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U.S. Supreme Court Overturns Roe v. Wade Decision Providing Constitutional Right to Abortion for Women; Polling Indicates Public against U.S. Supreme Court Decision Overturning Roe v. Wade; Pres. Zelenskyy Tells G7 Leaders: Russia's War Needs to End by Winter. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 27, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:08]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. It is Monday, June 27th, and I'm Brianna Keilar alongside John Berman.

Now what? That is the question that millions of Americans are asking after the morning after the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. Now what happens to a woman in Texas who wants an abortion? Is it illegal for her to travel to Colorado to get one? Is it illegal for someone to advise her on how to do that? What about abortion pills, where can they be mailed? Where can't they be mailed? What about the politics? Could a Republican Congress with a Republican president put a national ban with abortions in place? And what can Democrats do, if anything?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: At least 10 states quickly moved to implement laws effectively banning abortions since Friday. Some happened automatically with so-called trigger laws. Another five states expected to enact further laws limiting abortion, and all 26 states have laws that indicate they could outlaw or set limits on the procedure. There have been some protests across the country over the last couple of days. They were largely peaceful.

And as some states move to restrict abortion rights, others are taking steps to protect access and funding. Some major companies are pledging to provide support for employees and in some cases their dependents in states where abortions are being outlawed.

There are questions this morning about the future of other court- determined rights. The consenting opinion from Justice Clarence Thomas calls for the court to reconsider precedents on contraception and same-sex marriage.

KEILAR: Joining us now from the Supreme Court, we have CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider. Jessica, how are things there at the court this morning?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, John, they're actually pretty quiet this morning, but we've seen those protests all weekend long. We're expecting more later this morning. The Supreme Court is set to issue opinions again at 10:00 a.m. We have already seen this court issue its most monumental decision in decades on Friday, overturning Roe v. Wade, but there is still a lot to come here.

We still have seven opinions left in this term. It's a term we expect to wrap up this week. But the court will still be issuing decisions impacting religious liberty, immigration, and climate change. In fact, the case on religious liberty is out of Washington state, and the court will answer the question, was the high school out there justified in suspending a coach who would pray on the 50 yard line after games. So that's a big case.

We also have a big case regarding immigration and whether or not the Biden administration actually was OK in rescinding a Trump administration rule called Remain in Mexico that sent migrants back to Mexico while they awaited their immigration court proceedings.

And then we have a very big case that could impact climate change. That will be a decision from the court about the authority of the EPA to regulate power plants and, thus, really regulate climate change. And if they rolled back the EPA's power, that will have a huge impact for generations to come potentially.

So, a lot to come from this court. We've already seen a lot on Friday. A lot to come this term. And John and Brianna, interestingly, not only a lot still to come this term with the seven opinions left, but also next term. This court will hear big cases starting in October on Affirmative Action and election laws as well. So, the conservative majority here has only really been on the court, these five conservative justices, plus the chief justice, for less than two years, but already they have enacted sweeping change as we saw on Friday and could see in the days to come. Guys?

KEILAR: Jessica Schneider, thank you.

BERMAN: We want to bring in CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten now. Harry, we have our first poll since the Supreme Court made its decision. Broadly speaking, a majority were against overturning Roe versus Wade, but that only tells part of the story.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, so look, this was the first poll that was taken, disapproved of the Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe v. Wade. The clear majority, 59 percent overall. Democrats, not much surprise, 83 percent. The key bloc in the middle, independents 62 percent. The vast majority of Republicans in fact approve of the decision. Just 22 percent disapprove. But I would say, when you get 22 percent of Republicans agreeing on something and 83 percent of Democrats agreeing on something, that's going to be the majority decision, which is not a surprise that is the case right here.

BERMAN: When I said opinions on abortion are more nuanced than this top line may show, what does that mean?

ENTEN: Look, there are a lot of different ways that you can ask the abortion question. So abortion should be legal at least when saving the mother's life, 82 percent of Americans agree upon that. Generally, in the first trimester, look here, again, 67 percent of Americans agree upon that. It's when you get into the second and third trimester, all of a sudden the belief that abortion should be legal drops below 50 percent. Just 36 percent in the second trimester, and in the third trimester, just 20 percent of Americans agree it should be legal.

