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Former Spokesperson for Oath Keepers to Testify to House January 6th Committee; Former Trump Adviser Steven Bannon Says He is Willing to Testify to House January 6th Committee; Gas Prices in U.S. Fall for 26 Days Consecutively. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 11, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

YASMEEN ABUTALEB, NATIONAL HEALTH POLICY REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": -- in states where these bans have already gone into place.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Yasmeen Abutaleb, thank you for sharing your reporting with us. We appreciate it.

And NEW DAY continues right now.

Good morning to viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. It's Monday, July 11th, and I'm Brianna Keilar with John Berman this morning.

Tomorrow the former spokesman for the Oath Keepers will testify before the January 6th Committee. And the panel says that we can expect new details from Jason Van Tatenhove about how far the far-right militia group operated and how it planned the attack on the Capitol in a bid to overturn the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON VAN TATENHOVE, OATH KEEPER: Just to give a historical precedence to this group and how they have kind of radicalized. I was the propagandist for the Oath Keepers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Committee members claim they can establish a link between Trump's inner circle and the Oath Keepers.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And in a brand-new court filing released overnight, the Justice Department is rejecting Steve Bannon's sudden willingness to testify before the January 6th Committee just days before his criminal contempt trial is set to begin. Bannon produced a letter from Donald Trump, Trump saying he is waiving executive privilege so that Bannon can testify. But here's the thing -- the committee and most legal analysts say no privilege existed in this case to begin with. And what's more, federal prosecutors argue Trump never invoked executive privilege here.

So, this DOJ court filing also reveals that former president Trump's attorney Justin Clark was interviewed by FBI investigators two weeks ago. Let's go to Washington. CNN's Whitney Wild is there for the latest on what we can expect in the committee hearing tomorrow, the Oath Keepers really front and center, Whitney.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. So this will be a very robust hearing, and this hearing again, will focus on how the violent mob came together and the role of extremist groups in that deadly insurrection. One of the big focuses will be this attempt to connect Trump allies directly to militia groups, such as the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys.

More specifically, this hearing could examine connections between Roger Stone and Michael Flynn and these extremist groups. A source tells CNN the committee plans to feature Jason Van Tatenhove, you heard from him. Again, he's a former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers. He's a self-described propagandist for the group. He maintains he was never a member of the group but, instead, described himself as a former employee.

Congressman Jamie Raskin told CBS on Sunday that Tuesday's hearing will reveal the fundamental importance of a meeting that took place in the White House on December 18th, after which Trump sent out a tweet asking his supporters to come to D.C. on January 6th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN, (D-MD) JANUARY 6TH SELECT COMMITTEE: People are going to hear the story of that tweet and then the explosive effects it had in Trump world, and specifically among the domestic violent extremist groups, the most dangerous political extremists in the country at that point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: Well, members of the committee have said it is very possible, and it looks increasingly likely that the public will hear from former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone who testified Friday. Brianna and John, this all comes, again, as the Justice Department is releasing a flood of new information. Some of it includes evidence against this overall case against the Oath Keepers. Prosecutors say through their investigation into that group, investigators found two illegal short barrel firearms, grenades, and discovered, excuse me, bomb-making recipes. Back to you.

BERMAN: Whitney Wild, a lot of different developments on many different fronts here. We appreciate that.

KEILAR: So, in a clip from the newly released documentary, "Unprecedented," which is airing on Discovery Plus, former president Trump praises the January 6th rioters. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we talk for a minute about January 6th?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, it was a sad day, but it was a day where there was great anger in our country. People went to Washington primarily because they were angry with an election that they think was rigged. A very small portion, as you know, went down to the Capitol, and then a very small portion of them went in. But I will tell you, they were angry from the standpoint of what happened in the election because they're smart and they see, and they saw what happened. And I believe that that was a big part of what happened on January 6th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's talk about this with CNN political commentator and the host of CNN's "SMERCONISH" and "The Michael Smerconish Program" on Sirius XM, Michael Smerconish. Michael, what do you think watching that clip?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: I'm reminded of the fact, Brianna, that in 1973 one of the more interesting exchanges from the Watergate hearings came when Howard Baker asked, what did the president know and when did he know it?

[08:05:07]

The question today, I think, is what went on in the Willard Hotel on January the 5th? And that's what all of the issues that you both have been discussing this morning, I think, are building toward. Can there be established a nexus, a causal connection? Did the White House, the Trump administration, have knowledge that not only would the promise keepers and the Oath Keepers and all of these others show up and protest, but breach the Capitol. And that's why I think Steve Bannon's testimony is so important, even though I don't think he gives up Donald Trump. But that's the issue, what went on at the Willard?

BERMAN: What do you think the committee has to establish, or how high is the bar for them in terms of creating that connection?

