Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Gunman Visited Site of Attack 3 Times in March; Steel Plant in Mariupol Evacuated; Trump's Clout to Be Tested in Pennsylvania Primary. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 17, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Tuesday, May 17. I'm John Berman. Brianna is off this morning. Chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins here with us again.

[05:59:45]

We do have live pictures of the White House this morning. Shortly, President Biden will depart for Buffalo to meet with the families of those killed in the racist mass shooting there.

Moments ago, officials told us the president will condemn, quote, "the terrorism motivated by a hateful and perverse ideology that tears at the soul of our nation." We are told the president will call on Americans to, quote, "give hate no safe harbor and to reject the lies of racial animus that radicalize and divide us."

He will also call for federal legislation to keep guns from the mentally ill.

This morning, we are getting new details about the suspect in Buffalo, the investigation and new copycat threats against that city.

This cell phone video taken by an eyewitness at the moment the suspected shooter was taken into custody. New evidence shows he spent several months carefully planning the attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER JOSEPH GRAMAGLIA, BUFFALO POLICE: He was here. We found some things that show that he was here in early March. And then again, we know that he was here on Friday, basically, doing reconnaissance on the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: The suspect had also considered attacking churches or elementary schools, according to his own social media posts, but he hesitated because of the security at schools.

We'll have more on those disturbing details, as well as how he was easily able to purchase a firearm, including the one that he used to gun down ten people, despite being given a mental health evaluation less than a year ago.

CNN has also obtained a photo of two of the rifles that the shooter brought with him to the supermarket in Buffalo. Writing appears all over the weapons, including racial slurs and the phrase "White lives matter."

Federal officials held a conference call with law enforcement leaders across the United States to make sure they're familiar with the details of this case so they can help spot potential copycats.

Let's go now to Buffalo, where CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live on the ground. Shimon, what is the latest that you're hearing from investigators as we are finding out more about what was happening before this attack?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And it appears that, as you said, he spent months allegedly planning this. This according to officials who have now reviewed new information, social media postings from as far back as March which indicate that he had been been here visiting this Tops supermarket, doing what they call a reconnaissance kind of mission, so to say.

And what they're concerned about is the fact that he was here talking to people, looking around, trying to plot his attack, which he spent months doing. Also, they have discovered that he spent some time in researching the weapons.

A lot of the information that investigators have comes from the alleged shooter's own words. Documents that he posted online, and the FBI, along with other investigators here, have been reviewing all of those documents, poring them over.

And what they find is that they believe that he was radicalized for quite some time. Sitting at home, studying this information. And then ultimately, what led him to strike on Saturday is still unclear.

Also, we have new -- a new photo of the weapons that he brought with him to this location. On it, investigators tell me, there are some disturbing writings. White supremacist slogans and phrases, all part of this radicalization that has -- that had occurred with the alleged shooter.

They also say that they are talking to his family. They have spoken to his parents. They have cooperated in the investigation.

And now, the other thing that we're waiting for, federal hate crimes. We're told that the U.S. attorney's office here is, obviously, part of this investigation and that, in the coming days, they could be filing charges, new federal hate crime charges against the alleged shooter.

COLLINS: We'll be watching closely to see what they do, and of course, what President Biden says when he's on the ground there today.

Shimon, thank you.

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now, former FBI deputy assistant director Peter Strzok. He's also the author of "Compromised: Counterintelligence and the Threat of Donald J. Trump."

Peter, thanks so much for being with us.

Look, federal law enforcement has identified white supremacy as a newish and emerging threat. And the ADL, we know, says that more than 50 percent of extremist killings over the last ten years have been by white supremacists.

Why, then, or what makes it so hard for federal law enforcement to battle these groups, particularly when we're talking about lone wolfs?

PETER STRZOK, FORMER FBI DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, FBI Director Chris Wray identified racially- motivated violent extremism as one of the largest that's facing the nation right now, on part with any international terrorism threat.

What makes it particularly difficult for law enforcement, for the FBI, and partners in federal, state and local law enforcement, is many of these actors are not operating in -- as part of a group. They are not engaged in a conspiracy with others. There isn't some large enterprise going on where law enforcement can see those actors planning, can see how they're communicating, can see how they're being funded.

When, instead, you have individuals by themselves, not talking to anybody else, merely looking at information on the Internet, posting alone on the Internet, it's much, much harder for anyone to see them, let alone law enforcement.

[06:05:05]

So getting ahead of this information, getting ahead of these threats, and being able to identify them before those events take place is an extraordinarily difficult challenge.

COLLINS: But, Peter, I think that's such a big question here, because he did post this screed online. He had gone to this supermarket several times. He had interactions with the security guard who asked him why he kept coming in and out of the store.

