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Ukrainian Army Struggles to Maintain Equipment Amid Attacks; State Attorney Suspended by DeSantis Over Abortion to Appeal; How the Center Can Take Back Power from the Extremes. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 17, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:53]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning after a mostly quiet summer North Korea fired cruise missiles into the waters off its west coast. That's according to South Korea's Defense Ministry. This is the first time Pyongyang has fired any cruise missiles since January. The launch comes as joint military drills between South Korea and the United States are set to begin next week. That is a source of irritation for North Korea. U.S. intelligence agencies have also warned the North appears to be preparing for a nuclear test which would be its first in five years.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: So turning now to Russia's nearly six- month-long war in Ukraine. Ukrainian military officials say close battles against Russian forces continue in the east this morning with Moscow focusing its offensive in the Donetsk region and toward the city of Kharkiv. The ongoing war has left the Ukrainian army in desperate need of supplies and equipment repairs to continue to fight against the Russians.

Joining us now from Kyiv is retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman. He is the former director of European affairs for the National Security Council. And retired U.S. Army Brigadier General Steven Anderson. They have both traveled to Ukraine to help the armed forces there.

Thank you to both of you for being with us. We're used to seeing you here, stateside obviously, but I know, Alex, you've been talking a lot online just about how the war is going. How do you see it going right now?

LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN, FORMER EUROPEAN AFFAIRS DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: First, it's hard really to describe what Russia is doing as an offensive at this point. They are almost entirely stalled out with really just tiny gains in one small sector of the country around the city of Bakhmut, that your listeners are now becoming familiar with.

In other places, they're under great pressure, around Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia in the south, and around Mykolaiv and Kherson. But at the same time the Ukrainians aren't really able to press to much of an advantage. The Ukrainians have taken some significant amount of punishment. We talk in the U.S. military about company grade officers, lieutenants and captains. Those are the ones that execute tactical operations, they've taken enormous losses there.

And without some breathing room, without some additional support, without more long range systems and strike capabilities, they're just not going to be able to make huge amounts of headway. As brilliantly as they fought, as valiantly as they fought, they just need more help and Russia is not in the least bit interested or has shown any indications that they are softening their aspirations for grabbing up the entire territory as bad as they're doing.

KEILAR: And I see you nodding there, General. You are -- your expertise is in logistics. You both have been meeting with political and military leaders. What are you learning on that front?

BRIG. GEN. STEVEN ANDERSON (RET.), U.S. ARMY: We're learning that they need a lot of help, Brianna. They've got some -- we've given -- the United States and NATO have given them lots of complex equipment but they're having difficulty maintaining them. And one of our concerns is that we're handing the keys to this equipment and we're walking away, we're not providing the logistics, specifically the maintenance training, the repair parts that they are going to need.

Again, complex equipment, hard to maintain. Right now there's tremendous distances involved. And they're unfortunately evacuating their equipment all the way to Poland. I mean, if your car broke down in Washington, Brianna, you wouldn't take it to Chicago to get serviced and that's essentially what they're doing.

The other issues of course that are coming up is winter is almost upon us here now. A couple of months. And of course that brings a whole new set of logistics challenges. And then finally, I would say that if they want to conduct offensive operations they are going to have to stockpile logistics far forward, they're going to have to dramatically increase and improve their logistics capability if they're going to be successful in essentially getting the Russians all the way out of Ukraine and hopefully Crimea soon thereafter.

KEILAR: Are they interested in hearing this? I mean, when you're discussing things with them, are they taking this counsel?

ANDERSON: I think so. They're very interested in helping us. They know that they need help. United States and our logistics power is a profound element of our national power and they recognize the work that we did in Iraq and Afghanistan in very austere conditions, very difficult conditions, and weather and sand and dust and the like.

[07:35:08]

And we were very successful in maintaining a lot of complex equipment over there. We want to do the same thing over here. So we want to push support forward. We want to get -- see logistics being pushed into Ukraine, and give them the capability, the training, the repair parts and whatnot that they need and then watch -- let them take it over. You know, let them, you know, leverage their incredible tenacity, their incredible intelligence.

I mean, these are incredibly committed people. They will win this fight, but we need to make sure that U.S. and NATO provides the logistics that they need to support this fight.