SMERCONISH: Some would say, John, that they've already met their obligation, that they've already met a threshold. Unfortunately, I think it all depends on the lens through which people are paying attention or not paying attention, as the case may be, to these hearings. But when you look at the case that's already been established, some would say the burden has been met, that there was collusion, that there was conspiracy between the White House and those who actually breached the Capitol grounds.

KEILAR: What do you think of how Steve Bannon is going about this? Because initially he cites -- or his attorney cites executive privilege, which really is fake because he wasn't at the White House, and so, he's not protected by that. It also turns out, in addition to being fake, it was nonexistent because the DOJ has pointed out that the lawyer for Trump says they never told Bannon's attorney that there was executive privilege in this case protecting Bannon or that they wanted him to use it. What do you make of how this is all going down?

SMERCONISH: There's a verbiage or slogan that I'll probably screw up that says something like, be careful when you catch a tiger by its tail. I think that he relishes this. I think that Roger Stone, to the extent that he comes up again, relished the opportunity to have their day in the court of public opinion. One of the more interesting issues, I think, that's probably playing

itself out behind closed doors now is whether we're going to get to watch this in real time, which I doubt. I don't think the committee wants to give Bannon that kind of an opportunity. They'll probably want to make sure that it's all behind closed doors and we simply see excerpts the way that we have.

I don't think there's been a Trump -- a pro-Trump or Trump-aligned witness we've seen live in front of the January 6th committee hearing thus far. Bannon wants to be that person. I don't think that he turns on Trump. I think he delivers a series of soundbites and pleads the Fifth. But he wants it. This is exactly what he lives for.

BERMAN: I will note that an Arizona elections official did say that he would vote for Trump over Biden if he ran again even as he said he was pressured in many different ways to overturn the election results. So it depends on what you mean by pro-Trump in this case. But no one has certainly defended Trump's actions publicly.

You wanted to ask about Paul Ryan.

KEILAR: I did, because there's a new book that is going to be out by Mark Leibovich, Michael. And former House Speaker Paul Ryan was sobbing as he watched the attack on the U.S. Capitol. That's not actually the part that I was most curious about your thoughts on. It was also the fact that Paul Ryan is not inclined to grapple with questions of complicity in the attack when it comes to the fact that he serves on the board of the FOX Corporation, or about the times that he may have had a chance to challenge President Trump and didn't. What do you think?

SMERCONISH: I think this may sound nutty, but Paul Ryan can have greater influence on the public discourse as a board member of FOX Corporation, the parent of FOX News, than he could have had as House Speaker. Such is the power and control of that media outlet on half the population. Leadership today for Republicans doesn't come from the RNC. It doesn't come from the Speaker of the House, when they control the House, or the Senate Majority Leader. No, it comes from the oracles on FOX, especially in prime time, who set -- people might not like it, but they set the stage, they establish what the discourse will be for, truly, half of those who are involved in public affairs.

KEILAR: It's a really interesting point. Michael Smerconish, thank you.

Ahead, we're going to talk more about the role of the Oath Keepers on January 6th.

BERMAN: New this morning, gas prices down for the 26th day in a row. That's a pretty good streak, 26 straight days, the lowest price since the start of the summer.

Joining us now, the co-host of "Truth or Skepticism," Dylan Ratigan. He's also a finally analyst and investor. Down 30 cents.

DYLAN RATIGAN, CO-HOST OF "TRUTH OR SKEPTICISM": Shocking, right? BERMAN: That's a lot, actually.

[08:10:00]

RATIGAN: I was completely surprised, and I think a lot of people were surprised. And when you look into it -- first of all, good morning.

KEILAR: Good morning.

RATIGAN: Nice to see you guys.

KEILAR: Great to see you.

RATIGAN: Thanks for having me back.

I was surprised, and I think a lot of people were. When I looked into it, it was sort of -- it was also a surprising answer. When the war started -- when Russia invaded the Ukraine in February, the reaction of NATO and the United States, as everyone knows, was a series of economic sanctions, incrementally more severe economic sanctions. One of those economic sanctions related to cutting off oil supplies from that part of the world, or at least importing Russian oil into U.S. and non-NATO countries.

I thought, and a lot of people thought, well, my goodness, this will reduce the flow of oil and make oil more expensive. And if you look at gas prices and what happened, oil became vastly more expensive, record profits for Exxon Mobile, record profits. And 100 days on, or whatever it is, 130 days on since the invasion, 140 days on, Russia has never sold more oil. They're selling more oil today than they were selling before the war. They're now watching a market that's completely flooded with oil.

In other words, the initial anticipation was, we're going to see a loss of oil supplies because of this war. Not even because of the war, because of the sanctions that are being done in response to the war. Those sanctions have not resulted in a reduction of the actual flow of oil on the earth, as we feared. They have made the ruble the strongest it's been in five years and they have allowed Russia to expand its oil market 18 times over in India, where the world is separating.

