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New Day

CNN Reports, Trump and Allies Concerned About Potential Indictment; Biden Aims to Energize Democrats with Fiery Message; Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Plant Still Disconnected from Ukraine Power Grid. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired August 26, 2022 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Could be a potential issue.

[07:00:01]

And he said one of the main factors is you could either double down on the bad actors and then accidentally sweep up a number of good actors, or say, you know what, the price of accidentally sweeping up good actors is too high to really push down on bad actors, and it's a tough spot to be in.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A really fascinating three-hour interview. Omar, thanks for joining us.

And New Day continues right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A Friday that could shake up perceptions of the Mar-a-Lago search and the U.S. economy, and on top of that, a speech from fired up president. I'm John Berman, Brianna is off, CNN Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins here on this busy Friday.

COLLINS: We've got a lot going -- a lot of deadlines on Friday, not our kind of deadlines, deadlines for the Justice Department, for Trump's legal team, a lot going on.

BERMAN: The deadline is noon, but it could happen before then. The Justice Department has been ordered by a federal judge to release a redacted version of the affidavit used to justify the FBI's search of Mar-a-Lago, again, by noon today. It could come out earlier. The affidavit lays out why investigators believe there was probable cause that crimes had been committed.

COLLINS: And in his order that came out yesterday very quickly, Judge Bruce Reinhart said the Justice Department had made a good argument for why portions of this document that are behind the Mar-a-Lago search should remain shielded, saying, quote, disclosure would reveal the identities of witnesses, law enforcement agents, uncharged parties, maybe the investigation's strategy, direction, scope, sources, methods and grand jury information.

The judge agreeing with the Justice Department's requested cuts as we are learning new details about what's happening inside Trump's legal team and the advice that he is getting from a prominent conservative activist. Sources also tell CNN that privately the former president and some of his allies are concerned about the legal fallout when it comes to this case.

CNN's Gabby Orr joins us with that new reporting. Gabby, what are you learning this morning about what is happening inside Trump's circle as they are waiting for their own deadlines that they have to meet today and also waiting to see what is and what is not redacted from this affidavit?

GABBY ORR, CNN REPORTER: Well, good morning, Kaitlan and John. We are learning that the former president, while he's been publicly claiming that this has been very helpful for him politically, that this FBI search had led to a surge in enthusiasm among Republicans and he's never been better positioned for a 2024 campaign, that privately he is singing a different tune.

He has been asking advisers if they think that he is going to be indicted and our sources tell us that there's really this anxiety that's taken over Trump's inner circle, primarily because he is no longer president and he doesn't have the legal protections that are typically afforded to the executive office. One source was telling us that this is -- this feels different, this feels like he is in more peril, that this is a more dangerous sort of legal jeopardy than he has faced before.

And so as the former president publicly projects confidence, he continues to claim politically that this entire situation has been advantageous to him, that is not what we're hearing happening behind the scenes.

BERMAN: And you've got some reporting that Trump has been getting outside legal advice from conservative activist Tom Fitton, and that in some corners of Trump world this isn't going over well. What have you learned?

ORR: Yes. So, Tom Fitton became involved earlier this year shortly after that initial trove of 15 boxes was given back to the National Archives from Mar-a-Lago. And at that point, Tom Fitton started calling the former president and saying, hey, look, you shouldn't have given those boxes back and, in fact, if the National Archives comes knocking again, do not give them any more material.

Fitton believes that the former president has full authority over any documents or mementos that he might have brought with him from the White House to Mar-a-Lago at the end of his presidency and he had started to sort of convince the former president of that thinking as well.

One adviser told me that it was, quote, downhill once Tom Fitton got involved because Trump's willingness to cooperate with the National Archives, really, it took -- it sort of broke down after Fitton became involved.

And it's not just Fitton, John, who has been creating anxiety inside Trump's orbit, his legal team right now is really not seen as the most competent circle of folks who are surrounding him. He has Christina Bobb, who is a former One America News anchor and previously worked with Rudy Giuliani to try and overturn the 2020 election results. He has Lindsey Hall again, whose primary background is in insurance litigation, Alina Habba, who has worked on parking garage litigation in New Jersey. Really, the only person whose advisers feel is up to this task is Jim Trusty, a former Justice Department prosecutor and U.S. attorney who only recently became involved in helping the former president navigate this legal web.

