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New Day

10 Killed in Racist Massacre at Grocery Store in Buffalo; Police: Buffalo Suspect Was in Town a Day Before Rampage; Racist Massacre Rattles Nation as Domestic Terror Threat Rises; Rep. Liz Cheney Criticizes GOP House Leadership for Enabling White Nationalism and White Supremacy. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 16, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: But it's symbolic of a larger break between Russia and the west.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's hugely symbolic. It really just raises so many questions. Also, when we think about what people on the ground think and how they're reacting to this, have they agreed something like that. Jim Sciutto, thank you for joining us this morning.

SCIUTTO: Thanks.

COLLINS: And NEW DAY continues right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to on our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Monday, May 16. I'm John Berman. Brianna is off, but chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins here with me this morning.

And we are covering the terror attack in America on Americans. Ten Americans killed. Their ages range from 32 to 86. Six of the victims were older than 60. The evidence clearly suggest they were murdered simply because they were black. Police say the 18-year-old white suspect traveled three hours from a different county to carry out the massacre. There are new details this morning. The police commissioner says that the shooter had plans to kill even more African Americans after leaving the supermarket. Also word of a previous incident when he was on the radar of law enforcement, making a chilling comment last spring. Tomorrow President Biden will visit Buffalo to meet with the victims' families.

COLLINS: We're also learning new details this morning about a deadly shooting in southern California. Four people were having lunch inside a church after services when a gunman entered and opened fire, killing one of them and critically wounding four others. The Taiwanese congregation was there at the time, and authorities say that they are still investigating motive and whether they were targeted. The suspect now in custody after being stopped by members of the congregation who overpowered him by hogtying him.

BERMAN: We're going to begin this hour by talking about the investigation in Buffalo. Joining me now is Erie County District Attorney John Flynn. Thank you so much for being with us. We heard a short time ago from the police commissioner in Buffalo saying there is new evidence that this shooter had some plans, allegedly, to kill even more people after the supermarket. What can you tell us about that?

JOHN FLYNN, ERIE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, I can tell you, John, that's part of our overall investigation here, not only where he was beforehand, what he was doing beforehand, but also what he planned to do afterwards. So that is part of the all-encompassing investigation here that we're looking into.

BERMAN: Plans to do afterwards. From what you have seen so far, was it more of this racist assault on the people of Buffalo, leaving to go to a different location to kill more black people?

FLYNN: It appears that way. Again, we need to drill down further. Kind of right now we're -- I'm kind of in grand jury mode right now, even though officially we're probably not going to get to the grand jury process until Thursday when the felony hearing is over. But like I said, I'm kind of in grand jury mode already, so when the grand jury investigation part of this takes place, we are going to look into everything that this young man was doing and thinking.

BERMAN: What other evidence exists right now in addition to this 180- page manifesto?

FLYNN: I can't specifically talk about exact pieces of evidence, but I can kind of in a generalized sense tell you that, obviously, he had a home. He lived with his parents, all right. So, that entire place that he lived there in Broome County, which you said, some three-and- a-half hours away, we're drilling down there.

He drove here in a car. Obviously, we're looking at the car. There was evidence left at the crime scene, so everything that was left and that he had at the crime scene we're analyzing all that. In addition, you mentioned the manifesto. Everything he's done on social media, we're drilling down on that.

So this is obviously an intense investigation. This is an investigation where a lot of things seem clear cut to the general public. John, you have 10 bodies. Obviously, that looks clear cut to the public. But as you know, when you're talking about an investigation of this nature, there's much more that goes into it and there's much more out there.

BERMAN: I know, when you say you have 10 bodies, sorry, I just got an awful chill there. It's a reminder, there's 10 bodies, there's 10 grieving families, an entire community. And I know you're in the middle of grieving there. Any other people? I know you said before, no other people apparently involved, but in terms of any other people you are getting evidence from?

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FLYNN: Well, everyone that he was associated with before he drove here to Buffalo, everyone that is alluded to or is, perhaps, we can know who he was talking to before he left and came here to Buffalo, we're going to talk to all them. When you have a manifesto that's over 180 pages and you read through that, that takes you down a lot of rabbit holes. And so, everything that's in there that, perhaps, takes us to a different avenue, we're going to go down that road.

So it's not going to take months and months here. Quite frankly, I don't have months and months. Once a felony hearing happens on Thursday, I only have 45 days to get this case indicted. So this is going to move rather quickly. But again, we've got to make sure our i's are dotted and t's are crossed before we indict him.

