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Trump White House Lawyer Subpoenaed By Grand Jury Probing January 6; Today: Biden To Sign Historic Deal On Climate, Tax, Health Care; Americans Escaping U.S. Over Inflation Driving Up Costs For Mexicans. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 16, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, there are a lot of factors to consider here and there are many in that leadership who are aware of just how important this issue is. But that doesn't mean, sadly, that I think any girl here can be more optimistic that this is something that's going to be resolved quickly.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And that is very said for them.

Clarissa, thank you for that report from Kabul.

A Pennsylvania man has been charged with threatening to kill FBI agents following the search of Mar-a-Lago. We'll have new details on that ahead.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And former White House lawyer Eric Herschmann joins the list of Trump advisers subpoenaed by a federal grand jury.

(COMMERCIAL)

BERMAN: Trump White House lawyer Eric Herschmann has been subpoenaed by a federal grand jury investigating the events surrounding January 6. That is according to a person familiar with the probe to CNN. Herschmann was a memorable and important witness for the House January 6 Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HERSCHMANN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: I said to him are you out of your f-ing mind? I said -- I said I only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth from now on -- orderly transition. I said I don't want to hear any other f-ing words coming out of your mouth no matter what, other than orderly transition. Repeat those words to me. And I --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did he say?

HERSCHMANN: Eventually, he said orderly transition. I said good, John. Now I'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. Get a great f-ing criminal defense lawyer. You're going to need it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:35:34]

BERMAN: He's describing a conversation he had with attorney John Eastman.

Joining us now is former senior investigator for the House January 6 committee, John Wood. He is currently running for Senate as an Independent in Missouri.

And John, you actually led the questioning of Eric Herschmann for the January 6 committee. What story does he have to tell? Where does he fit in this?

JOHN WOOD, FORMER SENIOR INVESTIGATOR, JANUARY 6TH SELECT COMMITTEE (via Skype): Yes. So, he's a really important witness, to borrow a line from "Hamilton." He was in the room where it happened. He was an attorney in the White House and a very close adviser to President Trump.

So there are a lot of things he could talk about as that clip you just showed demonstrates.

He can testify about his interactions with John Eastman and the entire proposal to have the vice president unilaterally overturn the results of the election at the Joint Session of Congress on January 6. He could talk about the plots to appoint Jeff Clark as acting attorney general so that he could try to change the results of the election. I think that he'll at least be asked about the so-called fake elector scheme. I'm not sure how much personal knowledge he'll have of that.

But there's a whole range of issues that he can be asked about. And as you can tell from that clip, he's a good storyteller and a very colorful and entertaining -- and yet, at the same time, credible witness.

KEILAR: He remembers details in conversations very clearly and presents them very clearly.

And look, add him to the list -- right, John? If we can put up this graphic of all of the former White House officials -- Trump White House officials who were subpoenaed -- Eric Herschmann, Pat Cipollone, Pat Philbin, Marc Short, Greg Jacob, Cassidy Hutchinson -- what is taking shape as far as this DOJ investigation now?

WOOD: A lot of these people are in the inner circle of Trump's orbit. I would also note that those are, by and large, people who have testified before the January 6 committee and whose testimony has come out.

So, it's hard to know exactly where DOJ is going with this because of the secrecy associated with grand jury proceedings, but I would guess that it's a lot of those issues that I just mentioned. Things like the effort to overturn the election by pressuring the vice president to do so unilaterally, to use the fake electors, and other things.

BERMAN: You know, it's also a lot of attorneys and a lot of people if you add Marc Short to this, who could claim -- some who have, in fact, claimed some kind of privilege in the past in their discussions.

How hard do you think DOJ will push to get beyond possibly claims of privilege?

WOOD: Yes, that's an interesting question. So I think all of those people that you all just mentioned are people who are on the right side of history and that they tried to stop President Trump from doing some things that could have been very dangerous to our country.

So I think that they are going to be credible witnesses who probably would be happy to tell their side of the story. But I think they also want to be responsible about privileges and so, they probably will decline to discuss direct communications with the president. And then, the question is will DOJ try to get the court to direct them to disclose those communications. It sounds like DOJ probably will do that?

I think the biggest question is how long will that take and will that really slow down the process for months?

KEILAR: It's become clear now, John, Rudy Giuliani has been informed he is a target in this investigation out of Georgia. He's claiming attorney-client privilege. He's trying everything that he can to delay any cooperation here. But how significant is this to you?

WOOD: So I think it's very significant. Just to be clear, this is -- now we're talking about a different investigation. We're talking about the grand jury investigation in Georgia as opposed to the federal grand jury investigation that we were just talking about.

But I don't think that Rudy Giuliani can get out of testifying simply by invoking the attorney-client privilege. At most, that would get him out of discussing his communications with Donald Trump. But as I understand it, the investigation of Rudy Giuliani is focusing also on his representations to the Georgia legislature regarding the 2020 election and he can't claim privilege over that. So, I think he's either going to have to testify or take the fifth.

BERMAN: That is a reasonable expectation.

John Wood, always great to speak with you. Thank you so much.

