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Bannon Says He's Willing to Testify, Just Days Before Trial; Top Democrats Rule Out 2024 Bids Amid Fears a Challenge Hurts Biden; Zelenskyy Vows Revenge as Death Toll Rises in Apartment Attack. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 11, 2022 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Monday, July 11th. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

Explosives, death lists, warfare training, new details coming out about how the Oath Keepers operated, allegedly, from DOJ.

Plus, more on the Oath Keepers' alleged plan to attack the Capitol and overturn the election on January 6th, and tomorrow an Oath Keepers insider, a former insider, the former spokesperson for the far-right militia group is set to testify about the group's inner workings and the role it played in the attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON VAN TATENHOVE, OATH KEEPER: Just to give a historical precedence to this group and how they have kind of radicalized. I was the propagandist for the Oath Keepers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, January 6th committee members have made claims that they can link members of Trump's inner circle to the Oath Keepers.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And new this morning, the Justice Department firing back at Steve Bannon's sudden about-face that he's willing to testify before the January 6th committee just days before his contempt trial begins. Trump is waiving executive privilege, as he said -- as Bannon has said, and waiving should certainly be used loosely here, perhaps in quotation marks so that Bannon can testify, but the DOJ says that doesn't matter even one bit. We're going to have more on that in a moment. Experts obviously believe that never applied in the first place.

We do begin with Sunlen Serfaty who is on Capitol Hill with more on tomorrow's big hearing. Sunlen, what are we expecting?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna. Certainly a big week up here on Capitol Hill with two big hearings from the January 6th committee starting with tomorrow. Now, tomorrow's hearing will be largely focused on the mob who participated, how did it get organized, how did it come together and the connections with the Trump White House. The committee really wants to dig into these far-right extremist groups, those folks that showed up here in Washington, like the Proud Boys, like the Oath Keepers, and certainly the connection with the Trump White House.

Now, the committee has not yet released the full witness list but we do know that a former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers will be testifying up here on Capitol Hill. He has said that he has inside information on the inner workings of the group.

Now, the committee also making it clear that they will be zeroing in on two dates, December 18th. That was a key White House meeting that Trump had with his inner circle, some of the largest election deniers in the White House, and then the day after, the day after -- excuse me, December 19th when he sent this tweet out calling his supporters to come to D.C. on January 6 saying, quote, be there, it will be wild.

Now, one of the committee members, Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy, talking about the importance they were placing not only on that tweet, of course, but that White House meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-FL): We will lay out the body of evidence that we have that talks about how the president's tweet on the wee hours of December 19th. Be there, be wild, was a siren call to these folks. And we will talk in detail about what that caused them to do, how that caused them to organize, as well as who else was amplifying that message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now, one other potentially huge moment this week, we will likely hear video of the testimony of Trump's White House counsel, Pat Cipollone. He, of course, was up here on Capitol Hill on Friday and he spoke with the committee behind closed doors for nearly eight hours. He was, as you know, Brianna, by Trump's side for a majority of january 6, so, certainly, potentially huge and explosive moments this week up here on Capitol Hill.

KEILAR: We will be watching. Sunlen Serfaty live for us on Capitol Hill, thanks.

BERMAN: All right. Here with me now, CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, former State and Federal Prosecutor Elie Honig.

Elie, let's talk about Steve Bannon, who faces a trial for criminal contempt and all of a sudden says he is willing to testify before the January 6th committee. In a world where Bannon were to testify, and let's stipulate, that could very well be an imaginary world, but in a world where he did appear before the committee, what would the committee want from him?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: John, Steve Bannon, always seems to end up right in the middle of these messes, doesn't he? If he were to testify, and, again, I have my doubts about whether he will, we know the committee would have questions for him. Here is what Liz Cheney said in October. It appears that Mr. Bannon has substantial advanced knowledge of the plans for January 6 and likely had an important role in formulating those plans.

Now, that's pretty general but I think there's two things the committee would like to ask Steve Bannon about. First of all, Bannon along with other Trump advisers, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman and others, they were part of that war room that was meeting over in the Willard Hotel in the days leading up to January 6.

[07:05:08]

I think the committee would want to know who was there, what was discussed and, most importantly, were there links to the White House. We learned last week there could be a link to Mark Meadows.

