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Tom Nichols is Interviewed about Political Violence; Todd Jacobson is Interviewed about the NBA and Election Day; Giuliani Arrives for Testimony; July Retail Sales Released; U.S. Forces New Water Cuts. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 17, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

TOM NICHOLS, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": You know, the kind of confrontation of the 1860s. This is people lashing out in anger based on what they see falling down internet rabbit holes, that they believe in conspiracy theories, you know, things that verge on science fiction. But these aren't really political causes so much as they are fairy tales and fantasies.

And so there is this kind of outrage of the day that shifts, depending on whatever passes in front of their eyes, on a television screen or on a computer screen or on their phones. And there's no real coherence to it. One day it's, you know, pizza-gate. The next day it's Venezuelan voting machines. This is political violence stirred by neolism (ph) and fantasies.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And you say when they're talking about liberty and freedom, when they're using those words, they're actually code words for personal grudges, you say, for racial and class resentments in a generalized paranoia that dark forces are manipulating their lives, which I think is just such -- I think it's just exactly correct, as you're describing what's happening. But what's most alarming, I think, about what you write is that you say, what makes a situation worse is that there is no remedy for it.

NICHOLS: Right. The problem is that when people are driven by an internal sense of resentment, by irrational fears, by a kind of itching sense of inferiority that really has more to do with them than anything happening in the world at any given moment, you can't really placate that. You can't negotiate with it. You can't fix it. You can't pass policies or laws that would make it better.

You know, if you think about what happened between 2016 and 2020, for example, when Donald Trump's supporters and MAGA world won everything, they won the White House, they had a majority in Congress, and it didn't get better. They remained as angry as they always were. And, in fact, by the end of those four years it was worse because winning elections or marching or attacking the Capitol, none of it kind of fills the emptiness inside and gives meaning to their lives in the way that they hope it will. So, I think, for the rest of us, it's really limited about what any of us can do to mollify that or to - or to placate it or to put a stop to it. BERMAN: Tom Nichols, we really appreciate you being with us. Everyone

should go read this piece. It may not make you happy, but it will make you think. So, be well.

NICHOLS: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, just in, CNN speaks with Rudy Giuliani as he enters the courthouse for his testimony before a grand jury investigating election interference. We'll hear what he told us.

KEILAR: And the NBA making a big change to its schedule on Election Day. We're going to tell you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:37:07]

KEILAR: The NBA doesn't want its fans in the stands on Election Day, it wants them at the polls. The league choosing not to hold any games on November 8th, saying in a statement that it wants to focus on promoting non-partisan civic engagement and encouraging fans to make a plan to vote during midterm elections.

Joining us now is Todd Jacobson. He is in charge of social responsibility for the NBA globally as well.

Tell us about the decision to do this. How did this come to be?

TODD JACOBSON, HEAD OF SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, NBA: Well, we're continuing to build on our momentum here. I mean we're committed to a sustainable approach to civic engagement. I think this was the next step coming off record-setting people going to the polls in 2020. We used a lot of our facilities to make sure people can vote health and in a safe manner. And this was the next logical step for us to continue to make sure we can boost participation, encourage engagement and raise awareness about building a plan to vote, registering and volunteering and, more importantly, getting out and making sure you're part of the process.

KEILAR: What's the role of players in this?

JACOBSON: Well, players, like everyone else, we're all citizens. We all want to use our voice. At the baseline, voting is about participating in the system. And it's so important. And I think we all want to make sure we're doing that. And that's what this is about, participation, making sure we get out there. And there's a lot of ways we can do it.

I think we're focused, you know, on no games on Election Day, but we're going to be doing work leading up to all season long, encouraging register to vote, you know, early voting windows are important, getting volunteers to the polls to make sure that it can be done in an effective and safe manner, and, more importantly, voting on Election Day.

So, you know, there's a lot we're going to be doing here and we're excited to be a part of it.

