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Supreme Court Clerks Asked for Phone Records in Leak Probe; Schools Across U.S. Intensifying Security in Wake of Massacre; Biden Pins Hopes for Gun Control on 'Rational Republicans'; Biden to Meet with Fed Chief to Discuss Inflation; Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R-GA) is Interviewed about Prospects of Gun Control Legislation. Aired 6-6:30a et

Aired May 31, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Tuesday, May 31. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

[05:59:28]

And this morning, we have a CNN exclusive. We have learned the Supreme Court is taking new, unprecedented steps to search for the person who leaked the draft Supreme Court abortion opinion that seeks to overturn Roe versus Wade.

According to three sources, Supreme Court officials are telling law clerks, Supreme Court clerks, to provide cell phone records, while also requiring them to sign affidavits. Nothing like this has happened before. We are told that some clerks are so alarmed, they are exploring seeking counsel.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in CNN's Joan Biskupic with this exclusive reporting. Joan, tell us what you're learning.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT CORRESPONDENT: Sure. First of all, remember, this is the most important case of this term, most important case in many years, potential to roll back a half century of abortion rights, privacy rights.

Midway through the negotiations over this case, a draft document was leaked, as we all know, and it was leaked from last February. So not only did the public see where the court was headed to roll back Roe v. Wade, but also, it so seriously disrupted negotiations among the justices in terms of where they were actually going to head by the end of June.

Chief Justice John Roberts launched an unprecedented investigation four weeks ago -- four weeks ago today. Apparently, that has made absolutely insufficient progress, I would say.

And they have taken this new step to have clerks sign affidavits. I'm not sure exactly of the wording. But there would be denial of any responsibility. And also starting to lay the groundwork for obtaining cell phone data. Now, I should tell you that this private draft went to not only the

nine justices, their law clerks, each has four apiece. And then probably about a dozen other people in the Supreme Court building. It goes both electronically and hand delivered to the chambers.

You know, a lot of more people could have had this inside the courthouse. But then also, if anybody brought it home, the potential for other people obtaining it is great.

So, they're focusing on law clerks right now. But we don't know, at least from the outside whether, you know, it would definitely be a law clerk; it would be somebody else, a full-time employee; anybody else who came upon this. Unlikely a justice.

KEILAR: Nonetheless, law clerks are now going to have this -- what some of them clearly feel is an invasion of privacy.

BISKUPIC: That's absolutely right. In fact, that's how we found out about it, Brianna. Some of them consulting, you know, former law professors, friends. People saying, you know, what do we do here?

Because think of all of the information on your cell phone. And we're not sure at this point if it's going after just cell -- telephone data or text images, everything else you could possibly have on there. Your life is on your cell phone.

And even if the marshal, a woman by the name of Gail Curley, a former colonel in the Army who -- and a lawyer herself, who's conducting this investigation, even if she says, Look, we're only going to look to see whether you had any contacts with reporters, if you could have -- you know, if there's anything that would, you know, implicate your involvement here.

Think of everything else that could be there that suddenly could come to light. So that's making law clerks certainly very nervous.

And the other thing. You know, even though these people were all trained in the law, and they know to go outside to a lawyer, to perhaps even obtain council, should not be a sign of guilt. It still is one of those things, they think, if I start -- if I suggest that I need a lawyer, does that suggest that I'm guilty in some way here?

KEILAR: Yes. You can see how that would happen. It's really sort of an honor system that they've been operating under. But this is great reporting.

BISKUPIC: Yes. Let me just say, just for our public watching, we should know in the next four weeks exactly how this momentous case comes out. And that's the most important thing: what will the Supreme Court rule on abortion rights and privacy rights for going forward -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, we are awaiting that.

BISKUPIC: Yes.

KEILAR: Joan, thank you so much.

BISKUPIC: Sure.

KEILAR: Berman.

BERMAN: In Uvalde, Texas, this morning, visitation and rosary set for three of the victims of the massacre at the Robb Elementary school. And we do have new reporting about schools across the country increasing their security measures.

CNN's Nick Valencia, live for us in Uvalde this morning. Nick, what's the latest from there?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, John. It has officially been a week since the mass shooting. And there is still so much pain here and so much grief.

The devastating loss of 21 lives has deeply wounded this South Texas community, which will continue to rally to support one other as viewing and funeral services are expected for some of the youngest victims.

