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Tim Miller is Interviewed about His New Book; Joe Kennedy is Interviewed about Supreme Court Ruling; Jodie Sweetin is Interviewed about Protesting; Doubts over Ukraine's Land Lost. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired June 28, 2022 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And you try to understand what got her to that point and how she looks at it now.
What are the lessons in that?
TIM MILLER, AUTHOR, "WHY WE DID IT: A TRAVELOGUE FROM THE REPUBLICAN ROAD TO HELL": Yes. Well, look, I felt -- just to start with, quick, I felt like I had to look at myself because it's - it's - you know, you can't understand why other people enable and go along with evil things unless you look at like the times that you fell short, right? And so I felt like the book had to really reflect on that.
Look, I'm gay. I'm married. I work for people who are against gay marriage. Like, how did I justify that? And so I had to come to terms with that, I think, before I could kind of turn the camera and judgmental friends who went along with Trump.
And so, you know, in this case, with Caroline, who was more than an acquaintance, she was a pretty good friend of mine, you know, she was -- her name was on the -- whatever it is called -
BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE), right?
MILLER: Yes, no, her name - no, her name was on that -- at The Mall, you know, to sign up. You know, she was, like, an advance person, who was organizing the rally at The Mall. So it wasn't like she just showed up. She was one of the people who was helping to organize that rally before January 6th.
And I saw that in the news. I was writing this book and I called her, I said, will you meet with me? Can we sit down? I mean she worked with me on John Huntsman's campaign. The most moderate Republican to run for president in my lifetime. And I was, like, I thought we agreed on everything. Like, how is this possible that I've gone full never Trump and you're there on January 6th?
And what I learned is that she was kind of this amalgamation of all of the justifications that all of my old colleagues had. You know, she had really come to dislike the left and have a deep grievance towards the left. She felt like she -- there was nothing else that she could do with her life. You know, she was a Republican operative and if I quit this what else am I going to do? She didn't listen to the criticism, right? She compartmentalized the
criticisms of Donald Trump and just focused on the things that she liked. And through all these justifications, you know, found herself right in the middle - right in the middle of this. And I -- she didn't know what was coming. And this storm happened on January 6th and she was watching it from the hotel room and I think for the first time really had, you know, had to think about, you know, the choices that had led her there.
BERMAN: Tim Miller, you're a terrific writer.
MILLER: Thank you.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It's very funny. It is hilarious.
BERMAN: Really, really you're a great writer and there's stuff in this book and conversations that you have that I just haven't seen before. So, thank you for coming on and sharing it with us. Congratulations on our work.
MILLER: Guys, thank you so much. Love you all.
BERMAN: The book is "Why We Did It" and it is out now, today.
The landmark Supreme Court victory for our next guest who fought for his right to pray on the school football field following games. The coach at the center of the ruling joins us ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:36:30]
KEILAR: The Supreme Court has ruled that a football coach at a public high school did have the right to pray on the field after games. Joe Kennedy began his prayer ritual in 2008, but the Bremerton School District in Washington state grew concerned after several years when players began to join him. The school offered Kennedy an alternative place to pray, away from public view, but Kennedy refused. And he was ultimately placed on administrative leave and suspended from coaching. He sued, arguing that the school district had violated his First Amendment right to free speech, and the Supreme Court agreed with him.
In a 6-3 decision, Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch writing for the majority, respect for religious expressions is indispensable to life in a free and diverse republic, whether those expressions take place in a sanctuary or on a field and whether they manifest through the spoken word or a bowed head.
Joining us now is the plaintiff in that case, Joe Kennedy, as well as his attorney, Kelly J. Shackelford.
Thank you, gentlemen, for both of you being with us. I do appreciate it.
Coach, to you first, how did it feel when you learned of this decision? JOE KENNEDY, FORMER FOOTBALL COACH AT CENTER OF SUPREME COURT RULING:
I was a little shocked at first because everybody said, there it is, and everybody was reading it and nobody was telling me what the heck anything said. So, I was so glad the lawyers finally told me.
