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Biden Speaks about Texas School Shooting; Lori Alhadeff is Interviewed about School Shootings; Dave Cullen is Interviewed about School Shootings. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 25, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

MJ LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: From Asia. It occurred to him -- it struck him that this kind of thing, this kind of mass shooting just doesn't happen in other countries. That this is a rare and unique thing to the United States. And I think just to illustrate this for people, you'll recall that it was right before the president left for his trip to Asia that he had to make a trip to Buffalo, New York, so that he could grieve with and console the community there because there had been a mass shooting in a supermarket just a couple of days before he left for that Asia trip.

So, you know, this is a president who, as vice president, he led the task force after the Sandy Hook shooting to try to get something done on gun control measures. And it was back then, ten years ago, that he was disappointed that nothing legislatively was able to get done. And now, again, he is president, ten years later, again in the position of having to call on Congress to take some kind of action.

But you heard it directly from the president there, that he really didn't want to be in this position as president, having to address the nation because a mass shooter -- a mass shooting has occurred where a number of children are now dead. This is a frustration, and something so emotional that the president, again, has dealt with for so many years. And we talk about the inaction in Washington. He is just very, very familiar with that at this point, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Twice in two weeks.

LEE: Yes.

BERMAN: MJ Lee, thank you for being there. I know it was a long night for you. Appreciate it.

Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger and David Axelrod, CNN senior political commentator and former senior adviser to President Obama.

We listen to President Biden there. You can't question his empathy.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. KEILAR: But as Lisa Lair of "The New York Times" pointed out, there was no specific call to action, David. And I wonder if this is a White House resigned to nothing really happening even after this.

AXELROD: You know, experience is a harsh teacher. We've been through this. There's a "Groundhog Day" quality to this. We've seen these tragedies before. I remember getting the call from President Obama, after I had left the White House, after Newtown, and it just said, this is the first time I've cried in the Oval Office. And remember he teared up again in anger when the Congress wouldn't act, even in the face of the slaughter of young people.

I texted with a senator on the Democratic side this morning, and I said, what are the chances of something happening here? He said zero. Zero.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's -- that's the issue here. There are things they can do. There are things that are pending that have passed the House that are sitting and waiting in the Senate. And there are things that are popular with the American public. You know, expanding background checks, red flag laws, so if you see somebody who's acting nuts, you can say, wait a minute, put a red flag next to this person's name. This person should not, you know, get a gun. Banning high-capacity magazines. That kind of thing. Common sense reforms. And this is why you saw the president so angry and frustrated because, quite frankly, he's been working on this since 1994, when the Congress passed the assault weapons ban and then let it expire 10 years later.

KEILAR: But zero -- zero percent chance.

BORGER: Zero.

KEILAR: That is infuriating, because what that tells you is that there is a higher percent chance that your child or grandchild goes to school or is in the neighborhood and gets shot than there is that Congress is going to do something about it.

AXELROD: Yes, I know that -- listen, the question is, do you ever reach a point where people are willing to lay down their own political arms and try and find a path forward. Because what generally happens is, this issue gets weaponized for political bases. And you sort of see those battle lines forming again even as we speak.

And this is what makes people cynical about politics. This is, obviously, a national epidemic. We saw it in Buffalo. We saw it in Texas. We don't know where the next one will be, but we're pretty sure there will be a next one, and yet people, you know, politicians, by their nature, prize their own re-election. And that's why Chris Murphy's remarks were so pointed last night.

KEILAR: Well, so can we -- let's listen to these.

AXELROD: Yes.

KEILAR: This is Chris Murphy. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I'm here, on this floor, to beg -- to literally get down on my hands and knees and beg my colleagues. Find a path forward here. Work with us to find a way to pass laws that make this less likely.

I understand my Republican colleagues will not agree to everything that I may support, but there is a common denominator that we can find.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:35:05]

KEILAR: (INAUDIBLE) common denominator be. What should it be?

BORGER: You know, the irony here is, I think it's sitting right in front of them, Brianna. It's right there. Expand some kind of background checks. Maybe it doesn't have to be for as long a time as Democrats say. And just, you know, come up with some kind of compromise. If there's a flag raised, maybe you -- instead of waiting three days, you wait 15 days, 10 -- you know, whatever it is.

AXELROD: Right.

BORGER: Red flag, as I was just talking about before. You seeing some crazy, you say, OK, this person cannot get a gun. There are things that can be done.

