Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

House January 6th Committee Hints Possible Charges against President Trump of Witness Tampering; Some Disputing Cassidy Hutchinson's Testimony that President Trump Tried to Grab Steering Wheel from Secret Service Agent During January 6th; Large Number of Flights Canceled in U.S. at Beginning of Fourth of July Weekend; Brittney Griner's Trial Begins in Moscow Courtroom. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 01, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Her message to President Biden this morning.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: America is about to hit the road and the skies for a busy Fourth of July weekend, how the travel industry is bracing for impact.

And he went from the number one overall draft pick to being called the biggest bust in baseball history. Now the Phillies pitcher is making a striking comeback and joins us live on NEW DAY.

KEILAR: Good morning to viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. It is Friday, July 1st.

Cassidy Hutchinson, the star witness of the January 6th hearings, telling the committee that she was contacted by someone in Trump world who tried to influence her testimony. This is according to three sources. We now know Hutchinson was one of the two witnesses who received threatening messages that were shown at this week's hearing. According to committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney, that's just a fraction of the evidence they have related to possible witness intimidation.

BERMAN: And this morning "The New York Times" reports that Trump's political organization and his allies paid for or promised to cover the legal fees of more than a dozen witnesses called to testify in the January 6th investigation. It does raise for some ethical and legal questions about the possibility of witnesses being pressured and the possibility of Trump trying to influence testimony that has a direct bearing on him.

Joining us now is John Wood. He was until last week a senior investigator for the January 6th committee. He was a U.S. attorney during the George W. Bush administration. He also clerked for Justice Clarence Thomas, and he is now running as an independent candidate for the Senate in Missouri. Thank you so much for being with us, Counselor. When you were with the committee, what was your knowledge of how the attorneys for some of these witnesses being deposed were being paid for, and what, if any, concerns does that raise for you? JOHN WOOD, FORMER SENIOR INVESTIGATOR, JANUARY 6TH SELECT COMMITTEE:

So some of the witnesses were being paid, their attorneys, that is, were being paid for by political groups associated with Donald Trump. That's not illegal, and I don't think there is anything necessarily unethical about it. But it does run the risk that they would be less cooperative than they would be if they had attorneys who were advising them who were being paid by the client, in other words, the witness themselves.

KEILAR: You have a situation where, I think, we can understand they may not be embroiled in these legal issues were it not for their association with the former president. Many of them obviously welcoming that assistance with what can become a very, very expensive process here. Talk about where it goes from that benefit to them, to then going to witness tampering and what you know about that.

WOOD: Yes, well, the attorney has an obligation to look out for their clients' interests, regardless of who is paying the bill. So they can't be looking out for Donald Trump's witnesses or anybody else who is paying for the bills. They have to look out just for the client's interests. That alone, having a witness have their fees paid for by Donald Trump or a political group associated with Donald Trump doesn't rise to the level of being witness tampering.

But if you start sending messages either directly or indirectly to the witnesses that are designed to influence the testimony in any way, then you start getting into legal issues. And that's what Liz Cheney hinted at at the last hearing, in which the committee I think is going to dig further to see if there is evidence of witness tampering. And she didn't make any mention of a criminal referral, but she certainly hinted that was something they were considering.

BERMAN: And to be clear, sorry to interrupt you, and to be clear, CNN is reporting that Cassidy Hutchinson herself told the committee that she did receive a message from someone in Trump world that she perceived to be trying to influence her testimony. How big after a deal in your mind is that?

WOOD: It's a very big deal. It's something that the committee needs to look into and potentially refer to the Justice Department. I'm sure the person who sent the message, and according to the media it was Mark Meadows, but I don't have any personal knowledge of that, the person who sent the message will say, oh, no, I just meant it innocently. But the way those messages sound, it certainly sounds like they were intended to influence in some way Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony.

KEILAR: She recounted a story told to her, or an account told to her by Tony Ornato, then the White House department chief of staff. Now he's in a leadership administrative position with the Secret Service, that's his background. But she recounted something that he was telling her about how Donald Trump had basically tried to accost a Secret Service detail, he tried to turn the steering wheel and go up to the Capitol. And you now have Tony Ornato through the Secret Service pushing back on that account, trying to undermine Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony. [08:05:02]

Can you tell us anything about what you know of Tony Ornato's interviews before the committee, how much of it was, I don't recall, I don't recall?

