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House January 6th Committee to Hold Surprise Hearing Featuring Testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, Former Top Aide to Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows; Forty-Six Migrants Found Dead Inside Trailer in San Antonio, Texas; VP Harris "Never Believed" Trump Nominees on Fate of Roe. Aired 8-8:30a ET.

Aired June 28, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00]

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: If it's clear that we're on course for a Biden-Trump rematch, there's going to be a hunger, I think, for some kind of alternative to an 81-year-old running against a 78-year-old.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Manchin called you brother when you asked, which is his way of dodging the straightforward question. Jonathan Martin, terrific reporting. Thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it, my friend.

MARTIN: Thank you, John. See you.

BERMAN: NEW DAY continues right now.

Good morning to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. It is Tuesday, June 28th. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. And we have morning intrigue surrounding the January 6th committee today. A surprise hearing, this was not on the schedule. We are told it is to present recently obtained evidence with at least one surprise witness who has been central to their investigation. That witness is Cassidy Hutchinson, a former top aide to Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows. She has been in some of the most dramatic moments of videotaped testimony. She identified the names of several Republican lawmakers. She said we're asking about pardons. She talked about conversations around illegality of the fake electors scheme. She reportedly confirmed accounts that Trump reacted approvingly to the chance of hang Mike Pence.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And we're also learning federal agent seized John Eastman's cell phone last week. You are looking at video of this incident as it was unfolding. Eastman is the chief architect of Donald Trump's scheme to install fake electors in order to overturn the election.

BERMAN: Joining us now, CNN anchor Chris Wallace, host of "Who's Talking to Chris Wallace." Chris, great to see you this morning. When you have an unannounced hearing like this, you raise expectations, whether you mean to or not. So clearly everyone looking at this hearing today at 1:00 wondering what is Cassidy Hutchinson going to talk about? What are you expecting? CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you're exactly right. In fact, when

I unplugged last night, we still didn't know the identity of the mystery witness. When I woke up this morning, we did. And it is a little surprising just because Cassidy Hutchinson has spoken, and we have seen the tapes that you just showed, she has spoken to the committee I think three times in taped testimony. So it is a little surprising that she would suddenly be a mystery witness. I think she's got a lot to say, but it is not like she hasn't said a lot of it to the committee in prerecorded testimony already.

She has got a lot to say. As you pointed out, she was the executive assistant to Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff. She knows a lot about the conversations that he was having. Members of Congress would talk to her as she went in to see Meadows, some that, she says, subsequently asked for pardons. She's going to testify that Mark Meadows at one point after meeting with Congressman Scott Perry took some papers, put them in his White House, or his West Wing fireplace and burned them, which is always interesting. And, of course, she's the one, as you pointed out, who has told the committee that Meadows met with the president, came back, this was on January 6th, when the crowd was chanting "Hang Mike Pence," and said the president thinks they have a pretty good idea.

So a lot consequentially to say. The reason that it had to be held, remember, the committee, we were told, wasn't going to hold hearings again until mid-July, and this mystery and the talk about added security, I think that will be as interesting almost as what she has to say, the backstory as to how this hearing came to be.

KEILAR: Do you think part of this might be that the committee realized they might have made a little bit of mistake, of a mistake of not seizing the momentum they had. People have been interested. They have been watching, they have been waiting almost tuning in like it is their weekly TV show. And then they were taking a break, maybe at a time when people were ready to watch another hearing.

WALLACE: Well, it certainly could be. I have to say when Chairman Thompson announced last week at the end of the week, Thursday I guess it was, that they weren't going to -- they were taking a break, sort of like a TV series that goes on its Christmas break and resumes in January, I was a little surprised, because I agree with you that there was a momentum to the hearings, and particularly the last hearing about what was going on in the Justice Department was very powerful.

I don't know that I think this is theatrics. I suspect that there is a reason they chose -- remember, while Cassidy Hutchinson was testifying a prerecorded depositions to the committee, she had said she was not going to testify in public. She changed lawyers, and then she apparently agreed to testify in person, in public, live. And maybe they feel like let's get her on the record before she changes her mind again. As I say, I suspect the backstory is going to be almost as interesting as what she has to say today.

[08:05:00]

BERMAN: And to be completely transparent about what we know, it's not a lot. It is possible the committee has something else besides this that necessitated the rapid calling of this new hearing. We're just going to have to wait and see at this point until 1:00 p.m. or until more reporting comes in.