And it was just a big sigh of relief that, you know, I didn't do anything wrong, I think this is just a great day for every American. It really shows, you know, the diversity and the inclusion of exactly what America is about.
KEILAR: Is it what you expected?
KENNEDY: I kind of did. There has been so many people that have been positively reporting on this. You guys have supported us. And it's just been wonderful. So I was very optimistic about going into this because I think everybody has the exact same freedom. You know, people -- faith, people of no faith, of different faith, that's what America is all about, is being able to just enjoy our freedoms.
KEILAR: I do want to be clear, we cover this, we don't take a position on it, just to be clear. We certainly are very interested in this case.
I do want to ask you something. Justice Sotomayor said in her dissenting opinion, she said, today's decision is particularly misguided because it elevates the religious rights of a school official who voluntarily accepted public employment and the limits that public employment entails over those of his students who are required to attend school and who this court has long recognized are particularly vulnerable and deserving of protection.
What is your reaction to that, Coach?
KENNEDY: I didn't understand the -- her reasoning behind they needed to be protected from seeing somebody who's doing a prayer. That part still baffles me.
But, you know, the great thing about our democracy is that everybody is allowed to have their own opinions and she -- I was glad she shared hers.
KEILAR: If you were watching this, Coach, and this wasn't you, right, this wasn't your case, but it was another coach's case, and it was Muslim prayer, and they had prevailed, would you feel the same about it being a victory?
KENNEDY: Oh, absolutely. That's a great thing - you know, that's why I supported and defended the Constitution as -- when I was a Marine for 20 years. I believe in equal -- equality for everybody. It doesn't matter if it's a person of different faith, or people that have absolutely no faith.
[08:40:02]
The best thing in the world for America is having our freedoms and the Constitution and our amendments. KEILAR: Kelly, you know, some critics are looking at this and they are
concerned that this spells the demise or the end or certainly knocking down some separation of church and state.
What do you -- how do you see it? What do you say to that?
KELLY J. SHACKELFORD, ATTORNEY FOR FORMER FOOTBALL COACH JOE KENNEDY: Well, of course, Brianna, number one, the word separation of church and state aren't in the Constitution. And so, you know, it really focuses on the two religion clauses. But that concept in and of itself is a great one. It's talking about the separation of the institutions of the church and the state. We don't want the church to be the state, the state to be the church.
Of course here, there is no institution of the church. It's the powerful state versus an individual, Joe Kennedy. And what's great about America is, even though the state is incredibly powerful, there's one thing more powerful in this country, and it is the United States Constitution, which protects the individual rights of people like Joe. So when that ruling came down yesterday and said, this violates free speech, it violates free exercise, the individual rights of this one citizen, that was a win for every American.
KEILAR: Coach, you've won this case. But, you know, you've gone on to another job in another state. Do you want to go back to your old job? Is it too late to do that for you?
KENNEDY: Definitely not too late for me. Yes, I am living in another state, taking care of my father-in-law. But this has always been a temporary thing. I have my family, all our kids, my grandkids, my parents, all my friends are up in Washington. That's our home. We just have been, you know, kind of doing our own life, waiting for the court to get done with this. You know, it's been a seven-year trip. So, I couldn't just sit idly by. I had to do something for a little while. And I'll be on the first flight back as soon as the school reaches out to us and we work out the details.
KEILAR: So, moving forward, as you go back, assuming that all works out and the details work out, and you go back to this ritual that you had before, how do you make sure that all students feel included, whether they are Christian or they are Muslim or they're Jewish or they're even atheist?
KENNEDY: Awesome question. And that's really simple. I'm going to go back to the practice that I attended and my commitment at the very beginning to God was, just to say a prayer of thanks alone. And that's all it's going to go back to be. While they're off doing the fight song and there's no other students around me, I'm just going to take a knee for, you know, five, ten seconds, and just thank God. It's going to be exactly the way it started out and the way it ended of me being alone on the 50.
