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White House COVID Czar Joins New Day As Officials Sound Alarm On Wave; UK: Russia Fires Senior Commanders Who "Performed Poorly"; Michigan Election Chief: Trump Said I Should Be Executed For Treason. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 20, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:33:21]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: COVID cases on the rise in most states across the country. Health officials are blaming the highly contagious Omicron subvariants. Even still, officials in cities, including New York, say they will not reinstate measures, like mask mandates, because of relatively stable hospitalization numbers and numbers for deaths.

There is some positive news. The CDC has expanded eligibility of boosters for children ages five through 11. Vaccines for children under five, though, still awaiting authorization.

Joining me now is the White House COVID-19 response coordinator, Dr. Ashish Jha. Dr. Jha, always nice to see you again.

The daily case number at this point is about 100,000 and that's probably an underestimate, right, because of all the people testing at home and not reporting it.

In terms of the wave that we are seeing, how high do you expect the daily numbers to get?

DR. ASHISH JHA, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Yes, good morning, John. Thanks for having me here.

You're absolutely right -- we're crossing that 100,000 threshold and I'm convinced we are substantially undercounting the number of infections out there because of home tests.

So, we have a lot of infections. It's continued to rise and I expect that number will continue to rise in the days and weeks ahead. We don't have any projections of exactly how high. Obviously, we want to keep that number down as much as possible.

But we're also tracking hospitalizations and deaths which, thankfully, remain pretty low. And my hope is that stays that way.

BERMAN: One of the things that we are seeing now Dr. Jha is people being infected for a second, third -- in some cases, fourth time. As we are two-plus years into this pandemic, what are you learning about these repeat infections in terms of what it means for immunity, and also the severity of these infections?

[07:35:00]

JHA: Yes, it's a really good question. I mean, first and foremost, I think we can now dispense with the misinformation that if you get infected once you have immunity for life. You know, a lot of people have argued that and we knew always that was not the case.

The second thing we're learning is that this virus is evolving. I mean, the virus is evolving relatively quickly, trying to escape our immunity. But when people do get that breakthrough infection after vaccines or that get that reinfection, generally it is less severe. And that's -- you know, that's obviously a very, very good thing. But we've got to keep working on building up the wall of immunity against this virus.

BERMAN: Well, so what does that mean? Does that mean that we're going to be getting shots every six months? My wife just got her fourth shot, right? She had her two initial doses, plus a booster --

JHA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- plus another booster. Are we talking two shots a year?

JHA: We're -- right now -- look, here's where we are. Right now, we are going to have to update our vaccines in the fall and winter because of what we have out there. I do believe that right now, people who are 50 and above should go out and get that second booster because we have so much infection.

And in the short run, yes -- like, we've had to boost people about every six months. Over the long run, I am confident we're going to develop more durable vaccines. The virus is also going to settle down.

And so, my hope is over the long run this comes down to maybe be a once-a-year shot. But right now, we're having to boost people a little bit more frequently because of how quickly the virus is continuing to evolve.

BERMAN: What about those people who are lucky enough to be younger than 50? At this point, it's just 50 and older, you're saying, for a fourth shot, for a second booster. But if you're in your 40s, at this point there are six months-plus out --

JHA" Yes.

BERMAN: -- from having the first booster. Why hold off?

JHA: Yes, it's a great question. This is something FDA is looking at right now. This is going to be a decision by FDA and CDC, as it always is. They're looking at the evidence and data and going to make a determination about what to do for people under 50 and whether they should be eligible for a second booster or not. BERMAN: So, part of the good news is that when people are getting sick it tends to be less severe because they are vaccinated and boosted, and you do have the antiviral treatments -- PAXLOVID. But being infected, at this point -- it does basically give you a 5- or 10-day timeout from society.

What are the considerations going forward about perhaps reimagining how we deal with this because it is a blow on businesses. It is a blow on schools --

JHA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- if all of a sudden you're having to drop out for five days.

