Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Labor Standoff At Ports May Worsen Inflation And Supply Chain; From Campaign Trail To Suicide Watch: Vet Recounts PTSD Battle; The Business of Nostalgia: TV, Social Media Boosts Old Songs. Aired 7:30- 8a ET

Aired July 06, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (via Webex by Cisco): But we also need Joe Biden and the White House to fight. That's all I'm asking. I'm not going to beat them up.

I just need him to be the leader and be present in the moment -- meet this moment. Because I want him to throw the first punch. If he throws the first punch and guides us and tells us where he wants to be, then I'm down to jump in the fight with him, like 70 other million Americans want to jump in the fight with him. But we just like -- look like we don't have any fight.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Is he fighting right now, Bakari? Are you seeing him fight right now?

SELLERS: I think that we are consumed by the moment and the problems of the day -- inflation, Ukraine, still, Brittney Griner -- and I'm not sure that we understand which way is up. I think that when we get a moment of clarity and some ideas -- and Gov. Dean will appreciate this -- Bill Clinton used to say ideas win elections. And we just have to become a part of ideas again and right now we're not.

BERMAN: Bakari Sellers, Gov. Howard Dean, thanks so much for being with us.

GOV. HOWARD DEAN, (D) FORMER GOVERNOR OF VERMONT (via Webex by Cisco): Thank you.

SELLERS: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, the Dow did recover from a 700-point drop, and the price of oil is as low as it's been in a month -- or months. What does it tell us about the possibility of a looming recession?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And the Highland Park community and now the entire country rallying behind a toddler who lost both of his parents in the parade shooting. His grandfather is speaking out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:35:20] BERMAN: A possible labor dispute on the West Coast has the potential to further complicate the inflation situation here in the United States. The union contract that covers 22,000 workers at ports from California to Washington just lapsed. And Catherine Rampell warns that work stoppage, quote, "could wreak havoc on the country's already fragile supply chains with potentially catastrophic consequences."

With us now is Catherine Rampell, CNN economics commentator and Washington Post opinion columnist. And Dylan Ratigan, host of the podcast "Truth or Skepticism."

Catherine, this op-ed that you wrote highlighting the possible labor dispute out there -- it's a microcosm of all the issues --

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR, OPINION COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes.

BERMAN: -- plaguing the economy right now.

RAMPELL: Right. We have been really unlucky so far this year getting hit with unwelcomed shock after unwelcomed shock, right -- everything from a war, which has other tragic consequences but also affects supply chains, to an Avian flu, to the China lockdown, et cetera. And this is basically the last thing we could possibly want right now and it could present this being potential slowdowns or strikes, or lockouts, or anything else disrupting what happens at the already overburdened West Coast ports.

And it presents a really difficult question -- it could, anyway -- for President Biden because on the one hand, he has said that inflation is his top domestic priority. On the other hand, he has repeatedly called himself the most pro-union president in history.

So if, in fact, the union decides to play hardball here, as they have in the past few negotiations when this contract has lapsed and has come up for a renewal, and there is some sort of slowdown, what is the president going to do? Is he going to stick with the workers or he is going to say hey, you guys, no -- do what's best for the country, do what's best for inflation and keep working even if you don't get the terms that you want.

So it's a really sticky situation and I hope we don't have to face it. And I'm sure the president himself also deeply hopes that he doesn't have to come to that decision.

KEILAR: How do you think he should navigate this? I mean, what's at stake?

DYLAN RATIGAN, PODCAST CO-HOST, "TRUTH OR SKEPTICISM": The president?

KEILAR: Yes.

RATIGAN: I mean, I think it's impossible to solve a problem that you don't -- are not honest about. In other words, if you're not honest about why you have the problem then you can never solve it. And we're in a country that's had zero -- has -- we've had free money

for 10 years, OK -- zero percent interest. That wasn't nothing. That creates a precondition that makes us incredibly vulnerable to the sorts of things that Catherine is talking about. So now you lay a supply chain shock, you lay COVID and all these things on top of it, you're going to have inflation. You're going --

And so, the challenge for the president is not so much how does he fight inflation because everything he will do to fight inflation will get him to lose his job. There is no place -- there is no issue in the world that is more horrible for a politician to lose their job than inflation.

Because every action that -- every incentive they have to take action, whether it's to provide subsidies for gasoline or whether it's to accommodate the port and tell the laborers they have to keep working -- whatever it is, it's always going to be a bad political -- a good inflation decision is almost always a bad political decision. And that's why this is such a challenge.

BERMAN: You know, the issue gets down to the same issue that we've been talking about now for weeks, which is what the Fed is doing. Is the risk of inflation -- maybe even a permanent inflation -- is that higher than the risk of a recession -- a recession now, basically?

