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New Day

17 Mass Shootings Across U.S. Since School Massacre in Texas; Today, Senators Hold Bipartisan Talks on Gun Reform; Biden Says, U.S. Will Not Send Long-Range Rockets That Can Hit Russia. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 31, 2022 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:05]

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: And, lastly, he did get up there when he said his final thoughts last week. He said, I just wanted my truth to come out. I wanted to set the record straight. So, at the end of the day, no matter what happens, I think Johnny just wanted this moment to kind of say what he wanted to say. And I would assume he's probably happy with the outcome no matter what because of all of the attention he has gotten in all of the moments to speak out in a way that is just unfathomable, especially with the media attention and everything on social media.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Chloe Melas, Laura Jarrett, thank you both.

New Day continues right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. It is Tuesday, May 31st. And I'm Brianna Keilar with John Berman.

America has seen 17 more mass shootings since 19 children and 2 teachers were killed in one of the nation's deadliest school shootings last week. In those other shootings, 13 people were killed. Dozens more were injured, this is according to the Gun Violence Archive, which defines a mass shooting as four or more people being shot or killed not including the shooter.

BERMAN: New this morning, CNN has obtained video from a Facebook livestream during the Uvalde shooting of a frantic radio call. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you injured?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where? Where?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A kid got shot? They shot a kid?

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: Now, although the voice does sound that of a child, it's not clear if it was a student, a teacher or law enforcement officer. The man who recorded this says the audio came from a radio in a Customs and Border Protection vehicle outside the school.

Happening today, a bipartisan group of senators will meet virtually to discuss gun safety legislation. The last time lawmakers enacted a major piece of gun legislation was the 1994 assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004 after lawmakers chose not to renew it.

Hear what the impact of that federal ban might have, CNN's Tom Foreman. Tom?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. When we talk about assault weapons or assault rifles, let's talk about what we mean to begin with. Generally, we're talking semiautomatic firing, meaning anytime you pull the trigger, you don't have to do anything, just pull, pull, pull, shoot, shoot, shoot, a detachable and possibly and large capacity magazine to carry a lot of bullets in there, a pistol grip or something else that allows better control of this with all of that shooting, it doesn't sort of walk away from the target. That's literally what this is all about. And as the Johns Hopkins for gun violence reports, shootings involving these weapons often result in more shots fired, more people wounded and more wounds per victim compared to attacks with other firearms.

That's why people are so concerned about the assault weapon bans. They are saying these are the guns that people choose when they want the large-scale attacks in many ways. And if you look at the numbers from the same center, the Johns Hopkins Center, you can see what happened before the ban, pre-1994, this was a level of different assaults, this is like a pistol using a large magazine, and this is the assault one, during the ban, almost nothing, and then after the ban, from 2004 on, look at the giant growth here.

Tricky, you have to bear in mind, as big as these numbers are, over this period of time, these are small numbers. So, it's sort of hard to put together exactly the impact but advocates for gun control look at this and say, it's obvious a ban on assault weapons would make a difference.

Now, since the federal ban dropped, different states have taken different approaches to this. Some states, the darker blue states, have more restrictive gun laws and they will make the case that they believe per capita that they're doing better for having done this.

The bottom line though is in terms of mass shootings, yes, we've had some really huge ones in the years since the ban was dropped. In Las Vegas, 58 killed at the concert there. In the Sutherland Springs, that church service, 26 killed. The Pulse Nightclub down in Florida, 49 killed. Sandy Hook School, of course, 26 killed.

The bottom line, John, is when you look at the number of deaths in this country, handguns still far and away are the leader. That's what causes most deaths by gun in this country even if you remove suicides from the equation. But assault weapons, because they seem so uniquely attractive to mass shooters, people who want to create chaos and carnage, that's why many of these advocates are saying, go after these assault weapons because they do not see the practical use for these that many gun enthusiasts do see.

[07:05:03]

And they're saying this is a low-hanging fruit. Let's get those either off the market or severely restricted and then talk about what else might need to be done. John?

BERMAN: Tom Foreman, thanks for laying it out for us. I really appreciate it.

KEILAR: Although there has been a year long's stalemate in Washington when it comes to gun reform, President Biden is now expressing optimism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think there's a realization on the part of rational Republicans, and I consider McConnell a rational Republican, and Cornyn as well. I think there's a recognition on their part that they can't continue to be like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: With us now is Jackie Kucinich, CNN Political Analyst and Washington Bureau Chief at The Daily Beast. She has covered the issue of these mass shootings and gun policy in earnest for almost a decade now after Sandy Hook, which is why we have you here to talk about this today. Is he being naive?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think optimism is the right word here. But it does seem like Joe Biden is still assuming that the Senate that he left is still the Senate that is there, in which case you have Republicans that were more willing to work across the aisle with Democrats, but particularly on the issue of guns and even gun safety for that matter, because we've seen background check bills go down in flames for a number of reasons.