BERMAN: Which is why the actual case before the Supreme Court is so interest. The Mississippi law that would have banned abortion after 15 weeks, which is where John Roberts was, basically. Why is the 15-week ban interesting?

[08:05:10]

ENTEN: The 15-week-ban is interesting because if they had done that, they would have been on the side of public opinion. There's a number of polls that were taken that show, look at this, on average, 51 percent of Americans favored a ban on abortion after 15 weeks when there are exceptions for medical emergency, as was the case in the Mississippi law. The court decided to basically say, screw it, we're not going with the public. We're going further on this. They would have had the American people on their side with this 51 percent had they, in fact, gone with the Roberts' opinion, which is not surprising because he likes to keep the court in the middle of public opinion.

BERMAN: It is interesting that a majority here, though, would favor, would be in favor of some restrictions on abortion because the 15-week ban would a restriction from what we previously had. I want to look at states now. If you talk about state by state where people approve of banning or restricting abortion, what do you see?

ENTEN: Yes. So if you look at the state map here, so this is where Americans support or oppose legal abortion. Average of polls since 2012, you can see the vast majority of states are in the green that support. That's 34 states plus the District of Columbia. There are, though, 16 states that oppose legal abortion. Those are not surprisingly mostly in the southeast. They're also in the Great Plains states. This is where Republicans tend to win elections. But the clear majority of Americans do, in fact, agree with abortion. And not surprisingly when you have such a large number, look, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, there are going to be key gubernatorial races there in those states this year. It will be interesting to see if the Democratic candidates try and run on abortion rights.

BERMAN: It is interesting, in the states that oppose legal abortion, this mirrors largely the states where abortion is now banned, although there are some where that's not case.

ENTEN: Right, in the 13 states with so-called trigger laws, look at that, just 43 percent believe that abortion should be always or mostly legal. Look at this, 52 percent believe it should always or mostly be illegal based on an average poll since 2012. So abortion being illegal in the so called trigger states, that is with the majority public opinion.

BERMAN: People are projecting forward, wondering what this might mean for other Supreme Court decisions. Clarence Thomas opened the door a little bit, saying that same-sex marriage, contraception, those should be reviewed.

ENTEN: Ys, the American public definitely doesn't want those reviewed. Contraception or birth control, look at that, the vast majority believe it should be legal at 83 percent. Same-sex marriage in an average of polls this year, 68 percent believe it should be legal. If the court goes where Clarence Thomas wants them to go, oh, boy, they're going to really be against public opinion, John.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, very important look at where the numbers really are. Thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Brianna?

KEILAR: Overturning Roe v. Wade has been the goal of anti-abortion organizations for decades, and now they have achieved that. So, what is next for them?

Joining me now is Mallory Carroll. She is the vice president of communications at Susan B. Anthony pro-life America, which is an anti- abortion organization. Mallory, thank you so much for being with us this morning. We've been asking this question this morning, now what? So I really want to talk to you about the future and how you see your organization and other anti-abortion organizations in that. The head of SBA wrote in a "Washington Post" op-ed, quote, "We reject the charge that our care commences at conception and ends at birth." How do you see the responsibility of those who support this decision to support these babies, women, and families, who they might have chosen abortion and now that won't be an option?

MALLORY CARROLL, VICE PRESIDENT, SUSAN B. ANTHONY, PRO-LIFE AMERICA: Right. Thank you so much for having me on, on NEW DAY, of all programs to talk about the new day that it is in America for the unborn and for women.

I do think it's important to note in reference to the discussion that was just had, what has happened with the Supreme Court is that they've taken their thumb off the scale and are now allowing the people through their elected representatives to decide where it is we have consensus in protecting unborn children. So some states are going to stay right where public opinion, it was noted, is very popular, supporting a limit on abortion after 15 weeks. Others are going to go earlier in pregnancy depending on where consensus can be found.

A majority of Americans support some restrictions on abortion, and they support restrictions that Roe did not allow. Roe put us in a status quo abortion on demand up until the moment of birth, oftentimes paid for by taxpayers. That's what pro-abortion Democrats want. The pro-life movement at this point now, we have the freedom to have our debate in the public square and to make our arguments to -- for protecting life.

