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Cheney Defends Criticism; Bident Talks Gas Prices; Mark Appel is Interviewed about His MLB Moment. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 01, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Want them reinventing the wheel. And it's amazing to see.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.

KEILAR: Abby Phillip, such a great interview. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

Congresswoman Liz Cheney squaring off against Republican rivals in Wyoming. Will the voters, though, stand with her?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And he likes to lie. That's what January 6th committee member Adam Kinzinger suggested about a former Trump official who spoke to the committee twice. New details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): We are, in fact, a nation of laws. And we are a nation of laws only if we defend our constitutional Republic. And as I made clear last night, we have to put our oath to the Constitution above party. We are now embracing a cult of personality and I won't be part of that, and I will always stand for my oath and stand for the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: January 6th committee vice chair Liz Cheney facing off against her Republican primary challengers in Wyoming, and going on the attack against rivals who say that -- who says she -- who she says are beholden to former President Trump.

[08:35:04]

Joining us now, Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns. They're both CNN political analysts and national political correspondents for "The New York Times." And they are the author of -- the co-authors of the book "This Shall Not Pass," a title I have seared into my mind here.

Gentlemen -- Jonathan, let me start with you. When you hear Liz Cheney there, in this debate, not backing away from,

but running on, to an extent, the January 6th committee, what are you hearing?

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, no (ph).

Well, we capture this in the aforementioned book. Her break from the Republican Party in the months after January 6th that she has not gone back from. Look, a lot of Republicans after the 6th were where Cheney was. They were appalled by President Trump's behavior and they thought it was clearly time to move on and hold him accountable. And the difference is that she has never reversed her stance, and that a lot of her colleagues have simply gone quiet or have fully reembraced President Trump. And I think from that clip, you can see that she is happy, John, to let the chips fall where they may.

She also pointed out that if you want somebody who, you know, as she put it, did forsake the Constitution or wouldn't be willing to, she's not your candidate. So, she's almost telling the voters, look, if you want someone that's going to carry Trump's water, vote for the other person. That is not the kind of rhetoric in a very pro-Trump state, in a Republican primary no less, that you would hear from somebody who's trying to do what it takes to win her renomination.

I think she clearly is open to the fact that she's likely to lose the primary, John, next month. And is, I think, open now to doing whatever it takes to stop President Trump for becoming president again, even if that means, yes, herself running for president to block him.

KEILAR: Because, Alex, when we're watching the hearings, I mean her role in the prosecution, historically speaking, of Donald Trump is so carefully orchestrated. I mean, I think of being 80 and looking back and we're going to be seeing these moments, right?

So, what, though, does that tell you, not just about what it is for history's sake, but for something maybe more near term. I mean what does she have -- what does she have in the works here in the next few years?

ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, Brianna, I think that you're absolutely right that she has broadened her role on that committee from functioning as a vice chair and one of the ring leaders of the hearings that are designed to lay out evidence about this plot, and really prosecuting the case against the Republican Party as it currently exists in a broader way. She doesn't need -- excuse me, she doesn't need to begin the hearings with that -- a searing statement about how Donald Trump won't be here forever, but you, other Republicans complicit in this, your dishonor will remain. She doesn't need to do that. She doesn't need to go to the Reagan Library and say the Republican Party needs to choose between the Constitution and Donald Trump. Those are not part of the literal job description of being on the select committee.

And the way you know that is that almost nobody else on the committee is doing that kind of thing. And not only because most of them are Democrats. She's clearly waging a longer term war for what she sees as the soul of her own political party. And I think consistent with Jonathan was just saying, she's willing to lose short-term fights in the interest of maintaining her long-term credibility.

I do think, and you say you imagine being 80 and looking back on this, she's clearly someone with a real sense of history. A sense that sort of political ties come and go, but what endures in the national memory and in the identity of a political party, if it's worth saving at all, is the people who stand up in moments like this one.

BERMAN: So, we heard from retiring Republican Senator Pat Toomey say that he thinks these hearings are making it harder for Trump to win the Republican nomination for 2024. You guys are both so well sourced. You talk to people all the time.

