Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

White House Walks Back Biden's Comment; Solomiya Petrenko is Interviewed about Helping Refugees; January 6th Panel to Reach out to Ginni Thomas; Ski Resort Opens Doors to Displaced Ukrainians. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired March 28, 2022 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Remain in power.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: As you know, and as you've heard us say repeatedly, we do not have a strategy of regime change in Russia or anywhere else for that matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now is Joel Rubin. He's the former deputy assistant secretary of state, and Kimberly Dozier, CNN global affairs analyst and "Time" magazine contributor.

Joel, to you first.

What did you think of what the president said?

JOEL RUBIN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, Brianna, he spoke from the heart, clearly. And I think for anybody who would say that Vladimir Putin staying in power is a good thing I think clearly are misreading the entire environment that we're in right now. And so for the president, this speech was a capstone of an incredibly successful week. Significant diplomacy with our allies. There is unity across the board with the G-7, the European Union, clearly with Ukraine. And it's the kind of success that we can really build on.

So, while he made this statement that got people thinking about that statement, the whole picture is a very successful trip.

KEILAR: Can I ask -- I just want to ask you about something on that because I understand Joe Biden speaking from his heart when he's talking to storm victims or he's empathizing with someone. Can you really talk from the heart when you're discussing whether a world leader should stay or go, considering this was not in his prepared remarks?

RUBIN: Yes, you know, I think, look, after 22 years of Vladimir Putin, we've seen what he brings to the table, which is murder of his political opponents, invading neighboring countries, watching this cataclysmic war towards Ukraine, destroying his own economy, as we just discussed. So, Joe Biden is making an argument that, frankly, this man in power has brought a lot of misery across the board.

So, it is a harsh statement. It clearly has gotten people thinking about it. And they -- and people should be thinking about it. It's not American policy for regime change, obviously. But saying that Putin is somehow qualified to still be in power and that that's the right thing to do, I think that would be an argument that people shouldn't be making.

KEILAR: What do you think?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I don't think it's obvious that regime change is not the U.S. policy when he says something like that. It was indisciplined (ph). It was a speech where the world was watching and Biden handed a gift to Russian propagandists. It's been Putin's line all along that this isn't about Ukrainian sovereignty. That really this is the U.S. versus Russia and the U.S. wants to change the government. Now they had their statement that, for them, proves that. And I don't think this was a moment to ruin all of the other things from the visit that were great in terms of lining up NATO countries together, showing unity and then saying something also that you're not prepared to follow through with.

So, you know, as Putin remains in power year after year from here on out, it becomes a way of undermining Biden's power. You said something that you didn't make happen. It was just sort of wishful thinking. So that's why I was disappointed in it.

RUBIN: Well, you know, I think those are fair points. But Biden is a couple of steps ahead on this whole situation. If we remember about a month ago or so, there was this question about SWIFT banking and whether or not SWIFT would be used to sanction Russia. And there was a question, why are we not doing it? And President Biden said, well, Europe's not there yet. And then, within 24 hours, Europe fell in line and the SWIFT banking system was closed off to Russia. A significant penalty.

So, President Biden is making the argument that, frankly, does get people thinking about, how could Russia become part of the global community again with Vladimir Putin running that country? Can they really get taken off from sanctions? Can they really be trusted? Can Ukraine be next to Russia with Vladimir Putin running it? That doesn't mean the U.S. is going to go in and do regime change, but it does mean that people have to be thinking big picture here while this policy goes forward because we are in it for the long haul. I think that's the key theme from the week is that this is not going to be a one or two-week dynamic. This is months, years potentially of clash.

DOZIER: Well, then, he should be prepared to lay out the strategy. If he is signaling that this is a change in policy from the White House, that they do want regime change, then you've got to be prepared to back that up.