In other words, there was a moment where there was some fragility in that. Now the world is separating between the east and the west, basically. And you're seeing that even in that separation, that the flow of oil is intact.

Now, Germany and Italy are different than the United States because they're vastly more dependent, and I know you guys talk about this all the time with the gas pipelines and these sorts of things, and you're seeing the fuel and fertilizer prices extraordinarily high in Europe, and that's why you have all the farmers in Netherlands and all the farmers in Italy, and all the farmers in Poland and all -- not all, but you have these huge farmer protests because their profit margins are only one percent to two percent to begin with. And when you jack up their fuel and fertilizer costs because of the sanctions, now they're working either as a loss. And so, for Europe, this is a bigger issue, meaning the initial fear,

what's the cost of these sanctions. And so anyway, that's the -- you have that, and then you also have the aspect that the markets, since you and I spoke the first time I came here, John, a couple weeks ago, and then I got to meet you a week later, because of what the Fed has done, most of the measures of inflation fear have improved.

Remember, $14 trillion in asset value has been already taken out of the market in the last six months. The market has already adjusted to an economic slowdown. The economy hasn't because the jobs market is so strong, thank God, but the market has already made its adjustment and basically has concluded that the Fed -- between the Federal Reserve and some of these resolutions on the supply chain side that maybe it's not going to be that bad. We'll see how the inflation numbers come out. My point is that a slowing economy also helps reduce the cost of oil. Sorry.

KEILAR: But if you're just a regular person at home, and we're looking at these gas prices. We have this little disagreement in commercial breaks about this, because, yes, it's been so many days where you've seen the dip in gas prices, but it's still $70 a gas tank to fill up a Ford Explorer.

RATIGAN: Which is less than half of the rest of the world. The entire rest of the planet, including Canada, is $10.

KEILAR: Dylan, who cares if you're on a fixed income, is my point. If you're on a fixed income and it costs you basically half that not that long ago and it's cutting into your grocery budget.

RATIGAN: I couldn't agree more.

KEILAR: Then it is great to see it dipping, but when you have economists and the projections saying, OK, it is starting to dip slowly but it's not going to plummet, and we're going to sort of be seeing it at this level for a while, how much respite does that give someone who -- seriously, it's cutting into your other costs.

RATIGAN: None. Again, whether it's an individual who's now dealing with the higher gas -- filling their car here or whether it's the farmer dealing with fertilizer and fuel costs, the question you have to ask yourself politically is sanctions are only as valuable as they are -- as they provide leverage to correct. If I'm a parent and I want to do a sanction on a child, ground them or whatever, I can only influence their behavior to the degree to which I have leverage to do so. I believe that there's been a significant miscalculation by the American government and the European government on the amount of leverage they believe they have over Russia by cutting off the oil supplies, and that has been manifest by significant issues with costs for us, costs in Europe.

[08:15:00]

And if you look at what's happening in Russia, ruble, five-year high; oil outputs all-time high, higher oil prices, enriching Gazprom and the Russian. In other words, all of the theoretical corrective actions from these sanctions are -- the costs are being borne out whether it's the farmer protests or the inability to get 70 bucks for a tank of gas here.

But where is the benefit? Where's the corrective action?

KEILAR: Yes.

BERMAN: Dylan, great to see you.

RATIGAN: As with Elon Musk, we ran out of time.

BERMAN: We ran out of time.

RATIGAN: Well, I'm going to tell you anyway.

BERMAN: You should tweet.

RATIGAN: He makes impulsive decisions. Don't overthink it.

BERMAN: Go to Twitter -- go to Twitter, which maybe he's still buying for all we know. And you can post -- you can post your thoughts on him.

RATIGAN: It just depends on --

BERMAN: Exactly.

KEILAR: Impulsive billion dollar decisions. He's not worried about the gas prices. That's what's clear.

BERMAN: Thank you very much, Dylan.

So today, President Biden is set to tout bipartisan gun safety legislation with an event at the White House.

Our next guest will be there for that, and to tell the President that he believes it is not enough.

So meanwhile, 77 minutes of hallway surveillance from inside the Uvalde school massacre could soon be released to the public.

KEILAR: And CNN is on the scene following the assassination of former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. What we are learning about the assassin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:12]

BERMAN: This morning, disagreement in Uvalde Texas over the potential release of a 77-minute surveillance video showing police in the hallway during the attack there.

This, as Uvalde residents are demanding more accountability in the investigation and increased safety measures in schools.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is doing such great reporting there from the beginning, is live in San Antonio with the latest -- Shimon.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: John, a lot certainly going on in Uvalde.

Now, we were there over the weekend. Yesterday, there was a rally, a march. It was really one of the first times, moments where the community gathered together, hundreds of them along with family members really wanting change, and really speaking out, gathering, organizing, and I think that that is a very significant moment, because it is something we have not seen from this community and they are calling for people to lose their jobs.

