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New Day

Remembering Jose Flores Jr.; Sandy Hook Survivor Speaks About Experience; NRA Convention Goes On; Trump Spoke Approvingly of Hanging Mike Pence. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 26, 2022 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:35]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm John Berman, live in Uvalde, Texas.

Behind me you can see the Robb Elementary School and this memorial that came up overnight. The crosses, one for each of the victims.

One of the 19 children lost here, 10-year-old Jose Flores Jr. The fourth grader described as an amazing kid. The kind of big brother anyone would want.

CNN's Gary Tuchman sat down with his family.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ten-year-old Jose Flores Jr. had a huge smile on his face when he received this honor roll certificate at school on Tuesday. Just a few hours later, the world changed.

This is his mother, father and three siblings.

Jose Flores Sr. went to the hospital hoping his son was a patient there. He says a nurse took him into a hospital chapel.

TUCHMAN (on camera): What did the nurse tell you?

JOSE FLORES SR., FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM JOSE FLORES JR.: That he is -- I mean, as soon as they took me to the room, I already knew what it was about. She didn't have to say much. Because in the way she took me in there, the way she -- have a seat. We want to talk to you. We've got to tell you some things. I mean, I already knew what was -- what was next.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Jose Jr., a loving son and big brother, did not survive the gunman's rampage.

Jose Sr. called his wife Cynthia.

CYNTHIA FLORES, MOTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM JOSE FLORES JR.: And he just said my baby didn't make it.

TUCHMAN: It seemed like a nightmare. Jose Sr. and Cynthia just couldn't comprehend their eldest child was gone. Jose Sr. asked some Texas rangers at the hospital if he could see his son.

J. FLORES: One of the rangers told me -- he came to me, he's like, as a father, I wouldn't let you go back there and see him because he was not recognizable.

TUCHMAN: Jose Jr.'s 5-year-old brother Jayden (ph) took us into his bedroom that he shared with his big brother. On Jose Jr.'s bed, all his favorite stuffed animals from when he was a little boy, and a set of clothes that his parents say he will wear in his casket.

J. FLORES: So, I didn't get to hold him no more. I didn't -- I didn't get to see him, you know. Just at the funeral and it might not be an open casket for the same reason.

TUCHMAN: Jose Jr. wanted to be a police officer when he grew up. He wanted to protect others, especially his baby brother Jace (ph).

C. FLORES: When it was just me and him, I was thinking, he's so good. He's helpful, here around the house. He would just be like my little shadow. Like, he would just be helping me and stuff. But -- with the baby -- he had a thing with babies. Like, my friends' babies. They're -- like, he's just very good with babies. He was always nice.

TUCHMAN (on camera): When Jace grows up, your little baby, what do you tell Jace about his brother Jose?

J. FLORES: He really loved his little brother. He loved him. He was a little helper.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Endrea is nine months younger than Jose Jr.

TUCHMAN (on camera): What did you like most about your brother?

ENDREA FLORES, SISTER OF SHOOTING VICTIM JOSE FLORES JR.: That he would really support me and he would always play with me.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Endrea and Jose Jr. were both in fourth grade in the same school. She lived through the same horror, but was in a different fourth grade classroom.

E. FLORES: There was just a bunch of gunshots going through the windows and doors and a bunch of knocking and banging.

[06:35:07]

TUCHMAN: The emotional challenges are many for this family. They have lost their son and brother, but their memories of a sweet boy who wanted to be a policeman because he wanted to protect others will live on forever.

J. FLORES: He was (INAUDIBLE).

C. FLORES: Yes. Yes.

TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Uvalde, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So, the tragedy here at the Robb Elementary School is the deadliest school shooting in a decade, since the Sandy Hook massacre in Newtown, Connecticut.

Joining me now is Sandy Hook survivor Maggie LaBanca.

[06:40:02]

She was eight years old in December of 2012.

Maggie, thank you so much for being with us today.

MAGGIE LABANCA, SANDY HOOK SURVIVOR: Hi. Thank you for having me here.

BERMAN: It's sad in a way to have to speak with you ten years later. You know what so many of the people here in this town are going through, so many of these kids. You were eight years old at the time. Tell us some of the emotions that some of these kids might be feeling.

LABANCA: Yes. I mean, I'm just -- I'm devastated for that community. It's been ten years for me and my friends since we've heard a gunshot, since we've experienced anything to that degree, but it stayed with us very clearly. And I think that's the thing about trauma and the thing about shootings that people don't really understand is that all of those -- all of those memories, all of those audio noises, all of those quick visions that kind of relate to that day, they stay with you.