It's tough. It's tough in the U.S. Senate and it is really going to be very hard to move anything. So, in that way, perhaps.

KEILAR: So, what is the role of Mitch McConnell and John Cornyn in this?

KUCINICH: So, Mitch McConnell has tapped John Cornyn to be the listener, be a negotiator for the public ends on what could potentially be -- get through the Senate, perhaps have bipartisan support. But we're talking about things that aren't going to -- we're not talking assault weapons ban, far, far, far from it. We're talking potentially the Manchin/Toomey bill which went through the legislative process right after Sandy Hook. And that, of course, failed. What all that did, was add some -- it took private sales and made it so, you would have to have a background check. But it took family members out of the equation. You wouldn't have to do it if you're exchanging between family members. And there were small provisions. But even that was too much to get through the U.S. Senate and that was right after Sandy Hook.

I think also really timing matters here. The sense of urgency, the closer it is to these events happening, the more likely something is going to get passed. The farther and farther away you'll see particularly Republicans start peeling off and finding reasons why they don't have to supporting something like this. And that is just something we've happen over and over again as these mass shootings happen.

BERMAN: It's easy when we cover this in Washington to get cynical that it's anything other than Movement Theater. I realize sometimes as people watch that, that they can feel hopeless looking at that, I don't want them to. I just sometimes wonder if -- as they're looking for hope that things may actually shift in this, if looking at elected leaders is where they're actually going to find hope that things can change.

KUCINICH: so, elected, I think, is the key word there. Because right now, at least even before Sandy Hook, there really wasn't any political incentive, particularly for Republicans to move forward on this, and even for Democrats. I mean, look what happened after a lot of Democrats who lost in the aftermath of voting for the first assault weapons ban looked at that vote as something that perhaps made them lose the House in the mid-90s.

But now, I mean, if people out there want to see more gun regulations, they have to look at who they're voting for and look at their elected leaders. Because, at this point, it looks like in November is probably where this is going to be judged rather than right in the here and now. And within the last, you know, ten years, we've seen more of the program safety movement build up a political incentive to back up people who do take these votes as a counter to groups like the NRA who do really fight tooth and nail against any regulations being implemented. So, political incentive very much a part of this, even though there is a moral imperative.

KEILAR: Thank you, Jackie. Always such a good temperature check for telling us where things really stand on this, we appreciate it.

BERMAN: So, at the request of Uvalde's mayor, the Department of Justice will review the law enforcement response at the Robb Elementary School.

Joining me now former attorney general under President George W. Bush, Alberto Gonzales, he is currently the dean of Belmont University College of Law. It's always great to have you on, sir. Thank you so much for being with us.

This Justice Department review, what do you think the most important thing for them to focus on is and what do you expect might come from it? ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I think the timeline, fully understanding what actually happened here, there are conflicting stories. Obviously, as time goes by, we have more and more information but I think that's the main thing.

[07:10:02]

Because without truly understanding what happened, it's hard to come up with recommendations about how to prevent something like this from happening again. So, that's going to be the main thing, is just getting all the information related to this particular shooting.

BERMAN: Broadly speaking, there is general agreement in law enforcement communities that you can't wait during a mass shooting, that law enforcement needs to go in quickly and powerfully. The issue is making that something that is palatable or having law enforcement realize they have to make that choice in that moment. I mean, how do you do that?

GONZALES: Well, that comes from training, quite frankly, John, a lot of training. And you're right, it's difficult. It's easy to second- guess, after the fact, in terms of what was the right decision here. It appears that the wrong decision was made and the prevailing wisdom. And this has changed over time in terms of how to best respond to this kind of situation. But the prevailing wisdom is that you go in quickly as soon as you can to save as many lives ago possible.

Obviously, there was uncertainty about the situation within those classrooms and that caused hesitation, but that's going to be the job of the Department of Justice to ascertain what really happened here. And, of course, they'll make recommendations.

I was the attorney general during the time of the Virginia Tech shooting. We lost, I think, over 30 people. And part of my responsibility was to work with the secretary of education, the secretary of health and human services, and try to understand what happened at Virginia Tech and come up with a list of recommendations that would help to prevent those kinds of incidents from happening again.

Obviously, they continue, and so more work needs to be done. I applaud Senator McConnell, Senator Cornyn, in terms of looking at this, having a discussion about this. I think it's important. I think Congress can be very, very helpful. This is not about ending gun ownership, it's about expanding gun safety.

