Russian troops have been operating, it doesn't necessarily mean they're in full control. It doesn't necessarily mean the Ukrainians can't make some gains there. Our Frederik Pleitgen in Kyiv, our thanks to you.

And I want to go back to Wolf in Brussels now. And Wolf, obviously these Ukrainians very much in the fight on the ground, you can see at the seaport, while there are discussions taking place where you are.

BLITZER: Yes, I think it's fair, John, and I'm sure you'll agree, what the Ukrainian military has been able to do over this first month of the war has been so impressive. And I know from my sources in the U.S. military and intelligence community, they have been surprised at how effective the Ukrainian military has been in dealing with these invading Russian forces. We'll have much more on that coming up.

Right now, I want to bring in the former prime minister of the United Kingdom, Gordon Brown, who is joining us now. He's the author of a brand-new book entitled "Seven Ways to Change the World." Prime Minister, thank you so much for joining us. As you know, the secretary-general of NATO Jens Stoltenberg, says Putin, in his words, Putin made a big mistake with this war. What do you think the international community, specifically the NATO allies, should and can be doing right now to stop the Russians from further killing so many Ukrainians? GORDON BROWN, FORMER U.K. PRIME MINISTER: Well, in addition to the

sanctions, which should be extended beyond the existing energy sanctions and into trade itself, in addition to the travel bans, in addition to humanitarian and the military help, which is now forthcoming for the Ukraine armed forces, I also think that President Putin understands only strength, and any sign of weakness will be exploited. And I think we have got to say to him that he cannot act with impunity, that he is guilty of war crimes, he should be brought before a tribunal, we should make provisions for that to happen. And as President Biden said only a day ago, to be a war criminal is the true situation after the indiscriminate killing of children and adults, innocent people, the bombing of hospitals and schools, again, an international crime, the threat of nuclear blackmail we have seen, the breach of humanitarian corridors, equally, of course, the threat of chemical weapons.

Now, all these things add up to the crime of aggression. They may also be war crimes and crimes against humanity under the international criminal court. And because Putin, and I know him, understands only strength, it has got to be clear to him that his colleagues and him face trial after this war if they don't desist from their crimes that are now being committed in almost every city in Ukraine.

BLITZER: I know, prime minister, that top U.S. officials, including the president of the United States, are very concerned and they fear that Putin and the Russian military could, God forbid, use chemical weapons, or even tactical nuclear weapons as they become even more frustrated with what's going on. What is your assessment?

BROWN: I think anything is possible with Putin as he gets more desperate. I have known him for nearly 20 years, and it is a series of threats that he makes, not all of which he carries out. He's very opportunistic. He seizes on what he sees as a weakness on the part of the opposition.

I think what is happening today with the European Union, with NATO, and with the G7 is a show of strength. And what the Ukraine people have been asking us to do is not only to help them militarily, help, of course, refugees, and it is a great announcement that's being made by President Biden that he'll take 100,000 refugees, that's an important announcement. But I think they want to know that we will support them in making sure that Putin and his cabal understand the gravity of the crimes they're committing, all of which are against international law.

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And I think that to send a message to the circle around Putin that just as at Nuremberg, those people who committed war crimes were found guilty, so too they face the potential wrath of the international community. We have the International Criminal Court which can punish war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity. But the initial crime is the crime of aggression, and I think a tribunal should be formed to try that.

So I want to give all the help we can. Look, what we have seen in the last month is that while buildings are being destroyed and lives are being destroyed, that the unity of the Ukraine people seems indestructible. And equally at the same time, while hearts are being broken every day by the scale of violence inflicted on the Ukraine people, the courage is unbreakable. And that is something that we must build upon and give whatever support we can. The Ukraine president has asked us to look at a tribunal to try President Putin, and I think it's important to send that message, in addition to everything else that is being done at the NATO summit today.

BLITZER: It has been so impressive here in Brussels at this NATO summit, and I'm sure you'll agree, Prime Minister, the unity of these 30 NATO allies, they're working together, and we'll see what emerges from these critically important historic summit talks today. Prime Minister Gordon, former prime minister of the U.K., Gordon Brown, thank you so much for joining us.

BROWN: Thank you, Wolf.