WOOD: So I did sit in on one of the interviews that Tony Ornato did, but I really can't comment on the substance of that because that was all confidential and has not been released by the committee yet. But I will say in general I thought that Cassidy Hutchinson in her public testimony came across as very credible and someone who doesn't have any incentive to lie.

I think the committee has to go back to Tony Ornato and press him on her allegations, and if he disputes them, then they have to do what any finder of fact does, which is assess the credibility of the evidence overall and make a determination of who is more credible.

BERMAN: Let me ask you this way. Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy who is on the committee, said in her mind there were some hazy answers that Tony Ornato gave. He didn't seem to have a good recollection of a lot of stuff. Adam Kinzinger, who also sits on the committee, on Twitter basically retweeted some stuff and said there is a basic common thread here on what he was seeing on Twitter that Tony Ornato lies. This was Adam Kinzinger said there. Do you have any reason to question Congresswoman Murphy or Congressman Kinzinger in their opinions here?

WOOD: So I can't say anything about what I witnessed during the private interview that was conducted of Tony Ornato. But I will say I don't have any reason to dispute what the members said.

KEILAR: What is the -- that maybe speaks hypothetically about this, because we don't know what Tony Ornato said specifically to the committee. But what would a problem be with a witness who maybe doesn't speak to an incident, and then is trying to say later that that account didn't happen. Is that problematic ever when you have someone who is trying to say, well, I would have remembered if that had happened, even if the recollection that they would give in deposition is pretty vague?

WOOD: So, the interview with Tony Ornato that I sat in on was before Cassidy Hutchinson had made her allegations about the president trying to grab the steering wheel. Now, so the committee didn't have a reason to ask specifically about that incident because they didn't know about it at the time. It's the kind of thing, though, you would think that he would have brought up if it happened. And so I think they have to go back and press him on did it happen, and if so, why didn't he tell the committee about it when he was interviewed previously.

BERMAN: Or exactly what did happen? You can always ask that, if that didn't happen the way you said it did, tell us what did.

Let me ask you this. We have at least two hearings left, we think, we have been told, over the next few weeks, maybe as soon as next week. And the committee has sort of teased that one of the things they'll look into is the possible connective tissue between the White House itself and perhaps the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers. Do you have visibility on how they intend to make this case, to provide this connective tissue to the American people?

WOOD: Yes, so I can't really preview for you what is going to happen at the upcoming hearings based on anything that I know from my service with the committee, but I will say in general that I think what Donald Trump did really enflamed emotions, and regardless of whether he had direct connections with the Oath Keepers or Proud Boys, he certainly should have known that his words and his actions could enflame things and that he should have known what the possible consequences could have been of his conduct.

BERMAN: John Wood, it's great to have you on this morning. You speak look a careful attorney, and we respect that. And we do appreciate the insight you have given us.

WOOD: Thanks so much for having me on.

KEILAR: July 4th weekend could prove to be one of the busiest times for air travel since the beginning of the pandemic. But bad weather and airline staffing issues plaguing the industry with cancellations could make it unfortunately a travel holiday from hell. Aviation correspondent Pete Muntean joining us live from Reagan National Airport. And, Pete, that's why I am going nowhere. But a lot of people behind you are not doing that.

(LAUGHTER)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's so true. This is the biggest test yet for the airlines that are recovering from the pandemic, Brianna, 2.44 million people screened at airports nationwide just yesterday by the TSA. In fact, here at Reagan National Airport, they're anticipating today to be the busiest of the weekend. They're screening 35,000 people here alone.

Cancellations, though, are already going up. Look at the latest numbers from FlightAware, more than 200 flight cancellations nationwide today, more than 400 flight cancellations yesterday.

[08:10:05]

This is nothing compared to last two weekends. Last weekend, 2,200 flight cancellations nationwide according to FlightAware. The weekend before that, the Juneteenth and Father's Day weekend, 3,200 cancellations nationwide. We know that airlines got a lot smaller over the pandemic, and airlines are anticipating bad weather over the weekend. We know when those two things mix, that is when the deck of cards comes tumbling down and the cancellations begin to pile up.