I grew up in Texas. I live in Tennessee, two very red states. Gun ownership is very, very important. And I think if you talk to most people in the red states, even they'll tell you what they really support is responsible gun ownership. And that's what we are looking to have our Congressional leaders provide for us.

BERMAN: I was just speaking Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, who I know you worked with in the Bush White House, and I'm not sure he supports raising the age to buy an AR-15-style weapon yet, but he immediately said he wants to have a discussion about raising the age to buy such a weapon. What do you think about that?

GONZALES: I don't think a complete ban is politically viable, quite frankly. I do think we could possibly get the age raised to 21. That seems to make sense. But I think there are other things. And I think Governor Hutchinson was willing to explore these other things that might be done, for example, expanding background checks, perhaps encouraging states to have more -- more states to have red flag laws.

You know, there are a number of things that can occur. For example, one of the things we discovered after Virginia Tech was how little mental health information was being shared by the states to the national database. And so we need -- there's more coordination that's necessary between state and federal officials in order to improve gun safety here in America.

BERMAN: You don't think, for instance, as often we hear from some people, the Second Amendment isn't absolute, in the sense that there can be no regulation on firearms?

GONZALES: Oh, absolutely. I absolutely disagree with the notion that the Second Agreement is unlimited. The Supreme Court has already issued decisions indicating that reasonable restrictions are constitutional. So, those who say that any kind of regulation is an infringement upon my constitutional rights, they're just making a political statement.

BERMAN: Any other possibilities high-capacity magazines, for instance, is an area where some people would like to see some kind of regulation?

GONZALES: Well, I think in the area -- again, of the AR-15, these are killing machines. And so I think it's possible we might get some movement there. But, again, a complete ban, I, quite frankly, think, politically, it's not viable. You also -- no matter what we did here with respect to assault weapons or any other kind of weapon, you have millions of these weapons already in the hands of gun owners in this country.

So, there are limitations. I think what we ought to focus on is what is possible, what is really possible, as opposed to going for something that has absolutely no chance of being passed into law.

BERMAN: I'm actually a little surprised that you just used the phrase, killing machines, because that's something that people who do want to see a ban on AR-15s, that's a phrase that they use. And you were, I believe, still White House Counsel in 2004 when the assault weapons ban expired, which was something that the Bush White House, if I'm not mistaken, wanted to see expire.

[07:15:06]

Do you regret at this point that the 1994 assault weapon ban expired?

GONZALES: Well, again, because there are millions already in the hands of gun owners, that doesn't mean that it would have eliminated or stopped a mass shooting. Quite frankly, personally, I have no issue with respect to bans on assault weapons. But I -- again, John, I just don't think it's possible here in this country at this particular point in time. I don't know what it would take to get that passed. As I look at the make-up of the members of the Senate, members of the House, I just don't see it happening. I just don't see it possible.

BERMAN: Former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, as I said, always a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks for coming on this morning.

GONZALES: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Why President Biden says he will not send Ukraine rockets that could reach deep into Russian territory.

KEILAR: Plus, new and exclusive CNN reporting this morning on the escalated search for the source of the Roe v. Wade leak.

And a former Trump White House adviser revealing he's been subpoenaed by federal prosecutors.

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[07:20:00]

BERMAN: Pope Francis elevating a progressive bishop to cardinal, raising questions about what kind of clergy he would like to see in the United States.

CNN has reporters around the world covering all the latest.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Delia Gallagher in Rome. The United States has a new cardinal. Pope Francis has named San Diego Bishop Robert McElroy, the only American, as one of 21 new cardinals to be installed August 27th in a ceremony at the Vatican.

McElroy is known as a progressive, a friend of the LGBTQ community and against denying communion to pro-choice politicians.

HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: I'm Hadas Gold in Jerusalem, where there are growing calls to outlaw two extremist Jewish groups after Sunday's Jerusalem Day Flag March turned violent. The march commemorates when Israel took control of East Jerusalem from Jordan in 1967, but has become a magnet for far-right groups. And on Sunday, marchers violently clashed with Palestinians in the old city streets, some even shouting hateful chants, like death to Arabs.

While Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett has condemned what he called a minority, two of his cabinet ministers have gone even further. The defense minister and the public security minister say two specific extremist groups known as Lehava and La Familia should be designated as terrorist organizations, effectively outlawing them.

STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: I am Stefano Pozzebon in Bogota. Colombia took a new step towards the unknown last Sunday, as two outsiders progressed to the second round of the country's presidential election. For the runoff, which is set for June 19th, third-time candidate and left-wing former guerilla member Gustavo Petro will face off against a 77-year-old populist entrepreneur Rodolfo Hernandez.

