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New Day
Stephen Gutowski on Gun Reform; Russian War Crimes Probe; Giants Manager Protests Anthem. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired May 30, 2022 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[08:30:11]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Democratic lawmakers offering cautious optimism. The current bipartisan efforts to reach a middle ground on gun safety could finally yield results.
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SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): There's talks in Washington, and they never succeed. But there are more Republicans interested in talking about finding a path forward this time than I have ever seen since Sandy Hook. And while, in the end, I may end up being heartbroken, I am at the table in a more significant way right now with Republicans and Democrats than ever before. Certainly many more Republicans willing to talk right now than were willing to talk after Sandy Hook.
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KEILAR: All right, let's talk now with -- about how the gun community is reacting to this with Stephen Gutowski. He is the founder of the website, The Reload, which reports on firearm policy and politics. He's also a gun safety instructor.
Stephen, thanks so much for being with us.
I do want to know, what do gun owners think about these efforts? And I want to make a distinction between the NRA and gun owners. What do gun owners think?
STEPHEN GUTOWSKI, FOUNDER AND REPORTER, THERELOAD.COM: Well, you know, certainly gun owners are not necessarily a monolith, right? There's somewhere between 43 and 45 percent of the country report having a gun in their home. It's between 30 and 35 percent that report personally owning a gun. So that's, you know, about 120 plus million Americans who have guns. And so you're going to have certainly a variety of opinions on the topic.
But I think the most politically engaged gun rights activists are not really changing their opinion on solutions to the issue. You know, at the NRA annual meeting, which is happening here in Houston this weekend, you didn't see any significant change in policy positions that were put forward to address the problem. You're mostly focused on school security and even potentially arming teachers is a -- is something that's put forward, or enforcing current law to a better degree to try and stop somebody who has warning signs or has committed crimes in their past from being able to obtain guns in the first place.
JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: So, you mentioned the NRA convention. Obviously, it's been a long time since the NRA was backing reasonable gun safety measures, as they did in the 1930s, for example, with the machine gun ban. But this weekend, former President Trump, GOP leaders, they're all rejecting these bipartisan efforts.
I want you to listen to what Texas Congressman Dan Crenshaw told CNN about universal background checks.
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REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): People have to understand what universal background checks mean. That means that I can no longer sell a gun to my friend. If my neighbor, let's say her husband is gone for the week and she wants to borrow my gun, that would make us both felons. That's the problem with universal background checks. And the people who are least likely to adhere to universal background check are the criminals who intend harm.
So, again, it's an outcome problem. I don't think they would have the outcome people think they would have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Now, Stephen, I want to contrast that, which is a thoughtful opposition to background checks, with the overwhelming popularity of that position. Presumably among some gun owners as well, if you look at the data.
Overall, 81 percent of Americans told Pew they support background checks. That's not only 92 percent of Democrats, but 70 percent of Republicans. If a position has 81 percent support of the American people, don't you think that would be reflected among some gun owners and wouldn't that be a place to look for some common ground on gun safety reforms?
GUTOWSKI: Yes, I mean, certainly there are gun owners who do support those policies and other policies that have been put forward. One thing I would note as to why you don't see a lot of movement on this at the national level, and you see a lot of Republicans opposing it, despite those poll numbers, is that the policy hasn't fared very well when put up on ballot initiatives. There were ballot initiatives in Nevada and Maine back in 2016. Nevada did pass theirs, but only by a very slim margin. And Maine didn't succeed. So, there's sort of a disconnect, perhaps, between the polling and voting on that particular policy. And, you know, a lot of these Republicans who oppose that bill that those policies have not been voted out of office, and -- which is, at the end of the day, what, you know, really matters when it comes to, you know, political power.
KEILAR: Stephen, we really appreciate you joining us and sharing your perspective. Stephen Gutowski, thank you.
AVLON: Thank you very much.
KEILAR: Ukraine's president visiting the front lines, making his first foray outside the capital region since Russian's invasion.