This as CNN has obtained new video and new audio which gives us insight into those first moments of the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Chilling new video captured an apparent radio call outside Robb Elementary school where a gunman had opened fire inside classrooms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you injured?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got shot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

VALENCIA (voice-over): In the video, what sounds like a student says they've been shot. The man who recorded the video, who did not want to be identified, tells CNN the audio came from the radio of a Customs and Border Protection vehicle outside the school in Uvalde, Texas.

He said an officer turned off the radio once officers realized he could hear.

This as new dispatch audio obtained by ABC News indicates dispatchers relayed that at least one student was alive in the classroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Advise we do have a child on the line. Child is advising he is in a room full of windows. Full of victims at this moment.

[06:05:04]

VALENCIA (voice-over): CNN has not been able to independently verify the audio or at what point during the shooting this occurred.

Law enforcement's time line shows that the gunman remained in the classrooms for more than an hour while at least eight 911 calls were made by at least two students, begging for help.

Officers had arrived within two minutes, but the commander on the scene decided to wait before confronting the gunman.

COL. STEVEN MCCRAW, DIRECTOR, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: From benefit of hindsight where I'm sitting now, of course it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision, period. There's no -- no excuse for that.

VALENCIA (voice-over): The massacre is one of a string of mass shootings that have left the nation on edge. School districts nationwide are intensifying security protocols, fearing copycat attacks. Like in Buffalo, where a gunman opened fire at a Tops supermarket, killing ten earlier this month.

New safety protocols include all doors remaining locked during the school day. And any person who wishes to enter must call ahead for approval.

REP. COLIN ALLRED (D-TX): Americans are on edge. And they're on edge, because they don't know if it's going to be their place of worship, a mall, a concert, their children's school.

VALENCIA (voice-over): In Uvalde, the community plans for two weeks of funeral services to lay to rest the 21 victims.

Uvalde's mayor has decided to postpone a city council meeting in which several new members were to be sworn in, including School Police Chief Pedro "Pete" Arredondo. He was elected to the city council earlier this month and reportedly was the official who made the decision not to breach the classrooms while the shooter was locked inside.

Arredondo has not spoken to the media since the day of the shooting.

The mayor says Arredondo's role in the shooting response will not impact his ability to serve on the council. Arredondo's decision has angered victims' parents, like Amerie Jo Garza's father.

ALFRED GARZA, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM AMERIE JO GARZA: They needed to act immediately, you know. There's kids involved. You know, there's a gun involved. There's an active shooter wanting to do harm.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (on camera): And in a statement to CNN, the mayor of Uvalde says that Tuesday's focus will continue to be on the families who lost loved ones, as they prepare to bury those small children.

Assistance continues to pour in from both neighbors and strangers. And it's these acts of kindness that have helped lift up this community that has, no doubt, been changed forever -- John.

BERMAN: It will be a very difficult day, just one more in a string. Nick Valencia, thank you so much for being there for us.

VALENCIA: You bet.

KEILAR: President Biden says new bipartisan gun safety legislation can be agreed upon, and he's voicing optimism for some GOP support, claiming rational Republicans are ready for a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Second Amendment was never absolute. You couldn't buy a cannon when the Second Amendment was passed. I think things have gotten so bad that everybody's getting more rational about it. At least that's my hope and prayer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins us now from the White House.

Jeremy, why does the president think that this time may be different?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, Brianna. In the wake of that terrible shooting in Uvalde, Texas, there has been that question for days now, is this moment going to be any different?

As of now, it's still unanswered, but President Biden vowing to continue to push to try and get gun safety reform passed into law or done doing what he can via executive action.

And he's expressing a note of cautious optimism as it relates to the potential for a bipartisan agreement, while he's still stressing, though, the limits of his own power. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: There's the Constitution. I can't dictate this stuff. I can do the things I've done and any executive action I can take, I'll continue to take.

But I can't outlaw a weapon. I can't, you know, change the background checks. I can't do that.

I think there's a realization on the part of rational Republicans, and I consider McConnell a rational Republican and Cornyn, as well. I think there's a recognition on their part that today, we can't continue like this. We can't do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And the president also said, as he spoke, as he arrived at the White House yesterday, that he believes that this moment may be different.