And to your point, I know you're very interesting in what it is that we're doing to help women in need, those women who may have wanted to obtain an abortion prior to this decision and now are in states where abortion isn't available. The pro-life -- and this is the untold story of the pro-life movement.

[08:10:00]

It's been underreported and unreported for 50 years, is the pregnancy center movement, more than 3,000 across the nation, that for decades have been serving women and their unborn children in these community- based centers, last year alone serving 2 million people, providing services, as many as $270 million worth of services. Pregnancy tests, STD and STI care, ultrasounds, and really getting out the material and financial needs for women.

So, that is where we want to expand on that effort, which has been the heart of the pro-life movement, not political organizations such as my own, but these community-based resource centers for women and children in need.

KEILAR: I do think, whether someone agrees or disagrees with what the court has done here, objectively this is going to create a need, right? If you look just at Texas, you're talking about more than 50,000 abortions in a year. So, if you have a large amount of children that otherwise you would not have had, and a lot of people -- this is an economic decision that they're making when they choose to have an abortion. So, you're talking about kids who are born into families that do not have good economic circumstances. So, let's talk about some of the things that might help with that. What about paid maternity leave?

CARROLL: Yes. Well, I'm so glad you brought up Texas, because at the same time they passed their monumental heartbeat protection law, they also funded a $100 million program for alternatives to abortion within Texas to help Texas communities serve women and children and provide material and financial resources, childcare support, housing, et cetera.

And so the -- states like Texas where lawmakers are going to be most ambitious to protect unborn life that are also going to have the most need for women. And we've been so -- what has happened since Friday is what we expected to happen and what is really encouraging is that states are stepping up to make sure that women know the resources that are available to them. In South Dakota over the weekend, Governor Noem, she launched this incredible website to help South Dakota women find care that they need in their communities. Georgia, the legislature has passed a bill to enable creation of housing for pregnant women --

KEILAR: But, Mallory, can I interrupt you? I do want to interrupt you just because we have a limited amount of time here. Is that enough, though? I mean, you're talking about -- that just isn't enough money, right? If we're talking about a child from the age of birth until they're grown up, food stamps, WIC funding, expansion of Medicaid, you're talking about education. And when you look at some of these states where you have enjoyed the support of Republican senators who have helped you achieve this makeup of the court and this victory, this outcome, as you see it, they tend to shy away from expanding these benefits. Are you going to hold them to account to protect the lives and not just the births of these children and the families who support them?

CARROLL: Of course. The pro-life movement's care for women and children doesn't stop after birth, which is why the pregnancy center movement that I was talking about, oftentimes the first thing they're doing for women is helping them to sign up for Medicaid, for WIC, for CHIP, for these existing public programs out there to help them get off their feet. And they go further by training moms and dads, doing job training to help them get long-term economic -- to help them get on their feet economically.

But we're not -- we are open to all policy opportunities and are not taking anything off the table. Already we've seen at the federal level Senator Cramer, Senator Deans, Senator Rubio, he has put together an entire program that would include expanding WIC, that includes paid family leave. So, there are -- you're absolutely right.

KEILAR: But let me ask you about that one. If you're talking about that, and I think it's sort of about drawing down on some Social Security benefits in order to pay for that, how do you do that if you haven't paid into it? Are you in favor of putting more taxpayer dollars, and not just having people who may not actually be able to access that kind of benefit? Is this something that's going to require more spending? And are people who are in favor of this decision going to support that and push their Republican members of Congress to do that?

CARROLL: Yes. We're not taking anything off the table. The immediate need, though, is going to be at the state level, which is why we've been so encouraged to see governors like Tate Reeves in Mississippi, Kemp in Georgia, to initiate these programs to help women. We're looking at community-based local solutions because that -- women -- the community knows best what the women of those communities need.

[08:15:00]

And again, this is Medicaid, WIC, CHIP, these are existing public programs that regardless of the Dobbs decision people can sign up for that the pro-life movement has been helping people to do, as well as expanding the existing private safety network that exists for pro-life women.

We don't ask a firefighter before he goes into a burning building is he prepared to provide for all the material needs of the people inside the building that's on fire. We have just put out a huge fire, the taking of 4,000 unborn American lives every day.

And now, we can focus even more on providing for the needs of women and their children and we are redoubling our commitment to coming alongside moms in need because that is what this movement is all about.