AVLON: And, new information on the Russian brigade accused of carrying out war crimes in Bucha. A CNN exclusive investigation, that's ahead.
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[08:39:02]
A CNN exclusive investigation into alleged war crimes in Ukraine. The images from Bucha shocked and disgusted the world. Now we're learning more about the Russian brigade that prosecutors believe is responsible.
CNN's Melissa Bell is in southeastern Ukraine with this story.
Melissa, what can you tell us?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, the military sources here, military Ukrainian intelligence sources have been telling us that they understand that this very brigade, the one that prosecutors now believe was responsible for that reign of terror during the Russian occupation of Bucha, is fighting even now in eastern Ukraine. And remember that the point about what we're learning about these men and exactly what happened to the north of Kyiv during that Russian occupation matters because we're discovering it even as the war continues to rage on.
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BELL (voice over): Russian tanks entering the village of Lapifka (ph) in late February. Now in charge here of life and of death.
[08:40:05]
Six weeks later, now back in control of the village, Ukrainian authorities begin counting the dead.
I can't look, says one mother.
It was only after the tanks had withdrawn that Ukrainian prosecutors were able to start piecing tougher what had happened. They now suspect these men of crimes in violation of the rules and customs of war.
RUSLAN KRAVCHENKO, Ukrainian REGIONAL PROSECUTOR (through translator): On this street, nine soldiers of the 64th brigade imprisoned unarmed civilians. They detained and tortured them for ten days, inflicting bodily harm and carried out mock executions.
BELL: We wanted to see for ourselves where some of these alleged crimes might have been committed. Going door to door with pictures of the soldiers, we meet Andre (ph), who recognizes one of them.
BELL (on camera): Is it locked?
BELL (voice over): He leads us down to a cellar where he says Russian soldiers tried to kill a group of men and women who had been hiding. They used grenades and rifles, he says, but the civilians managed to survive by heading further into the darkness.
BELL (on camera): This is the scene of just one of the alleged crimes of the men of the 64th brigade. It is littered with cigarettes and bullet casings.
BELL (voice over): Back in Lipifka (ph), we show Mikkola Znak (ph), a local resident, a picture of commander Vasil Lidvenjenko (ph). He recognizes him immediately and invites us into what's left of his home.
He and his family hid in the woods, he says, while his home was destroyed by the Russian artillery that killed his neighbor. When he tried to come back, he says the commander seemed surprised.
He said, what are you doing here? You should have been burnt alive.
Mikkola still doesn't know why he decided to let him live.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rape enough people, torture enough people, for what? Because they wanted scare civilians. Scare our citizens of towns, villages, cities.
BELL: After withdrawing from the Bucha area, the brigade's men were promoted by Moscow. The Kremlin denies any involvement in the mass killings.
The 64th brigade was created after the Georgian war, according to Ukrainian intelligence.
MYKOLA KRASNY, Ukrainian MILITARY INTELLIGENCE: The soldiers of this brigade, he says, were noted for their robberies and rapes. But instead of bringing order to the brigade, the Russian command armed it, he explains, with modern weapons and sent it into Ukraine.
Beyond working out exactly what the Russian soldiers who occupy this area north of Kyiv might have been responsible for, the big question for Ukrainian prosecutors now is where they are.
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BELL: Of course, a question that is of particular concern to military intelligence. If, as they believe, that 64th brigade is now fighting in the east, the question is, if they get pushed back, what will they leave behind? For now, though, the question is very much of the Russian advances and the tactical advantage they seem to have on the field. Even now we're learning of the possible fall of Severa (ph) Donetsk, one of those towns that's been on the front line these last few days. But, bear in mind, Brianna, this is a front line that now stretches all the way to the south to where I'm standing in Zaporizhzhia now. Those Russian-controlled areas that are now being locked down, that border hardened. Here where I'm standing, it was a cruise missile that hit just four days ago. Three of them hit the town of Zaporizhzhia. One of them intercepted.