[07:05:10]

BERMAN: Gabby Orr, thank you so much for sharing all of your new reporting.

Joining me now is the former attorney general of the United States, serving in the George W. Bush administration, Alberto Gonzales, also a White House counsel, now at Belmont University. Thank you so much for being with us this morning.

This unredacted or partially redacted affidavit will be released by noon today, explaining the justification for the search of Mar-a-Lago. What do you expect to see in this?

ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I don't expect to see anything that some of your previous guests have already discussed and that is I don't expect to see any grand jury information, any information that might identify a witness or informant, I don't expect to see anything that may in any way compromise the investigation, the thinking of the Department of Justice going forward.

And so I think what we're going to see are probably information that is already public, quite frankly. And I've been very curious about Merrick Garland's involvement in the redactions as a typical mechanics with respect to an affidavit. This is something that the attorney general does not get involved with. I suspect he's had meetings with his senior team, the deputy attorney general, probably head of the criminal division, the lawyers who are actually prosecuting this case, have an explanation of the categories of information that they believe that they can release.

And so, you know, I don't know whether or not he has looked at every item line by line, but I suspect he's had some conversations, have a clear understanding that there should not be anything here that is released that falls within the three categories that I just described, but to be sure that any information that is public should go ahead and not be redacted. So, I'm very curious about his involvement with respect to what's going to be released today.

BERMAN: That's interesting that you focus on that. Normally, you say an attorney general wouldn't be involved in something as procedural as crossing stuff out in an affidavit, but so important in this case that you think he might want to have an eyeball on it?

GONZALES: Well, if not an eyeball, certainly conversations. I would ask direct questions to the prosecutor, the deputy attorney general, the head of the criminal division, you know, is there anything here, you know, that we are redacting that's already public? And if so, why are we redacting it? And I would ask direct questions as to whether or not, okay, is there anything here that's going to compromise the investigation, anything that bothers you? If we're getting close to that, then perhaps we should go ahead and not release that information.

So, that's the kind of conversation that I would have had and I would expect General Garland is having with his team. He may eyeball the actual document or not, I don't know, but I think, at a minimum, he would have those kind of conversations.

BERMAN: You know, I was reminded that when you were attorney general that there was the search of Democratic Congressman William Jefferson, his home, and I believe his congressional office. And this was something that was deemed unusual. So, you have overseen or have been involved in investigations that were controversial during your time. What did you learn and how do you think to this point Merrick Garland has handled trying to walk this line?

GONZALES: Well, you're right. What was controversial was the fact that we conducted a search on Capitol Hill. That had never been done before. And I was advised by my senior team, by the deputy attorney general, by the head of office of legal counsel, by our solicitor general, by the FBI director that this was necessary and lawful.

In the end the search, was thrown out by the D.C. Circuit. So, the lesson there is sometimes you get it wrong despite all the advice, despite your best judgment. The search was thrown out because of the speech and debate clause, the fact that even though we had a team that came in and looked at the information, nonetheless, it was a member of the executive branch having eyes on information that was privileged because it was a work of Congress. That's not the situation here, of course, because President Trump is a member of the executive branch, but the lesson is, despite the care, despite the advice you may get sometimes, you know, the courts disagree.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about the defense that has been put on, not the nitty-gritty necessarily of what Trump and his legal team have done but sort of the theme and the bravado they are projecting.

Andrew McCarthy, who is a conservative former prosecutor and wrote a column for the National Review, and he said that if you're trying not to get indicted, the best defense is usually not a good offense and it's never an offense that backfires.

[07:10:00]

That's what Andrew McCarthy said after the Trump team has seemed to lean into releasing things as part of this timeline explaining what happened over time that in some cases some people think incriminated them.

GONZALES: Well, I think that the criticism or the questioning of some of the actions of the Trump legal team I think is warranted, a bit surprising. And I'd like to put that in contrast to the way I think the Department of Justice has conducted this whole operation in terms of going to the federal judge, laying out the case in this affidavit as to why the probable cause exists, submitting the affidavit with the appropriate redactions, I think in each and every instance in connection with the -- with the search. And I think going forward with the prosecution and this investigation, you're going to see a department that's going to be very, very careful, very deliberate and their actions will be done in a very professional manner. So, I think you've got a very, you know, interesting contrast here between the two sides.

