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Thousands of Flights Delayed, Canceled Over Holiday Travel Weekend; Cheney Doesn't Rule Out Criminal Referral Against Trump; Trump Weighs Potential Early 2024 Campaign Launch. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 04, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:13]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to viewers here in the U.S. and all around the world. It is Monday July 4, and the Independence Day celebrations kicking off early in some cities. This is video from Milwaukee's waterfront where 1000s gathered to catch a spectacular firework show, just beautiful there. The mood was not so festive in America's airports, though, flights canceled, passengers stranded. If you are flying this holiday weekend, chances are you are not having a happy fourth and you were feeling anything but independent because you were at the mercy of overwhelmed airlines.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah, more than 1500 flights were canceled across the country from Friday through Sunday and Saturday was the worst 653 flights were axed. The airlines are also blaming the weather, thunderstorms in the Northeast delaying 1000s of flights and adding to the chaos, the highest travel demand we've seen since the start of the pandemic and, of course, rampant staffing shortages.

Let's take you now to one of the busiest airports in the world. Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International and CNN's Nadia Romero who's been there throughout the weekend at different times, playing grief counselor to passengers that have had their flight plans scrambled. Good morning, Nadia.

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Boris. Yeah, trying to tell them all the great attractions here in the city of Atlanta since they had to spend the night here and letting them know, hey, there's a martyr you can just take that ride into town. It's pretty cheap. Yeah, that was part of my job this weekend talking to travelers who unfortunately had their flights delayed or canceled.

And so, so many people are trying to get back to that sense of normalcy that Brianna was talking about. Now that we are getting through this pandemic, and people feel safer to travel. Take a look behind me. This is the main security checkpoint here at the airport. And it's pretty clear this morning, this is the lightest day for travel that I've seen all throughout the holiday weekend, as people are making their way through this general boarding area. This is still where you have to come, take off your shoes, take out your laptop, so it's still a process. But all of these rows were full on Friday and Saturday, not so much today. Let's take a look at the numbers from the TSA, letting us know just how many travelers had made their way through this weekend. Thursday, about 2.4 million passengers. Friday, though, was the highest point the most travelers we've seen go through TSA security checkpoint since before the pandemic 2.5 million Americans since before February 2020 was the last time we saw numbers that high, then it dropped off again on Saturday to about 2.2 million people were expecting to get an update from the TSA at 9 a.m. Eastern. We would expect those numbers to come down on Sunday again. And then of course today, who wants to travel on a holiday but if you are traveling on a holiday, you're not seeing those long lines that we saw earlier in the week. But take a look at the cost to travel just compared to last year, airfare is up 14% compared to last year. Hotel is up 23% more expensive. And then there's gas prices. Yes, 52% more expensive this year to fill up your gas tank than it would have been last July 4 weekend. Even though prices have been coming down over the past couple of days. If you just look at your old receipts from back last year, you'll see that dramatic increase.

Boris, we saw some people as we were coming in getting set up who have been sleeping on the third floor and in different areas, that's what it's been like for so many people. Because even though we have only about 100 flights canceled today, there are still some 300 more delays. And that delay is just a domino effect. If your flights delayed on Saturday, then you see that impact on Sunday and then that impact on Monday because all of these flights and airlines are connected. And unfortunately here in Atlanta for a lot of people once they make their way on the other side of TSA security checkpoint here, they may make it to their first leg of the trip and then get delayed somewhere else. And that's what we've heard from a lot of travelers. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Nadia, you know the sights and sounds of Atlanta, well, the CNN Center, the Waffle House, there's a Ferris wheel downtown plenty of good advice, you're giving them.

KEILAR: The Flying Biscuit.

SANCHEZ: That's right.

KEILAR: Send them to The Flying Biscuit.

SANCHEZ: That's right. Nadia Romero, thank you so much.

KEILAR: So as flight cancellations and these delays are creating chaos at airports, bad weather could intensify travel woes this holiday weekend. So let's check in with Chad Myers to see what we are in store for, what do you see?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Brianna, I think Minneapolis, I think Chicago get affected today for sure. Some thunderstorms across parts of the southeast, but nothing like we're going to see the organized area of weather here that we'll see through the Dakotas, back into Nebraska and then rolling all the way through Wisconsin and into Chicago late tonight. Very careful, you got to be very, very careful today on the lakes in parts of Minnesota and Wisconsin because this is a big bad weather system that we'll be bringing in winds about 55 or 60 miles per hour. You don't want to be out there on your boat when this thing starts rolling on by, and even by six o'clock tonight it'll be very close to Chicago.