Airlines are under this mandate from Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg to have their acts together this weekend. And I want you to listen now to what he told me when I asked him about airlines putting some of the blame here back on the federal government.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) MUNTEAN: Who is really to blame when it comes to these massive cancellations?

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Let's be very clear. The majority of the delays and the majority of cancellations have not been caused by air traffic control staffing issues. The bottom line here is that the airlines that are selling these tickets need to have the crews and the staff to back up those sales.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

MUNTEAN: Delta pilots did informational picketing at some of the major airlines' hubs yesterday. They are saying that they are overworked. Delta, remember, has been leading the pack in cancellations among major airlines. And there is a new note out from Delta CEO Ed Bastian, it went out to customers yesterday, in which he says if you encounter delays or cancellations recently, I apologize. He says this environment today that we're navigating is unlike anything we have ever faced.

Now, Delta has implemented a new travel waver, systemwide, that allows customers starting today through July 4th to change their flights completely free of charge, no change fees, no change in fares, a bit of win for passengers, Brianna, although an admission from the airline that things could be bad this weekend.

KEILAR: Yes. And, look, just for context, we checked in with you less than an hour ago, 25 more flights canceled since then. Look, we're on sort of on the course here for hundreds and hundreds of flights to be canceled today. A lot of disappointed passengers, Pete Muntean. Thanks for keeping an eye on it for us.

BERMAN: It is not Pete's fault, by the way. Nothing is Pete's fault.

KEILAR: No, nothing is ever Pete's fault.

So how long will Americans be forced to endure these sky high gas prices? We're going to tell you President Biden's answer to that pressing question. You might not like it, quite frankly.

Plus, are the January 6th hearings hurting Trump's chances in 2024? A former Republican senator says yes.

BERMAN: And a CNN exclusive interview with the wife of American basketball star Brittney Griner whose trial is under way at this very moment in Russia, how she feels about the administration's efforts to bring her wife home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHERELL GRINER, WIFE OF DETAINED WNBA STAR BRITTNEY GRINER: I don't think the maximum amount of effort is being done because, again, the rhetoric and the actions don't match.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:38]

BERMAN: Happening now, we continue to follow developments out of Moscow.

WNBA star Brittney Griner is there in a courtroom right now, she's been detained in Russia since February, accused of smuggling drugs in her luggage.

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is live outside the courtroom.

Fred, you've been able to give us updates on what is going on in this ongoing hearing. What is the latest?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, I do have an update for you once again. Brittney Griner has just been led out of the courtroom, apparently this first hearing, this is the first hearing of this trial, it has been adjourned for the day. She was brought out of the courtroom and brought back to wherever she's being held. And now being brought back to the detention facility she's been in.

However, what we have heard from the court here is that this -- the trial has been adjourned until July 7th. That's going to be the next day when a hearing is going to take place. Also, the charge d'affaires of the U.S. embassy here in Moscow, she came out in front of the press a couple of minutes ago and she said she was able to speak to Brittney Griner on the sidelines of the trial, that Brittney Griner was in good spirits, the U.S. is doing everything to try and get her released.

The U.S., of course, John, said she's being wrongfully detained and say they are working in any way they can to try and get her out of custody, not even regarding to this trial, but in general they say that she is wrongfully detained. Of course, she does face up to ten years in prison for allegedly trying to enter this country with narcotics in her hand luggage. We found out more about what that means today. The prosecution says that she had two cartridges on her, one of them with around 0.25 of a gram, of hash oil, and one of 0.5 round about of hash oil in her luggage.

So, they say in total, that means 0.7 of a gram of cannabis was found on her and obviously severe sentence for that could be doled out here in Russia. We'll have to wait and see.

We do have a lot of updates right now, the trial has adjourned for now. She's been brought out of the courtroom and the next trial date is set for July 7th -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Frederik Pleitgen for us in Moscow, Fred, thank you so much for keeping us posted all morning long on this.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And a CNN exclusive interview, Griner's wife is speaking out.