I mean, I can't go outside when I hear fireworks. I shutter when there's a closed door. I'm always looking over my back. It's ten years later and I don't feel safe yet and I'm just -- I've broke down knowing that now there's a new group of kids that that's what it is. I mean my life has been defined that I am a survivor of gun violence and that I wake up each day to that reality. And, I mean, that's what it is.

BERMAN: I'm so sorry. I mean, you don't deserve that. Nobody deserves that. At this age -- at that age, at eight years old for you, 10 years old for these kids, how much do you really understand?

LABANCA: I think it -- it took me a bit to understand, you know. I wasn't fully aware of the situation. And I think when you're -- when you're eight, you don't -- you don't know what death is, you don't know the effects of a gun, you don't really know what that is. And I -- that day I lost my neighbor and my best friend, Daniel. He was seven. You know, that was someone I walked to the bus with. I walked home with. There's a trail between our houses. I spent every day with him. So, it was just the fact of losing someone you see every day for no reason. For a preventable reason. Not understanding why and just going through each day with that fear that I could lose someone else. So.

BERMAN: Again, you know, Daniel would be 17 now. You said you walked to the bus with him every day.

I know you're headed off to college. And it's so interesting because you've been talking to prospective roommates in college. Talk to me about those discussions.

LABANCA: Yes. No, so I was thinking, you know -- usually when you're -- it's been difficult for me because usually when you're talking, you're talking to a roommate, the first thing they'll ask you is where are you from? And I'll say I'm from Newtown and that, you know, some of them will say that sounds vaguely familiar to me. They'll think, is there a famous person is there, some event I know? And, no, no, there was a mass shooting where 26 people were killed senselessly. And then that kind of pauses the conversation for a bit.

Sometimes they'll ask me what I like to do. And, you know, I'll kind of tell them my activities. And I'll say, you know, next Friday, instead of going to the beach with my friends, I had to make the decision of running a rally in town and speaking for National Gun Violence Awareness Day. Those are the decisions I make on a daily basis.

And then sometimes, you know, if you talk long enough with a roommate they ask about your sleeping habits and how late do you stay up and, you know, do you leave a light on. And I have to tell them that I have to leave a light on. I have to sleep with some sort of light so there's no dark because I think I see a shooter in the shadows. I have to sleep with a pillow in my -- behind my back because I'm afraid that a shooter is going to get me where I can't see them. Ten years later -- ten years later, I still feel that.

And sometimes I wake up abruptly in the middle of the night because I don't feel that pillow anymore or I have a flashback of something, and it's all very real to me. It's very real to anyone who's gone through a shooting. It doesn't go away. And I don't think that's realized by a lot of people.

BERMAN: I think you're right. I think you're right. I think people don't understand that this is something that you never forget. That never leaves you.

On the other hand, Maggie, I just want you to know that you are an inspiration and your life has made such a difference to so many and will continue to do so.

I thank you for joining us. I thank you for being willing to share your experience with us and with the American people and I want you to have a great time in college.

[06:45:07]

LABANCA: Thank you. Thank you.

BERMAN: Maggie LaBanca. In the wake of the mass shooting here in Uvalde, Texas, the NRA is

still moving forward with its annual meeting in Texas in Houston this weekend, yet the organization says it does not want guns there. We have details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: The NRA is moving ahead with its annual convention this weekend in Texas, just days after a gunman killed 19 children and two teachers in an elementary school in the state. The decision echoing the lobby's move 23 years ago when right after the Columbine massacre it still moved forward with its summit in Denver, and undeterred by the new era of gun violence.

[06:50:06]

NRA president and actor, Charleston Heston, delivered this famous speech the following year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLESTON HESTON, NRA PRESIDENT AND ACTOR: So, as we set out this year to defeat the divisive forces that would take freedom away, I want to say those fighting words, for everyone within the sound of my voice to hear and to heed, and especially for you, Mr. Gore, from my cold, dead hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, let's bring in CNN's Sunlen Serfaty.

Important to note here that former President Trump is actually expected to speak at this event, but also that we understand there is a no guns allowed policy.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, there is, because the former president will be there, the Secret Service, they have banned guns from anyone attending this event over the weekend.

Now, Trump will be headlining the conference tomorrow with a big speech. And since the shooting he doubled down on what he thinks is the importance of still speaking. He says, Americans don't need politics at this moment.

Now, there are some other big Republican names scheduled to attend and appear as well. Texas Senator Ted Cruz, Texas Governor Greg Abbott. And Abbott was asked yesterday if he would still speaking, and he was somewhat noncommittal. He says he's living in the moment and his heart, his head, his body, he says, is in Uvalde right now.

