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Romney: NATO Will "Rethink" Own Security If Trump Re-elected; Washington Post: Russian Troops Talking On Unsecured Lines Amid Invasion; Attacks, Harassment Escalate Against Asian-Americans. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 29, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:31:06]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: In an exclusive interview on "THE SOURCE WITH KASIE HUNT" on CNN+, Sen. Mitt Romney warns that a second Donald Trump presidency in 2024 would cause NATO nations to rethink their own national security. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN+ ANCHOR: Do you think that the former president, Donald Trump, permanently damaged NATO?

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): Well, I think what's happened to NATO is that they have said can we rely on the U.S. and is this "America First" idea, which is the president saying to everybody hey, go off and do your own thing -- that approach is one that frightens other members of NATO. And they wonder are we committed to NATO and to our mutual defense or are we all going to go off on our own?

And so, they wonder will --

HUNT: Are they ever going to get over that do you think?

ROMNEY: Well, it -- they wonder whether we're going to return to the -- if you will, the policies that we've had for the last 70 years or whether we're just going to take the turn that Donald Trump represented.

If he were to come back as the U.S. president I think it would represent a pretty dramatic departure for the world and they would rethink whether they can count on the United States to lead NATO and to lead other nations as they push back against China and against Russia.

HUNT: So you think that the 2024 election will decide this question of permanent damage to NATO?

ROMNEY: Well, I think -- I think -- I think if President Trump were to return as president that the nations of the world would say that they have to really rethink their own national security and the extent to which they want to be aligned with us and instead be aligned with someone else.

And you saw that happen during the time President Trump was there as -- I mean, I've had conversations with leaders of other nations now and members of NATO, and they raise this question. We're -- you know, we're happy to see you committed to our mutual defense but we don't know whether you're just committed short-term or whether this is a long-term and permanent commitment. I think it's long-term and permanent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now is Kasie Hunt, the host of "THE SOURCE WITH KASIE HUNT," which launches today on CNN's brand-new streaming platform CNN+. Congrats, Kasie. It's a very big day for CNN and for you and for this show.

And this is a great interview that you're sharing with us out of the gate here. It really sounds like Sen. Romney thinks that the damage is already done but that more damage can be done.

HUNT: Well, thanks, Brianna, and it's a real honor to be part of such a major launch for CNN. Broadly, it's a really important thing for the entire company. I'm very excited about the show as well.

And the conversation with Mitt Romney I thought was so interesting because he essentially brought up the idea that Trump could win re- election and that would have international consequences unprompted. You know, I was asking him about what had happened in the past and he took it straight to what could happen in the future.

And I think that really tells you a lot -- and especially as we're looking at the new way in which the world is operating in the wake of Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. You've seen the Europeans, quite frankly, stand up and take charge of their own defense in a way that I think surprised even many observers.

The way that Germany raised already their spending on their own defense. The way that the -- that European Union nations responded to President Zelenskyy's emotional pleas. That they were willing to go as far as they did with sanctions.

Now, of course, they've had U.S. leadership and President Biden has been working the phones and trying to get all those people on board.

But I thought it was very interesting that he would say to me and to the world -- that Sen. Romney would say you know what, they're still concerned that this wasn't an aberration. That President Trump's presidency was, in fact, the future direction of the United States of America and that they still have these questions about the U.S. commitment.

And he seemed to be telling me that look, the only way NATO is going to feel secure in U.S. leadership and feel like they can count on us is if it's very clear that President Trump is not coming back. And that does seem to be an open question with him seeming to be the frontrunner for the Republican nomination in 2024. [07:35:04]

KEILAR: Yes, that's really interesting because he's bringing that up unprompted. I mean, it's safe to say that if there is something that keeps Sen. Romney up at night this is one of those things.

So, what is his read on whether Trump will be re-elected? It sounds like he's afraid that will happen.