The other thing, of course, is Steve Bannon's boastful claim in his podcast where he said, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow, it's going to be moving, it's going to be quick and all I can say is strap in. The war room, a posse, you have made this happen and tomorrow, it's game day.

Now, I think they're going to ask -- look, Steve Bannon has a history of exaggerating. Was he just sort of talking smack here or was he basing that on for foreknowledge?

So, again, if Steve Bannon were to testify, they would have pointed questions for him.

BERMAN: What is the history between Steve Bannon and the committee?

HONIG: There is quite a bit of history here. So, committee first subpoenaed Steve Bannon back in September. That was actually part of their batches of subpoenas. Now, Bannon defied that subpoena. He claimed executive privilege.

Let's pause for a moment, because I want to explain how weak that claim is legally. First of all, we're talking about executive privilege as applied to a former president. Trump was out of office by this point. Second of all, Bannon was not even in the government at that point. And, third, the substance of these communications are probably not even what executive privilege is about. It's supposed to be about legitimate policy considerations. So, it is an exceedingly weak argument here in defense on executive privilege.

The committee, the full House, they rejected it, they held him in contempt. DOJ rejected that argument, they indicted him.

Now, Bannon has been indicted. He's facing a criminal trial that's supposed to start one week from today for criminal contempt of Congress. And I should note, if he's convicted, he has to go to jail for at least 30 days.

Now, Steve Bannon has been desperately trying at the last moment to postpone that. This happens all the time, John. Defendants more often than not at the last minute say, judge, we need more time, we need more time, and DOJ fired back and said, this is just a last minute ploy to try to avoid accountability.

BERMAN: One added wriggle to the hole executive privilege thing, A, experts say it didn't exist. There are Department of Justice lawyers saying that Trump never even exerted it to begin with. So, it didn't exist and Trump didn't try to use it. We will have more on that in a little bit.

Okay. So, Steve Bannon, will he appear before the committee? And what will happen with his trial?

HONIG: Yes. So, there were some pretty dramatic turnarounds suddenly late last week. Donald Trump sends a letter to Steve Bannon saying, I did invoke executive privilege, but I thought better of it, you've been through a lot, Steve, I'm going to take it back. You can go ahead and testify. I'm dubious about this, as you can hear from tone.

Bannon then sends a letter into the committee saying, circumstances have now changed, Mr. Bannon is willing to and indeed prefers to testify at your public hearing.

Now, here is what I think is going on here. This is important. He says, I want to testify at your public hearing. Do you think the committee is going to give Steve Bannon a microphone and camera and said, go ahead, I doubt it? And if he does that, if the committee does that, watch for Bannon and Trump to say, they won't even let Trump's people come in and defend him. I think the committee countermove is to say, come on in behind closed doors, you can talk all you want.

BERMAN: Yes. They've deposed everyone first, as far as we know.

What about the trial itself?

HONIG: Yes. I do want to make this clear. Even if Steve Bannon were to walk in there and to testify about everything, it does not make the criminal charges go away. The crime was committed back in October when he defied the committee. You can't walk the jewelry back into the jewelry store that you robbed and say, here you go, I'm returning it, I'd like to undo the charges.

So, these charges will proceed. It could be that Steve Bannon is trying to soften up a jury here. If it's known out in the world, hey, he was willing to testify, the hope could be, maybe that will influence somebody. But this trial will go ahead. This ploy will not impact it.

BERMAN: Elie Honig, thank you very much.

And in this Bannon filing, again, we were just talking about it right there, there is a new revelation. The FBI has been interviewing a former attorney for Donald Trump. We will have much more on that ahead. Brianna?

KEILAR: New this morning, top Democrats say they are not running against President Biden in a 2024 Democratic primary, and that includes California Governor Gavin Newsom, who has been airing attack ads in Florida against Governor Ron DeSantis, a potential Republican presidential contender. Newsom insists he isn't running and he tells Isaac Dovere that Democrats need to be united. Progressive Congressman Ro Khanna says he would never do anything to weaken Biden. Still, the White House is worried about a challenge.

Let's talk about it former Democratic Ohio State Senator Nina Turner and Democratic Strategist and Host of the That Trippi Show podcast, Joe Trippi.