But he stressed, once again, that he has not yet spoken himself directly with any of these Republicans who are negotiating with Democrats. We know that there's that small group of bipartisan lawmakers who are working towards a potential compromise piece of legislation.

The president hasn't been involved, but White House officials tell me that legislative affairs staff here has been involved in speaking with lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

They've also been talking with these gun safety reform groups.

As for the potential for additional executive action, a White House told me, "We're exploring a range of potential executive actions to address the gun violence public health epidemic." But no answers specifically on some of these steps that these gun reform groups are calling for.

For example, one of these moves they're saying that the president can take is to clarify the definition of those who are engaged in the business of dealing firearms, a way, potentially for the president unilaterally to expand background checks -- Brianna.

[06:10:07]

KEILAR: All right. Jeremy Diamond, live at the White House. Jeremy, thanks.

BERMAN: President Biden also plans to meet with Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell later today. Topics one, two and three: inflation.

In a new op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal," the president writes, quote, "With the right policies, the U.S. can transition from recovery to stable, steady growth and bring down inflation without giving up all these historic gains."

Joining me now, CNN business correspondent Rahel Solomon and CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans.

Christine, what do we expect -- well, first of all, this op-ed from President Biden today --

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: Yes.

BERMAN: He does lay out the three things that he thinks will help.

ROMANS: Yes, and there's a whole bunch of proposals in here to try to, like, tell Americans, I feel your pain. I know things are costing more and that you hate this. And here's what I want to do.

He wants clean energy tax credits and investments. He wants to fix broken supply chains, improve infrastructure. Crack down on sky-high overseas shipping costs.

He has a housing supply action plan. Shelter inflation has been a real problem. He wants to show how we can get some more affordable housing in the system.

Medicare prescription negotiation, capping the cost of insulin. You've seen some of these domestic priorities before.

But also cutting the federal deficit and moving forward here on some of the other pillars, I think, of the Biden view on the American economy.

There's -- these are things he can -- it's a lot. It's a lot. But the person who is in charge of fighting inflation is less the president and more the Federal Reserve chairman. And that's why you're going to have that important meeting today.

BERMAN: He says in his op-ed, Biden does, you know, the Federal Reserve chair handles most of this, and I'm not going to mess with him.

ROMANS: Yes.

BERMAN: Unlike my predecessors, he says, I'm not going to mess with him.

Rahel, though, a lot of the stuff that Biden talks about is sort of part of the old Build Back Better agenda, which I've not sure is viable politically at this point.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: We know that was torpedoed because of inflation. So I think at this point, anything that goes forth, if there is a risk of increasing inflation more, we are likely to see perhaps the same thing.

Look, I think it's no surprise that this conversation is happening the day after Memorial Day, after millions of Americans traveled, experienced higher costs for pretty much everything at barbecues, on the roads. And so I think this is the president that is attempting yet again to try to signal that he knows it's an issue and that he is doing what he can.

But to Christine's point it is largely within the domain of the Fed, which Fed Chair Powell has said, look, it's also his top priority, and he will act swiftly at this point. But of course, you know, the concerns and the criticisms is that he waited too long.

BERMAN: Did he wait too long?

ROMANS: Yes. In hindsight it's always 20/20. And there was a COVID fog at the time, but you can remember the treasury secretary, Janet Yellen, saying that inflation could go to 3 percent. Well, it's way higher than that right now.

And you could hear how many times you hear the term word "transitory" --

SOLOMON: "Transitory."

ROMANS: -- in terms of what -- it is not transitory. This is really a problem.

And there are a lot of little things, separately, that all came together. For example, I keep using rental car prices. You know, that's not the president's fault. That's not the Fed's fault. That's because the pandemic stopped rental cars -- the business, essentially. The companies sold off their fleets, and now it costs a lot of money to rent a car. That's just one piece of it.

You add that 20 or 30 different kinds of disruption like that because of COVID. That's why.

And an invasion of Ukraine right now.

BERMAN: Right.

ROMANS: That's why you have these sky-high prices.

Do they -- you know, they were dealt, the Fed and the White House, frankly, dealt a really bad hand of cards. Have they played them well, that bad hand of cards? I'm not sure. I think they're trying to show that we're playing the cards as best we can.

BERMAN: The fuel prices. The thing I think that Americans noticed first in all of this is the gas price at the pump. Not necessarily a great forecast going forward, with the oil prices going up just over the last day again.