JHA: Yes. This is why people who say cases no longer matter, infections don't matter, only hospitalizations and deaths do -- I think this is why one of the reasons they're wrong. I mean, obviously, hospitalizations and deaths matter a lot and maybe that's what matters most.

But when you have a lot of infections, as you said, you're going to have disruption. You're going to have people out of work, people out of school.

We don't want very, very high levels of infection circulating in our community so we've got to do what we can to keep those down for exactly that reason. And obviously, some proportion of people will go on to develop long-term complications as well. So we've got to have -- there are lots of good reasons why we want to keep infection levels.

BERMAN: And I get that. I mean, no one wants to get infected. But I guess what I'm saying is do we have to rethink that happens to people who are infected in letting them be part of society more quickly?

JHA: Well, I mean, I think the question of whether you want to let somebody who is super contagious and knows it out and about, my general feeling right now, given how much infection there is in the community is that would only make things worse. So, certainly, right now I believe that if you are -- if you are infected and you are -- and you know you are, you really should be isolating until you're no longer contagious.

BERMAN: Dr. Jha, I do appreciate this. This is a -- these are the questions that a lot of people are asking right now as we are two-plus years into this.

JHA: I know.

BERMAN: And I do appreciate the time you're giving us.

JHA: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right. Coming up, an employee from the Buffalo grocery store reveals a disturbing encounter with the gunman more than a month before the shooting that claimed 10 lives. ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, what U.S. intelligence is saying about Russian public opinion on Ukraine and whether it could impact Putin's actions.

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[07:43:13]

HILL: A shakeup at the top levels of Russia's military command. According to a British intelligence report, Russia has fired senior commanders who performed poorly during the initial stages of the war in Ukraine.

Suzanne Malveaux is live for us in Lviv this morning. So what more are we learning about this report?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erica, this British intelligence report essentially not only conveys a sense of incompetence on the part of the Russian military, but also this culture of coverups and scandal, and really, finger-pointing there.

And so, they mention some details citing specific Russian officials who had been suspended for various reasons -- failures at the beginning of the war -- one of them who was suspended for the failure of actually capturing Kharkiv; another one who they held responsible for the Ukrainian sinking of that Russian warship, the Moskva.

Now, what this report suggests is that there will be more chaos and confusion on the ground from Russian military as they seek permission from their superiors in terms of what direction -- what they should do next on the ground.

We should also let you know that there is some confusion and a lot of uncertainty in Mariupol in that steel plant where there are still hundreds of Ukrainian military soldiers, as well as the higher top brass that are inside of that steel plant.

Many, many social media messages that are coming out that CNN is collecting and trying to verify, essentially from a soldier. We heard earlier today on his Instagram page saying this message that this is the place of my death and my life, seemingly to say goodbye in some sort of surrender.

[07:45:00]

Another higher-level commander saying that they had gotten an order from up above not to defend the city but rather to focus on themselves, suggesting that perhaps they will be coming out of the facility voluntarily.

And then, this message. This is a video message that was sent out by another military leader inside suggesting that there was more afoot.

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SVIATOSLAV PALAMAR, AZOV REGIMENTAL DEPUTY COMMANDER (through translator): My command and I are on the territory of Azovstal steel plant. An operation is underway. I will not give any details. I'm grateful to the whole world and to Ukraine for support. See you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So, Erica, you can imagine the Ukrainians all just watching and waiting to see what unfolds there. That potentially, this could be a surrender situation or a situation where you see more carnage -- Erica.

HILL: Absolutely, Suzanne. Appreciate the update from Lviv this morning. Thank you.

BERMAN: So, we have new CNN reporting. U.S. intelligence officials believe that any change in Russian public opinion -- even a dramatic one, which honestly, is unlikely -- would not be enough to make Vladimir Putin give up on the war. And despite all that's happening in Ukraine, this reporting says that Putin is likely to remain in power.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis joins us now. Katie, you're part of the team reporting on this and I think there's some really important stuff in here. What have you learned?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes, John. So, Putin has established a repressive media environment inside of Russia. He has successfully created this kind of false alternate narrative of the war through propaganda. He's cracked down on early protest and public dissent. And maybe most importantly, at least for now, he's been able to isolate his population from some of the worst bite of the Western sanctions on their kind of day-to-day life.