Okay. So, Joe, I'm very curious to hear what you both think about this. The White House might be reassured actually by Isaac's reporting. And I think that's part of the point of what some of these Democrats are telling him. But let's just ask the question should Joe Biden -- should he be running? Should he be challenged, in your opinion?

JOE TRIPPI, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, he shouldn't be. Look, first, thanks for having me. And, no, he shouldn't be challenged.

[07:10:01]

That's crazy talk. There's been no president that's ever been challenged -- I mean, this is going back to Reagan taking on Ford, Kennedy, who I was part of that campaign, taking on Carter. It's never ended well. It's always ended with the other side with that split party and the other side winning. That's crazy, particularly given the stakes today.

This isn't -- I don't believe we are in elections right now that are about right versus left or Democrat versus Republican. It's a pro- democracy coalition against this authoritarian movement that we're seeing out there with MAGA and other folks. It's a real threat and those stakes are too high to even contemplate dividing the party or worrying about anything but the November '22 election, which I think Gavin Newsom and others are doing everything they can to help strengthen the party and unify it.

BERMAN: Nina, Senator, you are a Democrat who has been critical of Joe Biden over the years. This news reported by Isaac this morning is that Democrats are not at this point going to primary Joe Biden and they're warning others to not do the same. In other words, stay out of this. Do you think that's the right path?

FMR. STATE SEN. NINA TURNER (D-OH): Well, this is, John and Brianna, this is about life and death. So, if the Democrats, my party, wants to push back the neo-fascist tidal wave that is happening from the courts to the streets, then it is going to have to deliver and change material conditions for the people.

Yes, people should come out to vote as if their lives depend on it in November, this November, next November and every November after that, but what my party must do, since it controls all of the levers of power in both chambers of the United States Congress and the presidency is they need to contort themselves through public policy as if their lives depend on it. People need relief in this country, and one way to back off any primary challenge, should there be one, is to deliver for the people. It is to give them something that they can feel. It is to cancel student debt. It is to go ham on this extremist Supreme Court. It is to embody the spirit and tradition of President FDR. And one of my fears, John and Brianna, in this particular moment, since people are so desperate and the pain is so deep, is that this Congress and this president are not bold enough for the moment.

So, we should not be basing the whole measure on what is best for the Democratic party, we should measure based on what is best for big mama and big daddy in hoods where people are misunderstood, whether it's the rural hood, the urban hood or the suburban hood. That is how you settle whether or not there will be a primary, deliver for the people.

KEILAR: So, Nina, you have heard, you know, the outgoing comms director for the White House pushing back on some of this criticism, saying that what President Biden is doing is not trying to be with out of step liberals, as she put it. And so I wonder, obviously, that flies in the face of what you were talking about. I wonder what you say to that.

TURNER: She's wrong, Brianna. She's wrong. See, these people, they live in a bubble, they are not living in the real streets. Yamiche (ph), a journalist who appeared on our network many, many times, was just in Cleveland interviewing two black women, one woman has decided that she is not going to vote for Tim Ryan, she's going to vote for the other guy who is extreme, and then another is concerned about this tough on crime and the impact that it will have on the black community, especially black men.

You have the black community that is the loyalist base of the Democratic Party voting over 90 percent of the time come hell or high water for Democrats and things not being delivered. And so even though this is just a sampling, it is very much a clue to how the voters are feeling and what anxieties are. So, somebody that is in the bubble talking about, you know, what the people are demanding is too much.

To have somebody be quoted while the women's march is marches on the White House to say, do more to preserve -- not preserve abortion rights, to beat back against this extremist court and to call them out of touch, there's something wrong. What the neo-liberal branch of the Democratic Party should not declare war on the progressive side of the Democratic Party because survey after survey shows that the progressive wing with the Democratic Party is more in line with what the American people want, in general.

So, they have to act like their hair is on fire and deliver for the people and then we as Democrats won't have to worry about who wins.

BERMAN: Go ahead, Joe.

TRIPPI: Look, I just think the threat to our democracy is stake here. That we -- I've lived through having fights within the party.

[07:15:00] It's not -- it never works, right? It just doesn't happen. You put the progressive's movement back further. What we got for Ted Kennedy challenging Carter and I was part of that was eight years of Ronald Reagan and four years of Herbert Walker Bush.