KEILAR: And joining us now --

BLITZER: Brianna, it's pretty dramatic what we're seeing unfold now. We're watching it closely, and we'll, of course, update you and all of our viewers as soon as we get more information.

KEILAR: It certainly is, Wolf. All right, we'll be checking back in with you here shortly.

Let's discuss what we're seeing with CNN senior political correspondent Abby Phillip and CNN senior global affairs analyst Bianna Golodryga. And Abby, we just heard that Zelenskyy, as he's addressing this summit, did not request a no-fly zone, which is something he has repeatedly said he wants, or NATO membership. What do you think of this?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY: If there is one thing Zelenskyy knows, it's his audience. He knows that a no-fly zone and, frankly, NATO membership are both basically off the table. On the NATO membership, it is maybe a for-now, but on the no-fly zone, NATO has been pretty clear they're not going to do that.

His goal here is not to antagonize Europe, but rather to get them to be united and to galvanize around concrete steps that can help him in the military battle, can help his people who are fleeing Ukraine, and also from a sort of global posture perspective. What does NATO and the United States do about non-NATO countries, like Ukraine, who are in the shadow of Russia, and are being threatened by them every day. This conflict is only the first of what could potentially be others in the future, and NATO has to figure out, what do they do about those kinds of situations?

KEILAR: Because Bianna, he seemed to be saying, we're doing our part, Ukraine is doing its part, the Ukrainian military is doing its part for the cause.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SECURITY GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Right. And while he might have acknowledged that Ukraine will not be admitted into NATO now, it's not because they are not equipped to become members. He specifically said never, never doubt ever again that our army does not meet NATO standards. And that was meant to send a message to NATO saying that while now, I get it, you're not going to accept me, all of the reasons that you gave for not accepting us, remember, battling with corruption, and our military standards clearly have met the threshold given what we're seeing take place on a daily basis, able to withstand Russian aggression and even pushing Russian troops back.

KEILAR: I want to talk, Abby, about some of the challenges President Biden has. First off, he has an incredibly busy day. A series of remarks, a news conference, and a big mission. So what are the challenges for him?

PHILLIP: The biggest challenge is, of course, keeping everybody together. Europe is in a really difficult spot. They are not as nimble as the United States in terms of separating themselves economically from Russia. And the United States in this moment, not only has to sort of take its historical place as the leader of sort of the western alliances, but also has to offer some help to European allies to say, OK, we'll back you guys up if you move away from Russian oil, which is a central issue for this meeting of the leaders.

All of the other things that they are doing, when it comes to sanctions especially, become less effective as long as that remains an issue, as long as they remain dependent on Russian oil and gas. And so for Biden, it's about minimizing the divisions between European leaders, but also pushing them, pushing them to go further than they might be comfortable to go.

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KEILAR: It is tough. It is a tough ask.

Bianna, there has been a lot of discussion about what the White House has referred to as the force posture. Let's be clear about what that is. That is troops, the number of troops, where they would go.

What are you expecting out of this?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL ANALYST: Well, listen, we already heard from NATO secretary-general that we are going to see more troops there along the eastern flank, right. And the U.S. as we're hearing from many of our sources in the Pentagon directly, saying that they are not giving out a specific limit to the number of troops, U.S. troops that could be sent there, acknowledging that Putin is playing for the long game here.

Putin may have been wrong in assessing NATO in the Western alliance. We have seen them come together in miraculous way and really revive the alliance. That having been said, it is important to remind viewers and I'm sure this is what Biden and other world NATO members are talking about now, this could go on for a very long time.

So, while we may see this cohesion and partnership now, as Abby was referencing, these are two different issues that the U.S. is facing in terms of its dependence on Russia and where Europe stands on this. Obviously, the influx, the millions of refugees that they are having to deal with on a daily basis and reliance on Russian natural gas and oil, right? And so -- and other commodities.

So, this is an important moment for the world to hear and a difficult moment that this -- while we're seeing the Ukrainians hold the Russians back now, it is arguably a very difficult time for the world assessing what Vladimir Putin's next step will be.

I say this is when he is at his most dangerous moment, because he is not someone who will admit defeat, and this could go on for a very, very long time, and it is important that this alliance, as cohesive as it is now, remains that way in the months and possibly even years to come.

