Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson to Resign; Officer Could Have Shot Gunman Before He Entered School; Police: Highland Park Gunman Considered 2nd Attack in Wisconsin. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 07, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:58:12]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good morning to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm John Berman alongside Brianna Keilar, and we have breaking news. A global political earthquake.

Boris Johnson, the prime minister of the United Kingdom, is resigning. We are expecting a live statement from Johnson any time now.

This follows an extraordinary, unprecedented 48-hour period where there was a mass exodus from Johnson's government. Ministers resigning, fleeing as fast as they could. More than 50 officials quitting amid the latest round of scandals.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: There's even new controversy in the face of the resignation, because there are reports that Johnson plans to stay on as prime minister until October, when his party picks a new leader; and he's not welcome. There are calls for him to go today.

This morning, there's already extreme jockeying to figure out who the next prime minister will be. And in capitals around the world, questions about who they will be dealing with and what it means for global stability abound.

Our special coverage begins with CNN's Nic Robertson. He is live for us at 10 Downing Street. What a dramatic day, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: What a hugely dramatic day. Boris Johnson last night was saying that he would cling on; that he would stay in office; that he believed he could win any leadership challenge.

When he woke up today, more government ministers were resigning. The number keeps growing. It's 58 government officials resigned, at least 27 of them ministers. And he recognized that he could no longer hold the confidence of the party and said -- or has indicated that he is going to resign. But is framing it in such a way that he wants to hang on in office, leading the party, leading the country, until the Conservative conference, which is in the fall in October this year.

So he has presented an idea that he would be the caretaker prime minister for a number of months to come. But it -- but it's already clear that is not going to fly with this party. The business secretary, Kwasi Kwarteng, just to name one, for example, has said we need to replace the prime minister now.

And there is some urgency. The opposition party are saying that it's not just Boris Johnson that needs to be replaced; it's all the Conservatives. The implication is that they potentially would want to call and push for a general election.

So there is pressure on the party to find a caretaker prime minister who can rebuild the government. The number of resignations is significant. One senior cabinet-level position was offered to a Conservative member of Parliament earlier today who turned it down.

So it's not even possible for this prime minister to rebuild his government and reshape it, as last night he was saying he would. So this is the scenario. The prime minister expected to come out and speak today, perhaps in the next couple of hours. He's likely to want to frame his resignation, listing his successes, Brexit undoubtedly one of them, and will likely airbrush out all the reasons that sort of brought him to the position of being forced out of his own party.

BERMAN: A full government implosion. That's what this really is, in the United Kingdom, a key ally of the U.S. Nic, just explain to our viewers the most recent scandals that necessitated this resignation.

ROBERTSON: The significant ones -- and there have been numerous -- but the recent significant ones are known -- are known in the U.K. as Party-gate.

And that was because, during COVID -- and the prime minister recognized this yesterday, saying that there was a culture of alcohol within the party, within No. 10, that -- that he -- that wasn't comfortable with him. But there were a number of parties here in Downing Street, on the premises, that the prime minister attended during COVID, which was against COVID regulations, that the police investigated, as well as a senior civil servant.

And the prime minister was actually fined. He was found guilty of breaking one of the laws that he and his party had created, that the rest of the country were living by. So that was a scandal, but he managed to weather through that recent one.

But it was Chris Pincher, the -- a former deputy chief whip, who sexually assaulted two people at a private club in London early on this week.

Now, the prime minister said he wasn't -- initially said he wasn't aware that this M.P. that he had appointed had a track record of previous sexual assaults. That's what the prime minister said initially. That story changed.

And that's really what began to, if you will, the straw that broke the camel's back, that members of his party really saw that, on this, he could not be trusted, didn't understand the consequences of his actions and what it meant; and even to the point that one cabinet member had been out, passing over the weekend, Boris Johnson's version -- on the past few days, passing Boris Johnson's version of events, essentially telling things that proved not to be true.

So ministers recognized that Boris Johnson was willing, in essence, to hang them out to dry. And this is really what turned the corner here.

And then the resignations of the chancellor, the exchequer of finance ministry, if you like, the resignation of the health secretary, both top jobs -- Boris Johnson filled them. But 27 ministers in the past just over 24 hours have gone, and it's been a litany. This morning the prime minister woke up to three more ministers resigning, and that's what seemed to have tipped him over the edge.

BERMAN: Yes. Pattern of obfuscation and less-than-honest responses to the scandals that were presenting themselves.

Nic Robertson, stay there for us. Obviously, we're watching 10 Downing Street. We expect to hear from Boris Johnson anytime.

Obviously, Johnson has been a key ally, a very visible working partner with President Biden and Donald Trump before that. So let's go right to the White House to get reaction from there.