HUNT: Certainly, that's how I took it. I mean, he's hesitant to talk about it. We talked a little bit about the possibility of a president -- of the presidential race and I asked him directly if he was thinking of running, considering what he says that the stakes are here. He was very insistent that no, in fact, he is not running for president again. But I could tell that this is something that weighs on his mind -- what is the future of his party going to be?

And remember, he was the lone Republican who voted to convict former President Trump in the first impeachment trial, which was about that phone call and the withholding of aid to the Ukrainians -- to basically blackmail them. To blackmail Zelenskyy directly.

And so I think Romney, and there are a handful of others in the Republican Party -- but they view this kind of an issue as the most -- how to put it -- like the most important reason why Donald Trump should not be put back into office. Obviously, January 6 is another piece of that.

But, I mean, Mitt Romney's first floor speech as senator was about the importance of our international alliances and our position on the world stage. And it has been something that he has been consistent about throughout his time in the Senate.

He clearly is very comfortable criticizing the former president and being on that ground, which Romney is not necessarily -- I mean, he's very deliberate about those kinds of choices. He doesn't do this kind of thing off the cuff. So the fact that it was so easy for him to just come out and say that tells you how front of mind it is for him.

KEILAR: Yes. That's what's on his mind. That's what he wants to talk about -- incredibly telling.

Kasie, thank you so much. It's a great interview. And, of course, you can watch Kasie's full interview with Mitt Romney starting today. "THE SOURCE WITH KASIE HUNT" streams live at 4:00 p.m. eastern Monday through Friday on CNN+ and will always be available on-demand -- Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, we haven't been able to hear much from Ukrainian soldiers fighting on the front lines for obvious reasons. They're too busy trying to save their nation, working around the clock, which is why we thought it was really revealing to hear from one soldier, Ivan Havrylko, from his hospital room -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BERMAN (on camera): We haven't had a chance to talk to many people who are on the front lines fighting the Russians. Can you just tell us what it was like?

IVAN HAVRYLKO, UKRAINIAN ARMED FORCES (through translator): We were deployed into the direction of Mariupol. We attacked the convoys of Russian vehicles that we saw in the region of Volnovakha and Mariupol.

For me, as a veteran that took part in the battles of 2014 to '15, it was a bit easier comparing to those who joined recently. But this war differs a lot. This time, we are attacked not just by terrorists but by Russian army tanks. And to be honest, it was difficult.

Among my so-called adventures was a defense of the Krasna Poliana village. My platoon and I were defending it until we ran out of our ammo. Then we had to withdraw and practically part of our unit was encircled, including myself. When we broke through the encirclement, I thought we would get some rest, but we had to fight the enemy in the (INAUDIBLE) village of Donetsk.

Then I got injured.

BERMAN (on camera): How were you injured?

HAVRYLKO (through translator): We sat our fighting position in the ruins of a house. In some houses there were civilians. We tried to evacuate them but they refused to leave their home despite the danger.

Sometimes we almost had to force older people to let us evacuate them to safer areas. They were afraid to leave their homes. They were saying that they are already old and they have nothing to lose. They didn't want to go anywhere. But they were just civilians who had no protection from aviation and artillery.

So we hid inside the house and were shooting at the enemy's infantry. Then, two tanks approached and started destroying buildings on that street. One of the rounds hit our house. Our medic and I ended up under a pile of bricks and roof fragments.

I felt pain in my shoulder but my arms were working and there was no blood. So I decided I just a bruise and continued fighting from other positions.

I was helping other injured to get to the evacuation point. I continued for several hours more or less. I can't tell exact timing because the feeling of time becomes very slow during moments like this. Later, I got confused. I passed out after some time and then I woke up at the evacuation point.

BERMAN (on camera): When you recover will you go back and rejoin the fight?

[07:40:00]

HAVRYLKO (through translator): Yes, undoubtedly. I serve in naval infantry. This is my duty. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Again, a unique perspective that's been hard for us to get what the fight is like right on the front lines.