SOLOMON: How could you you not notice the gas prices at this point, right? Yes, look, I spoke to a handful of experts about this story yesterday. And the -- the consensus was that there is not much any president, let alone the current president, can do to impact gas prices in the short term because of the hands that they were dealt at this point. Right?

You have demand surging, not just here, but across the country. You have supply limited because of the pandemic. And the decision to sort of lower production because of the pandemic.

And so what we have seen is this sort of quick rebound in terms of demand, in terms of all of these things. And it's a perfect storm.

ROMANS: Yes.

BERMAN: Look, maybe more than anything with this op-ed and with what we're going to hear from the president later today -- and we're going to have Brian Deese on later on in the show today -- they want to be seen as trying. They want to be seen as trying to do something, anything. Whether it works is a different story.

ROMANS: And there are signs that inflation might be peaking here.

BERMAN: Yes?

ROMANS: There are signs. And this is what, you know, the economic brainiacs are looking at every single little tiny indictor, hoping that they're signs that it has peaked here.

But that might not matter to the American people, heading into the voting booth in November, honestly. It might not matter if officially, inflation has peaked, but you're still paying, you know, almost five bucks a gallon for gas.

SOLOMON: Especially because it appears to be moderating. But --

ROMANS: Right.

SOLOMON: -- you know, it's such minimal --

ROMANS: Yes.

SOLOMON: -- percentages.

BERMAN: All right. Rahel Solomon, Christine Romans, thank you.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

BERMAN: Great to see you both.

[06:15:00]

Again, as I said, we will speak with the director of the White House National Economic Council, Brian Deese, on the president's op-ed, on the president's meeting with the Fed chair, and everything going on in the White House today. So stay with us for that.

Russia seeing the harshest punishment yet for its invasion of Ukraine.

Plus, why Canada's Justin Trudeau is calling for a complete freeze on handgun purchases in his nation.

KEILAR: And nostalgia brings crowds back to the theaters, including myself, as "Top Gun: Maverick" breaks records. Are movie

theaters making a big return?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Happening today, a bipartisan group of senators will meet remotely in hopes of finding common ground on gun safety measures.

With me now is the Republican governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson, who led the task force launched by the NRA after the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut.

[06:20:08]

Governor, thank you so much for coming in. It's great to see you.

There's this bipartisan meeting today. And the word that we used there is "common ground." So, I'm wondering, what's the one area -- and I'm talking about guns here, not as much as schools. What's the one area on gun safety where you think there could be common ground?

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR): Well, first of all, I think you've got to be able to talk about the AR-15-style weapons and whether that's an 18 or 21 age. You have to at least have a conversation about that.

That's tough, because the challenge with the gun safety discussion is what makes a difference? And whenever you look at what might make a difference, it's hard to come up with a solution.

And that's why you cannot just simply focus on a gun safety discussion. It's got to also be about investment in higher levels of school safety.

Now, didn't work very well in Uvalde, but they didn't follow the guidebook either, what it appears to be. And -- and so, that's an extraordinary tragedy that's driving the discussion today, as it should.

But I hope that the senators -- first of all, I applaud them for meeting together. As a governor, America wants to see, in a bipartisan way, this kind of discussion going on, looking for solutions that make a difference.

I hope to be able to mirror that as a governor. And that we can have a bipartisan working group of governors also looking at this issue, and how we can do better for our children.

BERMAN: I think there's wide agreement that people like the idea of a discussion about many different aspects of it. And maybe one way of framing the discussion is we may not be able to stop every mass shooting. But what if we could stop one? Then it would be worth it.

And then, to the issue of the age. This is an area, again, where Florida, with a then-Republican governor, Rick Scott, passed a measure lowering the age -- or actually raising the age to 21 where you could buy an AR-15-style weapon.

President Trump -- former President Trump, there was a period of time where he was in favor of raising the age to buy to 21. To a lot of people, that seems like common sense. Why -- why not do that?

HUTCHINSON: Well, first of all, they did that in California. And that was appealed to the courts, and the courts struck it down as unconstitutional. So, you do have a constitutional issue there.

Secondly, as you -- will it make a difference? And as you said, if we stop one, that's worth looking at.

But in terms of the AR-15-style weapons, the last time you did a ban of anything, or a restriction on something, you grandfathered it in. And so you still have millions of these out there. And so, the access is what you can't stop.