So, as you indicate, at least for now, the war remains broadly popular inside Russia and U.S. intelligence officials are skeptical that is likely to change, at least in the short run.

But maybe most interestingly, officials that we spoke to said that even if there were to be this big dramatic swing in public opinion against the war, officials are doubtful that Putin would have to be responsive to that swing. He would likely be able to move just to sort of crack down further on dissent and continue to prosecute the war as he sees fit. Because remember, John, this is somebody who is uniquely determined to carry out this war, right? He sees himself as fulfilling a kind of sense of personal destiny in bringing Ukraine back into the Russian fold as Putin sees it.

And I want to share with you something that multiple sources familiar with the intelligence told us, which is that Putin is sort of intimately involved in the kind of day-to-day decision-making surrounding this campaign -- the kind of operational decisions like where attack lines are going to be that in Western militaries would normally be reserved for much lower-ranking officials.

So as a senior NATO official told us, if Putin isn't listening to his own senior military commanders, his own cabinet, it's pretty unlikely that he's going to be responsive to public opinion in that way either. BERMAN: That's very interesting. Intimately involved with even the minor details. And also important because the U.S. basically has to plan for the reality that Putin's going to be there for a long time, no matter what happens on the ground.

LILLIS: Precisely so. Although, John, our reporting does indicate that there has been some sort of orally analytical work being done inside the Intelligence Community to look like -- to look at what the end of a Putin-era might look like eventually. And the consensus is there's a possibility that it could look pretty messy.

BERMAN: It raises a whole bunch of questions.

Katie Bo Lillis, I have to say, terrific reporting. Thank you.

LILLIS: Thanks so much, John.

BERMAN: President Biden in South Korea this morning. What North Korea might be doing to grab the spotlight. We're live on the ground, coming up.

HILL: Also, a Michigan election official who faced threats of arrest and death allegedly from the former U.S. president himself. She'll join us.

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[07:53:14]

HILL: One week ago, Friday the 13th turned out to be the luckiest day for a 4-month-old baby. That's when a quick-thinking Atlanta police officer went beyond the call to save him.

CNN's Nick Valencia has the story.

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NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Looking at senior patrol officer Robert Oden, you can tell he's a pretty tough guy. As part of the Atlanta Police Department's SWAT team, the 18-year veteran is trained for the most hostile calls. But on May 13, a routine patrol turned him into one family's Godsend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not responding.

SENIOR PATROL OFFICER ROBERT ODEN, ATLANTA POLICE SWAT TEAM: The family actually pulled in right in the driveway.

Go knock on the door and see if somebody's there.

VALENCIA (on camera): They're looking for help desperately.

ODEN: Yes.

(Audio gap) ODEN: Yes. He was -- he was pretty pale in the face. His lips were kind of a light blue so I could tell he wasn't getting any air and no blood flow. So I immediately -- you know, I just started compressions. As I continued, I think after my second breath I gave him, his legs kind of curled up, so I felt like we were getting somewhere.

VALENCIA (voice-over): While wearing 20 pounds of SWAT gear, Oden continued to calmly and delicately give the infant CPR. Within seconds, the little boy started to show signs of life.

VALENCIA (on camera): When was the last time you put CPR to practice in your job?

ODEN: You know, honestly, it was probably 15 years ago.

VALENCIA (on camera): And then, yet, here you are rescuing a 4-month- old.

ODEN: Yes, yes.

VALENCIA (on camera): That's crazy.

ODEN: It worked. It wasn't perfect but it worked.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Oden, himself a father of two, says he empathizes with the family and is just grateful to have been of service.

The mother declined our request for an interview but Oden says they told him the boy, D.J., is expected to fully recover.