WOOD: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, President Biden is set to sign a very big piece of legislation into law. Are some Democrats having trouble explaining it?

[07:40:05]

KEILAR: And the clock is ticking as the school year is set to start and the nation is grappling with a shortage of teachers. We have the education secretary joining us live, ahead. (COMMERCIAL)

KEILAR: Today, President Biden is signing into law the Democrats' sweeping $750 billion health care, tax, and climate bill. It's the Inflation Reduction Act that represents the largest climate investment in U.S. history and makes major changes to health policy.

So this is a significant victory for Biden's agenda and for his party even as questions remain about whether it will live up to its name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): According to the CBO, it will, in fact, have a minimal impact on inflation.

JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CO-ANCHOR, "THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS": Isn't it almost Orwellian? How can you call it Inflation Reduction Act --

[07:45:02]

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No --

KARL: -- when the nonpartisan experts say it's not going to bring --

JEAN-PIERRE: So, I appreciate that. I appreciate the question. When you put it in its totality you will see that it will -- it will bring down -- lower the deficit, which will help fight inflation.

REP. MARK TAKANO (D-CA): These things may, in the end, not hit the mark fully on the bullseye, but Americans want to see their leaders trying to do something.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Those who have been blaming President Biden for the inflation going up are now giving President Biden all of the credit for inflation going down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What parts of the bill do you think will quickly work on that, specifically?

RASKIN: The -- next question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Oof.

OK, let's bring in CNN White House correspondent John Harwood to talk about that.

This is the trouble. It's not that this isn't a big bill, John. It's not that it doesn't accomplish things that have not been accomplished before and haven't been addressed in decades. It's that does it live up to its name? And you're hearing administration officials and Democrats having a hard time with that.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, it doesn't live up to its name. Let's be real. They called it the Inflation Reduction Act as a marketing device, in part to lock down the vote of Joe Manchin or to reassure Joe Manchin that they were focused on his issue. It is going to have a negligible effect on inflation. If it does anything, it might reduce inflation a tiny, tiny bit, but that's not what it's about.

What's it about is climate. It's about health policy -- extending Obamacare subsidies, lowering prescription drug costs by letting Medicare negotiate -- and taxing big corporations. That's the core element of the plan. If it does any appreciable to reduce inflation, that's gravy.

BERMAN: Yes. I mean, Larry Summers would say deficit reduction is inherently anti-inflationary. And also, raising taxes on corporations can be anti-inflationary, but maybe not in some kind of a huge way.

John, what do you think -- or how do you think the White House and the administration and its allies will sell this going forward, to the American people, in terms of what they will see and what they will like soonest?

HARWOOD: Well, first of all, there are a couple of things to be said. The decline of gas prices is something that makes Americans think that inflation is going down on its own, and it does. That's the so-called headline inflation. It's not the underlying inflation in the economy. That is heading down, too.

The Federal Reserve has been pretty aggressive in tightening, raising interest rates. They're going to continue doing that. So, the administration will try to associate this bill with declines in inflation that were already going to take place. But I think they're going to be able to sell it.

First of all, they've got a huge constituency within the party that cares very, very intensely about climate change. And this is the largest, as you guys indicated -- largest-ever investment in climate change that the federal government has made.

Secondly, prescription drug prices are a vital kitchen table concern for millions and millions of Americans, especially people on Medicare. And the fact that insulin for diabetics on Medicare is going to be capped at $35.00 -- the co-pay -- and the fact that the drug price negotiation is coming -- not immediately, but it's coming -- that's going to be very popular.

And so will, to some degree in a campaign setting, the notion that Democrats are taxing big corporations that haven't been paying their taxes.

All of that provides some campaign ammunition for Democrats at a time when many, many of the political environmental conditions are negative for them, as they always are in the first midterm for a new president.

KEILAR: Yes. I mean, that drug negotiation, big deliverable. But you know what? We're talking 2026 to 2029 --

HARWOOD: Right.

KEILAR: -- trying to sell people. Everyone lives immediate, instant gratification. It isn't that. So they're going to --

HARWOOD: That's right.

KEILAR: -- try to sell that.

John Harwood, thank you so much.

HARWOOD: You bet.

KEILAR: So, an unexpected border crossing. Why Americans are headed south into Mexico to work.

BERMAN: And former Trump national security adviser John Bolton here on NEW DAY as the Justice Department opposes the release of the Mar-a- Lago search affidavit.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:53:31]

BERMAN: This morning, a growing number of Americans making Mexico City their new home as inflation drives up the cost of living in the United States, but some say the influx of Americans is now making life too expensive for Mexicans.

Our friend, CNN's David Culver, has this story. Good morning to you, David.

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, John and Brianna. Good morning to both of you.

So, really, this started in part out of COVID. You had folks who were leaving some of the pricier cities -- places like where you are in New York, places like here in L.A. -- and they were headed to cheaper spots. But, now what we're starting to see as the months and now years have passed is that for some, it has become an overstayed welcome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER (voice-over): Look past the charming cafes, scenic parks, flashy apartments, and you'll see this capital city for what it's becoming -- a refuge for migrants.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I grew up in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: L.A.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Atlanta, Georgia.