VINDMAN: Right. And Brianna, it should be noted that they know what they need. They know that this is a gap. The question is, what can we do to help push those logistics forward, to push those repair facilities and training facilities forward. Right now everything is being conducted outside the country. There is a hard policy that nothing really -- no kind of Western support occur inside the country. That's starting to ease up a little bit. There are -- we're starting to see some more U.S. personnel arrive, but really what they need is a large logistic base like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan, manned not by U.S. troops so there would be no change in policy there, but by contractors, Western contractors, that know how to operate this equipment and help train the Ukrainians to take this over.

This doesn't have to be something that goes on for years and years. The Ukrainians can pick this up quite quickly. And that's all we're doing, is we're offering some advice on how to help them move in that direction.

KEILAR: Alex, we've seen this happening now for six months. What do you see the end point of this war as?

VINDMAN: Sure. So I think at this point being on the ground here, one of the things I'm discovering is I may have had a bit of a rosy picture about how much the Ukrainians can do with regards to reversing those territorial gains by the Russians. They have the will, they are getting increasingly better proficient with Western equipment, they have the strategy, strategic brilliance, but what they've lost is they've lost an enormous amount of lieutenants and captains.

They need breathing room and the U.S. and the West could help them achieve some of that breathing room with more systems, more long-range fires so not just the HIMARS that have the limited range, up to 80 kilometers, but the systems that allow them to get to about 300 kilometers, unmanned aerial vehicles. The Russians are acquiring those now from Iran. We should be prepared to support the Ukrainians with similar kind of capabilities and start thinking about this as a much, much longer war. Six months or a year, start preparing them to potentially receive Western aircraft, these F-16s and F-15s, things of that nature should now be part of the conversation fulsomely.

Congress is interested, the administration is probably moving on this issue too slowly. My advice is to look around the corner, look at how this is going to get only harder, more complex, more threats to nuclear power plants, more threats to other critical infrastructure. Start thinking about this and the dangers that emerge over the long run.

KEILAR: Gentlemen, I thank you so much for being with us. Alex, I know that you've been there, you actually spoke the first time I think as a country we -- most of us ever heard from you, you talked about emigrating from Ukraine. We didn't really have time to talk about that today because I know you're there to talk about how the war is going and what you think the Ukrainians need but we'll check in with you about that when you get back. I know that this has also been a personally touching trip for you as well. Colonel, General, thank you so much.

Rudy Giuliani is expected to appear before a special purpose grand jury in Atlanta this morning as he's named a target in Georgia's election interference investigation.

BERMAN: And a Florida state attorney now fighting for his job after being suspended for his stance on abortion. He joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:43:07]

BERMAN: This morning the state attorney suspended by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis over abortion plans to file a motion challenging that suspension. DeSantis removed Andrew Warren earlier this month for pledging not to prosecute crimes related to abortion and gender transition treatments for children. DeSantis who seems to be weighing a 2024 presidential run accused Warren of neglect of duty and incompetence. Warren, a twice elected Democrat, calls his ouster an abuse of power to overturn a free and fair election.

Joining me now is the Hillsborough County state attorney suspended by DeSantis, Andrew Warren.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us. What action are you taking this morning?

ANDREW WARREN, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY STATE ATTORNEY, SUSPENDED BY DESANTIS: Well, the governor has violated two laws. One, he's retaliated against me for speaking out against him in violation of my First Amendment rights, and he's abused the power that he has under the Florida constitution to suspend an elected official. So we're fighting back to make sure that even though Ron DeSantis is governor, the First Amendment still has meaning, the Florida constitution still has meaning and elections still have meaning.

BERMAN: You're filing a motion in court, federal court, on what grounds exactly?

WARREN: Well, there are two grounds, one is a First Amendment claim because he's violating my First Amendment rights, and the First Amendment applies to everybody. That's the beauty of it. That's why they put it up front in the Constitution, too. The second claim is called quo warranto, it's basically just to have the court admit and show that what he's done abuses his authority under the Florida constitution. He can't just suspend an election. He can't just throw out people's votes because he disagrees with something that I've said.

BERMAN: On the first point, you say free speech. What this is over is a pledge that you signed and he would argue a promise that you made not to prosecute people who violate abortion laws in Florida.

[07:45:07]

You signed a pledge with other prosecutors that says, quote, "We decline to use our office's resources to criminalize reproductive health decisions and commit to exercise our well-settled discretion and refrain from prosecuting those who seek."

So you're saying that speech, but he's saying you're telling people you are not going to do your job.