[07:55:03]

ODEN: It took a minute for it to sink in. But, you know, it is a blessing --

VALENCIA (on camera): Yes.

ODEN: -- yes, to know that I was able to help this family. They're not mourning right now; they're celebrating.

VALENCIA (voice-over): A celebration for one family and for Oden, a blessing.

Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: That infant CPR -- to see it happen -- oh.

HILL: That's what I was thinking, too. As Nick said, when's the last time you used this? But on top of it, infant CPR.

BERMAN: Yes.

HILL: Yes. Great story. BERMAN: All right. Michigan's top election official alleging for the first time in an interview with NBC that former President Trump made threatening comments about her after she refused to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

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JOCELYN BENSON (D), MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: Even the president himself had called on me to be arrested and tried for treason, and potentially executed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So a Trump spokesman denied these claims to NBC, saying Sec. Benson knowingly lied throughout that interview.

Michigan Democratic Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson joins us now. Thank you so much for being with us.

So, what exactly did you learn was said about you, and how did you learn it?

BENSON: I received a phone call at a time when, again, threats were abundant in the aftermath of the 2020 election. This was right around the same time that people had showed up outside my house threatening me as well. And so, I received a call that this had happened and it was told to me through the perspective of this is how bad things are getting.

And my focus at the time entirely was just on focusing on protecting the results -- the accurate results of the 2020 election. So, my mind and my thoughts shifted completely to that as I worked to just feel safe but also feel that the truth was on our side, the law was on our side, and that I wasn't going to back down to any threats from anyone, including the former President of the United States.

HILL: You have been vocal about the threats that you've received. As you just heard, as John pointed out, a Trump spokesman telling NBC that you were, quote, "knowingly lying" during that interview.

Why did you decide to talk about this particular moment now?

BENSON: Because the threats to our election officials at every level continue to rise and are escalating, especially as we enter into a new election cycle this year. So, I want Americans to know that local election officials, state officials, Democrats, Republicans, Independents in cities and rural areas all across the country are facing a barrage of threats simply for trying to do our jobs with integrity.

And it's time for all of us to make sure election officials are able to be safe in their homes, safe doing their jobs from everyone. And basically, I feel this has to stop.

BERMAN: In Pennsylvania, the Republican Party nominated Doug Mastriano to be their gubernatorial candidate. This is someone who worked to overturn the election results unabashedly and publicly.

What does it tell you that this appears to be happening now around the country?

BENSON: Yes. That again, these threats -- they're directly tied to the misinformation emerging out of the 2020 election cycle. This election denialism that we now see candidates all across the country, including in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and elsewhere, running on is linked to the direct threats that election officials are receiving.

And I think it's also important to know that these threats aren't just threats against election officials, as awful as those in and of themself are. These are threats to our democracy. These are threats to the American people's ability freely choose who governs them and hold them accountable.

So, I think it's time for everyone -- candidates, Democrats, Republicans, anyone -- to start telling the truth and to stop denying the results of the 2020 election so that we can move forward and continue to protect and expand democracy in a -- in a state and a country where every citizen deserves to know that their vote counts regardless of where they live or who they vote for.

HILL: You're running, of course. Your opponent, Kristina Karamo, had said in the past she thought, as an overseer in 2020 -- an observer -- that she had seen some election irregularities. She said, actually, that you should go to jail. She's accused you of election corruption, as we know.

What are the conversations happening right now on the ground in Michigan?

BENSON: The conversations I'm having are with our election officials, with law enforcement, with lawmakers -- are about how we can protect our democracy and how we can protect those who run it in times like these.

I have myself, allocated $8 million in security funding for our local election officials and clerks so that they can invest in improvements to the security of our processes and our staff. And I've also called on our state legislature and lawmakers to increase the penalties for those who threaten election officials.

Because, again, this has to stop. There's no place for rhetoric like this in our democracy. And we should be talking about issues that affect our state, the American people, as opposed to continuing to spread conspiracy.