Going all the way back to Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, the first feminist women who fought for suffrage. They saw women and their children as inextricably linked and that you couldn't build the rights of one group by breaking the rights of another. So that is the heart and spirit of the pro-life movement is about

loving them both. That's what we're here to do and that's what we've been doing for 50 years that's been unreported.

So we're going to redouble those efforts at the community level and not take anything off the table when it comes to policy solutions.

KEILAR: Mallory, I thank you so much for being a part of this discussion this morning.

Mallory Carroll with Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America. Thank you.

CARROLL: Thanks.

KEILAR: And a major programming note, CNN's Dana Bash will be sitting down with Vice President Kamala Harris to discuss this and much more today at 4:00 PM Eastern.

Ahead, we're going to be joined by the daughter of Jane Roe with her thoughts on the overturning of this landmark decision.

BERMAN: And new this morning, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy tells G7 leaders that he wants the war to end by winter. This, as the country's eastern region falls almost entirely under Russian control.

And we have new CNN reporting just in on a key figure in the QAnon sphere, making an online return.

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[08:20:48]

KEILAR: The G7 summit in Germany underway right now. President Biden and other world leaders are planning their next moves against Vladimir Putin.

And new this morning, President Zelenskyy virtually telling G7 leaders that he wants Russia's war on Ukraine to end by winter. This, as the Russian offensive continues in the east making some progress, slowly but surely. Ukraine now confirming the key city of Severodonetsk is completely under Russian occupation and the country's Luhansk region is now almost entirely under Russian control.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live this morning near the Summit site with some new reporting. Kaitlan, what can you tell us?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so this call happened behind closed doors. Reporters were in the room just briefly to see the President Biden and those other G7 leaders, including British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, the French President all seated around this table waiting to hear from President Zelenskyy who was appearing virtually on screen.

And we are told by a source that President Zelenskyy during these remarks to the G7 leaders and said that he really wants this war to end by the end of 2022 and not extend further than that. And we heard from Jake Sullivan, President Biden's National Security

Adviser, Brianna, he wouldn't go as far as to confirm that that was exactly what Zelenskyy said.

But he did say the Ukrainian leader focused on the next few months, not the next few years and he talked to these allies who have obviously been helping support the Ukrainian military with so much assistance, especially the United States.

And he said that he wanted them to be able to basically have maximum -- make maximum use of the next few months to put the Ukrainians in the most advantageous position that they can be in to not only defend themselves against the Russians, but to be able to defeat the Russians and push them out of their territory.

And so clearly, you're seeing a lot of conversation about the timeline here, because there has been this concern that this has become this grinding conflict with no end in sight, and that is now just becoming the slog.

There has been concern among these G7 leaders that there is going to be fatigue in the support for what's happening in Ukraine, the longer it goes on.

So clearly behind closed doors today, a lot of discussion about the timeline of this, and obviously, you can see why Ukraine wants it to end sooner rather than later. There has been so much human suffering, as you saw even put on display with these new strikes against Kyiv in recent days, so a lot of focus on the timeline here behind closed doors today.

BERMAN: Kaitlan. I understand you have new information also, on White House plans for President Biden to speak to the Chinese leader again.

COLLINS: Yes. Jake Sullivan did confirm that they expect in the next few weeks for President Biden and President Xi Jinping of China to speak. And of course, that is notable because so much of this trip is not just about Russia, it's also about China, and what they are doing to basically show to Russia what happens when something like they take over a smaller country and try to basically use their power, use their leverage to their advantage.

And so this is something that would be notable because there hasn't really been a regular kind of rhythm to the calls between Biden and Xi, they've had these big virtual calls, but they don't speak regularly on a frequent basis and there have been questions about whether or not there's going to be a Biden visit to meet with Xi Jinping in person, which would obviously be notable given the Chinese leader has not left China since the COVID-19 pandemic was underway.

And so that is really another subject that is also not the forefront of these discussions, but is certainly an underlying theme to what is happening here at the G7 Summit and the upcoming NATO Summit.

KEILAR: All right, Kaitlin Collins, thank you so much. We appreciate it. BERMAN: All right, joining us now, CNN chief international

correspondent, Clarissa Ward.