BERMAN: Now, I know this other contact point with law enforcement did not happen in your county. This is in Broome County where there were concerns about some writings or statements that the suspect had made. But broadly speaking, just I want you to comment on the idea that there was this touchpoint before. How frustrating is it for you in law enforcement to know that there had been this interaction a year ago?

FLYNN: Well, I can't say that I'm frustrated, John, because I'm not privy to exactly what went down and how it happened, all right? So again, if maybe only one person knew about it and didn't tell a supervisor, something like that, well, yes, then I'm mad at that one person. But I don't know that. I don't know how far it went. I don't know how many people were involved in it. I plan on trying to find that out because, again, I don't know if any of that information is going to go toward his intent to what he did here.

Obviously, they're charge they have levied against him right now, murder in the first degree, there's an intent element to that. So anything he did or said in the past that would help my case out here on intent, I obviously want to know about. But no, I'm not frustrated yet, but obviously it's a red flag and concerning.

BERMAN: The writings themselves, obviously, from what we've seen of them, racist, talks about this replacement theory, which is absurd. When you look at something like this, how concerned are you about the threat that ideas like this pose and whether there could be other instances of this going forward?

FLYNN: Well, it's disturbing. It's disturbing that, obviously, there is so much information out there now on the media -- in social media and out there on the Internet. Young people -- through years when the world was shut down and you're sitting at home in front of your computer can absorb this hatred and absorb this information. But obviously, we have to remain vigilant, and we have to be on guard for these types of situations. Are you going to prevent them, all of them? We can't be naive. Probably not. But you can't give up. Do what we can do to help out when these things happen and help try to prevent them if you can. But yes, it's very disturbing.

BERMAN: And finally, I have got to let you go, but any information -- I understand the gun was purchased legally, but any other aspects of the weaponry involved, any sense that it was not legal in the way it was acquired?

FLYNN: Well, we're looking at whether or not it was modified at all. So any time you have a legal rifle or an assault rifle, for that matter, here in New York state, if you add modifications to it, you could then make it illegal. If you have additional magazines that you attach to a rifle, that, perhaps, can make it illegal as well. So, we're looking at all that, John.

BERMAN: Erie County District Attorney John Flynn, I know you're working hard and I know you're also grieving at the same time along with your community. We appreciate you being with us this morning.

FLYNN: Thank you, sir.

COLLINS: Moments ago, Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney responded to the rampage in Buffalo, tweeting, quote, "The House GOP leadership has enabled white nationalism, white supremacy, and anti-Semitism. History has taught us that what begins with words ends in far worse. GOP leaders must renounce and reject those views and those who hold them."

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Joining us is Kathleen Belew, an assistant professor of history at the University of Chicago and the author of "Bring the War Home, the White Power Movement and Paramilitary America." Thank you so much for joining us this morning, Professor. And I just want to -- can you start by describing what this theory is and how we see it invoked here by the shooter? Because it's not the first time it's inspired violence, and we've seen this before emerging as this disturbing and grim pattern.

KATHLEEN BELEW, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: Yes. So, great replacement theory is a new name for an old set of fears. And the distinctive thing about this is not the enemies that it picks up on, although it victimizes people of color, immigrants, Latinx communities, and many others, Jewish communities. The distinctive thing in this theory is what it seeks to protect, which is the idea of a white population under threat and an intense focus on white reproduction.

So by that I mean that a host of social issues that we may think of as sort of capital C Conservative, are to people in the white power movement and on the militant right, all about threats to the white birth rate. So, immigration is a problem to these folks because they fear being overrun by hyper-fertile immigrants. Abortion is a problem because white women will have less children, will be out of the home, will not be reproducing the white population. We can go down the list.

In this case, in Buffalo, the shooter -- the document that is circulating as the shooter's motive document seems to be largely transposed from the shooting of Islamic immigrants in Christchurch, New Zealand, a few years ago. And there we see the replacement theory targeting immigration.

COLLINS: So basically, he plagiarized the manifesto of that shooter?

BELEW: Yes, large sections of it. The other question we have to ask about motive documents like this

manifesto is how much of them are genuine, how much reflect genuine belief, how much are simply a vehicle for sharing and circulating tactical and radicalizing information. For this reason, I think it's great if people can avoid posting and sharing that document. It has a lot in it about sort of tactical readiness and target selection and things like this. And the ideological trappings are also there, sort of just to move it through radical spaces online.