BERMAN: Alberto Gonzales, always great to have you on, thank you for being with us.

GONZALES: Thanks, John.

COLLINS: Let's bring in former CIA Officer David Priess, he is also the publisher of Lawfare, a blog on national security issues, and the author of The President's Book of Secrets, the Untold Story of Intelligence Briefings to America's Presidents, which obviously makes you qualified to join us on this subject.

I want to ask you, though, about something that Trump is hearing from this prominent conservative activist basically making the argument that what he took to Mar-a-Lago is inherently personal, and so he has the right to take it but that's not true, is it?

DAVID PRIESS, FORMER CIA OFFICER: We don't know what all the material is. We have that list that came out after the search and the seizure. That shows that it is decidedly not all personal papers, right? A president can take after a presidency personal notes, comments on their family or something could be truly personal. That's why the archivists work with the White House during the transition to make sure that they determine what is a presidential record, what is an official government document, versus what is truly personal, like a little note to your son or something like that.

That's not what we're talking about here because that clearly does not include confidential, secret, top secret, TSSCI documents. So, I would not be taking that legal advice if I were the former president.

COLLINS: Yes. And the top secret ones that you just mentioned there, some of them are ones that should only be viewed in secure government facilities.

PRIESS: Right.

COLLINS: I wonder, there has been a wealth of reporting on Trump's skepticism of the intelligence community. He always has been skeptical. I know you are someone who used to do the daily brief for senior officials in administrations. How do you think that has played a role in how all of this has transpired?

PRIESS: It does tear apart a possible defense, which is that he's just so interested in reading these documents and being immersed in them that he somehow forgot that these were government property, because there's no history during his presidency of him reading the material in that much depth. Now, that's not the main defense they're putting forward but it is something to keep in mind.

There is no reason that he should have these documents. They've tried reason after reason and nothing really sticks because there is no true defense to that. In terms of his background in intelligence and his interest in intelligence, it would be odd if suddenly now as a former president he is more interested than he was when he was commander-in- chief. It would be disappointing from a national security point of view certainly but also would be out of character for him. So, I think we have to look for other reasons why he's holding on to these.

COLLINS: Also he got a lot of his presidential daily briefing that every president gets. He got it orally a lot of the time. He wasn't given huge stacks of documents to read through. Every president has a different taste on that, I think. And also President Biden limited his access to those briefings, he cut him off from it because he said he was worried about him revealing sensitive information.

What about this idea that if you have a security clearance, you are read in on the protocols of what that security clearance are and when you depart that job, you're read out on it?

PRIESS: That would be true for me, and it was. That would be true for you. That's not true for the president or the vice president because they are constitutional officers. They are elected by a process in the U.S. Constitution. They are commander-in-chief and the vice president essentially deputy commander-in-chief. That is something that you can't put a security clearance on top of as a condition to do the job because the Constitution lays out the conditions to hold that job.

So, there is no formal read-in of the president in terms of getting a security clearance. You don't get that ticket punched. That also means when you leave office, there is not necessarily a reading out of classified programs the way there was for me when I had to sign document after document saying --

COLLINS: Saying you are not going to take this stuff with you.

PRIESS: I don't have access to it, I can't talk about it, if I remember things, those things are still classified. I still need to protect that until the day I die.

Now, we want to elect presidents who do that too, but that's on the voters.

[07:15:01]

That's not on a security document because there is no document holding them to that. We hope that the president's advisers on the way out the door talk to them about it, and I heard a report yesterday that John Kelly said, yes, the people around the president really should have had that debriefing with him before he left office. That's something they should have done, but there is no formal process to do it. You just trust the character of the person holding the office.

COLLINS: And given he wasn't read out -- you know, the reason that's important is it put a role in Petraeus, for example, right?

PRIESS: David Petraeus who, as CIA director, was actually sharing some classified information, not just possessing it outside of proper space but actually disseminating the information, which made it a huge issue.