Petro, who won the first round with 40 percent of the ballots said Colombia was ready to open a new chapter in its recent history.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong. A U.S. congressional delegation led by Senator Tammy Duthckworth is in Taiwan for an unannounced three-day visit. On Tuesday morning, they met with Taiwan's President Tsai Ing-wen and they stressed the importance of the U.S.-Taiwan partnership on security as well as economic collaboration.

Now, china slammed the visit with its embassy in Washington saying it firmly opposes it and that the U.S. should, quote, stop all forms of official interactions with Taiwan.

KEILAR: Since the beginning of Russia's war on Ukraine the, U.S. has had to navigate wanting to help Ukraine's military without going so far as to provoke Russia into war, President Biden making that clear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Are you going to send long-range rocket systems to Ukraine?

BIDEN: We're not going to send to Ukraine rocket systems that can strike into Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN reported last week that the Biden administration was preparing to step up the weaponry it is offering Ukraine by sending advanced long-range rocket systems. Russia warned the U.S. will, quote, cross a red line if those supplies are sent.

Joining us now is CNN White House Reporter Natasha Bertrand and CNN National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood.

Okay. So, tell us how if President Biden's comments change any of that, Natasha.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: So, the short answer is they don't change much. Because what we had heard from sources last week was that the administration was preparing to announce that they would be sending these systems, these multiple launch rocket systems to Ukraine, that Ukrainians have been essentially begging for, for the last several weeks.

The nuance, though, here is that while those systems can fire as 300 kilometers, so that's about 186 miles, it depends on the kind of munition that's actually in the system. So, the administration could send rockets that don't go as far.

And that would then allow the Biden administration to say, look, we are providing these systems to the Ukrainians, however, we're not giving them the kinds of ammunition, the kind of rockets that would then allow them to strike 200 miles across the border into Russia, for example, because Russia has said that any kind of western facilitation of Ukrainian attacks on Russian soil would, in fact, be a red line.

KEILAR: Is Russia going to see it that way, do you think, kylie?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that's the question here and that has always been the question that the Biden administration looks at when they're deciding when they're going to increase the weaponry that they send to the Ukrainians.

And so we've seen this debate play out constantly over the last four months, right?

[07:25:00]

But you have seen the Biden administration with a higher risk tolerance, in terms of what weaponry they're willing to give Ukraine over the last few months.

And so it does matter how Russia responds here. And it's significant that after that after Natasha and our colleagues reported that these multi launch rocket systems were being considered, a Russian T.V. host came out and said this is a red line for Russia.

Now, a T.V. host isn't the same as the Kremlin saying that, but you have to imagine that the Biden administration is digesting all of these comments that are coming out of Russia and putting that into part of its calculation here.

KEILAR: We should be clear, all these missile strikes that you see the video of, the terrible effect of in Ukraine, these are missiles that are coming from outside of Ukraine. They're coming from Belarus. They're coming from Russia. And Ukraine wants this ability to hit those. Will they have that ability?

BERTRAND: Well, this is exactly why they want these systems, right? They say that this could be a game-changer, that if they get these systems from the United States and from the U.S. allies, including the U.K., which is also considering sending them, then they could effectively break the Russian siege tactics in areas of Eastern Ukraine and they could fire back and hit areas where those missile strikes are coming from.

But the real kind of purpose and real kind of usefulness of these systems would, in fact, be to push the Russians back. So, if the Russians know that they have these systems that are capable of striking miles and miles out, then the idea is that the Russians will then back away.

And so this isn't necessarily useful only for the purpose of striking locations inside Russia or Belarus or whatever, it is also for defensive purposes. And that is why we also saw, of course, that Denmark is sending harpoon anti-cruise, anti-ship missiles to the Ukrainians so that they can start striking those ships that are in the Black Sea that are also striking Ukrainian targets.

KEILAR: Yes, go on. Sorry. ATWOOD: Yes. And I just want to add that because the technical details matter here that we were talking about earlier, the United States has already given Ukraine these howitzers that go 18 miles in distance. So, we are talking about a much greater distance that they are now considering, but it's not as if the Ukrainians don't have the capability to be launching rockets that are going a significant distance and are already giving them some capability, they just want to be able to go further now.

KEILAR: And not ruling out that they will be able to go further, maybe just not incredibly far is the issue here. Kylie, Natasha, great reporting. Thank you guys so much.

Turned over phone records, signed affidavits, exclusive CNN reporting on this ramped-up search for who leaked the Roe v. Wade draft opinion.

BERMAN: Back into the danger zone, decades after the tragic and mysterious death of Goose, Top Gun blast into theaters with huge success. What's the key to this magic? How will Hollywood try to copy this going forward?

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