What I don't understand, look, the Democrats are all voting for this. And what I don't understand is why a leader doesn't say, we're keeping you in here. You're not going on vacation Memorial Day weekend. You are -- you are staying here. And we need to try and get something done because 90 percent of the American public is saying, we're sick of this. This is it. And maybe, you know, maybe there will be what happened yesterday. Maybe it's, you know, all of it taken together. But at some point there's a saturation.

And if Americans are numb to this, and I don't think they are, then what -- as Chris Murphy says, what are they there for? Congress is a lagging indicator. It doesn't lead on issues.

KEILAR: That's a great point.

BORGER: It lags and it follows.

AXELROD: Yes. Right.

BORGER: And maybe the Congress, maybe Democrats, you tell me, maybe Democrats can find ten votes, ten votes in the Senate.

AXELROD: Well, we'll see. Schumer's put -- he's taken the procedural step of moving forward on a couple of bills that have been languishing since 2019 from the House. One would expand background checks to cover gun shows and online sales. BORGER: Background checks.

AXELROD: The other would expand the time for background checks from three days to 20.

BORGER: To 20, 50 (ph).

AXELROD: They could compromise on that. Both of which are widely supported by the American people.

And the question is, if these come up for a vote, will these be show votes to position for the next election, or will there be a coming together and actually pass these bills? And we'll see.

But, as I said, you know, history is not encouraging here. And I don't know what it will take.

BORGER: And if Republicans say this is a mental illness issue, fine. Do something on the other side of that equation also. You see what I'm saying?

AXELROD: Although that would be -- I agree, but that would be a shame, because one of the problems we have is -- I mean this kid bought two assault weapons on his 18th birthday. You can't drink in the state of Texas until you're 21.

BORGER: Right. But --

AXELROD: But you can buy assault weapons. There is something wrong with that.

BORGER: Right. But I think you have to -- if you say, OK, red flag, looks at the mental illness part of this -- part of this equation. So I think that you're not going to excuse somebody who goes out at 18 and buys assault weapons, but -- but there has to be a conversation that doesn't back people into their -- into their little pre-existing corners.

AXELROD: Yes. For sure.

KEILAR: There are overlapping problems here that need to be addressed. But it takes a lot of political capital. And the question is, how much are our nations in will (ph).

AXELROD: Well, and political -- and in some cases political courage.

BORGER: Right.

KEILAR: Yes, courage. And how much are our children worth? I think they're worth a lot.

BORGER: Yes.

AXELROD: Yes, they sure are.

KEILAR: We'll see. We'll see what Congress says. Gloria, David, thank you so much.

So, some new information on this shooting at Robb Elementary School in Texas. The gunman barricading himself inside a classroom, killing 21 people inside of that one classroom, mostly fourth graders.

And hear the emotional plea from Golden State Warriors Head Coach Steve Kerr, who says he is fed up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE KERR, HEAD COACH, GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: Now we have children murdered at school. When are we going to do something?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:47]

KEILAR: An impassioned plea in the wake of the Texas school shooting from Steve Kerr, the head coach of the NBA's Golden State Warriors. The gun violence issue, personal. His father was a victim. Before his team took the court last night for their playoff game in Dallas, Kerr called out Mitch McConnell and other senators for their inaction on gun control legislation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE KERR, HEAD COACH, GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: I'm not going to talk about basketball. Nothing's happened with our team in the last six hours. We're going to start the same way tonight. Any basketball questions don't matter.

Since we left shoot around, 14 children were killed 400 miles from here. And a teacher. And in the last ten days we've had elderly black people killed in a supermarket in Buffalo. We've had Asian churchgoers killed in southern California. And now we have children murdered at school.

When are we going to do something? I'm tired. I'm so tired of getting up here and offering condolences to -- to the devastated families that are out there. I'm so tired of the -- excuse my -- I'm sorry. I'm tired of the moments of silence. Enough!

There's 50 senators right now who refuse to vote on HR-8, which is a background check rule that the House passed a couple years ago. It's been sitting there for two years. And there's a reason they won't vote on it, to hold on to power.

So, I ask you, Mitch McConnell, I ask all of you senators who refuse to do anything about the violence in school shootings and supermarket shootings, I ask you, are you going to put your own desire for power ahead of the lives of our children and our elderly and our churchgoers? Because that's what it looks like. That's what we do every week. So, I'm fed up. I've had enough. We're going to play the game tonight.

But I want every person here, every person listening to this to think about your own child, or grandchild, or mother or father or sister, brother.

[08:45:06]

How would you feel if this happened to you today?

