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Terror Expert on U.S. Gun Violence Epidemic; Trump Backs Cheney's Opponent; Covid Cases Rise in U.S.; Mothers Donate Breast Milk; Celtics Hold off the Heat. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 30, 2022 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Seeing is kind of the dark side of American exceptionalism.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. I mean the Americans think of themselves as an exceptional nation. And in many ways they are. But they're also exceptional in the likelihood that they will be killed by a fellow American with a gun and the amount of gun ownership in this country is, you know, the highest in the world. Only -- the next country is Yemen, which has been involved in a civil war for, you know, for decades now.

So, we are exceptional, and we are exceptional in these -- you know, I mean, I was -- in the lead in to the show I -- you know, when I wrote this piece a few days ago, there were 214 mass shootings. And now there are 225, I mean, just in the few days that have elapsed. So -- and there has been 27 shootings causing injuries or death at schools since the beginning of the year, according to "Education Week."

So, this is not normal.

KEILAR: It's not normal. It's becoming usual.

BERGEN: Yes.

KEILAR: It shouldn't be usual. You say it's a national security issue. Can you explain that?

BERGEN: Well, you know, I mean, we treat terrorism as a national security issue. And in 2020 there were more than 19,000 gun deaths and only four deaths caused by terrorists. And each of those deaths, of course, is a tragedy, but, I mean, let's -- we associate terrorism with something that really is a national security problem and yet somehow we don't put this in the bucket of being really a national security issue, and really a public health issue.

KEILAR: I also think of the way terrorism is approached by law enforcement, right? I used to think that TSA was such a line of defense before I learned about how terrorism is combatted. I mean, TSA is like a last-ditch effort, right, in a way? You're -- if you're thinking of an airport situation, a 9/11 kind of scenario. There's so much intel that has to be looked at ahead of time. When you're looking at, say, a mass shooting situation, intel on the

suspect, understanding information about them, are you surprised that there just isn't a lot of that information that gets where it needs to go before someone ever even purchases a weapon or moves from purchasing to action?

BERGEN: Well, you know, we know from -- I mean, unfortunately, because people have been studying school shootings for a long time, the FBI in particular, there's something called leakage. And leakage is, anybody involved in a school shooting usually tells peers or something, maybe family members, sometimes complete strangers, and we saw that in the Texas case to some degree. But, you know, it didn't rise to the level of attracting attention from law enforcement.

In the Buffalo case, you know, the state police had -- you know, he'd made some threatening statements, the terrorist involved in the Buffalo attack, but he didn't -- you know, he wasn't subject to a red flag law, which I, you know, even conservatives agree we should have -- we should have red flag laws on the books and we should enforce them because if somebody's making threats that come to the attention of law enforcement, why should they be able to buy a semi-automatic weapon?

And, you know, my in-laws in Louisiana go deer hunting. They don't use AR-15s. You know, they're very -- they have a lot of guns and they're very conscious of gun safety. There's really no business for an AR-15 to be out on the street. It has one purpose, to kill as many people as possible, as efficiently as possible, and as quickly as possible.

KEILAR: How do you address that, the access to guns, even access to AR-15s, because I don't see that going away --

BERGEN: Yes.

KEILAR: With the protections of gun ownership that are protected in the Constitution?

BERGEN: Well, you know, 19 states have red flag laws on the books, and D.C. also. So, you know, if you -- if you're making threats, if you come to the attention of law enforcement, you can't buy these. You shouldn't be able to buy these kinds of weapons. If you have them, they should be taken away from you.

And I think those laws may expand. I mean, after Parkland, you know, Florida put on a -- put a red flag laws on its books. So, it's not impossible.

I mean, I agree with you, I mean, a complete assault weapons ban seems unlikely, but maybe you should raise the age. Why should you be able to buy these when you're 18? At least maybe 21. There are some common sense readily (ph) incremental things that could be undone politically.

And the time, of course, is now. I mean if you wait another week or two weeks the story dissipates and, unfortunately, the way the politics of this country is organized, you know, it's hard to get these kinds of things done.

KEILAR: Yes, our broad attention span, right, is something to behold, unfortunately.

Peter, thanks so much for putting this into perspective. We appreciate it.

BERGEN: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Donald Trump clearly not a fan of Liz Cheney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: What she represents, she really represents despicable things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: The former president in Wyoming urging voters to send Cheney packing.

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: Also ahead, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband charged with DUI.

Plus, some big news in Boston. The Heat can't take out the Celtics. Now Boston is back in the finals after a 12-year drought.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:39:03]

AVLON: After several Trump-backed candidates went down to defeat, ex- President Trump is now taking aim at one of its strongest critics ahead of the Wyoming primaries. We're talking, of course, about Congresswoman Liz Cheney. Now, Trump is throwing his support behind Cheney's Republican challenger, Harriet Hageman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I think this is the most important election that we have right here. Right here. The state of Wyoming. But we need you to vote that crazy rhino -- and that's what she's become beyond anybody's expectation, out of office.

It's not so much as the vote raising one hand, it's really the symbol of what she represents. She really represents despicable things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: The most important election in America.