KEILAR: Well, Coach Kennedy, we know this has been a long process for you. We appreciate you sharing your story with us today.
And Kelly Shackelford, thank you for being with us. KENNEDY: You guys are awesome. Thank you.
SHACKELFORD: Thank you.
KEILAR: "Full House" actress Jodie Sweetin joining us live after being pushed to the ground by LAPD officers during an abortion rights protest.
BERMAN: And can Ukraine win back all of the territory it has lost to Russia. Some in the White House now having doubts. We have new CNN reporting ahead.
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[08:47:31]
BERMAN: So, this video is making waves. It shows actress Jodie Sweetin, who played Stephanie Tanner on the sitcom "Full House," being shoved to the ground by police during an abortion rights demonstration in Los Angeles. That protest and others throughout the country we in response to the Supreme Court ruling that overturned Roe v. Wade.
And Jodie Sweetin joins us now.
Jodie, thank you so much for being with us.
Just explain to us what happened there. The moments before, during and after.
JODIE SWEETIN, ACTRESS/ACTIVIST: You know, there was a crowd of us out there that were really passionate and, you know, marching about this incredible injustice in the Supreme Court. And right before that, I - you know, everyone had been gathered there and there was a police line. We weren't moving froward on the - on the, you know, towards the freeway or towards any cars.
And I was coming around the other side and, you know, everyone was kind of gathered in front of the police and some distance back and they were walking me back. And, you know, I just felt my backpack pulled as I was, you know, walking forward.
And, you know, at the end of the day, I - my - I guess my biggest concern is to consistently bring this back to, you know, why we were out there. And that it's not about me, you know. I guess people are shocked because it's a video about somebody that they've, you know, grown up with and that they know, but, you know, it's really important to me for people to see the cause why we were out there.
KEILAR: But it's also important to talk about how people are being treated, right? I mean we're seeing protests everywhere.
SWEETIN: Well, that's -- that's part of the - that's -- yes, that's definitely part of the reason also, you know, police brutality and the way protesters are treated. I mean this isn't my first time out in the streets. This is one of the more mild things I've seen happen to protesters I've seen protesters get hit by cars. I've seen, you know, them denied medical service. I've seen all sorts of things done to protesters by police at times when we're out there in the streets.
KEILAR: So, the LAPD says they're aware of a video clip of a woman, which is you, being pushed to the ground by officers, not allowing the group to enter on foot and overtake the 101 freeway. The force used will be evaluated against the LAPD's policy and procedure. As the nation continues to wrestle with the latest Supreme Court decision, the Los Angeles Police Department will continue to facilitate First Amendment rights while protecting life and property.
You know, what do you say to that and what do you think should have happened here?
SWEETIN: I mean, you know, I -- when I - when we were out there that day, and I posted several other videos too.
[08:50:02]
You know, they were trying to take people's bikes who were on the front line. There's some videos, some young girls, maybe 15 or 16, that are also, you know, being wrestled to the ground by officers. You know, it was -- there was a lot of passion and a lot of heat out there.
I - you know, at the end of the day, I'm not going after the LAPD. I'm not, you know, I'm not suing anybody. That's not the point of any of this. I didn't even release the video, you know. All of this is to just constantly draw attention back to the ideas of, you know, police brutality, victims' families, women's rights, you know, all of these things that I'm so passionate about. And, you know, I don't know what the right answer would have been, but, you know, the police had the freeway blocked off. We -- there was no one going forward. That they had the off ramp blocked off. It was, you know, it was pretty clear that no one was going on the freeway, so.
BERMAN: So, talk to us about why you were there. Talk to us about your activism.
SWEETIN: You know, I have been out involved in protests since probably right around the George Floyd movement. I've been involved before, but that was when I really found a much more consistent passion for my activism that I really - I just knew I had to keep showing up all the time.
And you'll forgive me, my voice is really hoarse from yelling on Friday and Saturday and being out there at protests.