COLLINS: It seems and reads almost as if this is an instructional kind of screed. And I kind of wonder, you talk about how it's not new. This is something that's been around. And I wonder what parallels you see not just in New Zealand and, of course, what happened there, but also the Tree of Life shooting in Pittsburgh, the Walmart shooting in El Paso, Charleston, how all of these gunmen seem to share this same, similar ideology and how it's really kind of entered the mainstream at times.

BELEW: All of these gunmen, in El Paso, in Charleston, in the Tree of Life shooting, we can add more to this list, Oslo and Christchurch, this is a transnational thing, too, and now in Buffalo. Although the targeted populations seem different, we might usually, we read stories about Latinos being killed in El Paso or Jewish worshippers being killed in Pittsburgh, for instance, all the perpetrators come from the same ideology, which is that -- this is from the white power movement. This is a movement that has brought together extremists on the militant right for decades in this country if not generations. This goes all the way back to the late 1970s.

And this movement has been at war with the express goal of fomenting race war, of targeted attacks of mass violence, and on attacks on our political system since 1983. This is the same movement that brought us the Oklahoma City bombing. And there has never been a moment when we as a nation have adequately confronted this threat.

COLLINS: And that raises so many questions about how do you as a nation confront it going forward? Kathleen, thank you for joining us this morning and to share your expertise on this.

BELEW: Thank you.

BERMAN: We are remembering the victims of the mass shooting there in Buffalo. They are in our minds and in our hearts this morning. Aaron Salter, a former Buffalo police lieutenant, was working as a security guard at the store and fired multiple shots at the suspect, but the gun he was wearing tactical gear that protected him. Officials in Buffalo say Salter's efforts were heroic, though, and saved lives.

And 86-year-old Ruth Whitfield was on her way home from visiting her husband in a nursing home and stopped at the store to get something to eat. She was described as a rock for her family. Her son tells "The Washington Post" his mother was a blessing for all those who knew her. Her son is the former Buffalo fire commissioner.

COLLINS: And 77 Pearl Young spent the final years of her life doing what she loved, volunteering and substitute teaching in the Buffalo School District.

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She leaves behind two sons and a daughter, and her kids say that she's, quote, "Up in heaven dancing to our heavenly father."

Sixty-eight-year-old Heyward Patterson was shot and killed as he sat in his truck in the parking lot. Patterson was a deacon at the local church and he's been remembered by those who knew him as a very happy man with a, quote, "Big heart who took pride in helping people." Deacon Patterson leaves behind his wife and his daughter.

BERMAN: We're thinking about all of them and all the victims of that shooting. We're going to speak to a woman who knew three of the victims. One of them her friend for decades.

Plus just in, CNN's Christiane Amanpour live in Afghanistan where she just interviewed one of the FBI's most wanted men in the world. Stand by, we'll take you there.

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COLLINS: New York Governor Kathy Hochul has ordered flags on state buildings flown at half-staff in tribute to the 10 people killed in the Buffalo mass shooting on Saturday. One of those victims is Katherine Massey who was 72-years-old and simply shopping for groceries.

She was known by those around her as Kat, she was deeply involved in her community. A year ago she even wrote a letter to the editor of the Buffalo news urging federal action to prevent needless shooting deaths. Of course, not knowing what would happen to her.

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Joining us now is Betty Jean Grant, a former Erie County legislator who knew Katherine Massey for 20 years. Thank you so much for joining us this morning. What is, obviously, such a difficult time. And I just wonder how her family's doing in the wake of this awful news?

BETTY JEAN GRANT, FRIEND OF BUFFALO SHOOTING VICTIM KATHERINE 'KAT' MASSEY: Thank you for inviting me. I spent moments yesterday with the family and her sister Barbara, and her brother. Katherine came from a very close-knit family, in fact, her brother and sister live in the house next to her, and the house that she lived in was the house she was born and raised in.

And so, you know, we're grieving here in Buffalo, we're grieving, we're absolutely devastated. The family, you know, they are -- they are in shock as all of Buffalo and as all of the whole world.