WALLACE: Yes, but John, it's always fun to speculate without much evidence as to what is being said. No, I agree with you. And remember, they also said that they are holding this hearing because of recently obtained evidence. I don't think there is much recently obtained evidence from Cassidy Hutchinson because, as I say, she's been deposed thoroughly by the committee. So you're quite right, maybe there is something else. Let's hope so.

BERMAN: I'll tell you, or I'll ask you about one thing we do now know about, which is that John Eastman had a visit from federal investigators where they went to see him while he was eating at a restaurant in New Mexico, and they had a warrant, they served him, and they took his cell phone from him. You have been saying all along, Chris, that's what's happening inside the Justice Department, the actual legal investigation here, is always worth watching. What do you see here?

WALLACE: Well, what I see here is that according to Eastman, who filed, and this turned out to be the same day that they rousted Jeffrey Clark, the person who wanted to be the attorney general, they rousted him in the middle of the morning, sent him out -- in the middle of the night, rather, sent him out in his pajamas and seized everything in his house. What I think is most interesting here is in Eastman's lawsuit, he says that the agents seizing his phone were doing it on behalf of the inspector general of the Justice Department. This isn't the Justice Department prosecutor. Inspectors general investigate what's going on in their department.

And remember the testimony we heard last week was that Eastman helped set up a fellow named Ken Klukowski, who worked for Jeff Clark in the Justice Department and helped him draft that letter that was going to go to Georgia saying that we have obtained significant worrisome evidence of voter fraud, and that the governor of Georgia, Jeffrey (ph) Kemp, should consider the Senate calling a special session in order to appoint a set of -- he didn't call it this -- but alternative electors for Donald Trump. It seems the reason they went after Eastman is because of his involvement of stuff in the Justice Department, not what he was doing outside the Justice Department separately with President Trump.

BERMAN: Yes, again, the bar is very high, though, when you go after lawyers here. So we'll see where that goes.

Chris, stick around for a moment, if you will. We're going to talk to you shortly about the political fallout, what is still happening in the aftermath of the Roe versus Wade decision, that being overturned. We have got much more to ask you.

First, though, new overnight, a horrific human tragedy. The death toll rising after a group of migrants found dead inside the trailer of a semitruck in San Antonio. More than a dozen others were taken to local hospitals to be treated for heat exhaustion and stroke. Joining us now is the mayor of San Antonio, Ron Nirenberg. Mayor, thank you for being with us this morning. Can you give us the latest on this horrific death toll?

MAYOR RON NIRENBERG, SAN ANTONIO: Sure, good morning, John. So yesterday evening our fire department and police department were dispatched to an area south in the city on reports of a trailer, and what they found was nothing short of horrific -- 46 deceased individuals as well as 16 who were now fighting for their lives in local hospitals, four of those pediatric, not quite adults. So it's a -- it's a humanitarian tragedy, and it's something that obviously we're working to deal with right now as we speak.

BERMAN: What an awful loss of life. The investigation has been going on, I know, for several hours now. Were you learning any more about this -- about how this came to pass?

NIRENBERG: Not yet, but this is a federal investigation, and they will go through their paces, and obviously we will assist in any way. But again, this area has been known to see a lot of truck trafficking and smuggling cases over the years. San Antonio is a gateway to the Americas. And so from time to time we have seen these incidents. Our response obviously is a compassionate one. We figure out how we can help and save lives, and that's what we're doing right now.

BERMAN: And I know you say the investigation is in its preliminary stages, but any effort, was there any effort to actually care for these people, these human beings who were in the back of this truck? Any measures taken to make sure they could breathe, that they could stay cool, anything?

[08:10:01]

NIRENBERG: I can't speak for what was actually in the trailer at the time, obviously. That's the subject of an investigation. But I can tell you this -- this is probably the worst tragedy in terms of migrant -- migration that I know in recent history. And the people that are responsible for subjecting other people to these conditions should be prosecuted to the fullest extent to the law. We do have three persons of interest who are in custody. And so you can rest assure that we will cooperate in any way necessary to bring justice to those individuals. Meantime, we're asking for prayers, obviously, for those fighting for their lives as well as the deceased and their loved ones.

BERMAN: Broadly speaking, what is the connection with these persons of interest to the incident?

NIRENBERG: I can't speak to that. Obviously, there is going to be a lot of questions, and once that confirmation can be made, I'm sure that will be public, but obviously they are of interest, and we will find that out with the federal investigation shortly.