We have brand-new recordings of Russian troop communications easily accessed because those troops are talking over unsecured devices. The new reporting ahead.

Plus, more on the breaking news. Half of an administrative building in Mykolaiv demolished this morning. At least three people there killed.

Our special live coverage continues right after this.

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[07:45:00]

BERMAN: According to new Washington Post reporting, Russian troops in Ukraine are relying on unsecured communication devices like smartphones and push-to-talk radios. This has allowed amateur radio enthusiasts to tap into conversations that reveal troop frustrations. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: Baikel, I am Exchange, over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE 2: What, Exchange? Who's Exchange?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: Baikal, this is Exchange, over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE 2: What [do you mean] Exchange? I'm Exchange!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining me now is Washington Post intelligence and national security reporter Shane Harris. Shane, how is this happening? What's going on here?

SHANE HARRIS, INTELLIGENCE AND NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, to put it mildly, there seems to be a pretty remarkable breakdown in discipline among these troops who are not exercising the kind of secure practices you would expect for a military that's running an invasion.

And we've seen a number of potential causes for this, one being, frankly, that the Russians didn't expect to be in Ukraine this long and be fighting such a ferocious resistance. They expected to come in and in a matter of days effectively take over the country.

Now they find themselves spread out all over this massive country having to coordinate a sophisticated military strike against a determined adversary, and I don't think they really prepared to be there that long. And the discipline and the kinds of systems that they brought with them are not really what you need for that kind of long- term fight.

BERMAN: Is this just a case of Russian ineptitude or is this something that the Ukrainians are doing to sort of facilitate that ineptitude?

HARRIS: Yes, there's both.

We've had a couple of -- we've had certainly reports from our sources. In one instance -- or multiple instances, actually, Russian troops stealing the cellphones of local people after their own phones were confiscated by their commanders to not give away their location. And then, those local citizens report to officials that their phones were stolen and the Ukrainians then know which phones to monitor for those communications. So that's been pronounced in some areas.

And certainly, we've also seen NATO giving technology to Ukrainian forces that allows them to interfere with Russian signals, which can then force those Russian forces to use more -- to use less secure devices.

So it's really been a mixture of factors on top of that pretty undisciplined behavior by the Russians.

BERMAN: It really is interesting to see because you would think this is the easy stuff in an invasion like this -- easy but so crucial and maybe something that has hampered their advances.

Everyone should go check out Shane's reporting in The Washington Post. I really appreciate you being with us.

HARRIS: Thanks, John.

KEILAR: New insight into the rise of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Nina Khrushcheva, the great-granddaughter of former Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, sat down with CNN's Sara Sidner and says Putin may be using President Biden's recent comments to his advantage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NINA KHRUSHCHEVA, GREAT-GRANDDAUGHTER OF FORMER SOVIET PREMIER NIKITA KHRUSHCHEV: Putin is thinking that it confirms every single thing they have said. The West is out to get him. They destroy Russia. That's what America does. It always wants regime change even if it says it doesn't want regime change.

Biden has been insulting him for quite some time. And so, for Putin's propaganda it actually works quite well because on all T.V. channels -- the Kremlin-connected T.V. channels, it is look what the Americans are doing. They can't even control themselves. They are there because everybody is out to get Russia. We are at war against the world.

SARA SIDNER, CNN+ ANCHOR, "BIG PICTURE WITH SARA SIDNER": So you're saying that these --

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Joining me now is the host of "BIG PICTURE" on CNN+, now online, which launches today with Sara Sidner. Sara, congratulations. It's a big day for you. A big day --

SIDNER: Thank you.

KEILAR: -- for CNN. I cannot wait to see the entirety of this.

But I think it's so fascinating that you interviewed Nina to talk about this. Her great-grandfather actually put down a revolt in Ukraine -- obviously, so many -- so many years ago.

What other insights did she have?

