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New Day

Suspect Charged With Seven Counts of Murder, Motive Still Unclear; Giuliani, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) Among Trump Allies Subpoenaed in Georgia Probe; Frustrated Democrats Call Biden White House Rudderless, Aimless, Hopeless. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 06, 2022 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:02]

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But in 1960s, Israeli agents apprehended him, brought him to Israel to face trial where he claimed he didn't know about the extent of the Holocaust and said he was just following orders.

But these tapes, Brianna, tell a much different story. I want us to play a clip where you will hear out of Eichmann's actual voice but these are actors reenacting these recording sessions. Take a listen.

Brianna, these tapes were in private hands for years before landing at a German government archive who only in 2020 gave these Israeli filmmakers access. Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Heinous. Hadas, thank you so much for sharing that with us.

And New Day continues right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Wednesday, July 6th. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

Important new questions being raised this morning about the man accused of murdering seven people at the July 4th parade in Highland Park, Illinois. Why was he allowed to purchase guns, the weapons he used or is suspected of using despite specific interactions with police? Some new information this morning.

Investigators say the suspect may have planned the attack for several weeks and that he dressed in women's clothing during the shooting to conceal his identity and facial tattoos. He had had two incidents with law enforcement in 2019, first when authorities were notified about a suicide attempt, and later after a family member reported he had threatened to, quote, kill everyone. Police removed 16 knives, a dagger and a sword from his house.

Shortly after that, though, he legally purchased five firearms. He was under 21 at the time so he was sponsored by his father.

KEILAR: Prosecutors have filed seven counts of first-degree murder against the suspect and they promised more charges to come. Two of the fatalities, a couple whose toddler was found alive once the shooting stopped.

BERMAN: Joining us now is former FBI Agent and Author of Compromised Peter Strzok. Peter, thanks so much for being with us.

Two run-ins with police before purchasing guns, including one where he was called because he said he wanted to kill everybody. How is that not a red flag, literally a red flag with these red flag laws when you then go to buy a weapon?

PETER STRZOK, FORMER FBI AGENT: Well, John, it absolutely should be. I mean, there were two incidents that she spoke of, first in April and then of September 2019, where he first attempted to kill himself and later threatened to kill other people, in which that second event was when all those knives and sword and dagger were seized.

The issue was twofold, as I understand it, one, when the police were called to the residence at both times, the first time, the family said they were consulting with mental health professionals and the second time when he was threatening to kill others, nobody was willing to provide a complaint, nobody was willing to provide the information to police that they would have needed to charge him and they didn't have probable cause to arrest him.

So, there was, at that point, no arrest that would have created a record, no charge that would have created a criminal history. The local police did do the right thing. They sent that information about the visit up to the state authorities. And it appears that one -- although Illinois has a very strong, comparatively across the nation, red flag law, that this information was -- because he had not in September 2019 applied for a firearms owner identification card, what's called a FOID card, that nobody noted that there was an issue there because he hadn't applied for it.

And so then later in December when his father co-sponsors him, it isn't clear what happened to that report. Was it lost, was it ignored, are the procedures not in place to view it? But you see a series of events that should have caused a red flag that in this case didn't.

BERMAN: So, part of it could be a sequencing thing at the time of the incidents. He wasn't in possession of a firearm, that might have made it more glaring when he then went to buy more firearms.

Part of this is legal, right? Part of this is a legal question about whether or not the laws are in place to prevent this. But then there is the issue of the father who had to vouch for his son in the purchase of a weapon.

[07:05:04]

What does that tell you?

STRZOK: Well, that's right, John. I mean, there is some question, I think, of whether or not there is an ongoing investigation of what the father did or didn't know. What I've seen and what has been in public reporting is that it was indicated that the gunman was living with his mother and that the father didn't know about it. I suspect the authorities right now are looking to determine whether or not, in fact, that was the case, what the father did or didn't know.

We should know that highlights a really important thing. These red flag laws are designed for normal people behaving responsibly. And, unfortunately, a lot of times, you know, you find people who have mental health issues are not coming out of normal circumstances, are not coming out of normal families. That's not to say that that happens all the time, but in some cases, if we have an expectation that a red flag law alone is going to catch each and every incident, it's not going to do that. And a lot of this discussion about the red flag laws is concealing a little bit the underlying problem, which is absolutely the easy access to assault weapons.