So, right now -- that's the reason I joined the Lincoln Project. By the way, I am a progressive Democrat. We need to be Republicans, Independents, Democrats, forget about wings of parties, forget about right versus left, Republicans versus Democrat. We have to pull together a pro-democracy coalition and motivate people to stand up for their democracy. And that's what the November 22 election is about.

And further, I think the big thing here is, look, in the wake of Roe V. Wade, in the wake of what the court has done, of the hearings that have happened on January 6th and the committee and, you know, the people have come forward, what's happened is the energy with Democrats, 92 percent of Democrats are strongly engaged in this election. It's the first time this cycle that Democratic interest in the race, in the elections, has surpassed the Republicans. So, people are coming together, that's what we need to do.

And, yes, the House -- Democrats in the House are acting like -- reacting like the House is on fire. It's Republicans in the Senate. And that's where we have to train our fire on. It's the Republicans that are holding up everything that we want to do for the American people on the kitchen table issues, on health care, on insulin, just capping it at $35. No, the Republicans all voted against that. There were plenty of Democratic votes to do that.

BERMAN: Joe, could I just ask, because, again, this article from Isaac was truly interesting. Hang on one second, Senator, if I can. What's truly interesting in this article are Democrats going out of their way to send messages that they are not going to primary Joe Biden. Isaac, who is a terrific CNN reporter, said Gavin Newsom specifically told him, talk to the White House, tell the White House, I am telling you I'm not going to run. So, what is Gavin Newsom doing as he tries to raise his national profile and gets aggressive around the country?

TRIPPI: Well, look, one thing --

BERMAN: Go ahead.

TRIPPI: I think Democrats have to be aggressive in taking on this threat. And I think that's the problem. Obama has got -- excuse me, Biden has to govern and he needs two for three votes to get anything done from the Republicans. And I think that that's still what he needs to do. But I think the Lincoln Project, I think Gavin Newsom, I think others out there, yes, need to be aggressive and take the fight to these people and to these -- and you've seen the president get much more aggressive in his rhetoric about it. I think he was resisting in that because he wanted to try to get things done.

But it's clear who the obstructionists are, it's clear where the threat is and I think I welcome Gavin Newsom, Pritzker, a bunch of voices have come out and have recognized I think what the threat really is and how hard we need to fight against it.

KEILAR: Nina?

TURNER: John and Brianna, let's take this to the streets. The American people don't have time for folks to sit up here and pontificate. We know exactly why those governors are dipping their toe in the water because it's just in case. They're sending a little signal that if indeed the president runs for reelection, we won't run against you, but just in case something happens.

Let's go ahead and tell the truth about this. So, Mr. Trippi has the luxury of being cool, calm and collected about what is happening in this country while people's lives are being destroyed. We understand that the Republicans are recalcitrant. They are no good. Today's Republicans are no good and they are a clear and present danger to democracy as we know it. So, if we do know that, then let's act like we know it.

My party has control of the Congress and the presidency and they should wield that power as if they have that power. They should wield as if it if the neo-fascists that are trying to take over the country starting with that Supreme Court is a danger and use the power on behalf of the people. Don't play with it, don't be timid with it, use it.

And one of the ways you can use it is to expand the court. The United States Congress, there is a bill to expand the court. The president is kind of whole hung (ph) on that. They should use federal lands to allow abortion clinics to be there. They should ensure that throughout this country that the abortion drug is available even in my states where -- like my state, where you can no longer get an abortion six weeks.

[07:20:09]

We must use that power in a way that gives people something they can feel and stop playing games. This is an emotional time for this country. Yes, the Republicans are dangerous and my party needs to act like it. It's just like having some firefighters come to your house, John and Brianna, and they got all the equipment and the fire chief says, you know what, we can't come in yet because we have to wait for a few more firefighters, even though they have all the tools at their disposal to put out the fire.

My message to my party is that we have all the tools at our disposal to put out the fire and we need to get at it so that people are more motivated to come out not just because of clear and present danger to our democracy but that we have elected leaders who feel their pain and who will ameliorate their pain. I want my party to stop playing games and let's get to business.

KEILAR: This is the discussion happening right now in the Democratic Party. Joe, Senator, we thank you both for being with us.

TURNER: Thank you.

TRIPPI: Thank you.