Alex, first to you, what are you hearing among Republican insiders about what they think, how they're thinking these hearings are affecting Donald Trump's political future?

BURNS: Well, John, it can be a little hard to distinguish people's sort of authentic analysis from wishful thinking because, you know, as we describe in the book, there's this huge gap between what Republican elites will say in public about Donald Trump and what they say about him in private. And, for the most part, they would be delighted if these hearings crippled Donald Trump's presidential aspirations out of the gate. And so you need to read what they're saying now in that context.

But I do think, even within that context, and all of the asterisks attached to that, I think there is a real sense in the Republican Party, certainly at their leadership level of the Republican Party, and among donors in the Republican Party, big donors in the Republican Party, that as long as Donald Trump is determined to spend every day refighting the aftermath of the 2020 election, it does at least create the space for other candidates to get in and talk about the issues of the present and the issues of the future.

[08:40:02]

That when you look at the big issues at stake in the midterm campaign, whether it's gas prices, or abortion rights, or the war in Ukraine, Donald Trump has not said anything particularly interesting or relevant or memorable about any of that. So that clearly creates a space for somebody else. And the question is, who is going to take the risk to step into that space.

BERMAN: Alex Burns, Jonathan Martin, we thank you both for joining us from these undisclosed locations this morning. Their book, "This Will Not Pass" is available now.

So, how long will Americans endure sky high gas prices? The president says as long as it takes to quell the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

KEILAR: Plus, an incredible return to the mound as a former number one MLB draft pick reclaims the spotlight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: How long is it fair to expect American drivers and drivers around the world to pay that premium for this war?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As long as it takes so Russia cannot, in fact, defeat Ukraine and move beyond Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:45:06]

KEILAR: You heard it, as long as it takes. That's how long President Biden says Americans are going to have to endure the high gas prices while Russia is at war with Ukraine. The national average price of gas, skyrocketing as high as a record $5 a gallon this month.

So let's bring in CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans to talk about that.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: But cooled a couple of pennies overnight.

So, we've seen the gas prices stop rising, but, still, it really hurts. And then you look at 8.6 percent inflation, and you look at rent and shelter and airline snafus, and people just feel pretty lousy overall here.

And the president, yesterday, really telling everybody, as long as it takes. You're going to be feeling this as long as it takes. And it's still Russia's fault.

A dollar and a half ago in gas prices he told people, I will not pretend this will be painless, at the very beginning of the war. So they know that the American people are going to feel what's happening in the global economy and in the war on -- in Ukraine. But it doesn't make anybody -- it doesn't - it's cold comfort, really, because people still, every day, have this grinding inflation that they have to deal with.

BERMAN: No, the polls show that Americans are uncomfortable with where the economy is.

ROMANS: And it's so many different things. It's two years of mass death and the disruption to school and the disruption to education, right, and to your life. And then now you're coming out with this amazing consumer demand to try to get sort of back to normal, and the airlines, after being bailed out by taxpayers, can't quite handle it, right? And you've got glitches in the stuff that you want to buy. And a used car costs 30 percent more than it did just last year. So, around every turn there's just a little snag for people to have to get through.

And a friend of mine, an economics editor, calls it the sourpuss economy. So you can't tell people, oh, you know, you actually have more money in your bank account today than you did in 2019. They don't want to hear that, right? They want to hear - they just - there's so many things that have gone wrong. And that's what the president has to contend with. It makes it very difficult to stand up and try to message when people just feel so lousy about so many different things and there are so few levers right now that the - that the White House can pull.

BERMAN: The official White House policy is now turn that frown upside down, right?

ROMANS: No, I don't think -

KEILAR: That's not working.

BERMAN: No, they're not running - they're not running on that.

ROMANS: I don't think that would play. I would not. It's not - you know, the whip inflation now buttons, I don't think they did very well either. So, I - you know, in the '70s. But this is not inflation of the '70s. And that's a reminder - and these -- interest rates are still very, very low, comparably. I mean they've doubled. But, still. So, we'll see. We'll see if we can get this inflation thing under control here.