BERMAN: How much subjectivity is there in the process of these background checks? I mean, you have state laws that are interwoven with federal databases. But how much subjectivity among some individuals along the way does factor in?

STRZOK: Well, it absolutely varies. I mean, on the one end, you have, if somebody is arrested and convicted of a crime, that's going to leave a record in a database that is going to be, hopefully, if the system is working, seeable, reviewable and something that would cause a flag for a firearms purchase.

On the other end of the spectrum, you're absolutely relying on the subjective judgment of a whole number of people. Folks who are observing the behavior of the person who is at risk or reporting it, whether they think that is sufficient to call the authorities and make a note of it, if their family, perhaps they don't want to do that because they're ashamed of it, because they're minimizing the issue or any number of other reasons.

So, you have got this broad spectrum of things on the one hand that might very well and should cause a block, but on the other side, there are absolutely cases where there are warning signs but for a variety of reasons people might not choose to come forward to the authorities. And, in fact, as we're seeing right now, even when those notes are made that sometimes the system doesn't record those or keep them in a database where they're searchable in the future.

BERMAN: Peter Strzok, I appreciate you being with us, helping us understand this, this morning.

STRZOK: Thanks, John.

KEILAR: The mayor of Uvalde, Texas, is worried about a police cover- up in the investigation of what happened the day of the Robb Elementary School massacre. 19 children, of course, and 2 teachers died in that.

Mayor Don McLaughlin spoke exclusively with CNN's Shimon Prokupecz about this and Shimon is joining us live. Shimon, what did he tell you? SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And, Brianna, his issue is specifically with the Texas Department of Public Safety, which is running this investigation, his issues over how they're going about releasing the limited information that they have, and certainly just the overall investigation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAYOR DON MCLAUGHLIN, UVALDE, TEXAS: I think it's a cover up on --

PROKUPECZ: On -- they're covering up?

MCLAUGHLIN: McCraw is covering up for

PROKUPECZ: For who?

MCLAUGHLIN: For maybe his agencies or maybe he told the story he told, that, you know, it's hard, you know -- what do they say, it's always hard when you tell a lie, that you have to keep telling a lie. I'm not saying he's lying, maybe he was misled with the information he got.

PROKUPECZ: But he hasn't changed his story, right, since that Friday.

MCLAUGHLIN: No.

PROKUPECZ: And then he did the Senate hearing.

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, which was --

PROKUPECZ: Which is even more -- he was even more emphatic about Chief Arredondo being the man who was responsible for everything here, blaming everything on him.

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, again, you know, every agency in that hallway is going to have to share the blame. And, like I said, again, I will go back to when have you ever seen a federal or state law enforcement officer take their cues from local law enforcement.

PROKUPECZ: DPS is a big agency in this state.

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: The governor -- I mean, they report directly to the governor.

MCLAUGHLIN: Sure.

PROKUPECZ: Do you think McCraw should step aside, should step down, should resign?

MCLAUGHLIN: You know, I think that he's going to have to be held accountable when this is all said and done too. We all are. I mean, like I said -- I mean, your story can't change from something this horrific three times -- four times in three days, and that's what he's done. Let's be candid. I mean, when I got to that scene, there were 30 to 40 DPS officers already on scene. In the various videos you see from outside, you see DPS officers running around with flak jackets on and ballistic helmets on and different things. That's video that's been shown from the outside. But yet we want to talk about no presence of DPS in the hallway.

I know at one time there were 14 of them in the hallway. Now, if they stayed there or now, I can't tell you because I haven't seen the video. But, I mean, like I said, if this is a failure, it's a failure on everybody's part.

PROKUPECZ: Well, it is a failure. You can't say if this is a failure.

[07:10:00]

MCLAUGHLIN: Well --

PROKUPECZ: You have to say it is a failure.

MCLAUGHLIN: It is a failure. But, I mean, that failure -- every agency there has to own part of that.

PROKUPECZ: Your issue is that everything is being pointed towards one place.

MCLAUGHLIN: Sure.

PROKUPECZ: In some way.

MCLAUGHLIN: And if we point everything over here, then the truth is not going to come out. And these families and this community, they deserve to know what happened.

PROKUPECZ: Are you concerned that the truth is not going to come out?