But a reminder of, this is a front line that -- of the fact that this is a front line now being bitterly fought over even as it hardens.
Brianna.
KEILAR: Yes, are they doing, in the Donbas, what they did around Kyiv? And there's no reason to believe they aren't at this point.
Melissa, thank you so much for that essential reporting. We do appreciate it.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband arrested for a DUI following a car crash. We'll have new details ahead.
And thieves steal an irreplaceable $2 million tabernacle from a catholic church. How they used power tools to do it.
AVLON: But first, join us in recounting the life of America's first celebrity chef, Julia Child. The new CNN film "Julia."
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JULIA CHILD, CELEBRITY CHEF: Hello, I'm Julia Child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julia was more than a cook. She was a cultural force.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Julia was a pop icon.
CHILD: Julia Child presents the chicken sisters!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today you have rock star chefs. Julia was the first.
JOHNNY CARSON, TALK SHOW HOST: I think I love you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She absolutely expanded the possibilities of what women could do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julia really paved the way for this incredible moment of food and pop culture, making this very domestic profession something extremely popular.
[08:45:06]
CHILD: We were ripe for a change, and there I was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether you cooked or didn't cook, people would just watch her for fun. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were mesmerized, spellbound by what she was
saying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She just seemed so unpretentious that you thought, if she could do it, you could do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The delicious life of America's first celebrity chef.
CHILD: Bon appetit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Julia," a CNN film, premiers tonight at 8:00 on CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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KEILAR: Time now for "5 Things to Know for Your New Day."
The Justice Department launching a review of the police response to the elementary school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, as patients are outraged over officers waiting 75 minutes to enter the classroom and shoot the gunman.
[08:50:07]
AVLON: And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband facing DUI charges. Eighty-two-year-old Paul Pelosi was arrested Saturday night in northern California after he was involved in a car crash.
KEILAR: The NYPD says no shots were fired during a disturbance at the Barclays Center. More than a dozen people, though, were hurt when they fled what they thought was gunfire.
AVLON: And Mexico is bracing for Hurricane Agatha. That's the first of the eastern Pacific season. Forecasters expect the storm to keep building until it makes landfall tonight along the southern coast.
KEILAR: And the NYPD says thieves stole a $2 million 18 karat pure gold tabernacle from a catholic church in Brooklyn, using power tools to forcefully cut open the church's altar and they also decapitated several angel statues in the process. That tabernacle dates back to the 1890s.
AVLON: :And those are the "5 Things to Know for Your New Day." More on these stories all day on CNN and cnn.com. And don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning. Go to cnn.com/5things.
KEILAR: San Francisco Giants' manager Gabe Kapler protesting the national anthem in the wake of the Uvalde massacre. A mixed reaction pouring in.
AVLON: And we'll go to the White House this morning as President Biden prepares to honor the nation's fallen heroes on this Memorial Day.
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[08:55:48]
AVLON: So, San Francisco Giants Manager Gabe Kapler says he intends to forego the pregame national anthem in protest of the recent mass shootings in Uvalde, Texas, that claimed the lives of 19 children and two teachers.
Take a listen.
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GABE KAPLER, SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS MANAGER: I don't plan on coming out for the anthem going forward until I feel like there's -- I feel better about the direction of our country. So, that will be the step. I don't -- I don't expect it to move the needle, necessarily. It's just something that I feel strongly enough about to take that step.
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AVLON: Joining me now is the host of "Naked with Cari Champion," and former ESPN anchor, Cari Champion.
Cari, it's great to see you.
So, look, this is one of those protests that is clearly from the heart.
CARI CHAMPION, HOST, "NAKED WITH CARI CHAMPION": Right.
AVLON: It's an urgent issue.
CHAMPION: Yes.
AVLON: But it seems like he's kind of leading with his chin. San Francisco's manager saying he's not even going to show up for the anthem. And there he said, you know, this might not move the needle. And now CNN is learning he might not even go through with it. He might suspend it for Memorial Day.