But this was supposed to be -- it was right after the part of his speech where he was messaging and reaching out to the Russian people. So it sounded like he was calling on them to overthrow their leader. And, in that case, I think it sort of -- if you're going to do that while also saying, we don't want to risk giving jets and other things that Ukraine is asking for because that would risk World War III, this seemed to be going way over the threat of transferring some more lethal aid to Ukraine

KEILAR: Let me just ask you real quick, Joel, before we wrap this up.

RUBIN: Yes.

KEILAR: Do you think what Biden said should be the U.S. policy?

RUBIN: No, I don't think regime change should be our policy, and I don't think that the United States has been successful in regime change policies over the last two decades.

[06:35:06]

But to not speak the truth about how this is a dynamic that for the Russian people is a disaster, that for Europe is a disaster, and to lean into the idea that we need to be united, that would be a mistake for the president to not do.

So, he certainly was speaking with an animas that shows that the near neighbors are frightened. He was just in Poland, and all around the region, and they do not want Russia breathing down their neck like they are to Ukraine.

KEILAR: Joel Rubin, Kim Dozier, thank you so much to both of you. Appreciate it.

Millions of refugees have fled Ukraine since the start of the invasion and millions more have been forced out of their homes internally. Our next guest is doing what she can to give some of those displaced Ukrainians basic needs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:40:01]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: More than 3.8 million Ukrainians have fled this country since the Russian invasion began more than one month ago. Millions more have been displaced from their homes but remain here in the country.

Our next guest is a volunteer for the non-profit Hope for Ukraine over the last four years. The organization has pivoted from its original mission of serving underprivileged communities to now providing basic necessities for refugees, such as shelter, food, clothing.

Joining me now is Solomiya Petrenko. She is a volunteer with the organization.

Thank you so much for being with us.

SOLOMIYA PETRENKO, VOLUNTEER, HOPE FOR UKRAINE: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: You stayed behind. You chose to stay in the country, even as millions fled, to help. Who are you helping and what do they need?

PETRENKO: Like, from the very beginning of the war, we have already accepted more than 400 refugees. And we house more than 120 refugees on regular basis. And we have different people. Like many of them fled with nothing. Left just with their small bags, with documents, money and some shirt. Everything what they have. And also we house a lot of children. And many of them are very stressed. So we try to not only house them, not only provide them with clothing, meals three times per day, but also some kind of lessons, quizzes, games and so on just to distract them from that constant stress, which they experience.

BERMAN: You said many of the kids are stressed. I was just going to ask you, how are these people emotionally?

PETRENKO: It is very difficult. Like, this is the biggest problem with their psychological state because many of them are very intimidated. Many of them are shocked. Many of them don't know what to do because when they fled they thought it would be just for some days, maybe for some weeks and they will come back. But now they understand that they have nothing and they don't know how to actually continue their living (ph) here. So, many of them experience some problems with sleep and so on.

BERMAN: They have nothing.

PETRENKO: Yes.

BERMAN: What do they need most?

PETRENKO: Everything. Our organization now provides them with everything. Like all essentials. But our long-term target is to also support them with kind of houses because, you know, one person cannot spend a long time just with one bed.

BERMAN: Right.

You can understand why they're afraid.

PETRENKO: Yes.

BERMAN: And I say this to you because you live -- it was just behind that hill there where the Russian missile strike was on the fuel storage depot.

PETRENKO: Yes.

BERMAN: You live not far away from that depot.

PETRENKO: Yes.

BERMAN: What did it feel like when the missiles hit?

PETRENKO: It was difficult, to be honest, because I heard those heavy explosions and every -- everything was shaking. It was like the first experience. Then I was in panic. I didn't know what to do because like furniture, windows, doors, everything was shaking. And in such moments you feel so hopeless. You don't know what is going on.

BERMAN: I just want to ask you one more time. I know you were listening to the conversation I was that Brianna was having about the statements that President Biden made that Vladimir Putin cannot remain in power.

PETRENKO: Yes. Yes. Yes.