SIDNER: You know, what was interesting is that her great-grandfather was -- basically loved Ukraine and he got in a little trouble because he loved Ukraine so much. Her great-great-grandmother is from Ukraine.

But she talked about Putin and some of his -- the way that he is. She talked about who he is. And I'd never heard this before but she said he had a nickname that he was called when he was in the KGB, and he was called "The Moth." And I said what does that mean?

And she's like he's like a moth. He's in your closet, he's very quiet, it's dark. You go to get your sweater out and there's like a little hole in it -- OK. But then when he's asked to do more, you go to get your sweater out and he has eaten the whole thing and there's no sweater at all.

He's quiet, he's stealthy, he's thoughtful, and he goes after things when he is asked to or when he thinks it is time.

And so, I thought that was a really interesting thought because he's calculated, as we know. But, she said, I think he may have gone too far this time and he doesn't know how to get himself out of it and still save face.

And the big worry here is that he is going to do something like he did in Chechnya, which is scorched earth. Completely trying to destroy a place like Kyiv, which would be unthinkable for her great-grandfather Nikita Khrushchev because it was so -- such an important place for Russian history.

[07:50:02]

But she says Putin is trying to create his own kind of Russia. Not the USSR but his own version so that he can look like, for example, Catherine the Great. So she had some incredible insights on who he is and how he is viewing this.

And she did say that when listening to Biden's comments that he will use that to his advantage. He can tell the public because they've shut down so many ways for people to try and talk about things and learn about information outside of Russia. He is going to use that to his advantage, using it as an I told you so. The West is out to get us. KEILAR: So fascinating, especially -- I think Nina and some others were surprised by how widespread this invasion has been. And so, in a way, it's sort of to her point of eating the entire sweater. You're seeing it isn't just Putin always doing what he did before. This is on an incredible scale that has really I think sideswiped so many people's expectations here.

Sara, can you talk a little bit about your personal experience at the border?

SIDNER: Yes. It was devastating to see just the number of women and children. You know, oftentimes -- and that's me there at the -- at the border with Poland just on the other side. If you look behind me you can see the lights and you can see the people standing in line.

And it was the number of women and children who you would see. At first, it was just in cars. And then, suddenly, they kind of opened the border up and you saw them coming over walking with one bag. Some of them told us that they had to leave their other things behind because it became too heavy and the lines were too long, and they just couldn't carry them.

They're carrying children. They're carrying their dogs. They're carrying one bag, and then their kids have like one little backpack.

And it was frigid -- terribly, terribly cold. We're talking about zero degrees or lower temperatures. And to watch them and wonder where they were going -- each one of them -- when I said where are you going, what is your plan, everyone was resourceful.

They had some semblance of a plan but they never knew how long they could stay somewhere -- if the person was going to come pick them up. Many of them were trying to figure out where their next move was. And here they are with their children with them as they're trying to figure this all out.

And the one last thing that will really stay with me forever is the silence of the children. They were so quiet. And you know kids. Normally, it's hot, it's cold, it's uncomfortable. You're walking a long way.

It was the stunned silence of the children that really, really got to me and bothered me because it shows that they have gone through so much trauma that they weren't even able to be kids at that moment -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, just the uncertainty of the moment. The uncertainty of their futures, too, for their -- for their parents.

Sara, thank you so much. And, of course, we are looking forward to the "BIG PICTURE," which is going to stream each weekday at 9:00 a.m. eastern on CNN+ and it will always be available on-demand.

Just in, some brand-new reporting on a mysterious gap in phone records on January 6 from the White House and former President Trump -- hours- long -- an hours-long gap here. Why this is raising red flags inside the January 6 Committee.

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[07:55:21]

KEILAR: There has been an alarming rise in Asian-American hate crimes in several major cities. Recent high-profile incidents have Asian- American women, in particular, living in fear. What makes them feel so vulnerable?

CNN's Amara Walker is joining us now with more. Amara, what --

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three young Asian-American women living and working in New York City. Three friends who are unwittingly bonded by their encounters with hate.