[06:05:01]

Now, by later on it goes on by and things get a lot better. Another round of showers tomorrow with thunderstorms in the same particular area but it's hot. I mean, it's the fourth of July, what's hotter than fourth of July, the fifth of July. And that's what's going to be happening for the rest of this week. We're not going to be cooling down much the entire country at or above normal and your temperatures cooling down some for tonight. Most of the showers and storms that are scattered across the eastern part of the U.S. will go away after dark or at least close to dark hopefully began out of the way for the fireworks.

KEILAR: Yeah, we want to see those beautiful things.

MYERS: Right.

KEILAR: All right, Chad, thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

KEILAR: So the January 6 committee could make multiple criminal referrals to the Justice Department, including against former President Trump. This is according to the committee's Vice Chair, Republican congresswoman Liz Cheney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So did the committee will or will not make a criminal referral?

REP. LIZ CHENEY, (R) WYOMING GOP CONFERENCE CHAIR: We'll make a decision as a committee about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it's possible there will be a criminal referral?

CHENEY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which would be effectively the committee saying that he should be prosecuted. And this is evidence that we've --

CHENEY: The Justice Department doesn't have to wait for the committee to make a criminal referral. And there could be more than one criminal referral.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Joining us now to talk about this and other things, CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Elie Honig and CNN Political Commentator and Columnist for New York Magazine, Errol Louis.

Elie, what did you find significant about what Liz Cheney is saying there?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so first of all, when we talk about criminal referrals, I think it's important people understand legally they have zero significance. OK, the Justice Department does not need a criminal referral in order to do anything. And a criminal referral from Congress does not compel DOJ to do anything.

What I think is really most important here is the evidence. The evidence is the thing. And I think the criminal referral is the testimony we saw last week from Cassidy Hutchinson, the testimony we've seen from Brad Raffensperger and all the other witnesses, the Mark Meadows texts, all this evidence that the committee has really done a quite remarkable job of pulling together and presenting. And I think that's what's going to have persuasive force. And one thing that's really changed, I think, the pressure on DOJ, the pressure caused by the force of the evidence has really increased over the last month or so, in light of these hearings.

SANCHEZ: Well, it's interesting, because members of the committee have said that political backlash, the optics of pressing charges against a former president has weighed in on their calculations here. Errol, I'm wondering for you, if ultimately, DOJ doesn't press charges against the former president, there could be backlash against Democrats?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes, that political question is an important one. But you got to keep in mind, you know, Boris, if you think back to Watergate, Richard Nixon was never criminally charged, but dozens and dozens of people were and dozens and dozens of people, in fact, were convicted. Right now, you know, the FBI investigation of January 6, is it the largest in the agency's history, hundreds and hundreds of people who had been arrested are being indicted, that process is moving forward. I don't think as we go further up the chain, we should poopoo the idea that anybody short of the President is not worth going after, lots and lots of people have a lot of exposure, legally speaking at the Department of Justice, I think is really moving with great urgency, because 10s of millions of Americans have seen exactly how bad this went and are starting to get a sense of how high it really might have reached.

KEILAR: It's interesting that we're hearing from Adam Kinzinger on the committee, that other witnesses are coming forward after that testimony of Cassidy Hutchinson, she had actually come forward when she felt that she had more to share than she had shared with the committee. It appears other people may be doing that as well. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Congressman said since Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, have new witnesses come forward to want to speak up? REP. ADAM KINZINGER, (R) ILLINOIS JAN. 6TH COMMITTEE MEMBER: Yes. Again, I don't want to get into who or any of those details, but and it's not even just Cassidy, by the way she's been inspiring for a lot of people. It's -- this happens every day, every day, we get new people that come forward and say, hey, I didn't think maybe this piece of the story that I knew was important. But now that you guys are -- like, I do see this plays in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Is that surprising to you, Elie?

HONIG: No, I think that's the way things normally play. I mean, look, there's more than one Cassidy Hutchinson who worked in the White House, there has to be, right? There's dozens and dozens of staffers, maybe not all of whom had the kind of access that she had, but there has to be other people who saw what was happening. And who may be seeing Cassidy Hutchinson inspired that because I think it's quite clear that what she did was the right thing to do and took some courage.

I do want to disagree with my friend Errol, on one thing he said. I disagree that DOJ has been acting with great urgency. Yes, they have charged over 800 people, that's important. That is almost entirely literally at ground level of those 800 people, one of them, one of 800 people was not physically present at the Capitol scene that's Enrique Tarrio who's the leader of the Proud Boys, who was essentially caught on wiretaps planning the attack.

[06:10:07]

There has been no progress by DOJ into the upper echelons of power. Yes, Errol is absolutely right, there are people other than Donald Trump who are important here. We know there's been search warrants on the lawyers, John Eastman, Jeffrey Clark, but DOJ, in my view has been slow, very, very slow. And I think to their own detriment.