WARREN: Well, let's be clear. First of all, that's a value statement that I signed on to, talking about that I believe that criminalizing health care decisions between women and their doctors is not something that we should be criminalizing. Second, that law, the 15-week abortion ban that was passed by the Florida legislature has been held unconstitutional. So when I became state attorney I put my hand on the bible and I swore to uphold both the U.S. and the state constitutions, and that's what I'm doing.

So I can't enforce an unconstitutional law and no case has come before me yet. This isn't about anything that I've done. This is about what I've said.

BERMAN: If a case comes before you that violates a law that is deemed constitutional on abortion, will you prosecute it?

WARREN: Well, we'd look at it the same way we look at every single one of the 50,000 to 60,000 cases that come to my office every year. We look at the law and we look at the facts and then we make a decision on that case based on case-specific information.

BERMAN: If the 15-week ban ultimately is deemed constitutional based on the Florida state constitution, again, if someone violates that, would you prosecute?

WARREN: I mean, again, you're asking questions in a hypothetical.

BERMAN: Yes.

WARREN: I said we have to evaluate the merits of each case. I'll tell you that even under current law, right, the 15-week ban is unconstitutional, but going back to the Roe standard in Florida of 24 weeks, there's a difference between someone who has an abortion at 24 weeks and there's a question as to whether it was 23 weeks and six days or 24 weeks and one day versus someone who has a back alley abortion at 35 weeks.

So that's why we say we have to look at the facts of every specific case. You can't just say I'm always going to or never going to in situations. That's not how prosecuting works.

BERMAN: As a legal question, it's interesting. Are you saying that he would have the right to suspend you or remove you from your office if ultimately you did make that decision not to prosecute?

WARREN: No, not at all. I mean, the Florida constitution sets very limited parameters under which a governor can suspend an elected official. What's happening here is he's trying to overturn a free and fair election. He's trying to throw out the votes of hundreds of thousands of Floridians and he's trying to substitute his judgment for that of the voters who elected me.

I mean, even my 8-year-old understands this. This is how democracy works. The people get to elect their elected leaders and the people elected me because they trust my judgment, they share my vision and they've seen the success that we've had in keeping Hillsborough County one of the safest counties in the state of Florida.

BERMAN: To be clear, you were elected twice in Hillsborough County. The voters twice elected you. Now whatever happens in court, this can also go to the Florida state Senate. Do you think that the Florida state Senate would uphold your appeal to them?

WARREN: Well, the Florida state Senate has a role to play, but only in a situation where the governor's suspension is within the law. Here the governor's suspension is clearly outside the law so we don't expect it ever to get to the Senate.

BERMAN: All right, Andrew Warren, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Appreciate it.

WARREN: Thank you very much for having me.

BERMAN: Outrage this morning after Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas made comparisons to the holocaust while in Berlin.

KEILAR: And more on Wyoming and Alaska's primaries ahead, the takeaways and what is next for ousted Congresswoman Liz Cheney when our special live coverage continues.

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[07:53:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TREVOR NOAH, LATE-NIGHT HOST: The NBA has announced that for the first time ever they will not be playing any games on election day, and instead will encourage their fans to go and vote.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

NOAH: Yes. I think that's really good. I will say, not to sound cynical, but if the Timberwolves game is what was keeping you from voting, maybe --

(LAUGHTER)

NOAH: Yes. I think since there is no games on that night, the ESPN commentators, they should cover voting like they cover the NBA. I just want to make it super interesting. It'd be like, Jeremy Wilkins coming up to the voting booth now. It's his first season voting. He's -- oh, no, he colored outside the bubble. That's going to -- that's not going to scan. The refs are not going to like it at all. Let's see the replay on that one, John.

(APPLAUSE) NOAH: So this is big. The NBA, and they told all the teams, they've said, hey, all the teams in the NBA, you will not be playing basketball on election day. The Knicks were like, oh, no problem, we don't play basketball every day. That's just what we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It's funny because it's true.

KEILAR: That's mean.

BERMAN: It's funny because it's true.

KEILAR: Ouch.

BERMAN: I didn't see that coming. But I like it.

KEILAR: I didn't either. I want Westminster Dog Show coverage of voting. That would be great.

BERMAN: Yes, don't get me started.

KEILAR: We do have the NBA head of social responsibility on ahead to talk about obviously that very important topic, no games on election day.

So perhaps the chief critic of former President Trump in Congress, Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney, has conceded defeat in her primary against election denier Harriet Hageman. Cheney is the latest Republican to lose in a hyper partisan primary season for speaking out against Trump's election lies.