RAMPELL: Well, the reason why the Fed is raising rates and putting us at greater risk of recession -- and they know that they are -- is that they're deeply, deeply worried about inflation expectations getting entrenched. That not only will inflation not be transitory, to use the term of our -- from last year, but it could be quite persistent and last for years. That's what they're trying to nip in the bud.

And so they're saying we're going to raise interest rates. We're going to cool demand. We're going to try to do it just enough that we don't get into a recession -- just enough that price growth slows dramatically, but not enough that we actually have a painful downturn. And it's really hard to get that exact -- to thread that needle, essentially.

RATIGAN: This is typically what is thought and this is typically delusional. It's an impossible -- and again --

RAMPELL: It's a very challenging task. I don't know if it's delusional but it's a -- it's a very challenging task.

RATIGAN: Well, you're talking about the largest economy in the world. You're talking about a global phenomenon. Inflation is not just a United States phenomenon; it's an earthbound -- it's an earthwide phenomenon because the supply chain is the catalyst at the end of the day.

[07:40:00]

And so, if I'm choking off available -- you know, baby formula is probably the most famous one, but cars also with wiring harnesses and these sorts of things. When you choke off the supply chain, even if you reduce demand you're probably not going to be able to reduce demand enough to catch up with the level of the issues on the supply chain side.

RAMPELL: Especially if they get worse because there's a port strike or something.

RATIGAN: And on and on and on.

Here's a beautiful, wonderful, summer morning thought.

KEILAR: Give it to us.

RATIGAN: It's a beautiful day, and the labor market is fabulous. The labor market is strong. We are -- there -- we were complaining 6-9 months ago we can't find any work and no one will -- well, the labor market is in great shape. And a strong labor market is the number one greatest asset to navigate any short-term economic challenges, ranging from gasoline to inflation. So we're -- we are in better shape than we might think.

KEILAR: We'll take the silver lining.

BERMAN: Right, yes. Well, it is humid today, I will say. I mean, I know it's sunny.

RATIGAN: No, it's getting better. By this afternoon it's going to wear off. It's transitory.

BERMAN: It makes my hair frizz.

RATIGAN: It's transitory humidity.

BERMAN: All right. Dylan Ratigan, Catherine Rampell --

KEILAR: Mine, too.

BERMAN: -- thank you very much.

So, from the campaign trail to suicide watch. A once-rising star in the Democratic Party sharing his private war with post-traumatic stress that almost took his life. He joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:45:36]

KEILAR: From the campaign trail to suicide watch, a rising political star and former Army captain abruptly quitting his political run to battle PTSD.

It took Jason Kander a decade to get help and he details his new fight -- or his fight in a new book titled "Invisible Storm: A Soldier's Memoir of Politics and PTSD." Jason Kander joins us now. He is now the president of National Expansion, a Veterans Community Project. He is joined by his wife, Diana Kander.

The book is tremendous.

JASON KANDER, (D) FORMER MISSOURI SECRETARY OF STATE, FORMER U.S. ARMY CAPTAIN WHO SERVED IN AFGHANISTAN, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL EXPANSION, VETERANS COMMUNITY PROJECT, AUTHOR, "INVISIBLE STORM: A SOLDIER'S MEMOIR OF POLITICS AND PTSD": Oh, thank you.

KEILAR: And Diana, you are in the book yourself. You write in the book from your accounts, which I think is incredibly helpful for anyone who wants to understand this issue -- certainly, for military families.

But Jason, tell us why you decided to do this. You are revealing so much in this book.

J. KANDER: Yes. You know, this was the book that I wish had existed 14 years ago. I think that had I had this book to read and to understand it this way when I first came home from Afghanistan, I would have gotten treatment then.

And that's really important because look, there are people who went through more difficult things than me. It's just that what I did is -- it's sort of like any other injury. Like, if you break your arm and then you spend 11 years being like but some people had their arm cut off and you don't do anything about your arm -- well, after 11 years -- like, your arm ain't going to work. And that's kind of what I did with my brain.

And we're in a place now as a country where there's so much trauma surrounding us I feel like if there's one person -- and I think there are probably a lot more than one -- who can benefit from this book, that's worth it to be pretty vulnerable I think for both of us.

KEILAR: I think they are.

You also talk about secondary PTSD because you were keeping a secret. As he's going years through his political career you are keeping this secret. And you write about how at one point he turns to you and says "Do you ever think the world would be a better place without you in it?" And you say to him, "No. And then I asked are you talking about suicide? He sheepishly nodded as his eyes filled with tears. I felt a wave of emotion -- sadness, anger, and desperation."

But you go on to say "All I knew was that I felt scared and powerless and I couldn't tell a soul."

And I think you're in -- you know, in politics at this point, but also a lot of military families would feel that they don't want to risk a career.

How was that for you?

