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New Day

Haqqani Talks to Amanpour; Sussmann Trial Begins; Bezos Blasts Biden. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 16, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:21]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We have a brand-new CNN exclusive.

A short time ago, our Christiane Amanpour sat down with Sirajuddin Haqqani, the deputy leader of the Taliban, and one of most powerful and controversial men in Afghanistan.

Joining us now is CNN chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, great to have you with us.

Just give us the context of exactly who this person is and how remarkable it was that you were sitting with him just a short time ago.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Indeed, John, it was remarkable in every sense of the word. First and foremost, he is, in terms of the Taliban movement, the deputy Taliban leader, the heir successor to the supreme leader who nobody's ever seen, Mullah Akhundzada (ph), who sits in Kandahar, one of the very, very conservative leaders of the movement. So, this man, Mr. Haqqani, is the heir.

He is also in terms of the interim, or acting government that they say they are, the interior minister. So he is the most powerful member, frankly, of the current government and, indeed, in the Taliban movement.

And it was extraordinary to get this interview because, a, he is absolutely never sat with a western organization. He has never shown his face publicly in any interview. And he certainly has never sat with a woman, such as myself. So, it was because they said they really did want to send a message to the United States.

Now, we have heard this before. They have said all sorts of things that they hope will get the international community to, a, eventually recognize them to be -- lift the sanctions, but also, and we're hearing this from western officials, they actually do want to be taken seriously amongst their own people as a legitimate government. This, you know, in the eight months since they took over. You remember the chaotic scenes of the fall of Kabul back in August of

2021. They, of course, call it not the fall but, in their view, the liberation. So, this was the context.

In addition, the United States does have a bounty on his head because, in the words of a key top western official, and I put this to Mr. Haqqani today, I said, they tell us that you, this guy, have lots of American blood on your hand. That you are, in terms of the Taliban movement, allied and associated with the most extreme factions and militant groups in the Taliban. And yet you have put women back to work first in your ministry and you have shown that you are fighting terrorism, and that this is not just the view of this one official, he told me, but the view of all the envoys who deal with Haqqani. So that's the paradox. That, today, is the paradox that we were uncovering in our interview.

COLLINS: And, Christiane, you mention that bounty. It's to the tune of $10 million that they want to talk to him. And, you know, he's been designated as this specially designated global terrorist. And so, a, how long did you sit down with him for? And what was it like to sit there with him? As you noted, you're -- the first time a woman has sat down with him in this capacity, a woman reporter, especially a western female reporter. What was it like?

AMANPOUR: Well, look, you know, I mean, I just ignore the woman thing. I just figure if they're going to talk to us, they're going to talk to us and let's get this done.

I do think, though, it is a bit of a message when it's somebody like that. And I think -- and I'll tell you in a moment -- he said, a lot of the things that the west wants to hear about their respect of women's right.

In terms of the context of who he is, yes, he has been accused of launching an attack on then president -- an attempt on then President Hamid Karzai's life, of being responsible for a group attack that lasted about a day into the United States compound, which is no longer the United States embassy compound here. I mean they own it, technically, but it's not occupied by the U.S. This several years ago. And of other terrorist acts, which I put to him. I said, look, they call you a terrorist. He said, look, they may call me what they want. This was a war we fought very, very, very, you know, fiercely. And he said, and the Americans fought very fiercely against us as well. Now, we've gone into some kind of negotiation. We want to have a different relationship.

Now, it has to be said that they have been saying this for a long time. The key issue, one of the key issues for the world and for the United States, for human rights organizations, for all those nations that have put sanctions on, is the barometer of how they treat their women. So, he again said that they are committed to women's education from primary all the way to university. Right now, secondary education has been suspended.

Under the repeated questioning from me, he says it's going to happen we just have to put in conditions.

[08:35:02]

And I said, well, you know, back when you first came to town back in the '90s you said the same and it never happened under your watch. He said, no, no, no, no, we must have women back to school. It is not against Islam. We must have women at work. So that's the things that they're saying right now.

BERMAN: It really does seem as if he wanted to get a message out to the western world --

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BERMAN: Which is why he had this interview with you, this remarkable moment.

Christiane, I'm sure we're going to see much more of it in the hours ahead.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BERMAN: Thank you so much for your work there. And thank you for joining us this morning.

New details on the deadly shooting at a church in southern California. The churchgoers there hog tying the suspect with an extension cord until the police arrived.

COLLINS: Plus, in Buffalo, police this morning say that the suspected gunman had plans to continue his rampage after he conducted that massacre inside the grocery store. We'll tell you what those plans were, next.

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[08:40:02]

COLLINS: It's time now for the five things that you need to know for your new day.

Ten Americans were gunned down at a supermarket in what officials say was a racist attack. Police say the white 18-year-old suspect traveled three hours from another county to pull off his carefully planned massacre and that he was in town the day before the shooting.