They want the Chiefs gone, they want the police department changed. Of course, all this is happening as the investigation continues. People are still investigating exactly what happened here. You have multiple investigations that are ongoing, and very few answers for the community, for the family members who are demanding to see more information.

As you said, that video, that hallway video, they want to see exactly what officers were doing in the hallway, what agencies were there, and so they want change.

And the other big thing here, John, what's going on, is that school is about to start here, in just a few weeks, in the middle of August. And the parents and kids are concerned about going back to school because of safety reasons.

They want changes made at school so that they could feel safer. So there are a lot still here that's going on certainly and today, there will be more testimony, closed-door testimony in Austin before an investigative committee, the House Investigative Committee, so we'll learn more about that later.

But obviously, there is still so much to learn here -- John.

BERMAN: There certainly is and we can understand the anxiety with the school year approaching fairly quickly at this point.

Shimon Prokupecz, thank you very much.

KEILAR: Here, just a few hours, President Biden will hold an event at the White House to celebrate the first major Federal gun safety legislation in decades, which he signed into law last month.

In attendance will be a number of people who have lost loved ones to gun violence, and some of them plan to tell the President that this new gun bill just doesn't do enough.

One of those people is Manuel Oliver. He is the father of Parkland shooting victim Joaquin "Guac" Oliver. And also joining us is former Republican Congressman and self-described Gun Nut, Joe Walsh, who has done a lot of outreach to families who are seeking more action on this.

Manny, to you first tell us what you think of this bill and what you plan to tell President Biden if you get the chance?

MANUEL OLIVER, FATHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM, JOAQUIN "GUAC" OLIVER: Well, it's been a while that I've been calling out that -- using the word "celebration" getting together, it's like we're going to a party, to a wedding today. You know, we're all receiving invitations.

And meanwhile, you can see these mothers in Uvalde that just saw how their kids were massacred inside the school.

So for me, it's not only not enough, what we're passing, and you know very well, what I've been preaching for, and even the President asked for more, and it is not happening. So I really wish there was more in this package of bills, and I will do whatever I can to get more in this package of bills.

This is not the beginning or the end, there's a lot of people saying, this is the beginning. This is the end. No, this is part of a process and there was no reason for this event to be called as it is called right now, like we are celebrating and getting together in the White House. So let's wait for that work.

KEILAR: Yes. No, that makes total sense, Manny. Joe, what are you hearing from families?

JOE WALSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, it's interesting, Brianna. Manny and I probably disagree on most reforms, but gosh, I agree with him here.

The notion that this is any sort of celebration today is just off. We should be as you and I have talked about before, Brianna, doing everything we can do to make sure that somebody who shouldn't have a gun doesn't get a gun, expanding background checks, real background checks, real Red Flag Laws.

This legislation doesn't do any of that. I'm going to keep trying to find common ground with people like Manny and David Hogg, to really get background checks and Red Flag Laws that can make a difference.

KEILAR: Manny, you raised that idea of is this the beginning or is this the end? Are you worried that this bill, this passage means Congress isn't going to do anything for a long time?

[08:25:05]

OLIVER: Oh I am sure that's going to happen. Congress hasn't done much for a long time, so this is like giving a greenlight to Congress to wait another 30 years to do something else.

But guess what, we're not going to let that happen. I was yesterday, working on these in the City of Orlando. I was a week ago in Philadelphia, and I will be next week in Texas.

So for me, again, this is just part of a process. And anyone that thinks that this is a new start, a new beginning is probably showing that we can slow down our activism. Not me, not Joaquin, not my wife, Patricia, and not the thousands of cases that are out there.

KEILAR: So Joe, I think we all hope that this saves lives. And I think it probably will save lives, that's the expectation, but certainly it's not going to save all of them. If we see more shootings, then what? If we see another Uvalde, then what does Congress do?

WALSH: Brianna, I don't think we're going to see anything more major, or with more teeth in it until responsible gun owners like me put pressure on Republicans. That's my greatest fear with this.

The NRA and the gun lobby, they didn't want anything to happen, and my worry is that my former colleagues in Congress, the Republicans, this is going to let them off the hook now and they won't feel compelled to want to look into any other legislation.

It's up to responsible gun owners to work with folks like Manny to make sure that doesn't happen.

KEILAR: Manny, Joe, thank you so much to both of you.

This conversation will continue. Unfortunately, the violence will continue and we're going to keep talking about it with both of you. We appreciate you being with us.

OLIVER: Thank you.

KEILAR: Speaking of President Biden, he is on the defensive ahead of his controversial visit with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, why he is standing behind it.

BERMAN: And more on the January 6 hearings, including the former Oath Keeper spokesperson testifying tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]