DIANA KANDER, ENTREPRENEUR: I think we detailed the -- like how not to do it. How not to do it for 12 years. And since going to therapy we've learned so many different tools and tactics to be a -- to be comfortable in that kind of a situation and know how to be a much better spouse, family member, or just friend to anybody going through a hard time.

J. KANDER: I wasn't like a picnic for 11 years to live with. But the whole time -- like, I thought, like, she was just being difficult. And it -- you know, it was like an M. Knight Shyamalan-level twist for me. Then it turned out no -- actually, that was me. I was the really difficult one.

And so, then when we went through therapy together because Diana ended up with a lot of my symptoms without the underlying trauma, which is a thing that we didn't know existed prior to going into therapy that post-traumatic -- secondary post-traumatic stress was a thing. So that's one of the other things we wanted to accomplish in the book, is making sure people knew that.

I'd like to also say there's also jokes. It's also --

KEILAR: It is funny.

J. KANDER: Yes.

KEILAR: It's pretty funny.

J. KANDER: Because I want people to not feel like well, I don't want to read that. It's helpful to people, so there's jokes, too.

KEILAR: You talk about getting a dog who actually, you felt had PTSD, who you still have. I love that.

You go as far as to even share your clinic notes.

J. KANDER: Yes.

KEILAR: I mean, you really open up here.

Talk a little bit about how politics was an avoidance for you from your PTSD.

J. KANDER: Yes, that's -- that was how I medicated, right? I threw myself into my career. For me, that was my career. I was a politician, right? So it became interviews like this or it was big speeches. And those became endorphin hits that would carry me through to the next performance and then I didn't have to be alone with myself in between.

And it was only when I got to the point where I was sort of at the zenith of that -- I was giving a big speech in New Hampshire where I was pretty much saying I'm running for president, and it was on national T.V. And when that only lasted 12 hours -- that endorphin high -- I knew something was pretty wrong.

KEILAR: You talk about not feeling anything.

J. KANDER: Yes.

KEILAR: There is sort of a numbness there.

So, this is a different book from your first one. (Laughter)

You're very different.

[07:50:00]

J. KANDER: Yes.

KEILAR: You're very honest here.

J. KANDER: Yes.

KEILAR: Is this a precursor to getting back into the political sphere?

J. KANDER: Well, I think people should read the book to get the full --

KEILAR: You don't answer that in the book.

J. KANDER: Well, I -- well, I felt I did but I guess that's me.

Well, look, it's not a precursor to that. It is -- for me and for us, I think it was a decision that we made that was -- hey, look, there's a lot in this book that at some point, somebody could use to make sure that if I choose to get back in and run, this might preclude that, right? It's pretty open and honest. But that's worth it to us because the greatest public service we can do right now is help people see that post-traumatic growth is a real thing and they can achieve it.

It's also why all the proceeds -- all my -- our proceeds from the book go to fighting veteran suicide and veteran homelessness at Veterans Community Project. I feel like this book is a -- is an important public service.

And at some point, we may run for something again but that's not something we're trying to do anytime soon.

KEILAR: Any time soon.

J. KANDER: We -- I mean -- you answer this.

KEILAR: Would you be open to that, Diana?

D. KANDER: Well, we're 41, so there's a lot of time ahead. But we have two small kids and we're pretty busy with two small kids.

KEILAR: Pretty busy.

J. KANDER: Yes. I'm coaching Little League and really enjoying it.

KEILAR: Well, the book was so helpful.

J. KANDER: Oh, thanks.

KEILAR: I just encourage so many people to read this because I really do think it is a public service. So thank you so much --

D. KANDER: Thank you.

J. KANDER: Thank you.

KEILAR: -- for coming and talking about it.

J. KANDER: Thank you so much.

KEILAR: Jason and Diana Kander, we do appreciate it. "Invisible Storm: A Soldier's Memoir of Politics and PTSD" out this week at bookstores wherever you can get it.

And if you or a loved one are dealing with suicidal thoughts, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. That number is on your screen. (1-800-273-8255)

What new polls are revealing about American patriotism and confidence in our institutions.

BERMAN: And what's old is new thanks to modern television and social media. The business of nostalgia, particularly when we're talking about music.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BUSH, SINGER-SONGWRITER: Singing "Running Up That Hill."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That, of course, is "Stranger Things." And what you're hearing there is the Kate Bush 1985 single "Running Up That Hill" that's back on the Billboard Hot 100.

[07:55:02]

CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten here with us.

A), great song; b) great show; c) this song is like top of the charts.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: It is. It's kind of amazing, right? Great show, great song, et cetera.