KEILAR: Did any of this have to do with just the activism that we've seen from players. And, look, this is about non-partisan engagement. A lot of players have made it very clear where they stand on issues. We saw that following the death of George Floyd. Did any of this have to do with seeing their engagement?

JACOBSON: I think for sure you see players, you see our employees, you see everybody in society getting more engaged. We saw that during the pandemic. And I think this is not about policy but this is about participation. And I think for us we saw our platform as a way to really get out the word. We're here talking about it today, making sure that as we get into election season that people are making a plan to do that, are getting early to the polls, are volunteering. All those things are so important in being part of the system.

So, for us, this is about participation. And I think we saw that. We saw us, as we were coming together during the restart around Orlando, that we wanted to do more here, we wanted to work as an NBA family, to see how we can engage and really lift up voices.

KEILAR: Todd, part of your job, you're in charge of government affairs. That also means liaising with the White House and the State Department and sort of fostering those relationships. Have you heard anything new about them when it comes to negotiations on the release of Brittney Griner, and what is the role of the NBA in this?

JACOBSON: We haven't. And I think it's really important that we allow the government to step forward and do the things that they're doing. We've worked behind the scenes with them to make sure that we're doing what we can to support those efforts and we're going to continue to do so.

[08:40:06]

KEILAR: You're careful about -- you're careful about it, I will say. Noted.

So, in terms of civic engagement, though, is there - is there a different in - a difference in the league's eyes between, say, a Steph Curry, who speaks out about Brittney Griner, who decides he's going to use his voice for that, talks about her wrongful detention, and an Enes Kanter speaking out about - about China's human rights violations considering how much business is done with China?

JACOBSON: I think it's important. Like, our values about our quality, respect and freedom of expression. And we really believe everybody should have a voice to be able to share their thoughts and feelings. And I think that's what's most important for us. And so this platform is about that, right, at its very core. When you come back to it, voting is how you share your voice. And it's really important to do so. And we want to be support and empower those to do that. And that includes members of our NBA family.

KEILAR: Todd, we appreciate you being here as we look, as you do, towards Election Day. And I guess you'll get sort of - sort of a day off, a little bit, right?

JACOBSON: No, it's a day to go out and vote. Thank you so much for having me.

KEILAR: All right, thank you.

BERMAN: All right, just moments ago, Rudy Giuliani spoke with CNN as he entered the courthouse for his testimony before a grand jury investigating election interference.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Giuliani, when you met with Georgia lawmakers, did you lie to them?

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: We will not talk about this until it's over. It's a grand jury, and grand juries, as I recall, are secret.

VALENCIA: Do you believe President Trump is the ultimate target of this investigation?

GIULIANI: I'm not going to comment on the grand jury investigation.

VALENCIA: What do you think their ultimate goal is here?

GIULIANI: (INAUDIBLE) about it.

VALENCIA: What are you expecting to talk about here today?

GIULIANI: Well, they ask the questions, and we'll see.

VALENCIA: Will you be cooperative? I mean your attorney in New York says he can't promise how responsive you'll be?

GIULIANI: (INAUDIBLE). Good-bye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Mayor Giuliani -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That is Nick Valencia right in the middle of it.

Great questions, Nick. And now Nick Valencia joins us outside the Fulton County Courthouse.

Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, John.

They're questions that we all want answers to, but something that we're going to have to wait to get responses for.

When Rudy Giuliani showed up here just a moment ago, just shortly before 8:30, he was flanked by his attorney from New York, Bob Costello. And as you could see, he was very limited in what he could tell me.

I did ask him point blank if he plans to cooperate with the special purpose grand jury's questions. There was an indication last night that his attorney said he can't guarantee how responsive Rudy Giuliani will be. It was at that point Bob Costello got between Giuliani and I and ushered him up the steps.

There was a bit of a funny moment, since Giuliani got here shortly before 8:30, those doors don't officially open until 8:30, so he was stuck outside being peppered with questions by members of the media who really want answers as to what he's expected to talk about here.