MCLAUGHLIN: I think we will get to the truth. I think they've put themselves -- backed themselves in a corner and they don't have a way out yet. They're just trying to figure out how do you -- because they've released so much B.S., in my opinion, that they've put themselves in a corner. So, how do you come out of the corner?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PROKUPECZ: And, Brianna, what's happening here is that the mayor says he feels that no information is being released about what the state troopers, the Texas Department of Public Safety, what those officers were doing in the hallway. You hear him there say that there were 14 officers at one point from the DPS in that hallway. And why are we not hearing anything about what they were not doing in the hallway and everything is being pointed to one agency and that's really the Uvalde Police and also obviously the school police.

The Texas DPS released a statement saying they really can't talk about this investigation because they have been ordered by the local district attorney not to release anything. They say that once their investigation is complete, they hope that they will be able to release more information. But, again, we're 43 days after the shooting and yet still there are arguments and fights and concerns over the fact that we don't still have the complete story.

And think about this, the kids here in Uvalde there are returning to school in the middle of August in about 59 days or so. Safety is going to be a big issue and that has been raised by many officials, the fact that some of the schools don't have the proper safety protocols. We know nothing about what's going on. And so hopefully within the next few weeks, we will start to get more information.

KEILAR: That is a community that deserves answers, Shimon, and you keep seeking them as well. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you for that report.

BERMAN: So, major new developments in the investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. An Atlanta area special grand jury has issued subpoenas to a handful of key allies to former President Donald Trump, including Rudy Giuliani, Senator Lindsey Graham, as well as campaign legal advisers, including John Eastman and Jenna Ellis.

With us now, CNN Political Analyst and Senior Political Correspondent for The New York Times Maggie Haberman.

You look at the roster of people being issued these subpoenas, and this is sort of everyone inside Trump world or a lot of the people inside Trump world involved with their election efforts at that time except Donald Trump. So, what does that tell you?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: A couple of things, John. One, remember this is a fact-finding grand jury. This is not a grand jury that is going to bring charges. If they're going to bring charges, that's going to be another grand jury. But that gives them a broad scope to interview basically everyone around Donald Trump who we know does have some potential legal exposure in this investigation.

You know, it would be an unusual escalation if they subpoenaed a former president, I don't think that's a huge surprise. But we certainly do know that he is someone they are looking at in this inquiry. And as you say, the more pieces of this they bring together to try to find information from, the closer it gets to Trump.

KEILAR: And they want to talk to a sitting senator, Lindsey Graham, in part because of what he said about widespread voter fraud, which was debunked, but also because of calls he made inquiring about absentee ballots. How significant this?

HABERMAN: It's pretty unusual to hear of a sitting senator getting subpoenaed. This is obviously an unusual case on a number of levels, right? So, you have to assume there's going to be a fair amount of unusual things that come from it. But that they are subpoenaing a sitting senator is pretty remarkable, it does speak to the remarkable nature of all of this.

Again, where it leads, we don't know, but the number of people, the sheer volume of these subpoenas yesterday was striking.

BERMAN: How much does Donald Trump care or how worried is he about Georgia as opposed to Department of Justice?

HABERMAN: So, the line out of people close to him for a while has been, no, no, no, he's much more worried about Georgia than he is about the Department of Justice. Now, again, I don't know whether DOJ eventually may take over this investigation. There is some speculation that could happen. He certainly is concerned about Georgia. I think it is hard to believe that he is not concerned about the Justice Department investigation, but I think Georgia is just more concrete, something he can point to.

And, remember, John, there is a tape of him in Georgia on a phone call with Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. That's a big piece of why it's a concern to him.

KEILAR: We have all heard that. They want to hear from people who were on that call.

Sarah Matthews, who is former deputy press secretary, spoke to the January 6th committee.

[07:15:00]

We've seen a little of her testimony, but she's now, agreed according to two sources, to testify at an upcoming hearing. What questions is the committee going to have for her, do you think?

HABERMAN: I think it's going to be, number one, state of mind about what was happening, what she observed with former President Trump. I do think the committee is using her to bolster Cassidy Hutchinson, the other former aide who we saw testify and who has come under pretty intense attacks from people around former President Trump, questioning specific pieces of her testimony and trying to raise questions about her credibility. So, I think that's a big piece of the goal here.

BERMAN: Who is Sarah Matthews?

HABERMAN: She's a former deputy press secretary. I mean, she was not a senior aide. However, the junior aides -- in all of Washington, and you know this and you know this, see a lot, right? So, I mean, she was in a bunch of rooms. She was aware of a number of things that were going on, exactly what the committee is hoping to get from her. I think we have to see. But I do think that a big piece of this is this is supposed to bolster what they got from Cassidy Hutchinson.