Clarissa, thanks so much for being with us.

This new statement from President Zelenskyy saying he wants the war to be over by winter, that he doesn't want to see a grinding conflict. What do you make of that? Again, he didn't start the war, but talking about ways maybe to end it now?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think President Zelenskyy is trying to put as much pressure as he possibly can on G7 leaders, also NATO leaders meeting in Madrid later this week to really try to galvanize support, particularly in terms of heavy weapons, ammunition that are still desperately needed on the frontlines in the eastern part of Ukraine, particularly, but everybody knows that things could change very quickly.

[08:25:10]

WARD: We've heard the British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson coming out here and saying, listen, the goal now is to help Ukraine win this war decisively.

But at the same time, Zelenskyy understands that he is up against the clock in terms of people's patience with this process, because while Russia has an extremely high pain tolerance, and President Putin does not answer to the demands of his voters, liberal democracies are not in that same position, they do not have that luxury and inflation and rising gas prices and food prices put a lot of pressure on political leaders.

And I think Zelenskyy worries that ultimately, that could result in the kind of fatigue that Prime Minister Boris Johnson was talking about and even in a kind of sort of increased detachment from this conflict.

So he wants to galvanize support in this critical moment, in this critical week for full support going ahead to try to end this thing.

KEILAR: Will Zelenskyy, Clarissa, have to concede territory to Russia to do this, to have this timeline happen?

WARD: It is very difficult right now to see how it would be possible for this war to end essentially in the next seven months without some kind of concession being made, or some deal being struck because while Russian forces had significant failures early on in this conflict, they were forced to withdraw from the north of the country.

They doubled down their efforts on the east. We've seen now that Luhansk is almost entirely under the control of Russian forces. They will now be pushing as well into neighboring, Donetsk, those two areas make up the so called Donbas Republic.

They've been able to take major cities like Mariupol for example, where we saw some of the worst and most relentless bombardment. And so the question becomes, what would it take to put a stop to this war? And what possible extractions or concessions, I should say, is Zelenskyy potentially willing to make?

He is in a very difficult position politically, though, because Ukrainian people having suffered so much, having lost so much, are not necessarily right now in the mood to negotiate.

But the leaders see what's happening in the east, and I think there is more pragmatism coming into their thinking. How that deal gets resolved, though, is still very much an open question and there is no sense yet at this stage that these negotiations are really happening in a meaningful way, because both sides appear to think and certainly, the Russian side appears to think that it is still possible to have a victory achieved unilaterally.

BERMAN: You know, it is interesting, because this is the elephant in the room, the US when you talk to White House officials and the State Department, they won't even talk about this, really, certainly not in public. Is that the case, though when you talk to other allies and supporters of Ukraine? France, for instance; Germany, for instance, are they as reluctant to talk about this eventuality?

WARD: Well, I think that what has been really interesting to see is that leaders have been reluctant to say what exactly the strategic objective has been in Ukraine up until now.

They've been very clear about why it is necessary to support Ukraine, but whether the goal was an all-out victory against Russia or whether the goal was simply a sort of war of attrition that would gradually bleed out Russia, has been much murkier.

And so to see Prime Minister Boris Johnson sitting down with the French President, Emmanuel Macron, who has been much less decisive on this issue, at least on his rhetoric, and both of them coming out and saying the goal is now to soundly defeat Russia, and if that cannot be achieved, at the very least, to help the Ukrainians extract the maximum that they can out of some kind of a peace process or a negotiated settlement.

That's significant, because it gives you a sense of what the thinking is going forward and it gives you a sense also that there might be a sort of finite time by which some progress has to be made or some, you know, the sense that you have to be close to this end goal of a potential victory before then acknowledging, okay, we do need to sit down or the Ukrainians do need to sit down, rather and try to make some kind of a deal and what would that deal look like?

But as I said, for what we see now on the ground, and here, it doesn't seem that that is going to be an easy stepping stone to cross.

BERMAN: No, even as the Russians continue to make some gains in the east.

Clarissa, thanks so much. Great to see you this morning.

All right, we have some new reporting just in to CNN on a key QAnon figure returning with new online posts.

KEILAR: And Rudy Giuliani slapped on the back at a Staten Island supermarket. We're getting a look at the alleged assault.

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