Fani Willis, who's leading this investigation, as we have been reporting, want more details. She wants more details about what Giuliani said before Georgia lawmakers in the wake of the 2020 election as Giuliani spread conspiracy theories and baseless claims about election fraud. He's expected to get his testimony underway here just in a matter of moments.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Nick Valencia, great work down there. Thanks so much for being with us.

So, this just in, the retail sales report for the month of July. We'll tell you the numbers ahead.

KEILAR: And a big move from the FDA on hearing aids that could save Americans thousands of dollars. We're talking about millions of Americans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:44]

KEILAR: Time now for "5 Things to Know for Your New Day."

Liz Cheney vowing to keep fighting Donald Trump from ever returning to office after losing her Wyoming congressional seat in a landslide in the primary to Harriet Hageman.

KEILAR: North Korea firing two cruise missiles into the waters off its west coast. This comes ahead of joint U.S./South Korea military drills next week and U.S. intel warns the North appears to be preparing for its first nuclear test in nearly five years.

BERMAN: A 12-year-old player in the little league world series is in critical condition after a fall from a bunkbed at the players dorm in Pennsylvania. Easton Oliverson's injuries included a fractured skull, but his father says he is recovering and improving.

KEILAR: And the FDA says over the counter hearing aids will be available by October for millions who suffer mild or moderate hearing loss, eliminating doctors and prescriptions from the process. That will actually translate into thousands of dollars in savings. It's a move that may prompt manufacturers to make lower cost devices.

BERMAN: American Airlines putting down a deposit to purchase 20 supersonic jets. The carrier declined to share the financial terms of the deal. Boom Supersonic says it is developing a jet that will be able to carry up to 80 passengers at nearly twice the speed of sound.

KEILAR: And those are "5 Things to Know for Your New Day." We have more on these stories all day on CNN and cnn.com. And don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning. Just go to cnn.com/5things. You can also find it wherever you get your podcasts.

BERMAN: All right, just in, the July retail sales report.

CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans here with the numbers.

Romans.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, guys.

Another piece of the puzzle on the economy. Retail sales in July did not grow from June. They were essentially flat here. And the reason, gasoline prices fell pretty sharply in the month, so that's reflected in this number. You didn't see retail sales grow because gas prices were falling.

This gave some relief to American families, quite frankly, who could then use the savings from gas prices to buy other things. When you look at a trend, 0.8 percent in June, that was revised down a little bit.

Overall, year over year, 10.3 percent retail sales growth. And when I dig into these numbers, you can also see that when you strip out auto sales, which fell in the month, you actually have a core rate of 0.4 percent. That sounds like a lot of numbers but that's actually a good sign above the overall strength of the American consumer, the resilience of the American consumer.

[08:50:06]

So, a flat, flat retail sales number for the month. But I think a lot of this has to do with those falling gasoline prices, which were, of course, very good news for consumers. We've heard from Walmart. We've heard from Target. We've heard from Lowe's and Home Depot. And from - at least from Home Depot and Walmart, you're hearing them talk about how people are making changes. Walmart pointing out that people are not buying as much beef and deli meat and they're switching to hot dogs and canned tuna and other things that cost less. So, you're seeing Americans make smart choices with their money because inflation has been biting for so many months now, you guys.

BERMAN: Continuing a trend of, as you put it, some less lousy news.

ROMANS: Less lousy.

BERMAN: OK-ish news. Christine Romans, thank you very much.

So, just announced, historic water cuts in the western United States to address the devastating drought. How this crisis could soon affect all Americans.

KEILAR: And Liz Cheney is out, and Sarah Palin is awaiting her electoral fate. More coverage of these key primary election races ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:21]

KEILAR: New this morning, historic mandatory water cuts are being implemented to address the extraordinary drought in the western United States as the Colorado River sinks to near crisis levels.

CNN chief climate correspondent Bill Weir has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting. That's supposed Mark Twain quote has been a western slogan since the first settlers. But now the worst drought in 1,200 years has water managers in seven states, 30 tribal nations, and Mexico fighting over every precious drop.

