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Denver Riggleman is Interviewed about the Insurrection Hearings; Biden Unveils Enhanced U.S. Force Posture; Supreme Court Could Rule on Climate Case. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 29, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Had been in and out, setting up what was called a makeshift war room.

Joining us now is former senior technical adviser to the January 6th committee and former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman.

Congressman, always great to see you.

As much as we heard yesterday, as many big revelations as there were, you say it doesn't even get to some of the bigger issues, the operational planning for what happened on January 6th. What about that meeting or what was going on at the Willard Hotel, Mark Meadows' plans to go to the meeting and dial in, what does that tell us about the operational planning?

DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R), FORMER SENIOR TECHNICAL ADVISER TO JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE: Well, John, good morning.

And there's a few things that, you know, might be a little bit different than you've heard from other people, so I hope you're ready for this.

I think what the hearing did yesterday and why it was so important is that it established the individuals that were part of the planning, that were actually supportive of President Trump, but it also established the people that weren't. It also established President Trump's mindset.

But I want to talk to you about, John, and what I want to talk to the American people about is that it actually established a communications that it was going in and out. And there's two time blocks that I want the American people to know about. The seven hour and 37 minutes right in the call logs, but also the 187 minutes between 1:10 p.m. and 4:17 p.m. where President Trump is completely silent. Those two things are very important.

What you saw the committee do yesterday, and Cassidy Hutchinson, is they established there were communications during that time, they established that Mark Meadows was sort of the center of it. Even though we're talking about President Trump's mindset, I've always said that Mark Meadows is the MVP of the investigation, the pivot man, the person who knew all the moving parts that were happening simultaneously. He has to come in.

And I think the last thing you're going to see is that we saw John Eastman yesterday, and you saw that he said it's OK for the committee to get his call records now. That's the other issue that we have here is that when you look at an operational planning, you're looking at the data and the individuals that were talking to the president's staff, but also might have been talking to rally planners, might have been talking to state legislators, might have even had some kind of tangential or direct connection to those on the ground and the rioters that day. All that is still to come for the hearings, John. And I think that's what I found so fascinating about yesterday was how the committee set up to the prior five hearings, how they set up all the teams, all the investigative teams, they put a piece of every team, and Cassidy Hutchinson was the bridge to the rest of the hearings and to the operational planning that happened that day.

KEILAR: Are there other missing pieces?

RIGGLEMAN: Oh, my goodness, Brianna, that - it's a great question, you know. And, of course there are. And that's the thing is that when you see individuals that are fighting their data, you see individuals that are fighting, you know, the committee about call records, which you've seen in, you know, in reporting, that should - that should make Americans scratch their heads. If they're that, you know, sort of innocent of this, if they were really believing that the election was stolen, right, if they had the data and the proof, they should be talking to the committee right now.

But, again, it's an indicator, and I'm not trying to be glib about this or understate it, but it's a bit of an indicator when people are afraid to talk or they plead the Fifth. You know, people like Mike Flynn, that you saw yesterday, a former three star general, who really showed cowardice, right, and the inability to come forward and say, hey, this is what I really believe and didn't have any proof of that. All of that was sort of rapid into the hearing yesterday.

So, granted, there's so much more to come out. And, again, I think - I think the American people need to brace for what's coming in the rest of the hearings and also in the final report.

BERMAN: Look, to be clear, General Flynn took the Fifth on saying he supported the peaceful transfer of power, which is interesting in and of itself from a retired military general.

RIGGLEMAN: That's correct.

BERMAN: Denver, I do want to get you to talk more, though. You talked about the 187 minutes and the seven hours here. You say it gets to the communications. You say it begins to raise the questions about possible links between the White House and the people conducting the violence.

What are we going to see in this? Is there corroborating evidence that there was that communication?

RIGGLEMAN: I think what you're going to see -- and, John, again, you guys' questions are always so incisive because I don't want to take any thunder away from the committee, but I do think what you saw with Cassidy yesterday, and the bravery that she showed, and what you've seen in the five prior hearings, when it comes to intent, or mindset, or legal arguments, or alternate electors, all the things that you've seeing, as you move forward, you have to look at how the violence happened that day. What was the radicalization pipeline? Why were those people there, right?