So, what's your sense of how effective this is going to be?
CHAMPION: Well, I think he knew that actually saying those words, writing about it on his blog post initially, wouldn't move the needle, as he said, but you have to look at the context because baseball, especially when Colin Kaepernick began the protest, was very adamant about not joining and they didn't want to talk about it. Managers looked away. Players didn't want to be involved. If I had to look at all the major sports, baseball has been the last to come around when it comes to social justice and its players. So, not only is this a form of, I'm protesting what's happening in this country, because this is justice, right, this is a manager. That's unheard of. And they usually -- they usually all stick together. It's a boys club, if you will, in a lot of ways.
AVLON: Yes. CHAMPION: And whether he does it today or not, I think that we need to take a minute and say, I think Colin was up to something.
AVLON: Oh, yes. True.
CHAMPION: He was up to something.
AVLON: That's a -- that's a -- that's a very fair takeaway.
CHAMPION: Sure.
AVLON: Look, you make the point that managers are kind of a boys club. And there's not unanimity here.
I want to play you Tony La Russa, maybe an outlier himself, who says he agrees with the underlying idea but not the execution.
CHAMPION: OK.
AVLON: Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY LA RUSSA, MANAGER, CHICAGO WHITE SOX: Where I disagree is that the flag and the anthem have -- are not appropriate places to try to voice your objection. You know, I think you go directly to what the cause that really bothers you about the direction of the country.
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AVLON: So, aside from the perfectly placed Italian beef chyron there, what's your take on La Russa's point?
CHAMPION: Look, I think he's off. I think that's the point of a protest. You protest how you want. You don't let anyone tell you how to do it.
I think, unfortunately, it can be both. You can protest what's going on in this country and still respect the men and women who served this country. It doesn't have to be either/or. And that is the way in which he is posing it.
I think it's ridiculous when people tell you how to protest. That's, in fact, the opposite of what it is for. As he said so eloquently, and that would be Gabe, he said, I learned to stand for the pledge of allegiance when I as a kid. That -- but my father, who was also someone who was -- considered himself an activist in form and fashion, said, if you're not happy, then don't stand. If you don't believe in what's happening in this country, then don't stand. That's a complete form of protest.
AVLON: Proto (ph) Kaepernick.
Well, let me just show you those -- some teams are approaching it in a different way.
CHAMPION: Sure.
AVLON: So, I was really struck by, for example, the Miami Heat. The announcer saying, call your senator, having a moment of silence. My Yankees and the Rays, they put out on their platforms, they said, we are going to devote our coverage on our platforms to the cost of gun violence, raising awareness.
It's another way of doing it, right?
CHAMPION: Yes.
AVLON: It's not an open-ended, you know, I'm not going to --
CHAMPION: No. No, no, no, that's not what we do in this country.
AVLON: What is not?
CHAMPION: And so we can decide how we want to protest, when we want to protest.
AVLON: But what do you think is more effective? Not -- not -- not the multiplicity (ph).
CHAMPION: I've got to be honest with you, all things work. At this moment, we're fed up. And so you're going to see people speak out in different ways. And we're all fed up. You're fed up. You're covering this. You're tired of watching this. It's exhausting. It's heavy on our spirits. People can express themselves in different ways. It doesn't mean that Gabe Kapler isn't calling his local official and asking for them to do something.
[09:00:01]
What he's saying is, for me, right now, I'm going to do something that's unheard of in baseball. This is the first time you've ever seen something like this.
And whether he goes through with it or not, it was bold for him to do it, because if you step outside the lines, people get upset.
AVLON: Certainly bold.
CHAMPION: Yes.
AVLON: It's getting attention. There's a lot of different ways to be heartbroken right now.
CHAMPION: That's true.
AVLON: And to try to turn that into constructive action.
Cari Champion, thank you very much.
CHAMPION: Thank you.
AVLON: CNN's coverage continues right now.