In this case we don't know. The affidavit, once finally opened, may tell us that. I doubt the redactions will allow us that much insight today to know whether there was a concern about dissemination or actual dissemination that led to the search and seizure.

COLLINS: Yes, of course. So, a big question looming over this is that surveillance footage that they got outside the room.

David, thank you for joining us on this really, really interesting to see this as we are waiting any moment now to see part of this affidavit, and we will see what they see.

PRIESS: I will be watching.

COLLINS: Thank you.

BERMAN: President Biden returning to the campaign trail with a fiery speech at the Democratic National Committee in Maryland, touting his administration's accomplishments and attacking what he calls MAGA Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: The MAGA Republicans don't just threaten our personal rights and economic security, they are a threat to our very democracy. They refuse to accept the will of the people. They embrace -- embrace political violence. They don't believe in democracy. This is why in this moment, those of you who love this country, Democrats, independents, mainstream Republicans, we must be stronger, more determined and more committed to saving America than the MAGA Republicans are at destroying America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now is Brad Woodhouse, Senior Adviser for the Democratic National Committee and former Communications Director of the DNC. Brad, great to see you. I haven't seen you in a long time.

You were there. What did you see in that room?

BRAD WOODHOUSE, SENIOR ADVISER, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Hey, John, good to see you. I was there. I was there. Oh, man, look, John, you know, I am a political hack of longstanding, so, you know, I don't go to a political speech or hear a political speech or attend a political rally and I'm easily impressed but that room was electric. And I have to say it was one of the most commanding -- one of the best speeches, political speeches, I have had heard from President Biden, at least since the convention in 2020. Of course, this had a really electric crowd. He laid out a great -- a great contrast. And I have got to say I was exhausted after it was over with because it was kind of like -- it wasn't as long, as you know, but it was kind of like being at a Bruce Springsteen concert. I mean, people were rocking that gymnasium, he was rocking that gymnasium, he was sharp, he was on fire and he was fired up. And this, John, what we saw last night, that was a president in command of his party, in command of his party's campaign for the midterms.

BERMAN: He talked about the former president in ways that he doesn't do often, and he used language talking about MAGA Republicans. And then in a closed door session with donors, he said, what we're seeing now is the beginning or the death knell of an extreme MAGA philosophy, it's not just Trump, it's the entire philosophy that it underpins the -- I'm going to say something, it's like semi-fascism. And he's talking about the MAGA philosophy there and there are some people who have looked at this and, said, well, this is like when Hillary Clinton used the deplorables line here.

What's the risk for you and Joe Biden using this language?

WOODHOUSE: Well, look, John, if it walks like a duck, if it talks like a duck, it's normally a duck. I mean, we really do see a movement across the country among MAGA Republicans to, first of all, deny the outcome of the last election. I mean, many of them are still -- including the former defeated president -- are still fighting the outcome of the last election. We saw step by step by step what he tried to do to overturn the rightful decision of the voters in 2020.

Now, we have people running who are pledging that in their offices that they take, whether the secretary of state or attorney general or governor, that they are going to determine the outcome of elections regardless of the votes. I mean, so, look, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck. And so I don't think there's a lot of risk there because the American people have seen this. They've seen this through the January 6th hearings, you know, they've seen it in the conduct of the former president.

BERMAN: You're okay with the phrase semi-fascist?

WOODHOUSE: Well, look, I'm not even -- you know, look, I'm not smart enough to really know what that means, but the point here is that we have what he said later, which was we have a lot of Republicans, the MAGA set of Republicans, that aren't interested in democracy.

[07:20:02]

They only believe that an election is legitimate if the vote count comes out their way. And if it doesn't come out their way, they don't believe it's legitimate. Put whatever term you have on it, but they're anti-democratic, they don't believe that when Democrats win the vote, that the votes are legitimate.

BERMAN: Let me play a little bit more of the president from last night when he is talking about the Democratic agenda. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: We'll codify Roe v. Wade. We'll ban assault weapons. We'll protect social security and Medicare. We'll pass universal pre-K. We will restore the child care tax credit. We will protect voting rights, we will pass election reform and make sure no one, no one ever has the opportunity to steal an election again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Do you think that Democrats across the country running in these midterms will embrace the Biden agenda? Are they going to run with Joe Biden or do you think they're going to try to run sort of like kids we talk about parallel play, well, President Biden is over here but we're not really talking about him?