CNN's Arlette Saenz there for us this morning. Arlette, obviously, White House officials waking up to this news this morning. Any reaction yet?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So far no reaction from the White House, John. But President Biden is waking up here at the White House this morning to this new news that one of the U.S.'s closest allies, the leader of that country of the United Kingdom, will be resigning.

Of course, Boris Johnson has been an especially key ally when it comes to the issue of Russia and Ukraine.

Now, yesterday, the White House declined to engage in these questions about the resignations that were taking place over in the British government, as well as declined a weigh in on specifically those calls for Boris Johnson to resign as prime minister.

President Biden last saw Johnson when he was traveling abroad in Europe last week for that G-7 summit in Germany, as well as the NATO summit in Madrid.

[06:05:06]

But President Biden has been working incredibly closely with Johnson when it comes to Russia and Ukraine, trying to ensure that Ukraine has the support that they need, but also trying to counter Russian President Vladimir Putin and ensure that NATO and European allies were sticking together in their response.

So now the White House and global leaders are really going to have to navigate this changed landscape as Johnson will be stepping down. Of course, the U.S. and the U.K. have long boasted what they have

called that special relationship, President Biden has seen what some of these transitions have been like when previous British prime ministers have stepped down from their posts.

But there will be questions going forward about what that relationship will be like as President Biden and Boris Johnson have worked incredibly closely, especially when it comes to that issue of Russia and Ukraine.

BERMAN: All right. Arlette Saenz at the White House. Stand by for us there. Keep us posted as to what you hear, Arlette.

KEILAR: And joining us now, CNN chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour. Such a dramatic wake-up this morning, Christiane. How shocking is this?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, to be honest with you, not really, because in terms of the unfolding crisis, this has been unfolding; and it was really just a matter of when and how, not if.

It has come today, which some say gives him a slight tread of clinging on to a little bit of dignity to be able to actually resign, rather than what was actually going to happen on Monday, when a key committee was going to vote to change its rules to have another vote of confidence, which he was bound to lose, as the numbers show. And then he would have been kicked out.

So this is a small shred of him being able to, you know, at the behest of many of these resigning ministers, to actually resign.

But just to put it into historical context, a historian today basically quoted this fact. In the last 300 years, five -- rather, 55 British prime ministers, none has gone down in such spectacular flames as this one. And this is not about policy, per se. It is about a matter of personal integrity, what they say is dishonesty, and the inability to govern.

Nic laid out -- Nic Robertson, a little earlier -- some of the issues that he's had to deal with, the crises. He has stepped so far outside what's expected of mainstream politics, flung up so many scandals over the last three years that he's been in office, that it's all just accumulated. It is a matter of personal integrity and the, actually, inability to govern, which is one of the fault the ministers, Rory Stewart, told me last night on my program. Listen to how he described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RORY STEWART, FORMER CONSERVATIVE MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Well, at some basic level, almost anybody in Parliament would be a better prime minister than Boris Johnson. And Larry the Downing Street cat at the moment would be a better prime minister, because the point is that he simply can't govern.

The whole thing has become like a reality TV show. And this has been going on for months.

It's impossible for him to have a long-term economic policy. It's impossible for him to announce any policies or be taken seriously, because every single week there is another scandal. Almost all of them of his own creation, almost all of them made worse because he lies and tries to avoid before he finally comes through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Well, there you are. And that is from a former Tory Party minister, not a member of the opposition.

And that also clearly, you know, lays out the big questions as to whether he can actually, as he wants to, take a, quote, unquote, victory lap and be the caretaker prime minister.

It looks like nobody is going to stand for that. We'll see -- we'll see what the rules say. And what the party says.

But, remember that Boris Johnson, as prime minister, has not only presided over all of this scandal, but a plunge in his own personal popularity, a plunge in the popularity of the party, a loss of two or more very crucial recent local elections, and that is what matters to the party.

At one point, it was considered that Johnson was the necessary, quote, unquote, "useful idiot," the poisoned chalice, because he could actually win elections. But even that has proven to be less and less of a reality right now.

So this is what's going on. And again, to put it into context, he has been in office for two years and 348 days. That is the same amount of time as Neville Chamberlain, who as you remember, was kicked out over saying that peace in our time during World War II. And Boris Johnson, who compares himself to Churchill, has not actually stood up to this.

And just another issue over foreign policy. The U.S. government is not pleased with the Boris Johnson government. They have not rushed to give him a free trade deal as he wants because of his threat to the Northern Ireland peace process. Congress is not pleased with Boris Johnson and his perpetual threat to Northern Ireland and the Good Friday peace process.