SANCHEZ: I think that the committee is also looking to perhaps have hearings where they explore the role that extremist groups had, that was part of the reporting that we had. We still haven't seen that hearing. Errol, I'm wondering what else you think the committee needs to put forward in the way of evidence or witnesses that might spur DOJ to pursue prosecution?

LOUIS: Well, look, I think they are under a lot of pressure. I mean, for sure, you know, and the committee's decision to make all of this sort of expositional and narrative rather than confrontational and bureaucratic is an important decision, because it's painting a picture that the DOJ and the rest of the country are all saying, oh, this seems to be what the story is, maybe we need to get with it. And so I think we are going to see them, you know, take the actions that this evolving narrative would lead you to conclude that they have to take the charge of seditious conspiracy, the fact that they're going after the leadership of major extremist organizations, I think, is profoundly important. And the flow of these new witnesses and others who have more to add, I think, is only going to sort of increase the speed with which all of this kind of evolves.

But look, in the end, especially when you get closer and closer to the Oval Office, I think really what this is going to be about more is going to be more political impact than about whether or not any particular person ends up in handcuffs or in a jail cell. I mean, you know, the reality is, we have a midterm election coming up very quickly. And it's going to be followed by the 2024 elections, the sequel to all of this stuff, to the extent that we want to protect our elections, from the kind of sort of criminal interference that you saw on January 6, that's not going to just be a matter of whether or not, you know, so and so gets indicted, it's going to be up to all of us to figure out what this means and what we're going to do to protect our next round of elections.

KEILAR: How important is it, Elie, that there is this deterrent effect, right, that like Liz Cheney was talking about, you have to send a signal to future presidents that you can't knowingly send an armed mob up to the Capitol. And if you get to do that, and really nothing happens to you, what is the message?

HONIG: Yeah, well, look, I totally agree with Errol, that there are values here. And there's an importance to this beyond just whoever gets locked up. But ultimately, if all that comes out of this is a scathing written report from the committee and some hearings that we all saw that we found devastating, but no actual consequences. I think then the message tends to fall a little bit flat. And Errol is also correct to know that there is an interplay here between the politics and the political calendar, and prosecutorial, you know, prosecutorial implications, because we're coming up on midterms, and DOJ has this policy that they won't charge anybody in a politically charged case within 60 or 90 days of the midterms. We're almost there.

So now what are we realistically looking at, charges against powerful political players in early 2023 after perhaps some of them, maybe one Donald J. Trump has announced their candidacy for 2024? DOJ, by its own delay is complicating its own tasks enormously here.

KEILAR: Elie and Errol, thank you so much for spending this holiday with us. We appreciate it.

Donald Trump weighing in early launch of his 2024 campaign for president, when is this likely to happen probably sooner than you would expect. We have some new CNN reporting ahead.

Plus , Governor versus Governor. California's Gavin Newsom taking on Florida's Ron DeSantis in the first 2024 election ad.

SANCHEZ: Plus, a significant setback for Ukraine. Russian forces claiming a big prize in the east but Ukrainian forces are vowing to fight back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:18:11]

SANCHEZ: There's new CNN reporting this morning that former President Trump is anxiously considering exactly when he should announce a presidential run for 2024. The decision becoming more pressing after damning revelations from the January 6 committee.

With us now with our new reporting is CNN Reporter Gabby Orr. And also with us is CNN Senior Reporter, Edward Dovere.

Thank you both for joining us this morning. Gabby, what are the factors that are instigating this potentially unprecedented earlier than expected announcement from Donald Trump?

GABBY ORR, CNN REPORTER: Well, Boris, there's really three factors that go into this sort of accelerated timeline for the former president. The first is what we've seen out of the January 6 committee. You know, there's been bombshell revelations that have actually been a lot more damaging to the former president in terms of what his aides have been telling me than some of them expected.

And so Trump is eager to change the narrative to try and do something that will shift the attention back to him in a way that he feels is favorable. And he thinks he can do that with a presidential campaign announcement, which typically accompanies, you know, a lot of earned media, some more airtime for him, gives him an opportunity to get that -- get out there and be his own messenger as we know he likes to be.

The second reason is that he wants to clear the Republican field. He wants to put his potential rivals on notice. And there's really nobody that that applies to more than Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who has emerged as a potential threat in a Republican primary if he also decides to run for president. So Trump thinks that the earlier he gets out there, the easier it becomes to sort of freeze the field.

And lastly, just the climate right now, he thinks is sort of an opportune moment for him to announce a third presidential bid. President Joe Biden's approval ratings have hit new lows, most Americans don't feel as though the country is heading in the right direction.

[06:20:03]

And so although many Americans probably have serious concerns about Trump's behavior while in office and what we've heard from some of these public hearings in Congress, he thinks that concerns about the economy will triumph over those personality concerns.

KEILAR: Gabby, why does the timeline keep moving here?