BERMAN: A day after the Buffalo attack, one person was killed and five injured, four critically, in a shooting at a church at Laguna Woods, California. Police say parishioners detained the suspect, hog-tying his legs and confiscating two guns from him.

COLLINS: Sweden is following Finland's lead in announcing that it will work toward an application for membership in the military alliance known as NATO. The Swedish prime minister calling the decision, quote, best for the Swedish people's security after hundreds of years of neutrality. BERMAN: Russian forces have likely suffered losses of one-third of

their combat force. That's according to the United Kingdom's defense ministry. The report also note that Russia's offense in the Donbas has lost momentum and failed to achieve substantial territorial gains.

COLLINS: And tomorrow is primary day in Idaho, Kentucky, North Carolina, Oregon and Pennsylvania. All eyes are on the commonwealth's high stakes Senate races. And John Fetterman, the favorite to win on the Democratic side, has announced that he is recovering after a stroke.

BERMAN: And these are the "5 Things to Know for Your New Day." More on these stories all day on CNN and cnn.com. And don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning. Go to cnn.com/5things.

COLLINS: Also this morning, jury selection has just started in the trial of the former Clinton campaign lawyer, Michael Sussmann, who is being charged with lying to the FBI by Special Counsel John Durham, who has spent the last three years reviewing whether or not former President Trump's campaign was unfairly investigated.

CNN's Paula Reid is live outside the courthouse in Washington with more.

Paula, what do we know so far this morning?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Kaitlan.

As jury selection gets underway here at federal court this morning, the stakes are especially high for John Durham. He has been investigating the origins in the Trump Russia probe for years. But this is the first case that he's actually brought to trial. And it really serves as a test of whether his investigation has actually uncovered any wrongdoing.

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REID (voice over): Today Michael Sussmann, a former lawyer for Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign, is set to go on trial in federal court in Washington for a single charge of lying to the FBI.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Sussmann, did you lie to the FBI?

REID: The case is part of Special Counsel John Durham's three-rear investigation into the origins of the FBI's Trump/Russia probe. The case revolves around political opposition research.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's part of what happens in a campaign where you get information that may or may not be useful and you try to make sure anything you put out into the public arena is accurate.

REID: Durham's team trying to portray Sussmann's actions as part of a dirty smear campaign to use oppo research to prompt an FBI investigation and then use the press coverage against Trump. Special Counsel Robert Mueller spent two years investigating and produced a report detailing the Trump campaign's many ties to Russia. Though multiple Trump associates were convicted of lying and other crimes, on the question of collusion with Russia --

ROBERT MUELLER, SPECIAL COUNSEL: We focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member on the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. And it was not.

REID: Former Attorney General Bill Barr appointed Durham in 2019 to examine what he said was an unfair investigation.

BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: He's a by the book kind of guy. He's thorough and fair. And I'm confident he's going to get to the bottom of things.

REID: Trump has long railed against the FBI's Russia probe.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: It's a total witch hunt. I've been saying it for a long time.

REID: And praised Durham.

TRUMP: One of the most important investigations in the history of our country.

REID: Durham has not alleged that Clinton or her campaign broke any laws. In the trial starting today, Sussmann, a well-known lawyer for Democrats and the Clinton campaign, is charged with lying to FBI General Counsel James Baker in September 2016 when he shared information about a possible computer server connection between the Trump Organization and Russia-based Alfa Bank. Durham alleges that Sussmann told Baker he wasn't working on behalf of any client when, in fact, he was representing the Clinton campaign, as well as a tech client.

The FBI looked into the tip and couldn't find any illegal cyber links, but stories about the connections appeared in some media outlets. Prosecutors intend to use Clinton campaign press statements and tweets, as well as testimony from her campaign manager, to support their case.

ROBBY MOOK, CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: It has come out that the FBI was actively investigating whether there was a direct cyber link between Donald Trump and a bank owned by Russian oligarch.

[08:45:08]

REID: Prosecutors are also expected to call Baker, but over the years the FBI's former top lawyer has given veering accounts of what happened and publicly defended the origins of the FBI's Russia probe.

JAMES BAKER, FORMER FBI GENERAL COUNSEL: We certainly weren't trying to collect political dirt or political, you know, intelligence on any campaign.

REID: Prosecutors will also focus on the role of Fusion GPS, an opposition research firm hired by the Clinton campaign. It's the same firm that hired British spy Christopher Steele to produce the infamous Steele dossier, which contained unverified and salacious allegations about Trump but which the FBI used, in part, to obtain an eavesdropping warrant against a former Trump campaign adviser.

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REID: As part of his defense, Sussmann will call Justice Department officials who are expected to downplay his ties to Democrats and support the argument that this was still a tip worth investigating. Now, if jury selection is completed today, opening arguments could begin tomorrow.

Kaitlan.

COLLINS: I could think of a lot of former White House staffers who will be watching this closely.

Paula Reid, thank you.

BERMAN: And Bezos versus Biden. Who is right on the best way to tackle inflation? We have a CNN fact-check ahead.