And in addition, the Ukraine policy, well, that's British policy. It's not Boris Johnson policy. It will continue. It is British, European, NATO, U.S. policy to defend Ukraine. And that will not change.

BERMAN: You can see even in that synopsis, Christiane, what a whirlwind the Boris Johnson era has been. What a two-plus years this has been with him as prime minister, for a variety of reasons.

And as you noted, even as he resigns in scandal, there is a potential scandal brewing in that, because he wants to stick around, we think, until October. But if you're leaving, because your government has lost faith in your honesty and your ability to be forthright, it's hard to stick around for three months. AMANPOUR: Well, I mean, look, you're absolutely right. And that's what

all his own party members are saying, particularly those who've exited, you know, in a mass stampede.

They're saying, by the way, hang on a second, who's actually going to help him govern, quote, unquote, for the next three months, because we can't go back into government. We've actually resigned. So who is going to do that for him?

But he is still looking at this through his own personal prism, clearly, and not through what's best for the party and most importantly, what's best for the country.

And even international interlocutors and negotiators. Who's going to take him seriously in Europe, as he's, you know, mortally wounded? He won't be there. He's already got so far under their skin over the, you know, E.U. Brexit negotiations, they're not going to take him seriously.

You know, the U.S., as I said, is going to look at him as a lame duck and not take him seriously. How can he negotiate any international whatever that needs to be done right now, much less deal with inflation, with the whole domestic economic crisis, with the resurgence of COVID, with the whole, you know, poverty issue that is going on right now, and with a -- with an actually a weakish economy.

So this is something that these are all big questions. And, remember that David Cameron, for instance, the last prime minister -- well, there was Theresa May, but before that, when David Cameron lost the Brexit referendum to Boris Johnson, he said that he was going to leave. Literally within hours, he came out to that door, with the podium and said, I would like to have stayed, but clearly, I can't. This was a referendum as much on me and my premiership as it was on Brexit. So he did the right thing.

Margaret Thatcher also, she didn't stay around when it was clear that she had to leave, and that happened in the middle of a war, actually. In the middle of the Gulf War, Margaret Thatcher was kicked out.

But policy continued, because there's a massive civil service here. It's not like, you know, in the United States. There's a huge civil service and a bureaucracy that keeps this place going.

And, you know, if he doesn't go, this could weaken Britain's already weakened position on the international stage; because Brexit did weaken Britain's throw weight on the international stage. It's a smallish country, but it has always punched above its weight on the international stage. But Brexit even threatened that.

And as I said, you know, Boris Johnson tried to say, I have a mandate, I was elected that many years and days ago, by a majority. That's true, but it's not like a presidential system. The British is a parliamentary system. It's about electing the party, not the person.

KEILAR: Certainly. And Christiane, we're going to be getting your input throughout the show. We'll have you back later as all of this unfolds.

But you know, Berman, it's going to be very interesting to see. He's made so many choices where he's put himself before Britain. And that seems to be what the referendum here is. What is the choice, ultimately, that he's going to make on sticking around or not?

BERMAN: And again, looking at live pictures of 10 Downing Street, to be clear, this isn't over yet. We know he's going to resign, but how? For how long will he stay in office? Why his statement coming up at some point, will be so important.

KEILAR: And we will follow that.

A scathing new report on the police response to the Uvalde shooting finds that lives could have been saved if the officers took different actions.

And a confession from the suspect in the Highland Park July Fourth parade shooting. New details about a second location that he considered attacking.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:18:19]

KEILAR: We have some new developments in the Uvalde elementary school massacre. According to a scathing new report, on the law enforcement response, the Uvalde police officer armed with a rifle spotted the gunman outside of the school before he ever entered and asked for permission to shoot him.

His supervisor either did not hear him or responded too late. And there is a big question about whether that officer would have even needed permission.

By that time, the gunman was inside the building, where he killed 19 students and two teachers. Rosa Flores joins us live now from Houston.

Rosa, this is a devastating report.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it is devastating; and these details are stunning, Brianna, because there are two instances, according to this report, in which law enforcement had the opportunity to stop the shooter before the gunman entered the school.

Now, the first one is very early on, right after the gunman crashed near that school. According to the report, there was a police officer there, and let me quote from the report.

It says, quote, "The officer, armed with a rifle, asked his supervisor for permission to shoot the suspect. However, the supervisor either did not hear or responded too late. The officer turned to get confirmation from his supervisor, and when he turned back to address the suspect, he had entered the west hallway unabated."

There was a second opportunity, according to this report. There was a police officer in a police cruiser in the parking lot. However, this report says that that officer was driving too fast. That officer did not stop. Otherwise, that officer would have seen the gunman before the gunman entered the school.