BERMAN: Very quickly, this is symptomatic of what in your mind? How does this speak to the situation at the border?

NIRENBERG: Well, clearly Congress's inability to reform our immigration system is causing -- or is manifesting in a lot of ways that are simply tragic. And by and large migration through our community has increased over the years. It is not specific to one particular administration. But it is a -- just a sad irony and a sad truth that while we have millions of jobs, thousands in our own community that are unfilled because just not enough workers, we can't figure out a way in this country to put people who want to go to work to work. And keep in mind, most of the food that people have on their tables is produced, picked, harvested by folks who are coming here to do that kind of work. And so the loss of life is tragic. It's unnecessary, and it's a product of inaction within the federal government over decades.

BERMAN: Mayor Ron Nirenberg of San Antonio, we are sorry for the loss in your community. We appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you.

NIRENBERG: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Vice President Kamala Harris speaking to CNN for first time since Roe versus Wade was overturned. What the White House now plans to do about it.

And "Full House" Star Jodie Sweetin shoved to the ground by police at an abortion rights protest. She will join us live on NEW DAY.

KEILAR: Plus, we're going to speak to the high school football coach who fought for his right to pray on the field following games. His reaction to his landmark victory with the Supreme Court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:37]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I never believed them. I didn't believe them. I didn't believe them. That's why I voted against them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: That was Vice President Kamala Harris telling our Dana Bash she never believed former President Trump's Supreme Court picks when they said what they said about Roe v. Wade, talking about it being settled law.

We're back now with CNN anchor Chris Wallace. I wonder what you thought about that answer, Chris.

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: I thought it was a pretty good answer. From her point of view, to say, you know, I didn't believe that these two conservatives who gave some deference to Roe v. Wade were necessarily going to be bound by that, and it turns out -- you know, if you look back at what Gorsuch and Kennedy told the committee and also here -- sorry, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh told the committee, and then hear what they said in private meetings with people like Senator Susan Collins, you could understand where they might feel mollified or reassured they wouldn't do what they ended up doing last week.

But I think Kamala Harris was probably more realistic in saying, they're going to give me a lot of legal jumbo. The lawyers are pretty good at parsing words, and when they actually got in the court, they were going to do something different.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Dana pressed the vice president, Chris, on questions that a lot of Democrats, a lot of progressives are asking now of the White House, why aren't you doing more now to step in and fix this, that the Supreme Court has acted? Why aren't you trying to create situations where there can be abortions on federal land? Why won't you try to get rid of the filibuster?

How much pressure do you think the White House is feeling now?

WALLACE: Well, I'm sure from the left wing of the party, they're feeling quite a lot. I thought Dana did a very good interview, she always does, she particularly pressed her on the issue of filibuster. And, you know, the -- the answer was we don't have the votes and they don't have the votes and think about it, over the course of the last few months, how many issues have there been where people said, well, on this one issue, whether it is voting rights or guns or abortion, let's have a carve-out on the filibuster for that one issue, well, the problem is everybody has got their one issue and, of course, if you kill the filibuster so with a simple majority, you can reverse and create a federal law protecting the right to an abortion, then when the Republicans come in, as they may well in January, with a majority, they could undo that with a simple majority.

So, you know, I can understand the practical and the political reasons why the -- this administration and every administration says let's not turn the Senate into the House, where majority rules, because then you could have a whipsaw back and forth on all of these issues. You know, if you don't need any bipartisan buy-in, you're not going to get any bipartisan buy-in.

KEILAR: You know, Chris, when you look at this court, it is not really where public opinion is. I think justice -- on this issue, Chief Justice John Roberts was perhaps a little more closer to the mark on this. What are the ramifications, if there are any, of that being the case?

[08:20:01]

WALLACE: Well, first of all, I think we would all agree you wouldn't want a court to be ruled by public opinion. You know, the -- that's not the -- what the justices pledged to. Well, we're going to look at the polls, they pledged to the Constitution when they raised their hand and take the oath.

And, you know, I was recently reading a book about the '50s and it was fascinating because you look back at what everybody considers the landmark Supreme Court ruling of the 20th century, which is Brown versus Board of Education, in 1954, which said that separate but equal doesn't exist and that you had to desegregate schools. The court knew, reluctant to take up the case, and when it took up the case, it was very measured and took a few decisions because they knew particularly in the South, this was going to be absolutely explosive.