Joining us now is CNN political commentator and host of the "You Decide" podcast, Errol Louis.

Errol, always good to see you.

[06:40:00]

So, look, Wyoming, it's a conservative state. Trump is popular there. GOP leadership lining up behind Cheney's challenger, which is a stunning betrayal of House decorum. But no Cheney has lost a Wyoming race in 40 years. And Trump has seen some recent losses.

So, how do you see this all playing out?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there are a couple of different scenarios.

John, good morning.

One is that because elections are about the future and not the past, voters are going to be thinking about inflation. They're going to be thinking about the pandemic. They're going to be thinking about the future of the country, rather than what Donald Trump wants to make this all about, which is the big lie and the fact that he lost the 2020 election. Saying that he somehow won the 2020 election seems to be a litmus test for him, and he is loosing in state after state by insisting on that very non-rational criteria.

One scenario that I think is very likely is that Wyoming's particular local rules allow Democrats or independents or anybody else to register up to the day before the primary and participate in the Republican primary. Liz Cheney, with a campaign account of about $10 million, can mobilize a lot of those people and it's a pretty easy way to deal a setback to former President Trump if Democrats choose to do so. I think that's a very possible scenario when the primary rolls around in August.

AVLON: That is possible. Not a ton of Democrats in Wyoming. But western conservatives are famously independent, of course.

Now, in a recent campaign ad, Cheney made it clear that she's not going to back down from Trump.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): There are some things you can count on. When I know something is wrong, I will say so. I won't waiver or back down. I won't surrender to pressure or intimidation. I know where to draw the line, and I know that some things aren't for sale. That's the code of the west, and that's what Wyoming voters deserve and expect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Here's what's interesting to me. Cheney has been outspoken in taking on Trump. Now, compare that to like Georgia's Governor Kemp, who was very much focused on his own record and dismissing Trump but avoiding taking him on directly. He won. What do you think about Cheney's tactic of going straight at the big lie and Donald Trump?

LOUIS: You know, there's no getting around it in this case because she's had such a high profile level of opposition. It does also, though, raise an interesting question, John, which is that, you know, does Trumpism really survive without Trump himself? And the reality is, Liz Cheney can say truthfully that she voted with -- when, you know, Trump was president, she voted with Donald Trump 93 percent of the time, which is a lot more than a lot of other Republicans can say.

So, you know, to the extent that she's got bona fides that cannot be challenged, both because of her paternal lineage and because of her actual voting record just a couple of years ago, I think she's in a position to really try and take him on, but she really doesn't have any choice. I mean, you know, look, she's on the January 6th commission.

AVLON: Yes.

LOUIS: You know, she's been one of the Republicans to stand up and say, we have to investigate this insurrection, this attack on the Capitol and on democracy itself. Trump will never forgive her for that.

AVLON: No. And Trump -- and calling the January 6th insurrection a hoax at his speech in Wyoming the other night.

Here's the other side of the coin, though. A lot of House leadership, in particular House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, making accommodations to Trump, right, trying to placate him, apiece him to get the benefit of his bounce.

McCarthy made a virtual appearance at the Wyoming rally in a pre- recorded video, but I want you to listen to the crowd's reaction as the leader introduces himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN McCarthy (R-CA): I'm Kevin McCarthy, and I'm the Republican leader of the United States House of Representatives. I'm from Bakersfield, California. And many of the challenges we're addressing in our central valley are similar to the most important issues facing you in Wyoming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: They're not shouting lou (ph) there, Errol. What do you --

LOUIS: No, that's true.

AVLON: What do you make of the audience's not so warm response to McCarthy and what that says about his real chances of being speaker when the votes come down?

LOUIS: McCarthy is going to learn what Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus and any number of mainstream Republicans had to learn the hard way, which is that in trying to reconcile the responsible Republicans with the radicals, when Trump is involved, slavish obedience to Trump cannot be overlooked. I mean you -- you can't reason with it, you can't negotiate around it, you can't compromise with it. Either you're all in or you're the enemy. That's how the Trump radicals have treated a lot of candidates. And that's just -- that's kind of just where he is, you know? If he wants to control that increasingly fractious caucus, he's going to try and steer a course that many, many talented Republican politicians have failed to steer. And I think -- I don't necessarily like his chances, you know?

[06:45:03]

It's going to be a very, very hard job for the next Republican leader of that conference, whether it's McCarthy or anybody else.

AVLON: That, I think, is exactly right.

Errol Louis, great to see you, my friend. Be well.

LOUIS: Thank you. You too.

AVLON: All right.

Americans gathering today as the United States marks Memorial Day weekend and the unofficial start of summer. Why health officials say rising Covid cases are a major concern. That's next.

KEILAR: Plus, parents desperate as the nation's baby formula shortage continues. How one woman is doing her part to feed as many babies as she can, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AVLON: As Covid cases and hospitalizations creep up across the nation, there's a real concern that we could see a summer surge for the third year in a row.

[06:50:05]

Let's bring CNN's Jacqueline Howard, who's been tracking all those developments.