He was flagged at school for making a comment about committing a murder/suicide, and had a mental health evaluation done. And so I think it just raises questions for people, is the signs seem to have been there. Yet, he -- he was still able to fall off the radar of authorities, basically.

STRZOK: No, I think that's absolutely right. And two points. One is a lot of the things that we saw posted, while hateful, are still legal. So there is attention (ph) in terms of when people go online, and they're saying things that you and I might look at and say, this is absolutely abhorrent. This is racist behavior. This is racist expression. It's nevertheless allowed.

But to your other point, there absolutely were a number of warning signs that presented themselves, things where he made threats in school and where he actually went -- underwent a mental health evaluation. New York has laws on the book that people who are -- can be flagged as risks which makes it more difficult for them to get weapons.

But clearly in this case, the system broke down. So now, as a real (ph), unfortunately, this presents an opportunity for not only New York but the nation to look at all these different systems and say, Are they sufficient? Do we have enough of a process in place, not only from law enforcement, whose job is to police, but also through, you know, potentially additional funding for mental health professionals who can go in there and look at threats for people who might be inclined to radicalize before that actually happens.

But there are a lot of things here that should have been seen that were seen. And the question is what can we do now to ensure that, as these factors are there, that we do a better job of educating communities about what those warning signs are and taking action on them before we move to deadly violence?

BERMAN: "The New York Times" reports this morning that, among the writings of the suspect, he said when he had that mental health evaluation, he had to wait 15 hours or something in an emergency room but was only interviewed for 15 minutes.

And in a way, he was sort of bragging that he was able to get through that mental health process, that might have raised a red flag had someone been able to spot correctly the warning signs that were there.

I wonder how you prevent something like that? I wonder how you fix that, Peter? And I also wonder, because President Biden is going to talk today about trying to keep guns from the mentally ill. What makes them so vulnerable to this type of message?

STRZOK: Well, I think that's absolutely critical, to raise awareness across the board of what those threats are and what it looks like when somebody begins to self-radicalize.

Part of the issue here is not only the availability of guns, particularly for those who might have mental health issues, but also the sort of increasing availability of this very violent racist rhetoric online.

And then finally, what most concerns me, in some ways, is sort of the creeping acceptance in the mainstream of, you know, the shooter espoused what was, you know, commonly known as white replacement theory. And there is this broadening acceptance of that theory. And many in mainstream media, particularly on the far right, that is not limited to simply the extremes of the corners of the Internet; that you see that creeping into something that's accepted in a broader part of the population.

We absolutely have to push back against that. Any sort of acceptance of this sort of behavior is unacceptable. And it is that sort of behavior that allows this sort of violence to take root and spread. And we've got to push back on that. And that is part of the, you know, kind of community awareness and the push that needs to be going on right now to educate the American people.

BERMAN: Peter Strzok, thank you for being with us this morning. STRZOK: Thank you.

BERMAN: So it is primary day in several key states, including the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and North Carolina, as well. We have a closer look at the races and the stakes ahead.

And overnight, Russian missile strikes bring heavy damage and casualties North of Kyiv.

COLLINS: Plus, Mariupol is on the brink. Ukraine declaring an end to its combat mission in the besieged port city after hundreds have been evacuated from a steel plant that was seen as one of the last Ukrainian holdouts there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:13:42]

BERMAN: We have important new developments out of Ukraine this morning. Ukrainian military officials say civilians have been killed in a Russian strike -- sorry, not on Kharkiv right there. Instead, it happened on the city of Okhtyrka, which is right here. Civilians killed there.

Targets have caused a lot of damage, they say, on the ground.

That Russian efforts to advance in the East are being repulsed.

The most important development, though, is out of Mariupol, where it does seem that the Ukrainians have given up fighting for the steel plant there that has been the last line of defense in that city.

Officials say that more than 260 people have been evacuated from the steel plant there, more than 50 who were seriously injured. They were taken to a facility for medical care.

And officials in Kharkiv say Ukrainian forces continue their advances in the region. They say it has helped to reduce but not eliminate Russian artillery attacks on that city.

I want to bring in Mark Hertling, a retired military general, CNN military analyst.

General, thank you so much for being with us. I believe the most important development here, the one that we should really be focused on, is out of Mariupol, where it does seem the Ukrainians have told us that they've given up fighting, given up trying to hold onto the steel plant there that's been the last line of defense.

[06:15:08]

Talk to me about the strategic significance of that.

GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, for over 70 days, John, the fighter within that -- that construction -- part of the steel plant, have held off estimates somewhere between 12 and 14,000 Russians. So, you're talking about anywhere from probably 10 to 12 battalion tactical groups.