CNN's Abby Phillip did this interview. She is live in Phoenix with more.

Abby, what did she tell you?

ABBY PHILIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brianna and John.

Look, this is a very emotional week for Cherelle Griner and for Brittney Griner's family. They're facing the real reality of what she is facing in Russia, the prospect of a trial in a legal system that Cherelle told me she does not necessarily trust. She does not believe this is any kind of system where her wife can receive justice, and so that's why she is pushing to meet with President Biden and also pushing for President Biden and the United States government to simply get a deal done, that can bring Brittney Griner home. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Tell me about what you have been able to hear from Brittney in this time. There was the call that didn't happen. What have you been able to hear from her while she's been in detention?

CHERELLE GRINER, WIFE OF DETAINED WNBA STAR BRITTNEY GRINER: So, I haven't really been able to hear anything that brings me the most assurance about her well-being to that degree because the call would have given me that. So I don't know how well she's doing.

[08:20:04]

PHILLIP: Do you trust that the maximum amount of effort is being put forward to bring BG home?

GRINER: No, I don't. And I hate to say that, because I do trust that the persons working on this are very genuine people that I do believe. But I don't think the maximum amount of effort is being done because, again, the rhetoric and the actions don't match, you know?

When you have a situation where BG can call our government, the embassy, 11 times, and that phone call don't get answered, you don't have my trust at that point until I see actions that are in BG's best interest. It would have been in her best interest for her phone call to have been answered. It would have been in her best interest to be back on U.S. soil. So, until I see things like that, no.

PHILLIP: I know that you had some conversations with the secretary of state and with other officials, but you want to talk to President Biden, right?

GRINER: The most beneficial thing that I've been told is that, you know, you meet with President Biden, he has that power. He is a person, you know, that ultimately will make that decision for BG to come home. And so while everybody else wants to tell me they care, I would love for him to tell me he cares.

PHILLIP: What do you want to tell him? If you were to sit in front of him, what would you say, speaking directly to him?

GRINER: Well, I would say, the first thing is I want to humanize my wife to him.

PHILLIP: There is talk of prisoner swaps being the thing that needs to happen. Is that what you think should be done? Do you think the administration should say we will swap who you want for Brittney and bring her home?

GRINER: To be very honest with you, I don't really listen to much of the talk about the how, in measures of what is necessary to get her home. But if that's what's necessary, then, yes, do it.

PHILLIP: What do you want the world to know that your wife is facing in this so-called trial that she's about to face?

GRINER: Well, that's a really good question, I want people to try and put themselves in her shoes, you know, and just think about the fact that, you know, this is not our typical system. So BG is not walking into a situation where there is a balance of justice. She's walking into a situation where their judicial system has a 99 percent conviction rate.

So in this system, there is no innocent. In their system, it is guilty.

PHILLIP: Have you seen any of the pictures that have been released this week of her?

GRINER: I have. I have.

PHILLIP: What did you think?

GRINER: It was very disheartening. You know, honestly, I told you I like to, you know, be very frank with my wife, you know, and authentic when I do write her and I told her, I said I saw a picture and honestly for a second I thought you was insane. I said you know it took me aback.

I said I want to tell you one thing, if you are losing your mind, just be gracious with yourself, because you're human and that's okay. And that way you come back, you know, we will love you back whole.

And I said if you aren't going insane, you know, just do me a favor and, you know, just try and keep whatever integrity you can control by not allowing them to depict you in ways that are not really your current state, I said. Got to put a hoodie on, cover your head, do it, don't allow them to try and strip you completely to that degree, because at the end of the day, they're controlling the media over there, so I try not to take it as just truth, but it did make me worry.

PHILLIP: Has she had a chance to respond?

GRINER: She did.

PHILLIP: OK, what did she say?

GRINER: Well, she laughed. She did. She said, babe, I promise, I'm not a lunatic yet. She said, I haven't completely gone crazy, she said, but I was very shocked because when I turned that corner, it was over 100 news outlets with cameras waiting right there, and she told me that she was also very exhausted because, again, this is not a normal process.