But for the - for now, I mean, your travel this summer is going to be just a nightmare. But that's not stopping anybody, right? That's not stopping anybody.

KEILAR: It's stopping me.

ROMANS: Is it?

KEILAR: I might be the one person.

Christine Romans, thank you so much.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

BERMAN: All right, he went from the number one draft pick to being called the biggest bust in baseball history. But now he is back on the mound. What an incredible journey. He joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:07]

BERMAN: An incredible story this morning that shows it's just never too late to keep pushing for your dreams.

Pitcher Mark Appel made history as the oldest number one draft pick in baseball ever at just a month shy of 51 to make his debut --

KEILAR: Thirty-one. Thirty-one.

BERMAN: Thirty-one. Sorry. Sorry.

And he made another incredible -- he also pitched a scoreless inning. The man joins us now, Phillies pitcher Mark Appel.

Mark, first of all, congratulations. I'm not sure I explained that very well. You were the number one draft pick in the entire draft in 2013, which is a lot of pressure. A lot of pressure. You didn't make the big leagues. Not right away. It took a long, long time. So long you even left the game for a while and then, this week, you get out there, you pitch a scoreless inning of baseball.

How did it feel?

MARK APPEL, MLB PITCHER, PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES: It was - it was overwhelming. It was a really, really emotional night for me. Just the fact that family got to be in the stands. They've been through the entire journey. And it's been a long one. So, I'm just thankful. I'm overwhelmed with gratitude. You know, and just getting to do it in a city like Philadelphia, with these fans, and there's just a lot that, you know, it means a whole lot to me. I'm just - I'm really thankful.

KEILAR: And, Mark, what I love about your story, and -- is that it's something that even people who aren't baseball fans, I think they need to pay a lot of attention to. I want to draw their attention to something you tweeted out where you said, it's OK to not be OK. In 2014 I experienced depression for the first time in my life. After a stretch of terrible games, I broke down and destroyed a locker room wall. When the dust settled, figurative and literally, even though I wasn't OK, I knew my life would be.

Can you tell us a little bit about that and also just how the lows have made this high that much more significant for you?

APPEL: Yes, absolutely. I mean, a lot of guys have different paths to the big leagues. And I feel like in some ways my story represents the majority of players that make it, that maybe aren't quite in the spotlight that I was because I was the first overall pick.

And so going through some of these lows and going through, you know, depression while I'm playing, and even - because I spent almost four years away from the game because I was injured and just emotionally and spiritually drained, I needed a reset.

And so the fact that, you know, I was able to come back and now I'm playing for the Philadelphia Phillies, it's a reality that I never thought would come true for a really long time, for many stretches of my journey. And so it's really humbling, the fact that I get to be here literally sitting at Citizens Bank Park talking to you guys today.

[08:55:07]

So I'm -- yes, I'm overwhelmed.

I'm just so happy for you after everything you went through and after everything you no doubt heard people saying about you for so long. It's just such a wonderful thing.

I happen to think that people who go through adversity are much more interesting. What's the lesson for you here?

APPEL: For me, the big lesson that I feel like I've learned is that a lot of times in our lives, you know, things don't go according to plan. And I think the way that -- if we can navigate when -- the times when life doesn't go according to plan, you know, we'll be better off for it. I think that's a lot easier said than done.

I know the -- just crazy amount of tears and nights of just hopelessness that I felt in the past, and then still figuring out how to wake up and keep going. You know, I know mental health is a huge issue in our country and in the world. And so, you know, I think if we can find hope for me it's in my relationship with God, and just knowing that, you know, like I said in that tweet, like even though may - like, things aren't OK at times, I know my life is. I know my hope is secure in God. So.

BERMAN: Listen, Mark Appel, just so happy for you. Congratulations. And I look forward to seeing you, if not in a ballpark, somewhere.

APPEL: Thank you, John.

CNN's coverage continues right now.