KEILAR: Yes. And she and others knew that it was a very bad idea when Trump sent that text about Mike Pence. They knew the right thing to do for the president at that point, was to tamp things down, and he did the exact opposite.

I want to ask you, and we don't often do this, but about something that Joe Rogan said on his very popular podcast where he was talking about Joe Biden, but also Donald Trump. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going to run again. Do you think he's going to win?

JOE ROGAN, PODCAST HOST: Well, he's running against a dead man. Biden shakes hands with people that aren't even there when he gets off stage. I think he's seeing ghosts.

By the way, I'm not a Trump supporter in any way, shape or form. I have had the opportunity to have him on my show more than once, I've said no every time. I don't want to help him. I'm not interested in helping him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Does that signify anything to you that he's saying, I don't want to help Donald Trump, that Joe Rogan is saying that?

HABERMAN: It signifies it for now. I mean, it signifies that we are in a moment where there are all kinds of intense revelations that are coming out of the January 6th committee that Donald Trump is under investigation in multiple investigations, and I think he doesn't want to be used basically. And this is something that I think you have seen a lot of people across various spans of media deal with over the course of a very long period of time with Donald Trump.

Does that hold if Donald Trump is the nominee? I think that's the question and I think a lot of this doesn't hold.

BERMAN: What about the first thing Joe Rogan said there that Donald Trump is running? And --

HABERMAN: I don't know that he has any special insight beyond what we can all see, right? But I do think that it is -- I don't know that anybody told him he's running and therefore it should happen. But everything Donald Trump is doing so far indicates somebody who is probably running. Let's wait and see if he pulls the trigger.

BERMAN: Maggie, great to see you. Thank you very much.

So, rudderless, aimless and hopeless, that is what one Democratic member of Congress said about the performance inside the White House. We have new CNN reporting.

And we have live pictures now of the British parliament where the prime minister, Boris Johnson, will face tough questions after several cabinet members up and quit. So, how much trouble is he in now?

KEILAR: Plus, the business of nostalgia is booming right now as old songs make a modern comeback.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00]

BERMAN: New CNN reporting this morning about an overwhelming sense of frustration among Democrats over what is being described as mismanagement inside the Biden administration, with one member of Congress calling the White House rudderless, aimless and hopeless.

Joining us now, former presidential candidate, former DNC chair, the former governor of Vermont, Howard Dean, and CNN Political Commentator and Attorney Bakari Sellers.

Friends, this article has a lot going on inside of it. There's one anecdote, Bakari, that on the morning that the Supreme Court came out with the decision to overturn Roe versus Wade, Dana Remus, the White House counsel, was telling everyone inside the White House, according to this article, the decision is not coming today. It's not coming today. So, as a result, the article says the White House wasn't ready to react to a decision that basically because of the political leak people had known was coming for months.

So, Bakari, what do you make of all of this?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first, I mean, when you talk about the anecdote from the article, it's inexcusable. I mean, I said this past Sunday on CNN's State of the Union, and people thought I was out of my mind, that Democrats were caught flatfooted. And that's just fundamentally inexcusable when you have had weeks if not months to understand. And, I mean, Governor Dean can tell you Republicans have been saying they were going to overturn Roe for 40 years. And so this wasn't something that should have caught us off- guard.

And the fact is Congress is still on vacation and the White House has still failed to put forth some concrete action. There are many of us who are supporters, who are friends, who are fans, who want something to do other than vote harder. And I think that is the frustration that many Democrats feel.

I do think if you are a United States congressman and you feel that foggy, you should actually put your name on that quote, but I do understand the frustration that many people are feeling that, look, we need something to do and we need Joe Biden to be present and to be a leader that meets this moment.

KEILAR: Well, to that point, Governor, it seems like the overarching theme is that Democrats want there to be urgency coming from the White House. They don't really feel like they're getting that from the president, and that includes Democratic leaders who don't feel that they're getting that from the president.

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I kind of disagree. Politico is a great gossip magazine for what I think is basically middle school on steroids, which is inside the beltway. And the truth is Joe Biden said things about the Supreme Court, which needed to be said, which I've never heard a president say. He's basically called them out for being unAmerican, unpatriotic and a failure and way out of step and taking away people's rights. That's an extraordinary thing for a president to say.