CAMILE TOUTON, BUREAU OF RECLAMATION COMMISSIONER: But to date, the states collectively have not identified and adopted specific actions of sufficient magnitude that would stabilize the system.

WEIR: That was the commissioner in charge of dams and reservoirs, admitting that upper and lower basin states have failed to agree on ways to cut their water use by up to 25 percent.

PAT MULROY, FORMER COMMISSIONER, SOUTHERN NEVADA WATER AUTHORITY: I think ultimately the states are going to realize they're playing Russian roulette. And they're going to have to come to their senses.

WEIR: For almost 30 years, Pat Mulroy was in charge of southern Nevada's water, and led an aggressive conservation campaign to tear up lawns, re-use waste water and scold water wasters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can't water in the middle of the day, ma'am, you'll be fined if you don't change your watering clock.

WEIR: All measures she'd like to see happen downstream.

MULROY: I think they're kind of kicking the can down the road past the election, if you want me to be very frank about it. I don't think anybody wants to make great public announcements about measures they may have to take prior to the election.

WEIR: Rather than the forced new action, the feds will let the states keep talking while the next round of automatic cuts will lower water delivery by 7 percent to Mexico, 8 percent to Nevada, and 21 percent to Arizona.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can hear this crunching. It's just starting to dry up.

WEIR: Here, alfalfa farmers are already being paid to let their fields go fallow, while some are switching to crops like wyuli (ph), a rubber plant that grows in the desert.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crop switching. Looking at lower water use crops like wyuli is one of the solutions we need to be looking at in a dryer future to allow communities to sustain themselves.

WEIR: Thanks to some creative water accounting, California will not face mandatory cuts next year, but their governor is already warning of a future with a lot more people and a lot less water.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Science and the data leads us to now understand that we will lose 10 percent of our water supply by 2040. If all things are equal, we will lose an additional 10 percent of our supply by 2040.

MULROY: We have the very real possibility this coming year, if we have another lousy winter, all things being equal, that we will drive this lake down to elevation 1,000. That is 100 feet above dead pool. And you're at the bottom of the martini glass. So, it doesn't take much to tip that over and get to the point where nothing can go downstream. And if you don't take it seriously now, if you think that you're going to avoid this, do a rain dance, go pray, do whatever, that we have a great winter, you're insane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR: Pat Mulroy says really the only way to refill Lake Mead is to pay ranchers and farmers downstream not to take their share of the water. The imperial irrigation district in California is the big daddy at this negotiating table. They have the rights to over 3 million gallon feet. If they don't want to cut back, it could end up in court. And she says if that were to happen, I would just hold the water back and let it play out because at least I'll have the water.

But just a little hint of what's happening, John and Brianna, when she was in charge here in Vegas, they saw this day coming. So they spent $1.5 billion putting a third straw into the deepest reaches of Lake Mead because they wanted to get all the water out of here. There's even talk now they may be looking at that engineering feat up at Lake Powell.

KEILAR: Wow, really interesting. And there's also, of course, Bill, billions in this Biden bill for climate. Where is that money going?

WEIR: Well, some of it will go to pay those ranchers to let their fields go fallow, those farmers. It might go to pay homeowners to rip up their lawns and -- or pay for water meters like in Utah. They're putting in millions of water meters because they found if the consumer knows how much they're wasting, they'll cut back as well. But it also could go into a huge infrastructure projects, patching

dams, maybe infrastructure that could catch these winter atmospheric river storms in California in the winter, catch all of that water as it dumps down too fast at once and then pump it into the aquifer, which is being released.

[09:00:08]

A lot of ideas out there, but they take time and a lot of money. In the meantime, all you can do is conserve every precious drop.

KEILAR: Yes. And they take a lot of willingness as well.

Bill Weir, fantastic report, thank you so much for sharing that with us.

And CNN's coverage continues right now.