And I think, when you have all these connections and all these people, right, that are involved in this, whether they thought it wasn't going to be violent or not, what actually it speaks to is, what did the White House know, what did the planners know, and was there any communications between them? And that kind of proof is tough to come by, but I think the committee sort of has their arms around how they want to proceed with these investigations. So, I think that's why the hearings that are coming up over the next, you know, few weeks or months, or even the final report, again, I think will be shocking to Americans.

And I'll say this, it's not just the criminal intent or activity that the committee can or can't prove or what the DOJ is doing, it also goes to judgment. And when you saw what Cassidy was saying about the people around the president, you talked about people that were willing to support the whims of somebody who did not care about law enforcement on the ground, or the people that day, anywhere, either in the Capitol Building or those that were storming the Capitol.

[08:35:16]

And that lack of care is really something that goes against every oath that I've ever taken for this country and every oath of every person who was around the president. I think it speaks to judgment. And I think, at this point, I would say that hearing yesterday really changed the mind of people. And I don't think it could happen, but I do believe you're starting to see a little bit of a shift away from Trump and toward others based on the judgment and based on sort of his lack of care about anything that was happening that day except for him trying to stay in power.

BERMAN: Former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman, who was working for the committee on the inside, thank you. I feel like there are some breadcrumbs here.

RIGGLEMAN: Thanks, John

BERMAN: Easter eggs, as they say -- as the kids like to say, about what we might see coming up.

RIGGLEMAN: What do I know?

BERMAN: I think you know a lot, frankly. I think you know a lot and I'd love for you to tell us at some point, but I do appreciate you coming and sharing what you can here, Denver. Appreciate it.

RIGGLEMAN: Thanks, John. BERMAN: President Biden, about to speak at the NATO summit in Madrid

after announcing new moves to strengthen U.S. positioning in Europe. We're going to go there live.

KEILAR: Plus, Colorado Republicans reject three election deniers for state wide office. What we learned from yesterday's high stakes primaries.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:23]

KEILAR: Happening now, President Biden meeting with the prime minister of Japan, and the president of South Korea at the NATO summit in Madrid.

And this is coming after the president's announcement this morning that the U.S. will be strengthening its forces in Europe, including new troop movements, equipment shipments and military installations.

Let's bring in CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward, and CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, joining us from Madrid, live here.

Jim, I know you have some new reporting on a heightened alert from Russia.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. What strikes me, and this is from speaking to White House officials this morning, is that the U.S. and its NATO allies are describing the threat from Russia, not just to Ukraine, but to other NATO partners on the eastern flank, no longer in theoretical terms. They describe the threat as very real. A clear and present danger, almost, which then informs these decisions, these new force deployments that we're seeing announced today. You have more fighter jets squadrons going to the eastern front. You have a permanent headquarters for the Fifth Army Corps that's going to be based in Poland. You have further force deployments, they call them rotational, but really you're going to have a couple hundred thousand troops - rather 100,000 troops now in Europe, far more than we had just a few weeks ago.

And the reason for that is because they believe the threat to those eastern flank countries is no longer theoretical. That it's something that they have to defend against better and they have to do so now.

BERMAN: So, Clarissa, what are the excuses that Vladimir Putin used to invade Ukraine was to halt NATO expansion, right? He said, you know, Ukraine wanted to join NATO and that NATO was making all these movements and Poland and other countries.