So we're seeing this kind of resurgence of 1980 hits thanks to "Stanger Things." So, "Running Up That Hill" -- a Kate Bush song in 1985. It didn't hit higher than 30 in the Billboard Hot 100 back in '85, but look at this. Now where are we? Number one on the official U.K. singles chart and number two on Spotify's top 50 U.S. chart -- all thanks to "Stranger Things," which is fueling this resurgence going up in the air of this Kate Bush song, which is pretty gosh darn good if you ask me.

BERMAN: And now, thanks to the season finale, maybe there's a Metallica song doing the same thing. ENTEN: It's -- you know what? Double your pleasure, double your fun. A stick of Doublemint gum.

Here we go. "Master of Puppets," Metallica, a 1986 song. The original namesake album topped out at 29 in 1986. But look at where we are right here -- number one on the iTunes rock chart, number two on Spotify's top 50 U.S. chart. So, clearly, "Stranger Things" is helping fuel resurgence in these 1980s songs.

BERMAN: You were basically a product of the '80s.

ENTEN: I am basically a product of the '80s. So, you know, what is my favorite 1980's song? This one was a little hard but when I was playing it with my mom the other day I had to know it was "Celebration" by Kool and the Gang because I'm here to celebrate with you all the resurgence of these 1980's songs.

So I guess my question is to my two favorite hosts in the morning, John and Brianna, what are your favorite 1980s songs?

KEILAR: Um --

BERMAN: "Tainted Love" -- Soft Cell --

KEILAR: Ooh --

BERMAN: -- which, by the way --

KEILAR: -- good.

BERMAN: -- wasn't the original. So it was nostalgia when it came out.

ENTEN: Ooh -- Brianna.

KEILAR: I'm going to go with "Don't Stop Believing" by Journey.

ENTEN: Ahh, of course. That's -- I loved watching that -- or listening -- watching the music video, listening to it in college. It was quite the thing to get your party going --

KEILAR: But --

ENTEN: -- on a Saturday afternoon.

KEILAR: I will say I caught it on the second go-round because I think it's like an early '80s song. I was born in 1980 so I caught it on, like, the second go-round. What is it -- on its third go-round now?

ENTEN: Love is twice as good the second time around and maybe it's thrice as good the third time around. So I'm all for it.

BERMAN: All right, Harry. Nice to see you.

ENTEN: Nice to see you.

KEILAR: OK, the nostalgia doesn't stop there. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOURNEY, ROCK BAND: Singing "Separate Ways."

FLEETWOOD MAC, ROCK BAND: Singing "Dreams."

SHOUSE, ELECTRONIC DUO: Singing "Love Tonight."

BEE GEES, MUSICAL GROUP: Singing "Stayin' Alive."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's bring in cultural commentator Christopher John Farley to continue this conversation. He is the author of "Zero O:Clock."

I love Fleetwood Mac. I say bring it back --

CHRISTOPHER JOHN FARLEY, CULTURAL COMMENTATOR, AUTHOR, "ZERO O:CLOCK": Who doesn't?

KEILAR: -- a million times over.

FARLEY: Exactly. I'm with you all the way.

KEILAR: Great. It's so good.

C.J., you say the resurgence -- it's not just about music. It's about intertwining the songs with other content, which we see there.

FARLEY: Exactly right. You know, I remember I did an interview once with Roseanne Cash and she told me about getting a list from her dad, Johnny Cash, of the 100 greatest country songs, and she ended up recording that album. "The List" was a huge hit.

But we don't often get those kind of recommendations from our parents anymore and we don't find, like, a cassette tape in the car or CDs by the record player that we can just sort of play. Because everyone's on their own air pods or on their own separate devices and there's no sharing between people, although we have all these ways of sharing music. So it's great when nostalgia is able to break through in this way through soundtracks, these sampling.

And I think the reason why it breaks through in "Stranger Things" is because the songs are part of the plot. Master of Puppets -- I'm not going to give anything away -- no spoilers here. But Master of Puppets is an integral part of the plot in the finale. The Kate Bush song, "Run Up That Hill," is also an integral part of the plot. And so, people are drawn to the music because they're drawn to the plot of "Stranger Things" and that's great to see.

BERMAN: Yes, I think that's exactly right. First of all, these songs are doing better now than they were before. So it's not like we're remembering them, which is nostalgia -- it's that we're recognizing them now because they are so good and they're a key part of this plot, which is so interesting. FARLEY: Yes. I think when the sharing of the music is wrapped up in either a movie or wrapped up in a -- in a TikTok video, or something drawn from real life or something that we're enjoying, then the song has more value. It's not just this random song out there unanchored in emotion, unanchored in a plot, unanchored in reality. It's part of something real and we can get caught up in it.

KEILAR: It does occur -- with you saying that it just makes me realize I -- the memories I have are being in the car with my parents, actually, hearing Fleetwood Mac. Now I play "Paradise City" for my 4- year-old. That's one of his favorites. That's not the '80s -- that's '90s.

[08:00:00]