We can't get numb to this. We can't sit here and just read about it and go, well, let's have a moment of silence. Yes, go Dovs (ph), you know? Come on, Mavs, let's go. That's what we're going to do. We're going to go play a basketball game. And 50 senators in Washington are going to hold us hostage.

Do you realize that 90 percent of Americans, regardless of political party, want background check, universal background checks? Ninety percent of us. We are being held hostage by 50 senators in Washington who refuse to even put it to a vote despite what we, the American people, want. They won't vote on it because they want to hold on to their own power.

It's pathetic! I've had enough!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Steve Kerr, the coach for the Golden State Warriors.

This morning, at least 19 parents are waking up to an empty bed and one less place at the breakfast table.

Joining us now is someone who lived that nightmare four years ago, and knows what these parents are going through today. Lori Alhadeff is the mother of Alyssa Alhadeff, who was killed in Marjorie Stoneman Douglas School shooting in Parkland, Florida. Alyssa was 14-years-old and a freshman. She would have been in college this year.

Lori is now a Broward County School Board member, and she joins us now.

Lori, thank you so much for being with us.

And, again, I know it's asking you to relive the worst moment of your life, but we just learned now that all the families of the children here who were killed have been notified. The children have been identified. What's it like to get that call, that horrible call?

LORI ALHADEFF, MOTHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM ALYSSA ALHADEFF: It's so horrific and so painful to find out, you know, my daughter, Alyssa, who was only 14-years-old, shot eight times in her English classroom. It's a parent's worst nightmare.

BERMAN: It's got to be. And the thing that makes it even worse is the fear, the hours of waiting and not knowing and the uncertainty there. I don't know if you had those moments of uncertainty like so many of the parents here did, but it took a long time to get them notified. What was that like?

ALHADEFF: So, I got a text message saying that shots were fired at Stoneman Douglas High School, kids running and jumping the fence. And then from that moment, I had this sense of loss and fear that came over me. And we ended up going to the reunification center, waiting hours upon hours and being asked questions about what Alyssa looked like, what was she wearing and keep sending the same information over and over, to find out at 2:00 in the morning and was told by the FBI that Alyssa was shot in the face and she was unrecognizable. And in that most, you know, horrific point in my life, it was actually the wrong information. And Alyssa was shot eight times, but not in the face.

BERMAN: So, what do you want these parents, Lori, now to know? I mean some of the things that you've done over the four years have been so deeply moving. I can barely think about it, the letters you've written to your daughter and the like. What do these parents need to know going forward?

ALHADEFF: To know that you can turn your pain and grief into action. I started a non-profit organization, Make our School Safe. I help pass Alyssa's Law in Florida and New Jersey, not only honoring Alyssa, but trying to make school safer, giving a mass notification to law enforcement so they can get on the scene as quickly as possible.

And even though right now that there is such pain in your heart and you're numb and you can't even think or move, that through, you know, having -- getting therapy, and the support and love from your friends can help you get past this. And, one day at a time. I know it's like a roller coaster.

But, you know, we are trying to do things like pass the Safer Schools Act. You know, and I please ask all the moms and dads out there, you want to do something, then please reach out to your congressman and congresswoman and ask them to co-sponsor the Safer Schools Act. Help us get funding in our schools to be able to take care of these risks, to make it harder for violent people, active shooters, to come in our schools and do harm.

[08:50:00]

BERMAN: Lori Alhadeff, we appreciate you being with us. And just know that Alyssa is always in our thoughts. Thank you.

ALHADEFF: Thank you.

BERMAN: We are now learning the names and faces of several victims of this massacre. Two 10-year-olds and a fourth grade teacher killed.

This is CNN's special live coverage. Much more ahead from Uvalde, Texas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: CNN is learning more about the 21 victims who lost their lives inside a single classroom at the Robb Elementary School her in Uvalde, Texas. And that is new information. All the victims were in one fourth grade classroom.

Ten-year-old Amerie Jo Garza has been identified by her father. He spent hours trying to find his daughter after the shooting. Anhil (ph) Garza says, my little love is now flying high with the angels above.

Also, 10-year-old fourth grader Xavier Lopez. His mother took this photo of him at an honor roll ceremony, which was just a few hours before the shooting. She tells "The Washington Post," he was her mama's boy. He was funny, never serious, and his smile, that smile, I will never forget. It would always cheer anyone up. He really couldn't wait to go to middle school.

[08:55:00]

KEILAR: Look at that face.

The survivors of the Columbine massacre are now 40 years old. They have elementary school aged children. It's a very disturbing cycle in America. It is a unique horror of this generation.