BERMAN: What do you think of that statement?

PETRENKO: I think that he is right. This is the correct actually statement because here everyone not only wish just to change this regime, but also just him to die because, you know, when we -- when we experience -- then you see those refugees, when you see how people are suffering every day, and then you understand how much you have to help them, I think this is the correct -- this is the only one correct decision in such a situation.

BERMAN: Solomiya, I know how hard the work you do. I know how hard you're working and you're putting your heart and soul into it I thank you for what you're doing and I thank you for being with us today.

PETRENKO: Thank you.

BERMAN: Be safe.

PETRENKO: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, just in, we have new CNN reporting on the January 6th investigation after these texts, these shocking texts from the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas are revealed. Stand by for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:48:09]

KEILAR: We do have breaking news this morning.

Sources telling CNN that the January 6th committee will likely reach out to the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas here in the coming weeks. This happens after text messages between Ginni Thomas and then White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows showed her urging President Trump's team to continue the big lie, to keep pressing on try to say that they had won the election.

Joining us now is CNN national security reporter Zachary Cohen and CNN correspondent and co-anchor of CNN's "EARLY START," Laura Jarrett.

OK, Zach, first, just walk us through this. What is the committee thinking of doing here?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Well, Brianna, sources are telling me and my colleague, Jamie Gangel, the committee is likely to reach out to the wife of sitting Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas within the next couple weeks and maybe sooner. Now, it's really important because our sources are telling us that most of the members of the committee, including the chairman and the vice chairman, Representative Bennie Thompson and Congresswoman Liz Cheney are both on board with this.

Now, it remains to be seen how exactly they plan to do that reach out. They could do it quietly or if they do it via subpoena. The committee has previously not ruled out a subpoena for anybody in this investigation.

So, it's another step forward since we've seen those text messages, those 29 text messages from Ginni Thomas to Mark Meadows, President Donald Trump's former chief of staff.

Now, they're pretty explosive. We've covered those extensively. But the committee has some questions.

KEILAR: Yes, and I think there's a big question of, if you're Mark Meadows, or you're another White House aide, are you looking at texts from Clarence Thomas' wife and thinking there's an indication of support from the Supreme Court. That is a big question.

She mentions her best friend in one of the texts. What do we need to know about this one?

COHEN: Well, there's no clear evidence that she is directly referring to her husband in that text message, but she and her husband have both referred to each other as their best friend publicly before.

[06:50:07]

And I think we have a few clips where they've done that in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS, SUPREME COURT: I love to spend time with my wife, who's totally my best friend in the whole world.

My wife is totally my best friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Now, again, CNN has not been able to confirm that Ginni Thomas is referring to her husband in that text message, but it raises more questions about potential overlap between her conservative activism and the Supreme Court, a sitting Supreme Court justice's role on the court, especially in an investigation that could bring cases to the Supreme Court in the future.

KEILAR: Yes, Laura, looking at these texts, why are these so alarming to the committee?

LAURA JARRETT, CNN ANCHOR, "EARLY START": Well, you would think it has to be given her position, as Zach just laid out, as the wife of a sitting Supreme Court justice, a justice who is ruling on election cases related to January 6th and in the days after the election related to cases having to do with just election procedures in general. Cases, I should mention, he did not recuse from despite the fact that his wife is corresponding with the then chief of staff.

And just it shows sort of the deep level of conspiracy theories that she has bought into. She is way down the looking glass on some of these. And whether or not it raises any criminal exposure for her, you know, I think is a -- remains to be seen just because we don't have the full story here. We've seen 29 text messages out of thousands of pages that Mark Meadows has released. But we know that he has held back a fair amount as well. We don't know everybody else that she was texting. There's reporting out there suggesting that she was texting members of Congress. And so the committee is going to have a lot of questions about, what else was she saying, what were people were saying back to her. And there's also this curious gap in time. After November 24th, weeks after the election, things then go dark until about January 10th where she then starts texting Meadows and back and forth exchanges happen again. So the committee is going to have some questions about what happened during those intervening weeks as well, I would imagine.