BERMAN: Right now, much more on the January 6th hearings, including the new revelations from a court filing overnight that the FBI has interviewed a former attorney for Donald Trump.

KEILAR: And the father of the gunman in the Highland Park parade attack is facing intense scrutiny this morning. The lead prosecutor in the case is going to join New Day.

BERMAN: And we're going to be joined by the pilot who somehow managed to dodge traffic and land his plane on the highway.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00]

KEILAR: New this morning, 20 bodies have been recovered from the wreckage of a rocket attack at an apartment building in Donetsk. And in Kharkiv, Russia carried out strike overnight, killing at least three people and injuring 28 others. That is where CNN's Alex Marquardt is joining us live.

Alex, tell us what you're seeing there.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Brianna. Well, it's been a very loud few hours here in Kharkiv, really few days. Overnight, as you mentioned, there were a number of strikes, at least three in the overnight hours that woke us up, those air raid sirens going off. And then this morning when we're out shooting a story, there was another barrage of at least three Russian rocket attacks, those attacks killing at least three people and wounding almost 30.

But I want to show you the aftermath of one of those overnight strikes. This happened right in Central Kharkiv at around 3:30 in the morning. You can see the immense damage that that Russian missile did on this residential building. It is a six-floor residential building at the bottom. You have two different businesses, and that rocket going in the roof of this building, collapsing that roof and every floor below it, causing all of the belongings, everything in those six apartments to cascade down to the bottom. I can see a kitchen from here where I'm standing.

We understand, thankfully, that no one was killed in this attack. There's a huge crater here at the bottom with city workers getting to work. They clean up remarkably fast after these blasts.

But, Brianna, this is the second time that we have been on this block in the past 48 hours. Two days ago at exactly this time on New Day, we were right here because there was another Russian strike inside a residential area in a courtyard over there. It's clear that the Russians are targeting this area for some reason. We are not sure why, whether there is some military presence, they believe, but it is another reason, Brianna, that we are not going to stay around here for too long. But as we've seen this uptick in these strikes in Kharkiv, we've also seen the Russians push far to the west to the eastern Donbas region, really stepping up their attacks in the Donetsk region. There was a vicious strike on an apartment building in the Donetsk region on Saturday. We know understand, as you mentioned, that death toll has risen to 20. There were almost two dozen people beneath the wreckage, beneath the rubble, so, emergency workers working furiously to try to get them out.

There is, Brianna, a huge Russian offensive expected to renew in the Donbas region to try to take that area. And as that happens, as that escalation happens, there is also a sense here that the Russians may try to push back towards Kharkiv after having been pushed out by the Ukrainians, really trying to capture this city, not just one of the biggest cities closest to the Russian border but Ukraine's second biggest and, therefore, a major prize. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right. Alex, we know that you are in a vulnerable area there, so we want you to head on out, as we know you're going to, and stay safe. Alex Marquardt live for us in Kharkiv.

BERMAN: Remarkable perspective there from Alex.

Today marks a week since the mass shooting at a July 4th parade in Highland Park, Illinois, the gunman admitted to opening fire, ultimately killing seven and injuring 12 more. And as the investigation unfolds, the shooter's father is facing scrutiny in part because he sponsored a permit allowing his son to purchase firearms before he turned 21, including the gun he ultimately used in the shooting.

Joining us now, State Attorney Eric Rinehart, he is the lead prosecutor in the case. Counselor, thank you for being with us. Can you give us an update on the status of the investigation?

ERIC RINEHART, STATE'S ATTORNEY, LAKE COUNTY, ILLINOIS: Yes, good morning, thank you for having me on. We have to continue to express our condolences and support for those who lost loved ones and those who were injured and those who have been psychologically hurt by this calculated attack. So many people are hurting in Highland Park. We are working on long-term support for those individuals this morning and my office is continuing to support them as well as the Attorney General's Office, the FBI and the Red Cross. So, there is a lot of work to be done here just to help people heal.

Regarding the investigation, I don't want to get too much into details but we're continuing to scour mountains of evidence with respect to -- with respect to the offender to try to understand what he was doing in the days and weeks before this premeditated attack.

BERMAN: You have said that the father signing the document vouching for his son, in and of itself, doesn't produce any criminal liability.

[07:30:05]