CULVER (voice-over): Perhaps not the border crossing you expected. Americans leaving pricey U.S. cities heading south to work from home in Mexico City.

ERIK RODRIGUEZ, U.S. EXPATRIATE LIVING IN MEXICO CITY: It is starting to feel like home. I've been here for several months already.

CULVER (voice-over): Born and raised in the U.S., Erik Rodriguez hardly speaks Spanish and admits he's not here to rediscover his Mexican roots so much as to save money.

RODRIGUEZ: In San Diego, my apartment was probably $2,500.

CULVER (on camera): For a one bedroom.

RODRIGUEZ: For a -- for a studio.

CULVER (on camera): For a studio.

RODRIGUEZ: Here, I have a one bedroom and I pay $800 a month.

[07:55:00]

CULVER (voice-over): The State Department says 1.6 million U.S. citizens live in Mexico but they don't say many are living and working there on tourist visas. The Mexican government does not track that data either but they recorded more than 5.3 million American tourists flying in during just the first five months of this year -- nearly a million more than that same period in 2019, pre-pandemic.

Rodriguez is among the unrecorded but undeniably present so-called digital nomads, here officially as tourists -- most working remotely for U.S. companies and still getting paid in U.S. dollars, allowing for a far more affordable life in Mexico.

RODRIGUEZ: I think there was a sense of we want people to come here to stimulate the economy -- thank you for being here. But I know that recently there's been kind of complaints from locals about the effect that ex-pats living here has had on their own lifestyles.

CULVER (voice-over): Sandra Ortiz (PH) is one of them.

SANDRA ORTIZ, MEXICO CITY RESIDENT: (Speaking foreign language).

CULVER (on camera): The prices are going up high. She said it's difficult because a lot of these foreigners come and they have a bunch of money to be able to spend on some of these apartments and rents.

CULVER (voice-over): For more than 50 years, Ortiz and her four siblings ran a restaurant popular with locals on a prime corner in the increasingly desirable Roma neighborhood. But as prices climbed, Ortiz says it became unaffordable for the family. And in February, she says they were evicted -- all their belongings piled onto the sidewalk.

CULVER (on camera): You had five minutes to get everything out and move it out of the business.

ORTIZ: Si.

CULVER (voice-over): So where do the locals go? "That's what we need to be asking ourselves," Fernando Bustos Gorozpe tells me. The pandemic, coupled with global inflation, have made matters worse, leaving locals in fear of a culture clash.

FERNANDO BUSTOS GOROZPE, PROFESSOR, ANAHUAC UNIVERSITY, MEXICO CITY: (Speaking foreign language).

CULVER (voice-over): "This is part of the problem," he says. "The ex- pats move here because it's cheap, not because they want to truly immerse in the local culture."

Families like the Ortizes feel they're getting pushed out. Sandra and two of her siblings now working at another restaurant, no longer the owners. The thought of visiting their old restaurant --

ORTIZ: (Speaking foreign language).

CULVER (voice-over): -- too painful.

We went by. Renovations already underway. High-end apartments coming soon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER: And for folks who see this report and say oh, perhaps that's where I'll take my work from home, it does seem, John and Brianna, that there's an unofficial and rather quiet crackdown that's underway on the part of the Mexican government. We're hearing from some U.S. travelers who are saying as soon they arrive in Mexico they're now being told you've got, in some cases, as little as 10 days to stay, and then you've got to get out.

Now, officially, the Mexican government says they have not changed their policy, but it does seem they're trying to go in between this really delicate balance of enforcement and at the same time, not trying to dissuade U.S. tourism -- which, by the way, this year is on track to surpass pre-pandemic levels and from U.S. tourists alone, bring in more than $20 billion.

BERMAN: 2022 problems.

David Culver, fascinating to see. Great to have you, my friend. Thank you.

CULVER: Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: NEW DAY continues right now.

Highly classified materials. Highly sensitive details about witnesses. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar, and that is what the Justice Department says it is trying to protect after the FBI seized boxes of documents from Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home.

That position from the DOJ comes in a court filing opposing the release of the affidavit that lays out the case for searching Mar-a- Lago. That filing says, quote, "If disclosed, the affidavit would serve as a roadmap to the government's ongoing investigation, providing specific details about its direction and likely course, in a manner that is highly likely to compromise future investigative steps."

KEILAR: Lawmakers from both parties and media companies, including CNN, are pushing to see some of the information. Former President Trump is calling for the immediate release of the completely unredacted affidavit. And new reporting this morning from The Wall Street Journal that Attorney General Merrick Garland deliberated for weeks before approving the warrant application for the Mar-a-Lago search.

BERMAN: Joining me now is former Trump national security adviser John Bolton. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us. This is our first chance to talk to you since a lot of this new information has come out.

There are Trump insiders who say there was a standing order to declassify information that the president took from the Oval Office. You were national security adviser for, what, 17 months. What was your knowledge of any standing order?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: There was no standing order. I was not brief on anything like that when I started as national security adviser. I never heard of it, never saw it in operation, and never knew anything about it. The president never said anything to me during 17 months there.

[08:00:00]