John Avlon here with our "Reality Check."

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: So how exactly did Trump's election lies become the GOP litmus test? Well, look no further than the low turnout partisan primaries because it forces power to the extremes, often elevating the most play to the base candidates and punishing principled independents. That in turn floods our political system with hyper partisan cowards and pranks.

[07:55:03]

Just take a look at the fates of the 10 House GOP members who had the spine to stand up to Donald Trump's election lies by voting for his impeachment. Well, their political hides are being paraded as a cautionary tale among conservatives, to cow others into silence. But this was not the definitive verdict it might seem on the surface. See, four of them declined to run for re-election, largely because they faced tough races amid the rigged system of redistricting.

Of the remaining six, two survived their primaries, California David Valadao and Washington state's Dan Newhouse, and not for nothing, they both won in top two open primaries where independents as well as Democrats and Republicans can vote. So that election reform helped create a more representative result.

Now, it's true, Newhouse's Washington state colleague Jamie Herrara Hutler narrowly missed the top two in her re-election bid, ultimately losing by just over a thousand votes to a Trump-backed candidate, but in a district where the Democrat came first. Over in the swing state of Michigan, Representative Peter Meijer fell by less than 4,000 votes behind is conspiracy theory spouting opponent who was shamefully boosted by Democrats in the final week because he was seen as easier to beat in the general election.

Then, of course, back in June, South Carolina Republican Tom Rice fell to a Trump-backed candidate with less than a quarter turnout compared to a general election, even in that conservative district. And finally, there is Liz Cheney last night, going down to defeat against election denier Harriet Hageman.

Now in previous years, this constitutional conservative won with more than 77 percent of the vote, but her decision to tell the truth about Trump was apparently a disqualifier for a majority of GOP primary voters.

Now it's safe to say that any of these six would have been a stronger candidate in a general election where turnouts typically is far higher than in a primary and where independent voters can participate in the process. Keep in mind, there are in fact eight states right now where independent voters make up the largest share of registered voters. But professional partisans don't want more competitive and representative elections.

They want low turnout primaries and safe seats without competitive general elections because in that environment, there is no such thing as too extreme. Even apparently trying to overturn an election. This is what is known as the primary problem America faces. Consider this, in 2020, just 10 percent of eligible voters effectively determined 83 percent of House seats. That's according to the group United America.

So what could be done about all this? Well, in the case of principled Republican dissidents, those candidates might be better off running as independents where state laws allow. Yes, it is a daring and courageous path, but there is a clear demand. Anew Pew Research study shows the highest unfavorable view of both parties in decades. I know it sounds a little crazy to a two-party hive mind, but we have seen success here before.

The most iconic example came in Alaska in 2010, when Tea Party insurgent Joe Miller narrowly beat incumbent Senator Lisa Murkowski in the GOP primary but she went on to win as a write-in candidate. On the other side of the aisle, centrist Connecticut senator Joe Lieberman lost a 2006 Democratic primary to the more liberal Nell Lamont and then prevailed to win the general election as an independent.

More recently, Buffalo Mayor Brian Brown launched a successful write- in campaign after losing to his Democratic primary to a socialist. And in all these cases, party activists howled, but the people ultimately got their say in a higher turnout general election. And that's how it should be. Lest we forget the parties are not supposed to be the purpose of our politics. Now this year we're seeing independent candidate Evan McMullen run against Republican incumbent Senator Mike Lee in Utah as well, a state where a conservative not beholden to Trump has a far better chance of winning than a sacrificial Democrat.

Look, it's impossible to know how many more Republicans might have had the courage to stand up to Trump if they'd known their political fate would be decided by all the voters in their district. Rather than a handful of hard core partisans. But that could make all the difference.

And that's your "Reality Check." Special NEW DAY coverage continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): This primary election is over. But now the real work begins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Liz Cheney losing her House seat in a landslide, but she says it was worth it.

I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar, and Cheney's defeat was by a near historic margin in a primary, more than 2 to 1. This is a clear affirmation that Donald Trump has a vice grip on the core of the Republican Party. Now, Cheney who is the vice chair of the January 6th Committee, made it clear she will continue her mission to keep Trump from ever returning to office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: Two years ago I won this primary with 73 percent of the vote. I could easily have done the same again. The path was clear. But it would have required that I go along with President Trump's lie about the 2020 election. It would have required that I enable his ongoing efforts to unravel our democratic system, and attack the foundations of our republic.