Well, what does he have now this morning? He's got more NATO troops headed to his border and he's getting two new nations joining NATO, including Finland, which just historically speaking, Clarissa, is just an anathema to Russia interests over the centuries.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. And that's what you heard President Biden say. President Biden said, you know, Russia had wanted the Finlandization of Europe. And, instead, what he's seeing is the NATOization. Finland shares an 800-mile border with Russia, that Russia will now be looking across at a NATO -- a new NATO member state. So there's no question that while President Putin very clearly wanted to rewrite the existing European security agreement, the sort of post-Cold War reality here in Europe, he has done that, but it has been rewritten in very starkly different terms from what he would have liked to see.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WARD: At the same point - at the same time, though, John, I do think there's a sense here that President Putin really feels he can play the long game on this one. And he looks at President Macron and President Biden and Prime Minister Boris Johnson. He sees how they're facing various political issues and challenges at home.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WARD: And he's banking on the fat that because Russia is willing and already engaged in weaponizing energy, weaponizing food, because of soaring inflation, that he will be able to last longer and to protract this conflict for months on end.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WARD: And so that really becomes the sort of main challenge for all the leaders here, even as they strengthen the alliance with all the significance that that brings with it is how long can it maintain this posture and what price is it willing to pay for that?

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's a standoff. Because even on the economic front, John and Brianna, the view from European diplomats is that Russia believes, whether it's true or not is an open question, but it believes that it can withstand the economic pressure better, in effect, than west can, right?

The sanctions are biting, no question. You had a default this week. But they also see inflation rising here in Europe and in the U.S. They know that winter is going to be coming and energy is going to be more expensive.

So, both on the defense front, on the war on the ground in Ukraine and the economic front, Russia believes they can stand longer. Whether that's true, we'll see.

WARD: And President Vladimir Putin doesn't answer to the Russian people.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WARD: He doesn't answer to voters. And he understands that liberal democracies do. Which makes their positions more vulnerable, and which means that these leaders are going to have their work cut out for them in the coming months as this - as this conflict roils on in shoring up support from voters, that they'll keep taking those hits in terms of rising food and energy prices and keep committing to supporting Ukraine's efforts in fighting Russia and this war.

KEILAR: Clarissa and Jim, thank you so much for the very latest there from Madrid and the NATO summit.

[08:45:00]

We are awaiting a new ruling from the Supreme Court in what could be one of the most consequential climate decisions in decades.

BERMAN: Serena Williams out in the first round of Wimbledon. But will it be her last? What she revealed about her future on the court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Time now for the "5 Things to Know for Your New Day."

Explosive testimony from a former top aide to Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. It could mean significantly more legal jeopardy for former President Trump. Cassidy Hutchinson told the January 6th committee, Trump knew that many of the people at his rally were heavily armed, but still demanded that they be let in to watch him and he wanted to lead them in their march to the Capitol.

[08:50:01]

KEILAR: Several election deniers denied in Republican primary races in Colorado. CNN projects Ron Hanks will be defeated by Joe O'Dea in the Senate primary. And in Colorado's GOP gubernatorial race, CNN projects Greg Lopez has lost to Heidi Ganahl.

BERMAN: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi receiving communion at a papal mass at the Vatican. Now, she did not get communion from Pope Francis himself. Just last month, the conservative archbishop of San Francisco said Pelosi may no longer receive the holy sacrament in that archdiocese because of her support of abortion rights.

KEILAR: Authorities say two men are being charged in connection to the deaths of 51 migrants trapped inside of an abandoned semitruck in sweltering heat. Thirty-nine men and 12 women died in this unprecedented smuggling tragedy in Texas.

BERMAN: A dramatic loss for tennis star Serena Williams in a first round Wimbledon singles match. But the seven-time Wimbledon champ says this does not mean she will not be back next year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERENA WILLIAMS, 23-TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMPION: That's a question I can't answer. Like, I don't know. I feel like -- you know, I don't know. Who knows? Who knows where I'll pop up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Those are "5 Things to Know for Your New Day." More on these stories all day on CNN and cnn.com. And don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning. Go to cnn.com/5things. You can also find it wherever you get your podcasts.

BERMAN: She lost, but she played like the champion that she is yesterday. That was an incredible match and I wouldn't count her out of anything.