BERMAN: And country legend Naomi Judd remembered in songs and tears at a public memorial in Nashville.

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[08:51:00]

BERMAN: Inflation now stands at 8.3 percent, down a tick, but still very high. So, President Biden tweeted, you want to bring down inflation, let's make sure the wealthiest corporations pay their fair share. Amazon founder Jeff Bezos did not appear to like that. He tweeted back, quote, the newly created disinformation board should review this tweet or maybe they need to form a new, no sequitur board instead. Raising corporate taxes is fine to discuss. Taming inflation is critical to discuss. Mushing them together is just misdirection.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN business correspondent Rahel Solomon.

Rahel, first of all, great to have you on NEW DAY and see you in person.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

BERMAN: I was just surprised to see Jeff Bezos get so, like, worked up about this.

SOLOMON: It does seem like he's weighing in on Twitter a lot more. But, yes, it's like the battle of the B's. You have one of the world's richest men essentially taking on arguably the most powerful man.

Here's what we know. The reality is that there's not a ton that Biden can do in the short term to lower inflation. The White House, by the way, responding with a statement to CNN saying, look, it doesn't require a huge leap to figure out why one of the wealthiest individuals on earth opposes an economic agenda for the middle class that cuts some of the biggest costs that families fight -- face, fights inflation for the long haul and adds to the historic deficit production that the president is achieving by asking the richest taxpayers and corporations to pay their fair share.

So, here's what we know. Lowering the trade deficit, to Biden's point, does tend to lower inflation. But Bezos made a point that some of the stimulus measures that were enacted by Congress added to the inflation, made inflation worse. Perhaps the reason why we here in the U.S. are experiencing more inflation than some of our western counterparts. So, both of those things are true.

Here's the ugly truth, though. The idea of fighting inflation is largely the Fed's job, so there's not a ton that Biden can do and certainly not in the short term that would make a significant impact.

COLLINS: Well, and I think part of the reason the White House responded in the way that they did is he invoked Manchin. He said that Manchin saved the White House from themselves by not allowing them to pass what they wanted to pass.

SOLOMON: Right.

COLLINS: And I remember last week President Biden was asked about this by our colleague Jeremy Diamond if his policies helped or hurt. And he said he believed that they helped with inflation -- or they helped, not hurt. And I wonder, is that really the argument here or is Bezos -- does Bezos have a point?

SOLOMON: Well, I think it depends on who you ask. I mean this idea of, would raising corporate taxes help lower inflation. I mean supporters say that by raising corporate taxes you raised revenue for governments, thus lowering the trade deficit, thus, perhaps, adding to lower inflation. Critics, however, say, by raising corporate taxes, you hurt business investments and that weakens the economy.

I want to read a comment given to me early this morning by Bill Galston of Brookings. He says, look, there is relatively little that either the president or Congress can do to affect the rate of inflation over the next six months. Supply disruptions from Covid in China and the war in Ukraine means that Xi and Putin will have more influence on price levels than Biden, Pelosi, Schumer and McConnell.

What's ahead? OK, this week we get big retail earnings. So we'll hear from some of the largest corporations, like Lowe's, Target, Home Depot, Walmart in terms of how the consumer is doing. Are consumers still able to absorb inflation and the price hikes that we've all experienced, or are they starting to cut back? So it's -- it's a relatively tight position. It's a box for President Biden.

Powell, by the way, saying last week in an interview that fighting inflation is his top priority but there will likely be some pain that comes along with it.

BERMAN: Yes, we'll look at these numbers as they come in this week. All right, Rahel, great to see you. Thanks so much for being with us.

SOLOMON: Thanks so much.

BERMAN: We are getting new information coming in on the mass shooting in Buffalo. What the sheriff just told CNN about what the suspected gunman is doing behind bars right now.

So, stand by for that.

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[08:59:18]

BERMAN: All right, it is time for "The Good Stuff," and a dream come true for a teenaged drummer who got to sit in with Pearl Jam before 20,000 fans during a concert in Oakland. Listen to this as he is introduced by Eddie Vedder.

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EDDIE VEDDER, PEARL JAM MEMBER: Everybody, this is Kai. Kai, this is everybody!

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BERMAN: Kai, this is everybody. And Kai Neukermans is 18 years old. He sure knew what he was doing there. You can see how good he is. Pearl Jam had been performing without drummer Matt Cameron because he tested positive for Covid. Other drummers have been filling in.

[09:00:02]

But the band gave Kai a shot. And you can see for yourself there, he nailed it.

COLLINS: What were you doing as a high school senior? Because I was not doing anything remotely that cool.

BERMAN: I played the trumpet until I was 13, but I don't think Pearl Jam has space for a trumpet.

COLLINS: I don't know. We're reaching out to you, Pearl Jam. If you want John Berman to come play the trumpet, let us know.

BERMAN: I am available.

CNN's coverage continues right now.