KEILAR: Yeah, it is a very good point you make. His tolerance for suffering on the part of the Ukrainians and also on the Russians is very high. And he's an autocrat, so he's in charge. He has a long runway here.

Bianna and Abby, thank you so much to both of you. I really appreciate the conversation.

KEILAR: So the city of Mariupol remains under constant assault. There is one woman who documented her family's terrifying escape and she says she believed her sprint out of the city was a suicide mission.

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DIANA BERG, ESCAPED MARIUPOLO: All you know is just constant shelling and constant bombing, constant rockets, artillery all over the city.

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KEILAR: We'll speak to her, next.

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BERMAN: Welcome back. I'm John Berman in Lviv, in Western Ukraine.

A Mariupol resident is sharing the video she took during her escape from her hometown. She described the situation as a brutal hell.

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BERG: Me and my husband, we just got in our car and tried to breakthrough and we succeeded in this crazy suicide mission. The city was already locked and surrounded. So we had to breakthrough two lines of Russians, Russian surroundings, tanks and bombing and this -- the shooting. We had to breakthrough and we managed by miracle to do that. It is just a miracle that we are alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: And joining me now is Diana Berg, to talk about your journey out of Mariupol. You left, what, in early March, a couple of weeks ago.

BERG: Yes.

BERMAN: But tell me what it was like there when you left.

BERG: I really felt like I got into the brutal hell. And it was something more than two weeks ago, and it was the feeling of fear, panic maybe because I thought I'm kind of brave woman. And, like, total helplessness because -- and isolation, because you do not have any news from outside this blockade because of this communication outage, because of the blackout, total blackout that Russia made to Mariupol for -- it was only three days when we had no electricity, no heat, no water, no gas and no network at all. No mobile, no internet.

And it felt really -- it was a new feeling I never felt before because I think we're so much used to the -- this simple things like having a telephone, being able to find the news, to say hi to someone, to call, to wash your hands, go to the toilet, cook your stuff. And on top of this, it was nonstop shelling, not only on the left bank, which was almost destroyed by the time, but also on the -- in the city center, and you hear it all the time. And it is dark and cold around.

So -- and you do not know what happens. Actually is the city already surrounded? Because you cannot go Google it.

BERMAN: Yeah, it is helplessness, isolation, you don't know what's happening. That was weeks ago. And now as we have seen from the pictures and spoken to people inside, it is even worse. I know you have a loved one, a relative inside there.

How concerned are you?

BERG: I'm the most concerned I've ever been because the thing is that you cannot get through there. You cannot go there, you cannot send anyone there. There is no crazy people who will go under the bombs and shellings and the route is really risky. Not only in Mariupol, but all the way from Zaporizhzhia to Mariupol is very, very risky with 15 or something, I don't know, many checkpoints of Russians and DPR.

And we don't know what -- if the building is still there, if it is burned, if she's alive, if our friends are alive.

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But thank God, some of our friends managed to escape recently. So we are waiting for them to come. So when I said that was brutal hell, I didn't know what brutal hell was actually.

BERMAN: I want people to hear this, when you first sat down, and I was greeting you, I said, how are you?

BERG: Yeah, I said I'm alive. That's how we -- that's how people from Mariupol and maybe from other cities, like Kharkiv and Kyiv and, of course, Bucha, all the cities that suffered from this brutal aggression, that's how we greet each other when you call. And you hear finally the voice you didn't hear for a week.

The most important is for them to hear that you are alive, first, and then that you are safe. For example, if someone gets out of Mariupol, to some occupied territory, they say I'm alive. But when they get to Ukraine controlled territory, I'm alive and safe. That's kind of your language.

BERMAN: Well, we're glad you're here. We glad you are safe. We wish you the best.

BERG: Thank you so much.

BERMAN: Thank you, Diana.

All right, other news this morning, new Republican attacks on Supreme Court nominee Ketanji Brown Jackson. But a passionate defense of her nomination from one Democratic senator that brought Jackson to tears.

Plus, we're awaiting President Biden, NATO leaders, waiting for them to emerge from the first of many high stakes meetings on the Russian invasion of Ukraine today. We have new details of what has been discussed already. Wolf Blitzer live in Brussels ahead.

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