AMANDA SHI, NEW YORK CITY RESIDENT: Because when you're being attacked like that it feels so lonely. And it feels like if people don't do anything that they're agreeing with it.

WALKER (voice-over): Thirty-two-year-old Amanda Shi says she's been verbally harassed several times by complete strangers since the start of the pandemic. Each time she's relived the trauma of when she was followed by a man yelling racial obscenities at her.

SHI: He like kept following me for like a whole block. And then this man -- he came up next to me. He was like do not worry. I am right here with you. I am going to walk you straight there. And I couldn't thank him in the moment but I'm so grateful he was there.

ANNE KIM, NEW YORK CITY RESIDENT: I was just thinking about like yes, so many times it's happened to me in the past year.

WALKER (voice-over): There is empathy amongst these women because they know what it's like to feel dehumanized. To be targeted as Asian- American women.

SHI: It's the stereotypes around Asian women that make us more likely to be hunted, right?

KIM: Yes.

SHI: We're supposed to be submissive. We're obedient. And there's like hyper-sexualization around us as well.

KIM: She started aggressively walking towards me and she --

WALKER (voice-over): Twenty-five-year-old Anne Kim says last March, she was leaving her friend's apartment in Manhattan's Upper West Side when she was accosted and forced to seek safety in the building's lobby.

KIM: Even having your mask on or other clothing on, I was targeted. A woman came towards me saying you Asian bitch. I'll (bleep) kill you. I'll chop your head off. And she kept saying it as she started approaching me.

WALKER (voice-over): Carolyn Kang, an actress and activist, wrote about her encounters on social media. She says a stranger screamed at her on the subway in 2020, blaming her for the pandemic. Then, three months ago, this happened.

CAROLYN KANG, NEW YORK CITY RESIDENT: I was walking in Brooklyn and suddenly, as I was walking past these two men, one of them punched me. They started screaming at me made-up Asian words.

WALKER (voice-over): All of these attacks were unprovoked, these women say, just like the others that made headlines in the past year. A 67-year-old Asian woman in Yonkers, New York beaten and punched more than 125 times. The suspect allegedly called her an Asian bitch.

Michelle Go pushed to her death in front of an oncoming subway train in Times Square by a man who is reportedly mentally ill. Six Asian- American women killed in a spa shooting spree in Atlanta.

Not all have been deemed hate crimes but with major cities like New York and San Francisco reporting a steep rise in anti-Asian hate crimes, Asian-Americans are living in fear -- especially, Asian- American women.

According to Stop AAPI Hate, a coalition that tracks incidents against Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders, nearly two-thirds of the reports came from women between March 2020 to December 2021.

SUNG YEON CHOIMORROW, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ASIAN PACIFIC WOMEN'S FORUM: Over 74 percent of the respondents said that they had experienced some kind of discrimination or harassment in the last 12 months.

WALKER (voice-over): Even a member of Congress, Grace Meng, isn't immune to this reality.

REP. GRACE MENG (D-NY): I try not to go anywhere alone.

WALKER (on camera): Why?

MENG: I'm scared that something might happen to me. And we are equally, if not more afraid of things that might happen to the most vulnerable in our community -- our grandmothers and our mothers. These are the folks that have come to this country and sacrificed so much and now they're being attacked and killed.

WALKER (voice-over): In the meantime, Carolyn avoids the subway when she can.

KANG: I'm making sure that my back is against the subway wall or standing right next to a pillar so that no one can come and push me into the tracks.

KIM: They were luckily there to open the door for me but --

WALKER (voice-over): And while Anne remains hypervigilant -- KIM: I have asked strangers to walk me home.

WALKER (voice-over): -- Amanda is dreading the warmer weather.

SHI: Everyone's like spring is here and I'm -- part of me is happy but part of me is so anxious to be shedding these layers and letting my features show.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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