And so, well we're here in Buffalo, we're honoring those who made a difference, and Kat Massey, we called her Kat, you know, nobody called her -- called her Katherine. Kat Massey was loved in this community, she worked so hard to ensure that everyone has equal opportunity. She had a good life. She was very much devoted to the issue of gentrification. As you know, Buffalo was the city spent so many years in the state of decline with no resources coming in. All of a sudden we have resource coming in, we have people moving back to Buffalo.

And Kat Massey wanted to be sure that those of us who stayed in Buffalo get an opportunity to remain in homeownership. So her biggest issues were homeownership, gentrification, happened in a positive way in making sure that our streets were safe.

BERMAN: And obviously, we're very sorry for your loss. And I understand you were friends with Kat for decades, you know, for more than 20 years.

GRANT: Yes, sir, yes. I met Kat in 1999/2000 when I was working with the council member, the late Beverly A. Gray, a council member (inaudible) city of Buffalo. And Kat was a community activist.

And she would come to Beverly Gray's offices and ask about certain problems or issues, she was a Black Club (ph) leader, and she wanted to know how she could make Buffalo better. And so, based on that, you know, we developed a friendship. And then when I formed the group We Are Women Warriors, Kat Massey was one of our first members.

And we worked together to form, educate, and empower families in Buffalo. And we formed the We Are Women Warriors group behind the Trayvon Martin murder because many women locals, especially single parents -- single female parents were afraid that their sons might wind up like Trayvon Martin.

And so, Kat Massey and I worked together to inform, educate, and I know we're going to miss her in Buffalo. Because she made a difference, she continued to make a difference all her whole life. She was writing (inaudible) to the Buffalo News, she wrote for two (inaudible) newspapers, the Buffalo Criterion and also the Challenger.

She was just a go-getter, she was very firm, opinionated, yes she was. You know, when she thought she -- thought she was right, you know, you couldn't sway her from that. But she was willing to listen to make sure that even though she knew she was right that your voice was heard as well.

COLLINS: And what do you think drove her to be so involved? You said -- you talked to us -- you wanted to make sure people were able to retain homeownership in light of gentrification. She wrote this op-ed calling for federal action. What drove her to be so involved in her community?

GRANT: Well, for the gun action what drove her was the amount of killings in Buffalo. You know, in 1994 we had 94 deaths in Buffalo, and then it declined for a while. And then I think mid-2015/2016, it kind of escalated again.

And we heard about this (inaudible) Tiahrt Amendment that was put in place to give gun dealership more authority to be more private, and prevent people from getting information after 48 hours. Kat Massey believed the same as I, the Tiahrt Amendment should be repealed at Congress.

And so, the letter she wrote to Buffalo News was just an issue that really do all we can here in Buffalo, New York to decrease the amount of guns coming in. So when you have an amendment that allows gun dealers to sell assault rifles for no reason but to shoot someone because you can't hunt with an assault rifle, then it needs to be repealed. And so, Kat Massey because Buffalo has a higher estimation of homicides this year, last year, I say, you know, during the pandemic, then we had for the last several years.

And so, Kat was making sure that we in Buffalo were (inaudible) congressperson, Congressman Brian Higgins, and others to assure to address issue that we cannot protect our community until we get help from the federal government by not allowing these murderous assault rifles to be placed here in buffalo.

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The shooter of the Tops market Massacre had a AR-15. You can't hunt rabbits or squirrels or deer with a AR-15 and an assault rifle, why are they being sold?

COLLINS: Betty Jean Grant, we're very sorry for your loss but thank you for joining us this morning to tell us about Kat and what she was like.

GRANT: Thank you, and I want the nation to pray for Buffalo. But you know what, we're strong, we're Buffalo strong, and we will come back stronger than ever. But we never forget those who sacrificed their life. We never forget those (inaudible) who made the ultimate sacrifice. And thank you for having me this morning.

COLLINS: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Thanks for being here. You know, you can see in Betty's face -- the smile on her face whenever she mentions Kat's name and when she said that Kat Massey was opinionated that smile got even better.

COLLINS: She's opinionated but she wanted other people's opinions to be heard. Even though she said she knew she was right.

BERMAN: So she lives on in some ways in friends' smiles.

COLLINS: We've also just learned about the suspect in this shooting and that he was in town a day before this rampage was carried out. We'll tell you more about how police tracked him.

BERMAN: And we do have a CNN exclusive. Christiane Amanpour sits down with one of the FBI's most wanted men in the world. The deputy leader of the Taliban, we're going to live to Afghanistan next.

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