WOODHOUSE: Well, look, there's no doubt in my mind that they're going to run on this agenda. This is the agenda of the Democratic Party, this is the agenda that got President Biden a record 81 million votes in 2020, it gave us the House, it gave us -- gave us the Senate. It's the agenda the American people want.

And, look, the president -- the most important thing he did last night was he laid a roadmap out for how to talk about this, for how to talk about these accomplishments, for how to talk about the record job growth, to talk about the growth in the economy, to talk about the Inflation Reduction Act. And he laid out a roadmap for how to talk about the other side. So, whether or not you want to invite President Biden into your -- into your state or your district, I tell you after last night, I think you would be crazy not to. At least he laid a roadmap out that every single -- every single candidate can give that speech in their district or in their state. There is no doubt in my mind.

BERMAN: Brad Woodhouse, great to see you, thank you for coming in this morning.

WOODHOUSE: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: So, we are awaiting the release of the FBI affidavit used to justify the search of Mar-a-Lago. What is the Trump team thinking this morning? We are going to speak to one of his former impeachment attorneys ahead.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant has now been disconnected from the power grid. CNN live on the ground in Ukraine.

COLLINS: It also a critical Friday for the U.S. economy. We got a key inflation report that's about to be released as markets are also bracing for a big and closely watched speech from Fed Chair Jay Powell. We will bring you the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00]

BERMAN: So, this morning, a dangerous situation in Ukraine as the Russian-held Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant remains disconnected from the country's power grid. You can see where it is right here in the southern part of the country. The Ukrainian president, Zelenskyy, says it is only because of backup electricity that they were able to avoid a radiation disaster.

CNN's Sam Kiley joins you now live from Dnipro, in Ukraine. And as we said, this is a tense, tenuous situation, Sam.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is. It's a very dangerous situation and there are two kind of scenarios, if you like, for the doomsday Chernobyl option, which would be a meltdown in one of the reactors. The first is what is very deep concern at the moment to civilian and military authorities indeed, which is that, briefly yesterday, on two occasions, the connection between the power grid and the nuclear power station, which cools the reactors, was severed. That's been restored, but what has not been restored is the movement of electricity from the nuclear power station back into the Ukrainian grid. That appears to have been disconnected.

So, it's not an immediate danger but there is another immediate danger and that comes from the military situation. Take a look.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KILEY (voice over): A fireman tests for radioactive fallout. It's an essential ritual repeated several times a day. It's safe for now, but the war and the shelling that puts this city on the frontline of a potential nuclear disaster continues.

The pattern over the last month has been that this city has been hit mostly at night, but in the last week, the locals are telling us there's been regular attacks during the daytime, more or less at exactly this time of day, around about 3:00.

While communications are reestablished, an officer explains where the shelling is coming from, pointing to three locations close to a Ukrainian nuclear power station captured by Russia in March. And now, Ukraine's top nuclear official is raising fears that Russian trucks, which have been parked inside the plant's turbine hole could be laden with explosives or cause an accidental fire.

PETRO KOTIN, PRESIDENT, ENERGOATOM: If that happens then there will be a major fire in the turbine hole. And after that it can actually impact the reactor building.

KILEY: Essentially, are you saying that that risks a meltdown of the reactor?

KOTIN: Yes, could be, because, you know, you cannot stop this fire if it goes.

KILEY: There's been a renewed exodus of civilians living under Russian occupation in the towns close to Europe's biggest nuclear power plant. Safely in Ukrainian-held Zaporizhzhia, they consistently told CNN that Russian troops were bombarding locations close to the plant, shelling that Russia blames on Ukraine. The internet is switched off before it starts, probably so that nobody can film it. But we already know that if the internet is down, we should expect Russian shelling in half an hour.

Amid international demands that Russia leave the nuclear power plant and demilitarize the area, the Russian shelling from the power station has increased.

[07:30:02]

This is the result of one of 70 artillery and rocket strikes here in the last 24 hours.