Criminals are going to get guns. Bad people are going to get guns. And in this instance in Uvalde, it was different. He waited till his 18th birthday when he had access. So it's hard to say, maybe that might have delayed it more. Maybe it would have made a difference. Whenever that is on the table, then you have to have an honest conversation about it.

BERMAN: I do think it's interesting that -- and I'm not sure you're in favor of raising the age, but you're certainly in favor of exploring it deeply? HUTCHINSON: I do. I think that, you know, I have a lot of concerns

about it from a constitutional standpoint. But we've got to have this conversation.

And of course, part's going to be how are you going to define it? You know, this is not easy. This is in the weeds of legislation. And so, it's going to take a little bit of time.

And again, let's don't put all of our focus on that. Because even if we pass something, we have to do more on the school safety and the investment on the security side.

BERMAN: What's the risk of doing nothing? I mean, because we have in the past done nothing. We have emerged from shootings like this with no changes. So what's the risk of doing nothing here?

HUTCHINSON: Well, there's a lack of confidence by the American public. There is parents that have continued concern about safety in the schools.

But, again, if you simply did something on school safety, that makes a huge difference.

Think about after 9/11, and we had, you know, a safety issue with our airlines. We invested in it. We put air marshals there. We put armed guards there. We armed the cockpits, as well. And it made a difference for safety, and people had confidence in it.

We didn't restrict anything -- well, we did, but we put our magnetometers in place. So we relied upon that, and we could do the same thing with our schools. It's not easy. But that's the -- really, the most important focus that we can have. I think the --

BERMAN: Well, except that it's not just schools, right? It's supermarkets also?

HUTCHINSON: That's right. You're right, in Buffalo. And so you have to have that conversation.

[06:25:07]

And you're right, we've already invested in security at shopping centers, but there's always gaps there. And so, let's look at what can make a difference. That's the key thing. And I know that the senators will be looking at that.

BERMAN: How encouraged are you by the tone in Washington right now? I mean, look, this bipartisan discussion is progress. But do you feel as if people are talking about solutions there?

HUTCHINSON: I think they are. I think they're very genuine about it. We're all either parents or grandparents. And, you know, you're -- you don't escape that personal feeling because you're in the United States Congress. And so, absolutely. I think they're very genuine about it. I think

they want to come together, and they know how tough it is, as well.

BERMAN: You were listening to our conversation about inflation. You know the situation the economy is in right now. It's a little bit of a bifurcated situation. We have very low unemployment in place and great jobs numbers in certain places. I know you're very proud of your record in Arkansas. But then you have inflation, as well.

What do you think the most important challenge is facing the economy? And what do you think the right way is to address it?

HUTCHINSON: Well, the most important factor is energy supply. That's going to be a continued constraint in terms of supply. But this is something we've got to accelerate production here in the United States. This is something we can make a difference on in the short term.

I don't believe it takes quite that long to turn around our energy production. And also, the confidence in our energy supply. And that's what's hurting Americans the most, is the high price of gasoline at the pump. And so that's the most specific thing to address.

Secondly, it's the supply chain. It's not just demand. It's supply chain. There are steps to be taken. We've got, for in Arkansas, we re- shored steel production. You know, U.S. Steels is building a new plant in Arkansas. We're very proud of a $3 billion state-of-the-art plant. We're going to be one of the leading steel-producing states in the nation.

Well, that's -- that's helping us to control our destiny. That helps us on supply. Those are things that are critically important that we have to address, and we need to do it quickly.

BERMAN: Are you thinking about running for president?

HUTCHINSON: Well, it's on the table. But let's get through 2022. We have a very important election. We've got incredibly difficult issues that we're dealing with right now. I want to be a part of the solutions.

I think it's critically important that we have problem-solvers that are running for office, that are looking at leadership of our country and not simply those that are trying to create chaos.

BERMAN: Governor Asa Hutchinson, great to have you here. Thanks so much for joining us.

HUTCHINSON: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: So along these lines, although pretty different, why Canada's Justin Trudeau is calling for a ban on handgun purchases in his country.

KEILAR: Plus, President Biden toeing a thin line between helping Ukraine and provoking Russia. Why he says he will not send long-range rockets.

And jurors return to deliberate in the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard defamation trial. We'll have the key points ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:00]