So BG is having to travel over five hours round trip when she goes to court, in a very, very, very tiny cage, with her knees bent, feet up to the ground, because it is not big enough for her to fit in.

She's experiencing a lot the days before she walks into court and so she was just, like, it was a lot. I was in a terrible mood, my body was hurting. And just I was shocked when I turned that corner.

PHILLIP: Yeah.

[08:25:01]

When she first disappeared back in February, when did you first know that something was wrong?

GRINER: It was the minute I woke up. You know, it was just too many messages and the minute I clicked on it, you know, she's, like, babe, wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up.

I'm, like, what is going on. They have me in this room, I don't know what's going on. Who are they, what room?

PHILLIP: Your lawyer hat went on.

GRINER: My lawyer hat went on. They, who are they? That is my first question to her. Who are they and what room, you know?

And once I got the answers to those questions that they were TSA agents, I think that's what you call them.

So, you know, I called her agent and I'm, like, I need you to get somebody there now, like, wherever my wife is at, you need to get somebody there now.

PHILLIP: Do you think she's being used as a political pawn by Russia?

GRINER: Honestly, all of this stuff is so new to me, I didn't even understand what a political pawn was for a minute and, you know, somebody --

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: She's an American, she's a black woman, she's a lesbian woman, all of those things. I mean, when you realize kind of the context around that, what did you -- what did you think?

GRINER: It was a big pill to swallow. I just didn't understand it. It felt like a movie for me. I didn't understand these terms and these words. And in my mind, BG is my best friend, you know?

So, I know she's a big deal, but did I ever think she could be big enough to where somebody would want to use her to get something else? No, you know? So it was really hard for me to grasp that, you know?

But then I realized, like, the answer to that question is yes, you know? Like, yes. Can they get something in return for BG? Yes, they can. Are they willing to do that? Yes. At this point, I want them to. Whatever you want, please ask.

PHILLIP: There are a lot of families going through what you are going through. Paul Whelan is still in Russia. Trevor Reed just returned.

What has your connection been like with those other families of wrongfully detained Americans?

GRINER: They were so loving. I just met, you know, some very genuine broken people. And they were, you know, arms wide open for me for support and any type of way throughout the process.

And the first thing they said was, you know, do not be quiet about this. Do not let them forget about your loved one. They will forget about your loved one.

We are three years in, we are four years in, and my heart was breaking hearing it because, I pray to God, you know, three years does not pass by and BG is still wrongfully detained in Russia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Abby --

PHILLIP: Brianna and John --

KEILAR: Sorry, Abby, go on.

PHILLIP: Yeah, a really emotional interview. It was a really emotional moment for Brittney there, because those connections with those families have really been a lifeline to her, and she said to me one of the things they all told her was the same thing, a prerequisite for real progress in her wife's case will be to get that meeting with President Biden, at least that is what they believe.

KEILAR: I thought that was really interesting what you asked her at the end, Abby, about those other families and the support they have given her. They have out of respect been pretty mum about Brittney Griner's situation.

I had spoken with one who basically said we all go through this, where we're sort of silent at the beginning but then we realize we're not going to get what we need until we make noise. And it seems, you can tell us, it seems like Cherelle has gotten to that point.

PHILLIP: Absolutely. And she actually told me that that has been the unanimous advice from some of the other families is you have to speak up. If you don't keep your family member on the agenda, they won't be on the agenda for the people who have the power to make things happen one way or another. She's really taken that to heart.

And I can't emphasize enough this moment that she is in, today, actually is her 30th birthday. She is in the middle of studying for the bar exam, which she told me Brittney insisted she continue studying for, she is in an emotional kind of hurricane of sorts, and the amount of, I think, effort it takes to come out every day, and push for justice on behalf of your wife in a situation where you have almost no control is really quite a lot. All of these families know what that feels like.

And I actually met Brittney for first time a few months ago when she was with those other families of wrongfully detained Americans. And she talked to me a little bit about that, saying how important it was for her to feel brought into that community so early on in her process.

KEILAR: Yeah, they reach out to people like Cherelle immediately because they don't want them reinventing the wheel and it is amazing to see.

Abby Phillip, such a great interview. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.