Jacqueline.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: John, that's right, there is this concern that we could see a rise in cases following Memorial Day weekend. And that's because we've seen that before, right, with -- following holidays we have seen an increase in cases. So, U.S. officials are closely monitoring the Covid-19 data. And here's where we are now. Currently, the United States is averaging around 105,000 cases per day. And as you see on this map, cases are leveling off in the Northeast, but rising elsewhere across the country.

Now, with hospitalizations we're seeing increases nationwide, as you see on the map here. And in the coming days, officials will be watching cases and they'll watch to see if there are subsequent rises in hospitalizations.

And then, sadly, John, one last data point here. The United States is still averaging more than 300 deaths per day tied to Covid-19. So, sadly, that's where we are now.

And as you see on this graphic, when it comes to cases, we are seeing, at the end of the graphic here for May 30th, a slight uptick in cases already. So, the question here, will that uptick continue following Memorial Day weekend and going into the summer?

John.

AVLON: Not out of the woods yet.

Jacqueline Howard, thank you very much.

KEILAR: Nestle says tens of thousands of pounds of baby formula were sent to stores this weekend, the good news. The formula was flown in from Ramstein Air Base in Germany just last week. But while parents are waiting for shelves to become full again, some moms are giving of themselves.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has more about these incredible moms.

Elizabeth, tell us about them.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, they really are incredible. I mean talk about giving of yourselves. These -- what these women are doings is amazing.

I want to introduce you to three of them. The first one is Marie Malon (ph). She is actually a nurse in Oregon, and she is nursing her six month old baby and donating milk that she has sort of extra to a bank. She posted on Instagram her trip to the blank. In one day, she donated more than a gallon of milk.

And Hillary Demin (ph), she's a filmmaker and a professor in Pittsburgh. She's mom to one-year-old Remy (ph). Now, she's done nursing. She's not nursing Remy anymore. But she is going to pump for six more months just so that she can donate milk to mothers and fathers who cannot find formula on shelves. It is a real commitment to do that.

And, finally, Cori Callahan. Cori is the mother of three beautiful daughters. She stopped nursing the youngest a year and a half ago. So, she hasn't had milk in a year and a half and she is trying to reestablish her milk supply, to bring it back, which is a huge commitment, so that she can donate to women in her area in Missouri. Again, that is a -- that is a huge thing to bring back a milk supply that you haven't had for a year and a half.

We talked to Corey about why she's doing it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORI CALLAHAN, MOTHER: There are so many different ways that you can show love to people. And like what better way to help a mama feed her baby. This is just kind of a way where I can, you know, give something to these babies and help moms out and show the love of Christ. And it's kind of just a whole thing for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Now, nursing moms or moms who used to nurse, they know what a pain it is to pump. It is a huge time commitment. And these women are doing it for other babies, to help other families get through this crisis.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, unbelievable commitment of time. It is amazing what they're doing.

Elizabeth, thank you so much.

Thieves stealing a $2 million 18 carat pure gold tabernacle from a catholic church. Hear how they did it.

AVLON: Plus, we'll speak live with the doctor who's been treating the victims and survivors of that shoot scooting in Texas. Why he says he feels guilty. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:58:15]

AVLON: The Boston Celtics holding off the Miami Heat, will play against the Golden State Warriors in the NBA finals.

Carolyn Manno has more in the "Bleacher Report."

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hi. Happy Memorial Day.

AVLON: Hey. Great to see you.

MANNO: I'm so glad to be with you because I know you're a huge sports fan and we have so much to cover.

AVLON: We've got a lot.

MANNO: You're talking about the NBA. Fans could not ask for a better matchup here. You've got a young Celtics team in their prime. You've got the warriors trying to extend that dynasty window just a little bit further. And coming off a game six loss, the Celtics jumped out to an early lead on the road and never let go against Miami.

Celtics superstar Jayson Tatum knocked down a three to beat the buzzer, put Boston up by 12 in the fourth. But this was a back and forth affair. Tatum had 26 points. Jimmy Butler would not let the Heat fizzle. After a 47-point effort to force game seven, never left the court in another great performance, put up 35 points before ultimately running out of gas. He had a chance for a three with 15 seconds left to give the Heat their first lead of the game, went for the jugular, went for the three, came up too short. Celtics win by four. Butler telling Tatum afterwards, this is your time, as the Celtics are back in the NBA finals for the first time since 2010. Gabe Kapler says he may pause his anthem protest for today's Memorial

Day matchup in Philadelphia. On Friday, in light of the recent school shooting in Texas, the San Francisco Giants manager said he would not be on the field for the national anthem until he felt better about the direction of our country. Yesterday, he said Memorial Day deserves special attention and that he will decide what makes sense in the moment for him.

To a scary scene now from the Monaco Grand Prix. Mick Schumacher, the son of legendary Formula One driver Michael Schumacher, spinning out and slamming into the wall. His car splitting in half. Thankfully, he was able to walk away from the crash. Mexico's Sergio Perez taking the checkered flag at F1's crown jewel, his third career victory for Red Bull.

[07:00:04]

An incredible race after a significant rain delay. And more than 325,000 fans turning out for Sunday's Indy 500.