What's important about that is those units were supposed to take that city, secure that city very quickly and then move to other locations, either to the West toward Kherson and possibly even Odessa to create a linkup operation, or to the North into the -- into the Donbas, the Donetsk region. They have not been able to do that.

Those small group of fighters, injured as they've been, courageous as they've been, have held off the Russian forces that are extremely -- well, they're required in some of the other areas of operations. And because they have present [SIC] -- prevented the movement of those Russian forces, the Ukrainian forces have had successes in other areas of the battlefield.

BERMAN: So, that talks about what the importance of Mariupol has been to this point. That inside that city, the Ukrainians, really, have been able to divert a huge amount of Russian material and resources. But now that that appears to be over, now that the Ukrainians do appear to be leaving there, what can the Russians make of it?

HERTLING: Well, first of all, it's not only a physical battle, John. It's also a psychological one.

Since you zoomed on the map there, look where Mariupol is in connection with the -- with the contested area of the Donbas, the Donetsk Republic. It is right on the border.

Since 2014, the Russians have said they wanted Mariupol. That is considered the eye of the Azov Sea. It is -- it is a critically- important psychological target that the Russians have not been able to gain over the last eight years.

But now they have gained it, but they've destroyed the city in the process.

If you were to zoom in on another map to see the roads and railroads going to the East and West, and to the North out of Mariupol, that is a huge city which called a line -- a critical point in a line of communication. The ability to do resupplies from Rostov-on-Don, a Russian city farther to the East, all the way to Odessa and beyond.

There's a highway called the M-14 that runs through Mariupol, as well as a railroad line.

So all of those things are critically important for the Russians for resupply. Logistics in this operation, going in and out of Crimea to the East, and in and out of Crimea to the West. If they didn't have Mariupol, they were thwarted from doing it.

But now, truthfully, John, that city has been utterly destroyed. It's -- it's criminal what the Russians have done to that in terms of bombardment and artillery strikes. So they may be able to use the routes, but it's still going to be extremely difficult.

And truthfully, you know, even though the Ukrainians have said they've -- they've taken the injured and the wounded out of there, about 300 soldiers, I would suggest they probably still have some soldiers in that. And it's still going to be a headache for the Russians as they continue to try and fight there.

BERMAN: We will see over the coming days, to be sure. General Hertling, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

HERTLING: You bet, John. Thanks.

BERMAN: All right. It is primary day. Key races in key states testing Donald Trump's political clout.

COLLINS: Plus, New York Democrats are getting some bad news as maps are redrawn in favor of the GOP.

And a potential temporary solution to the infant formula shortage for millions of parents whose babies are over 6 months.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:23:13]

COLLINS: In several key states across the country, voters are lining up for the last day of primary voting. The first polls close at 6 p.m. tonight. And the spotlight is on Pennsylvania and the Republican Senate primary, where the TV personality Mehmet Oz has been endorsed by former President Trump and is facing off against the former hedge fund CEO David McCormick, and Kathy Barnette, who has had a late surge in the race.

On the Democratic side, Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman is hoping to hold off Congressman Conor Lamb and state Representative Malcolm Kenyatta. Fetterman, though, is also recovering from a minor stroke.

BERMAN: In the Republican race for governor, state Senator Doug Mastriano, who endorsed the big lie and now has received the endorsement of Donald Trump, is battling former congressman, Lou Barletta, as well as former U.S. attorney, Bill McSwain, and businessman David White. The winner will face Pennsylvania attorney general Josh Shapiro, who is running unopposed for the Democratic nomination.

And Pennsylvania not the only state to watch. In North Carolina, several Republicans are competing to win Senator Richard Burr's seat. Congressman Ted Budd, who did received Donald Trump's endorsement, is facing off against former governor, Pat McCrory; as well as former congressman, Mark Walker; and Army veteran Marjorie Eastman.

Voters will also decide -- and this may be the spotlight race in North Carolina -- if Madison Cawthorn will get to keep his seat after a first term filled with controversies, to say the least.

His opponents are former district Republican chairman Michele Woodhouse and state Senator Chuck Edwards.

COLLINS: Joining us now is Errol Louis, CNN political commentator and the host of the "You Decide" podcast; and Maggie Haberman, CNN political analyst and senior political reporter for "The New York Times."

Thank you both for joining us.

Maggie, I'm going to start with you. What are you going to be watching in Pennsylvania tonight?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Who wins. That's the main question.

But in all seriousness, the Senate primary, I don't remember a race like this in a very long time. They're all bunched up, the top three. It's not clear at all who's going to win.

[06:25:06]

Trump tried pushing Mehmet Oz over the top. He may still end up doing that. But there are a lot of strategist working this race who say to me they can see Oz finishing third.