But, you know, I'm passionate about doing things that affect other people. You know, here in California, yes, we're a sanctuary state, we're codifying it into our state constitution, but there are women all over the country, you know, I'm a mom of two girls who are 14 and 12 years old and I realize that their lives would be entirely different if I lived, you know, one or two states over. And that kind of scare, as a mom, I just, you know, that's - that's -- I know what -- my mom spent her life fighting for was to make sure that we had the right to choose and to know that my daughters are going to grow up with less rights than I had is just -- is really horrific and really shocking.
And to know that, you know, people focus on police brutality more when, you know, an actress that they know gets tossed, you know, to the ground rather than, you know, a person of color being severely injured, I just want to keep bringing the attention back to that fact.
KEILAR: Jodie, what is your message for lawmakers in Washington and do you think that Democrats are doing all they can do to make the changes you want to see made?
SWEETIN: No, I don't - I don't think that the Democrats are doing all that they can do. But I also think that that's in large part, you know, based on the systems that we've had in place now for, gosh, the last ten years of complete, you know, there's a constant impasse. We're never able to rally pass anything. And, you know, the right fights really hard and they can fight together and the left tends to pick itself apart.
And, you know, it's -- it can be really frustrating because, you know, to the Supreme Court, I just want to say that my daughters deserve a right to choose whether or not they become a parent, what their life looks like, whether or not they bring children into a world that's full of climate change and full of all of these things. And I just -- I'm in shock that in 2022, in America, we have lost that right to choose, you know?
And I keep saying, you know, in places like Iceland in the '70s, you know, Mexico City recently, (INAUDIBLE) women really stood up. There were national strikes. There were things that women did that really caused a disruption to daily life that got the point across and things happened and things change. And, you know, if the Democratic Party isn't going to do it, then I feel like it's relied upon us as the people to stand up and really fight for what we believe in.
BERMAN: Jodie Sweetin, thanks for coming on this morning. We know it's early for you. We do appreciate it.
SWEETIN: Absolutely. I just hope everyone is paying attention to the causes out there because this is not about me.
BERMAN: President Biden about to land in Spain for the NATO summit as the U.S. reassesses Ukraine's positioning against Russia.
KEILAR: Plus, a witness who has been central to their investigation is going to be front and center at today's surprise January 6th committee hearing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:58:31]
BERMAN: We have new CNN reporting that the White House is growing less confident that Ukraine will ever be able to reclaim all of the land it has lost to Russia.
CNN's Natasha Bertrand has this new reporting from Madrid, where the president is about to arrive for the NATO summit.
Natasha, what are you learning?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, John, so the White House is increasingly pessimistic about Ukraine's ability to take back all the land that Russia has captured since February 24th, to go back to those February 23rd territorial lines which Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said would constitute a victory for the Ukrainian military.
White House and Biden administration officials are saying that that is becoming increasingly unlikely given the gains that we have seen Russia make in the eastern part of the country in the Donbas region. Russian forces now control about half of the Luhansk region in eastern Ukraine. So it is becoming increasingly difficult for Ukraine to get back that momentum and push the Russian forces out.
And that is despite, we should note, of course, all of the weaponry that the United States and its allies have continued to send to Ukraine. They have, of course, just announced a $450 million security package to Ukraine last week. They are going to be sending increased advanced antiaircraft systems to Ukraine. They do believe that Ukraine can capture some of that territory back, likely in a counteroffensive. But the question now is, has the Ukrainian state essentially shrunk and will the Ukrainian president need to acknowledge that reality as he moves forward in this war?
John.
[09:00:00]
BERMAN: All right, Natasha Bertrand for us again in Madrid for the NATO summit. Thank you for being there. We expect to hear much more from you in the coming days as this summit continues.
And, obviously, that's something that U.S. officials have been unwilling to say so far. It will be interesting to see if that in any way guides these meetings that are going to be taking place.
KEILAR: That's right.
CNN's coverage continues right now.