You know, Democrats are saying now is not the time for an event like this, so close in proximity, so close in time to the shooting, and they are calling for the NRA to cancel. This is so similar to the 1999 Columbine shooting when the NRA was also called to cancel its event days after the shooting, but they did not. And the NRA, Brianna, similarly right now, they are recommitting in the wake of this shooting, they say the event will go on as scheduled, go on as planned. And, notably, only about 300 miles away from the shooting.

KEILAR: Yes, it is not far.

Sunlen, thank you so much for that report.

As he watched the Capitol riot unfold on television, then President Donald Trump is said to have reacted approvingly to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What the January 6th committee has learned about Trump's reaction to that. We're going to talk to Maggie Haberman about her new reporting, next.

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[06:55:40]

KEILAR: CNN has learned that a former aide to Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told the House January 6th committee that then President Donald Trump suggested he approved of these chants that I'm sure you're familiar with now of "hang Mike Pence" that were coming from people on Capitol Hill, rioters there, during the insurrection.

Now, "The New York Times" is now reporting that multiple witnesses told the committee that Meadows told his colleagues that Trump complained that Pence was being whisked to safety. Meadows then said that Trump had said something to the effect of, maybe Pence should be hanged.

Joining me now, CNN political analyst and senior political correspondent for "The New York Times," Maggie Haberman, who broke this story.

Maggie, you do note in your story that it's not clear what tone Trump was said to have used, but nonetheless I think it's important to put this reporting in the context of what we know about how Trump felt about Pence at the time.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's exactly right, Brianna. Look, we know that Trump was furious with Pence. You know, I'm not sure bluntly how much it matters what the tone was, but we just wanted to make that clear for readers. We know at the time that Trump was venting to aides that Pence was not doing what he wanted, which was, you know, exerting a power that Pence had told Trump he didn't have to interfere in the certification of the Electoral College vote in Congress that day. And Trump tweeted at 2:24 p.m. that day that he was angry at Pence, that Pence had -- he was denouncing Pence for not doing this.

So, it's not hugely surprising, Brianna, that Trump said that and yet it is still pretty stunning.

KEILAR: So, a lawyer for Mark Meadows said he has every reason to believe that this account of what Meadows said is untrue, but it -- there are multiple sources either telling the committee this or confirming it, right?

HABERMAN: Yes, they're -- the committee has developed information from multiple witnesses over the course of its -- of its work. You know, it has not said exactly who those witnesses are. Meadows' lawyer's statement, I would also note, is not, Brianna, a full-throated denial. It's, I have every reason to believe that that's not true. This is something that is either true or not true and it's notable that that is not what's being said.

KEILAR: And, Maggie, you report the committee has also gathered testimony that Mr. Meadows used the fireplace in his office to burn documents. Can you tell us more about this?

HABERMAN: Yes, so the committee has heard from, again, multiple witnesses that Meadows would use the fireplace in the office to get rid of pieces of paper. Exactly what he was getting rid of, we don't know. But, Brianna, this is a pattern in this White House of -- of inappropriate handling of documents. I think the committee is trying to figure out what documents those were. You know, this apparently was not, you know -- this was -- this was -- I don't know how -- that it was widely known, but it was not something that was, I think, relegated to just a small group of people.

I would note that Mark Meadows' lawyer did not respond to our questions about that reporting at all.

KEILAR: What do these findings mean, Maggie, for the committee's work?

HABERMAN: So, I think two things. I think in terms of what Trump's mindset was, the committee has been working very hard not just to reconstruct, you know, every minute that they can of that, I believe it was 186 minutes on January 6th, but to try to construct the lead up to it and what Trump's mindset was, what Trump was thinking, whether, you know, Trump was making an effort to try to, you know, see the results that ended up happening, you know, with the -- with rioters storming the Capitol. So that's one.

And then in terms of the Meadows piece of it, on the documents, there is this question of, a, you know, what the people in the White House were doing around, you know, possible planning to try to subvert the election results, what happened to documents in their possession. Obviously, fighting over documents and getting ahold of them has been a huge concern for this committee and they've been stymied at various points by various witnesses, one of whom has been Meadows. Although Meadows, I will say, turned over many, many hundreds of text messages that has also guided the committee's work before he then stopped cooperating and didn't give them anymore.

KEILAR: Maggie, thank you so much for sharing this new reporting with us. We do appreciate it.

And NEW DAY continues right now.

[07:00:00]

BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Thursday, May 26th. I'm John Berman, live in Uvalde, Texas. Brianna Keilar is in Washington this morning.