Joining me now is Dave Cullen. He is the author of two books on high school shootings in America, "Columbine," really the definitive book on that, and "Parkland: Birth of a Movement."

Dave, what are you thinking as you watch what happened in Texas?

DAVE CULLEN, AUTHOR, "COLUMBINE " AND "PARKLAND: BIRTH OF A MOVEMENT": I was getting choked up there.

KEILAR: Listening to the kids.

CULLEN: Yes. Yes, I hadn't seen -- you know, yesterday I was so distraught because I felt the way I did after Newtown, which was kind of different, that -- and I just couldn't handle it.

But I spent, you know, yesterday evening mostly of this distraught mode and then I just like, right about 10:00, went back into the anger mode of, like, God, we have to do something. And really frustrated, you know, with Congress and everyone.

You know, Gabby Giffords is the main person I talk to, the sort of most wise person. She has a name for her organization, Gifford's Courage, which is really kind of a dig on politicians. It's because -- she says the only thing lacking here is the courage to do it. And guess who's not showing any of the courage? It's all of our, quote, leaders who, in 50 years have done nothing. Have not found their backbone. They're starting to, but.

And in the state legislatures, they have. The gun safety people have been winning. But Congress is a different story.

KEILAR: This is a unique horror. When you think about your initial reporting on Columbine, and those -- I mean, I remember, I was a freshman in college, right, and they're in high school and now they have children and they're facing this. CULLEN: And they have to send their children off to grade school to

learn how to do lockdown drills, to be trained. You know, I've got little nieces and nephews that are about to go to first grade and learn how to -- you know, what to do when somebody comes into it with a gun. I don't think they know what a gun is. But, like, OK, if somebody comes in with a gun trying to kill you, here's what you do.

KEILAR: What's the solution? What is the key to finding a solution?

CULLEN: I think the biggest thing is in gun safety. And the dumbest thing that movement, the gun control movement, ever did was naming their movement gun control. Fifty years ago, put them completely on the wrong foot. Who the hell wants to be controlled? And how do you think people on the other side reacted to that of, like, we're going to control you?

This issue has been so divisive, partly because it was framed divisively a long time ago. And part of the responsibility here now is on the media. I don't want to burn the media for everything, but they have come up with a different name, not just a word, but a different way of looking at it as gun safety about six to eight years ago after Newtown, and we're not getting on board. We need to be -- why are we not all calling it gun safety?

I mean I'm gay, and I cannot keep up with, like, all the names of the LGBTQ, like, I don't even remember what they all are, but the media is very happy to go along with that or any group, however they want to be talked about, you know, we say, OK, we'll use your name.

With gun safety, how come we're not doing it? We should never -- if you talk to Gabby Giffords or Shannon Watts or any of the people leading the gun safety movement, you'll never hear the word "control" out of their mouth. We need to start talking about it that way and thinking about it that way. We're not trying to control you people, we're trying to figure out how to make these safe.

One more thing on that. If only there were a national gun safety organization that, you know, gun people could get behind. Well, there was one started about 150 years ago in the wake of the Civil War. Do you know what they named it?

KEILAR: I suspect they know.

CULLEN: The National Rifleman's Association. For the first 100 years, 150 years, that's all they were about. They're not against the idea. That's their core principle. It's their founding principle.

Talk to any gun owner with their kid. The first thing they do when they hand them a rifle, they don't just hand it to them, they teach them, you've got to learn how to use this properly and safety. Every gun owner believes in the safety concept. That's something they can get behind.

Why are we not talking about it that way with them? Because we're never going to win this by fighting each other. The country's 50/50. That's an unwinnable battle. But finding a way that we both agree on, there is common ground. We need to do -- but there's 50 years of distrust to rebuild.

KEILAR: Yes. Look, this cannot stand. That is what is so clear. And it feels like it's going to. But when is that going to stop? It has to at some point.

Dave, thank you so much, as always, for being with us.

Dave Cullen, we appreciate it.

CULLEN: Thanks very much.

KEILAR: Berman.

BERMAN: Moments ago, Pope Francis sent his condolences to the families here in Uvalde.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): I am heart broken by the massacre at the elementary school in Texas. I pray for the children and the adults who were killed and for their families. It is time to say enough to the indiscriminate trafficking of weapons.

[09:00:01]

Let us all make a commitment so that tragedies like this cannot happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It should not happen again. All the victims here have now been identified. The bodies have been removed from the school behind me. And the families, Brianna, have been notified.

CNN's special live coverage of the tragedy here in Uvalde, Texas, continues right now.