So I mean, the big question is, you know, Oz comes into this, I think, with ideological issues for the Republican base of his own. But it will absolutely be seen as a -- as a measure of the limits of Trump's appeal.

BERMAN: So Errol, Maggie says she's going to be watching for who wins tonight. What are you going to be looking for?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, actually, I will be looking for who loses, you know. I mean, because the question is, in an interesting kind of a way, Trump won Pennsylvania by a hair in 2016, lost it by a hair in 2020. What does his endorsement mean? What -- what does the MAGA movement want to do? And what is his role?

Is he, as he would have us believe, the leader of this -- this sort of populist fire that he set off? Or is he sort of following along?

You know, I mean, Kathy Barnette is making a convincing case that, you know, we are the ones who brought you Donald Trump, not the other way around, and we will determine who our leadership is. I think that accounts for some of her surge.

They spent $50 million, her two opponents. These guys are very, very rich. A Wall Street millionaire, tech millionaire, and Mehmet Oz, a Hollywood millionaire. She spent a couple hundred thousand dollars, and she's very much in the running.

COLLINS: Yes, we thought it was going to be this battles of these two millionaires, and now she's had this surge. She does not have Trump's endorsement, but she's basically made this argument that the base was there before Trump was, and that's who she's appealing to.

But part of that is that there are so many unknown factors about her. That's something that even Trump said, that she hasn't been vetted. Once he believes she is, he thinks that's going to be a problem come November. And so I wonder what you read into the fact that she's talked to Rick

Scott, the head of the Senate Republicans lately, and what they've talked about. The fact that he has called her twice in recent days, what that says to you.

HABERMAN: It says to me a couple of things, but among them is that Scott is being, frankly, a prudent committee chairman and sees that the writing may be on the wall. And she could end up being his candidate. And he is going to back her. They're not going to sort of cut her off. Maybe if she's not doing well in the Fall, and she ends up as the nominee, then things might change.

But I think that he is trying to make it where she comes into the tent a little more. I think he is trying to get her to sand down certain edges. And this is not unusual, when you see a contest like this.

But again, to Errol's point, what her whole message has been, essentially, reminding us that Trump unleashed something he can't really control anymore with this movement. And I think that whether he is able to get his candidate over and turn this into a referendum on him is the big open question of the day. It's hard to overstate that.

BERMAN: And to be clear, we just have no idea what's going to happen tonight.

HABERMAN: That's right.

BERMAN: I can't think of a race that has been quite like this in recent memory. We're going into the night, anything could happen.

HABERMAN: That's right.

BERMAN: There are three different possible outcomes in that one race. And that's just one of the races we're watching.

All right. We have two of New York's pre-eminent political reporters here, which is why it's interesting to discuss what just happened to the Democrats in New York state in terms of redistricting? I have never seen anything blow up like this appears to be blowing up.

They tried, the Democrats in the state, tried to draw up a very favorable congressional map, like many parties do in states. Now, I want to show you what their initial proposal was that was thrown out by judges.

And now what is being suggested by a special master. The Democrats wanted a proposal that would probably get them 22 of the congressional seats here. Now, they're looking at a map that gives him around 15.

In this new map, five -- five -- of the Democratic incumbents all of a sudden won't live in the districts that they need to run in. They've been districted out of their own districts, in a way.

And with these new maps, there are four mashups among incumbents, which really almost never happens at this level in redistricting. Errol, what on earth has happened here? LOUIS: Yes, well, I mean, look, there's apolitical redistricting and

then there's anti-political districting. And this is closer to the latter, where you've got communities of interest that have long been recognized. The only mostly Jewish district in the United States. The district that includes the first Puerto Rican woman ever elected to Congress. The seat in black Brooklyn that used to be held by Shirley Chisholm.

All of these have been scrambled, incumbents thrown against each other. The district that includes Wall Street has no incumbent. Nobody lives there at this point. No incumbent lives there. It's really remarkable.

And so to the extent that communities of interest, which is recognized by the Supreme Court, as sort of a basis for drawing an unusually shaped district, completely ignored in this case. And so, obviously, a lot of the political establishment, screaming and hollering, trying to make a case, trying to make a last-ditch effort to head this off. It could be finalized, though, as soon as Friday.

COLLINS: And it's not just that you're going to see the most senior House Democrats running, potentially, against each other in primaries. It has huge implications for their control of the House.

HABERMAN: It has huge implications for control of the House. The thing that you will hear from Democrats in this state, privately, is that the initial maps were an overreach, that this was a mistake; that it should have been very clear that this was going to be a problem.

And then this version is an -- antipolitical, I think, was your word.

[06:30:00]