As for Nancy Pelosi, it is so interesting to watch the difference between what's happening here in the United States and at the Vatican itself. Clearly, Pope Francis, although he didn't deliver the communion himself, he has a different view of who should be able to receive communion in the Catholic Church. He feels it should be everyone, even as, in the United States, you have more conservative archbishops in the like saying if you support abortion rights, we won't do it.

KEILAR: Even if he's not delivering it, it's pretty clear that if he didn't want her to receive it, she's not going to get it, right?

BERMAN: Clearly. A clear statement.

KEILAR: So it sends such a statement.

BERMAN: All right, today, the Supreme Court could issue one of the most consequential climate decisions in decades if the court limits the EPA's authority to regulate power plant emissions. This could set back the Biden administration's plans to fight the climate crisis.

CNN's Rene Marsh here with this.

This decision will be huge, Rene.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It will. And it is not debatable. We know that high concentrations of greenhouse gases warm the planet, it fuels extreme and erratic weather conditions. And what we have is West Virginia's attorney general, along with Republican attorney generals for more than a dozen other states and two coal companies, they're arguing that Congress, not the EPA, should regulate these greenhouse gas emissions from power plants.

This case is so consequential for three reasons. The U.S. has historically emitted more greenhouse gases than any other nation. The power sector is the second largest emitter of greenhouse gases. And emissions continue to climb. So, a ruling that curbs the EPA's authority would dramatically undercut the federal government's ability to address climate change. It's like telling someone, you can cut the lawn, but you take away their lawn mower, which is the most effective tool to do the job. Regulating these emissions from the second largest source of one of -- is one of the most effective ways to dramatically reduce these emissions in the small window that scientists have said that we have.

Of course, this is coming at a time where large swaths of the United States are seeing heat waves, we're seeing longer than usual wildfire seasons. We expect a more active hurricane season, so climate change is not on our front step, it is in our living rooms and sitting on our couch. And so this ruling is coming at such a critical time, really, for the planet. BERMAN: Yes, really changed the way the nation, the federal

government, deals with climate change.

MARSH: Yes.

BERMAN: May kick it back to the states. May force Congress it take action, although that's been something that's been very difficult to happen over the last several decades.

Rene Marsh, thank you so much.

MARSH: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, new fallout from the testimony by former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson about Donald Trump's actions on January 6th itself. Why this could put him in more legal jeopardy than ever.

KEILAR: Plus, some prime California beachfront property returned to its rightful owner years later, after nearly a century. "The Good Stuff" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:58:53]

KEILAR: Time now for "The Good Stuff."

Some prime beachfront property in Manhattan Beach, California, look at it, it's beautiful, and it's finally back where it belongs, in the hands of the heirs of Willa and Charles Bruce. The couple first purchased the land in 1912, and they turned Bruce's Beach into a popular resort for black families, before it was seized a dozen years later under the guise of eminent domain.

On Tuesday, L.A. County moved to right a near century old wrong, returning Bruce's Beach to its rightful heirs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BRUCE, DESCENDANT OF BLACK COUPLE WHO WAS ROBBED OF THEIR LAND: It's like being on top of the world, honestly. But it is also a great reminder of the horrible past that we had as a family. And I don't want anybody to overlook that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Anthony Bruce says he hopes this can be a precedent for paying back those wronged by systemic racism.

BERMAN: So, finally, the Colorado Avalanche gearing up for the Stanley Cup victory parade tomorrow. And one of best traditions in sports anywhere is every player gets to take the cup home for a day and do whatever he want with it.

Well, captain Gabriel Landeskog let his two-year-old daughter use it as a giant sippy cup. [09:00:00]

So, here's the thing. You know, like, usually what's in the Stanley Cup is not apple juice, right?

KEILAR: No, it's not.

BERMAN: It's not apple juice.

KEILAR: Hopefully it was there, though.

BERMAN: Hopefully it was in this case. But that's sort of the cutest thing.

KEILAR: Oh, it's -- she's exactly the height of the Stanley Cup.

BERMAN: That's fantastic. Look at that there.

Well, congratulations to the entire family.

CNN's coverage continues right now.