The one difference with that versus this decision is, yes, it's obviously very explosive, but half the states in the country and particularly the bluest states where there is the most support for the right to an abortion where they're going to continue to be able to get it. This said to the Deep South, where they have firm laws and a century of history against desegregation, you're going to have to change.

So, you know, the court often goes against public opinion and with very deep felt beliefs and, you know, people say has the court lost its credibility. You know, up to this point it appears everybody is going to obey the court order. So, it seems whether you like the ruling or not, that the court's authority and the authority of the court only comes from public acceptance, but the authority of the court stands.

KEILAR: Chris, we're so thrilled to have you on this morning as always. You should join us every morning. Every morning, Chris Wallace. It's not that early.

BERMAN: This is a courtship. This is -- you know, the process, courting Chris Wallace to be on the show regularly.

KEILAR: All the time.

WALLACE: It should be a movie "Chasing Chris Wallace," there you go. If you want more, I'll be on for the hearings all -- incidentally, I want to apologize to Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia, I called him Jeff Kemp, who was a real person, but he's not the governor of Georgia.

KEILAR: A lot of Jeffries in the news lately. That's the problem. There are so many.

BERMAN: Jeff Kemp, a quarterback, right, at one point.

WALLACE: That was Jack Kemp. Jack Kemp was a national -- I didn't want to say this, a national secured adviser to Ronald Reagan, whom I knew. That takes me back a little bit.

BERMAN: Matt Kemp, baseball player. Anyway, we can go on and on.

Chris Wallace, you're still our favorite and the favorite of the Kemp family.

WALLACE: Oh, you tell that to Jake Tapper all the time.

BERMAN: Appreciate it. Be well.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: All right. There's some new reporting from "Axios" that Republican leaders are increasingly fearful about a red wave ushering in a raft of conspiracy theorists and extremists. BERMAN: A new CNN reporting this morning on the White House losing

some confidence in Ukraine's -- the possibility that Ukraine can retake some of the ground that Russia has conquered.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:14]

BERMAN: In just a few hours, the January 6th Committee will hold a previously unannounced hearing in which it will present recently obtained evidence and feature live testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, a former aide to Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows.

Joining us now is the former communications director for Jeb Bush's 2016 presidential campaign, Tim Miller. He's also a writer at "The Bulwark" and author of the brand-new book, I mean, brand new, "Why We Did It: A Travel Log from the Republican Road to Hell."

Time, it's great to see you here --

TIM MILLER, AUTHOR, "WHY WE DID": So happy to do it with y'all.

BERMAN: -- at the table at CNN.

Listen, inside your book, the reason the Cassidy Hutchinson thing is so interesting today, inside your book, you talk about being a Republican staffer in different areas in different locations for different people, and the various pushes and pulls that you have there. What kind of pressure do you think she's feeling as she faces the country today?

MILLER: She's under a ton of pressure. I think this is one of the big questions I wanted to get to, is that there are so many of my former colleagues and friends who knew better, who told me they knew better, than go along with all the worst of Trump, but they did so anyway.

And the shocking thing about the past seven years, the thing hard to grapple with, why more people didn't do what Cassidy is doing today. And I think that she is obviously going to be getting a lot of pressure from the party, she'll have security issues today, but more than that, it is just this culture. You get into the bubble, political D.C. bubble, you excuse everything, everybody is, like, well, everyone else is going along with this and we have to do it right for the Republicans to win and if you speak out, you're a traitor to the team.

And so, there is this social pressure that congeals in Washington and I think what I learned is just how many people get so wrapped up in that, that they felt unable to step out. So, I think it is amazing she's doing it today and we'll see exactly what she has to say.

KEILAR: She has changed lawyers, so she's moved away from a lawyer kind of recommended by Trump world or within Trump world. How do you think that changes things in terms of what interests she may have that she is going to pursue?

MILLER: Look, I think big time. You know, if you had a lawyer from Trump world, they're going to have conflicting advice, right? And I think to me this is a sign she wanted to be more proactive. The fact she's testifying publicly today, that she's looking for a lawyer that wants to work with her, to get as much information out as possible.

BERMAN: Tim, your book is really interesting. It talks a lot about you and your personal journey, different jobs and different Republican campaigns and whatnot, but it also gets us to today, through January 6th, and one of the most interesting things, one of the best chapters is where you sit down with someone who is an acquaintance of yours who was sort of there at January 6th. And you tried to understand what got her to that point and how she looks at it now.

What are the lessons in that?

MILLER: Yeah.