Another failed opportunity, once the gunman was inside the school and officers had actually entered the school, according to this report, the authors say that the officers, quote, "lost momentum," because they didn't return fire with equal fire and instead retreated.

When it comes to the incident command, up until now, we've heard from Texas DPS, who has identified the incident commander as the school police chief, Pete Arredondo, something that he has denied. This report says that part of the problem was that there was no incident command.

I'm going to quote from the report. It says, quote, "It does not appear that effective incident command was established during this event. The lack of effective command likely impaired both the Stop the Killing and the Stop the Dying parts of the response."

And, Brianna, we know, of course, that 21 people died, including 19 children and two teachers.

KEILAR: Can't imagine being the families listening to these findings of this report. Rosa, thank you so much for detailing that for us.

BERMAN: With us now, Jillian Snider, the criminal justice and civil liberties policy director at the R Street Institute and a retired NYPD officer. Jillian, thanks for being with us.

I want to get right to what I think is the most glaring thing from this report, which is that an officer had a shot at this killer before he entered the building, and asked for permission to take it. Did that officer need the permission?

JILLIAN SNIDER, CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND CIVIL LIBERTIES POLICY DIRECTOR, R STREET INSTITUTE: No. Based on all the reports, based on everything that's come out thus far, and based on the totality of the circumstances, that officer did not need permission.

He knew there were shots fired. There were 911 calls saying there were shots fired. He observed an armed gunman entering a school or attempting to enter a school. He had every right under the law to open fire.

KEILAR: We have to remember, too, Jillian, that this gunman, it wasn't just shots inside of the school. He was firing outside of the school through windows, initially. In fact, there were some teachers and students who were wounded that way.

So this, you know, when you hear this officer saying or you hear the findings saying that this officer was worried, that his bullets from his gun might actually end up injuring students or injuring someone, what do you think about that?

SNIDER: You know, you have to neutralize the threat, and that's a term we've been listening to for the last six weeks.

Now, these situations unfold so quickly. You have to be trained. You have to be ready to engage at a moment's notice, because what are you supposed to do, stop the killing, stop the dying. You're supposed to protect the victims and protect potential victims.

So in this situation, the -- the suspect, he did crash his car, got out. He opened fire. He then hid behind cars in the parking lot, opened fire. And that officer could have neutralized him prior to him entering the building.

BERMAN: Jillian, the authors of this report point out something you did. This isn't about assigning blame, they say. This is about trying to fix it and understand what went wrong going forward.

And this does come down to training. This officer needed to be trained, that there was no permission needed to take the shot. It needed to be almost instinctual.

SNIDER: It's -- every agency trains their officers differently. But the one thing that I'm pretty sure all law enforcement officers agree with is if there is a threat, an imminent threat of harm or death to anyone, an officer, a civilian, there is someone openly engaging in firing a weapon, that officer has every right under the law to stop that threat.

BERMAN: Jillian Snider, as always, thank you for helping us.

SNIDER: Thank you.

KEILAR: The gunman who killed seven people at a July Fourth parade in Highland Park, Illinois, has confessed to the mass shooting, and we're learning that he seriously contemplated a second attack later that same day in Wisconsin.

Adrienne Broaddus is live for us in Highland Park. Adrienne, what do we know about his plan for a second mass shooting?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, that information was so disturbing, coming out of court yesterday after learning Robert Crimo planned to target another celebration after killing seven people here.

Now, investigators say he drove to Madison, Wisconsin, scouted -- scouted, excuse me, a group of people where there was another celebration, but changed his mind.

Remember, when he was arrested here in Illinois, investigators found another high-powered rifle in his vehicle. Authorities believe he changed his mind, because he didn't research or plan that attack out like he did the one here.

Meanwhile, everyone, we are also learning more about this seventh victim. His name is Eduardo Uvaldo. His family says he died yesterday morning. He had eight grandchildren, and I spoke with one of them yesterday. She said her grandfather, who was from Mexico, loved fishing and

doodling. He was in town because she says they begged him to come visit.

Meanwhile, back on Robert, he also admitted to being depressed three days before police were called back in 2019. You may remember members of law enforcement got two calls from his family in 2019. One of those calls involved the suspect saying or threatening to kill his entire family.

[06:25:12]

When police showed up to the home, they removed 16 knives, a dagger, and a sword -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Adrienne Broaddus, thank you so much. We appreciate the report.

We do have some more on the breaking news out of London. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is set to resign. We are expecting to hear from him at any time now. We'll have the latest on the international fallout from this.

BERMAN: And then coincidence or not? Two of the people that former President Trump had targeted the most, both the subjects of highly unusual and invasive IRS audits. One of them joins us, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:00]