ORR: Yeah, I mean, Brianna, this is typical Trump. I mean, he's all over the place when it comes to making decisions. And I want to just read what one aide told me because I do think it really puts into perspective, just how often his mind changes on announcing. Here's what one source told us, "Every day is different. We get told he's going to announce imminently, and by the afternoon that has changed." And that bears out just in my own reporting. I've talked to sources one day who said, you know, he's not going to announce until after Labor Day or print before that it was even after the midterms, when he felt he would have the most momentum. But now it has been pushed up to potentially this month. I'm hearing and really those around him have joked that they could just find out on truth social, his own social media platform that he's suddenly announced for president.

SANCHEZ: Unpredictable, if anything, is one way to describe former President Trump.

Isaac, I want to focus on what's being described by Gavin Newsom, the California governor as the first 2024 political ad. Here's a clip of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, (D) CALIFORNIA: It's independent states. So let's talk about what's going on in America. Freedom, it's under attack in your state. Republican leaders, they're banning books, making it harder to vote, restricting speech in classrooms, even criminalizing women and doctors. I urge all of you live in Florida to join the fight or join us in California.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Notably, Newsom is targeting who Gabby just described as potentially Donald Trump's biggest rival going into 2024 on the Republican side, Ron DeSantis. What's Newsom's goal here?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, I spoke with Newsom last week about this ad. And he said to me, look, I'm not running for president, but Ron DeSantis, is, what Newsom says he's doing is trying to rev up the Democratic voters around the country and the Democrats just in every way to say that they need to be fighting more aggressively against Republicans. He said to me that he's worried that Republicans and the right have defined the terms of the debate and that they're winning, and that Democrats need to come back and take those terms back. Freedom is the word that you see all over that ad there. And that is not a mistake. He wants that to be part of how Democrats are talking about what this is, that it's about a collective consciousness for the country a different approach than what the Republicans are doing. And what Ron DeSantis he said, as the poster child for.

KEILAR: How does he -- I'm just so curious, because Gavin Newsom keeps popping up, Isaac. How does he see himself? What does he see his role as politically right now in the Democratic Party?

DOVERE: He said to me, I'm not running for president. He said a bunch of times to me, it made it very clear. But what he says is that he is watching what's going on. And he's very worried, and he's frustrated. And he feels like he has a spot here that he can fill as a leader who may not be running for president, but is well known, has a big platform, obviously has the ability to put an ad on Fox News today to -- for the express purpose of trolling Ron DeSantis, but also to talk about all these things that are going on in the country and try to fill the energy gap that a lot of Democrats are feeling.

KEILAR: OK, what -- OK, let me just -- what if you were running for president? SANCHEZ: Yeah, if you're Joe Biden --

KEILAR: What if you were running for president, then what would you think --

SANCHEZ: And if you're Joe Biden watching this ad and you're looking like, wait a second, this looks like a presidential candidate.

KEILAR: Right, Isaac?

DOVERE: Look, it certainly -- if you take it in the abstract, right, that someone is running an ad in Florida, who is not from Florida, running in Florida, that does raise some eyebrows. And I can tell you it's raised some eyebrows in the Biden orbit in the White House. But Newsom said to me, that what he's trying to do, he said, the difference between us is the difference between darkness and daylight when he talks about him and DeSantis. He feels like there is this different model that is being put forward here by what's going on in California and what he's doing versus what Ron DeSantis is doing in Florida, and that it's really important to have that opposition sketched out and done in hard terms. He said to me the of engagement need to change because the fight has changed.

SANCHEZ: Gabby, quickly, something you touched on before the concern within Trump world that Ron DeSantis might run. Do we know if they've spoken recently about this?

ORR: Between Trump and DeSantis we don't know the last time that they spoke other than them appearing together at a wedding in Mar-a-Lago earlier this spring and we do know that they exchanged some pleasantries there, but you know, there has been a lot of tension between mean these two camps behind the scenes but also, it's sort of spilling out publicly as well. I mean, Trump has been putting out statement after statement by his Save America leadership PAC just highlighting various polls that show him or claim to show him ahead of DeSantis and a Republican primary.

[06:25:17]

And so I do think that he feels threatened, Boris, by DeSantis. And really DeSantis is the only potential 2024 rival that he has sort of hinted at being scared of in the field.

SANCHEZ: And notably, DeSantis was running for governor has yet to ask for Trump's endorsement in that race. Gabby Orr, Isaac Dovere, we got to leave the conversation there. Thank you both.

DOVERE: Thank you.

ORR: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Coming up, a story that we've been following from overseas, bloodshed at a mall in Copenhagen. What investigators are now saying about the alleged gunman?

KEILAR: And a fourth day of protests following the fatal police shooting of Jayland Walker, who suffered at least 60 gunshot wounds after a police chase. New details ahead.

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