KEILAR: Yes, they're going to -- going to want to know her best friend is, right?

JARRETT: Yes.

KEILAR: And we should also point out, Laura, I think this is -- this is significant because if you're considering, is there a line of demarcation between Ginni Thomas and Clarence Thomas, there is a datapoint that makes you question that, which is Clarence Thomas, in a key decision, was the lone holdout, right?

JARRETT: He was the lone holdout when it came to those -- those tranches of documents that were supposed to go to the National Archives. And they eventually did go to the National Archives despite the fact that Thomas objected to it.

Now, again, we don't know whether Ginni Thomas had any documents at issue in those, but the fact that he's ruling on those cases and not recused just shows the limits of the recusal issue here.

Remember that it's essentially up to the justices. A lot of people have sort of talked at that and been surprised that there isn't a sort of more -- a strong way to hold the justice's accountable. But the Supreme Court essentially operates on an honor system. There's a federal law requiring recusal when your impartiality would be questioned. You would think this might be one of those instances. But who is supposed to enforce that when the Supreme Court is essentially the highest court that would be able to rule on an issue.

KEILAR: We'll keep watching this.

Zach and Laura, thanks to you both.

JARRETT: Sure.

KEILAR: Berman. BERMAN: So, our CNN teams hearing several explosions through the night near the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.

Plus, we're getting word of Russian forces trying to create a corridor there to cut off supplies. We're live on the ground next.

And Ukraine vowing to investigate a video that appears to show its soldiers shooting Russian prisoners of war in the legs.

Stand by for news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:57:58]

BERMAN: We talk a lot about the 3.8 million Ukrainians who have fled the country, but millions and millions more have been forced from their homes to other locations inside Ukraine.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz report some are finding refuge in a truly remarkable place.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER (voice over): Nestled deep in the Carpathian Mountains, far from the bombs and bullets, lies the idyllic ski resort of Slavsko, with plenty of room for those fleeing violence to find solace in the slopes. Many hotels have opened their doors to displaced families. Some at no cost or discounted rates. Guests Staicy and Ramir found refuge here after Russian forces invaded their hometown of Kharkiv.

RAMIR HOLUBOV, FLED KHARKIV, UKRAINE: (INAUDIBLE) we usually heard, like, shells blowing up, lots of bombardment.

ABDELAZIZ (on camera): And how did you feel when you arrived?

STAICY CHERNILEVSKAIA, FLED KHARKIV, UKRAINE: When you look at these mountains, and (INAUDIBLE) the news (ph), it seems like not real.

HOLUBOV: And you are here. You're safe. You feel kind of guilty because in the beginning I left all of my family there.

ABDELAZIZ (voice over): After a terrifying week, mom and daughter finally squeezed onto a train out of embattled Kyiv. But where to go? Then they remembered a special family trip.

LARVSA KOALVOVA, FLED KYIV, UKRAINE: Yes. We loved this place because our summertime, we provide (ph) here.

ABDELAZIZ (on camera): So you had good memories here?

KOALVOVA: Good memories. We had good memory. We had good memory this -- in this place.

DIANA KOVALYOVA, FLED KYIV, UKRAINE: I feel safe here. But I hope that this will end soon and we will go home because living at home was much better because it's my home.

ABDELAZIZ: This tiny mountain community of Slavsko has taken it 3,400 displaced people, nearly doubling their population. But they say it's not a burden. They want to share this sanctuary.

ABDELAZIZ (voice over): Some have chosen less traditional accommodations. Olesya found peace for her two children in this glamping pod.

[07:00:05]

OLESYA MATIUSHENKO, FLED Kyiv, UKRAINE (through translator): My daughter wakes up every morning, opens the curtains, wipes the dew from the windows.