[07:25:00] It happens to be true. This is a Supreme Court that's gone rogue on us. I was delighted to hear Biden say that.

So, you know, who knows what the -- whatever deputy counsel said about when the decision was coming. This is -- I think this is mostly inside the belt way and it's also frustration, though. We're very frustrated. Here, we have people -- a court which has decided to adopt the legislative branch occupation instead of doing what they're supposed to be doing. And the truth is they're probably in lower repute than the Congress of the United States and that's hard to do.

BERMAN: Is it all just inside the belt way, Bakari Sellers? You are a Democratic activist, you know, in South and North Carolina, you're in both places a lot. What are you hearing? Is it just inside the beltway or are Democrats genuinely --

SELLERS: No, it's not just inside the beltway. And I can agree with Governor Dean on the fact that we were very happy and pleased to hear the president's words. But, you know, the scripture teaches us that faith without works is dead, right?

And so the question is, what are we going to do? I mean, I hear the verbiage coming from the president but what is the directive? I mean, when are we going to understand the pressure that has to be placed on Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin so that we can codify privacy rights? When are we actually -- and even if we can't do that why doesn't the United States House of Representatives actually put up a federal abortion ban and vote it down so that we can hang this proverbially around the neck of every Republican that's going to be running in the fall? I mean, do something, I think, is the point that people are saying.

There's been no executive action around Roe. There's been no executive action around reproductive rights. And so you're going to be calling on these same people to come out and support you and vote for you in August and September and October, as early voting kicks off for November. And the point is we're not giving folk anything to be excited about and we don't have that fierce urgency of now.

KEILAR: Governor, what do you think about that?

DEAN: I think there's some truth to the fact that Biden grew up as an insider, he has spent the majority of his life in Congress and he plays the inside the beltway game. But where I agree with -- or maybe -- I'm not sure this is an agreement, but what I would respond to Bakari as saying is this. This is not up to people inside Washington. Do not expect people inside Washington to change anything. This is up to us. We have to get out and throw these people out.

I want to see Shirley Beasley beat the butt out of this bud in North Carolina. He is an incompetent whack job and she's four points ahead and she could win. That's a Senate seat that we pick up. Look, we have to take matters into our own hands. We cannot rely on Washington politicians of either party to get this done. We have to go out and do it ourselves. We should have done what I tried to do when I was chairman of the DNC, and that's take over state legislatures. The fight is in the states and in the legislatures. It's not in Congress. And if we rely on Washington politicians to solve this problem, it's going to get worse.

So, this is where I agree with Bakari. This is on the ground stuff and we've got to fight state by state and district by district in the state legislatures to beat this. But I am not up for whacking the president of the United States. He didn't write that thing -- that ridiculous nonsense that pretended to be a Supreme Court opinion, and we have to -- we need Supreme Court reform. We need to pack the court. We need to get these people off. Clarence Thomas ought to be impeached and removed because he's ruling on cases that his wife has a financial interest in. This is a corrupt organization and needs to be fixed.

We can only fix it if we fight and we elect people at the local level who will get rid of these people at the federal level.

BERMAN: Is it that simple, Bakari? I mean, there is a phrase in politics, you want to get caught trying. I get that the president and the White House can't do everything, but is it the fact that Democrats around the country -- and, again, Isaac's article has got a lot of people talking and there is an article in The Washington Post today with similar themes that they want to see the White House get caught trying.

The Washington Post article talks about Governor Pritzker in Illinois, Governor Newsom in California, who are making a lot of noise.

SELLERS: Yes, and I'm not going to get caught up in the gossip. That's one thing that Governor Dean and I firmly agree on. I mean, I sat up here and had to bat down a lot of gossip when it comes to the vice president of the United States, et cetera, from political pieces. So, I'm not going to get caught up in that.

But I will tell you the overarching theme is accurate, there is frustration. And I think we have to do both. I think we actually have to make sure that we take back these legislative seats. When I was in the South Carolina legislature, when I first got elected, we were down six to eight seats. When I left, Republicans had a super majority. What we do know is that we lost 1,100 legislative seats during the Obama years. We have to take back those seats. We have to do things in state capitals.

[07:30:00]

But we also need Joe Biden and the White House to fight. That's all I'm asking. I'm not going to beat him up. I just need him to be the leader, be present in the moment, meet this moment.