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Artemis Missions Will Return U.S. to Moon for First Time in 50 Years; U.S. Intel Conducting Damage Assessment of Trump Documents; GOP Gov. Chris Sununu (R-NH) Says, Biden Should Apologize for Semi-Fascism Remark. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired August 29, 2022 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: This Artemis program is aiming to land humans on the unexplored lunar south pole in the next few years and ultimately serve as a way to get to Mars.

Let's get right to the Kennedy Space Center. CNN's Business Innovation and Space Correspondent Rachel Crane is there with the very latest.

Okay. So, what is the very latest here, Rachel, because this seems a bit up in the air.

RACHEL CRANE, CNN BUSINESS INNOVATION AND SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's looking a little dubious right now, John and Brianna. The teams have worked several technical issues over the last few hours, they also have been dealing with some weather delays, potential lightning strikes delayed the propellant loading about 45 minutes, but then they've noticed a hydrogen leak as they were going through the pre launch checks.

Also now, they are dealing with two issues in parallel. They have identified a potential crack in the intertank flange, they've noticed that as a result of frost. So, that could just be frost, it could be the result of a crack. So, the teams are looking into that, but also an engine issue, engine number 3 on the core stage. The core stage is that orange, huge middle part of the rocket that you see. One of the four engines is not performing as expected right now.

And as you pointed out, there is a two-hour launch window but all of these delays have added up so it's unclear right now if the teams will be able to troubleshoot these issues but also if they would be able -- if they are able to troubleshoot these issues if they will be able to make up that time and make up -- make this launch window today. But if they are not able to make this launch window, there is another potential launch date of September 2nd, also a backup to the backup of September 5th.

But I just want to remind our viewers that this is a test launch here, and that rocket behind me has never flown. So, there have been several issues that NASA has dealt with over the years in terms of, you know, getting this rocket to the pad at all, but also with the rehearsals leading up to today's launch. They tried three times to have a successful wet dress rehearsal, as they call it, where they run through all of the paces up until just a few seconds before launch and three of them were dubbed failures, the last one was dubbed a success but they didn't even get to the intended nine-second mark. They only made it 29 seconds into that count down. So, as I pointed out it's looking dubious right now.

And I also want to highlight to our viewers that the launch we are about to see today, this is going to be -- or hopefully see today, I should say, this is going to be the most powerful rocket that NASA has ever made. But, of course, we're used to seeing launches now from the Kennedy Space Center, again, with crew on board SpaceX's Falcon 9.

Now, that rocket just goes to the ISS, which is about 250 miles above the Earth, but this rocket behind me, it's intended to go about 280,000 miles to the moon and then will go beyond it by 40,000 miles.

So, this is an incredibly ambitious mission and all to kick off NASA's Artemis program, which, as you pointed out, Brianna, is intended to land the first woman and the first person of color on the moon in 2025. But, of course, that all is, you know -- hinges on today and a successful launch today, as I pointed out, if today's launch is not a go, there are some backup windows. But everybody here at the Kennedy Space Center, we are still crossing our fingers hoping for a launch, but, you know, jury is out on that one.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Rachel, keep your fingers crossed down there and please keep us posted with all the latest developments.

In the meantime, joining me is Brian Greene, professor of physics at Columbia University. Professor, great to see you.

Just first your reaction to what we're seeing and what appears to be happening.

BRIAN GREENE, PROFESSOR OF PHYSICS, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Look, it's not particularly surprising. This is an incredibly sophisticated complex piece of technology, so many thousands of parts have to work in exactly the right way for the choreography to unfold, and so, yes, there are going to be problems en route to what I suspect and everybody has their fingers crossed will be an ultimate success.

BERMAN: This is a rouge rocket.

GREENE: Yes.

BERMAN: A very power of rocket, the most powerful thing in the United States has launched in 50 years.

GREENE: Yes, absolutely. This is a 34-storey-high rocket that's going to punch over 8 million pounds of thrust when the engines ultimately turn on. Yes, it's the most powerful rocket that we have ever launched and it's the opening step in going back to space.

BERMAN: Okay. Why? Why go to the moon? I'm old enough to remember when Barack Obama, I think it was, what, 2010, said we've been there already. GREENE: Yes. Well, we have been there already, but when we went before, it was motivated by politics, right? We wanted to beat the Soviet Union to the moon. That's what it was all about.

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Now, it's motivated by vision. We are a species of explorers and what we want to do is starting to go to other worlds. So, the moon is a great testing ground for understanding how humans can live in space, how humans can survive in these harsh environments, ultimately a stepping stone to Mars and then beyond.

BERMAN: Why is the moon a good testing ground? What can we get out of the moon?

GREENE: Well, we can learn how we can live in environments that are not hospitable to human presence. We need to learn how to build space stations. We need to have base stations where we can actually mine fuel from the local environment so that we can take the next step further onward.

BERMAN: There is a difference between what we're seeing today and what we've seen the last few months and years. This is NASA, right? This is a big NASA project with congressionally approved funds, $4 billion per launch here. I mean, how realistic is this type of program going forward?

GREENE: Well, look, we always have to make choices about where to place our resources. And if you consider the big picture, we as a people have always reached outward and we want to go to the stars. And so, yes, is it worth it? I would say it's absolutely worth it. We have to have the wherewithal to put the resources behind it.

BERMAN: And what you're looking at, again, it's on the launch pad, you can actually see those boosters are left over from the shuttle program.

GREENE: Yes.

BERMAN: The engines themselves underneath left over from the shuttle program. There's technology being reused here even as they're trying to do something they haven't done.

GREENE: Yes, absolutely. The innards of this technology are largely new and incredibly complex, but, sure, we've made use of things we've learned over the past 50 years and that's the beautiful thing that science builds hierarchally (ph) on things that we've done in the past.

BERMAN: All right. I know you will be watching this all morning, as will we. Hopefully, they will figure out what the problems are and will get it going, if not today then very soon. Professor, always great to see you. Thanks so much for coming here.

GREENE: A pleasure, thank you.

BERMAN: Special coverage of the launch window, even if delayed, begins at 8:00 A.M. Eastern Time.

KEILAR: All right, some new reporting from CNN this morning, two senior U.S. officials telling CNN that Ukrainian forces have begun shaping operations in Southern Ukraine to prepare for a significant counteroffensive against Russia.

Joining us now is CNN Anchor and Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto, who broke this story. Jim, tell us about this. What would this counteroffensive look like?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Okay. So, shaping operations are standard first step before starting major offensive -- offenses. In effect, you strike command and control, you strike weapons positions, air defenses, et cetera, to prepare the battlefield for operations. And I'm told that the U.S. believes this will be a significant counteroffensive, at least that's the Ukrainian. It will involve air and ground operations coordinated.

It has been long anticipated, you and I have discussed this many times, when might Ukrainians attempt to strike back and gain back territory already lost to the Russians. But the U.S. belief is now it has begun. The shaping operations have begun. And, by the way, the U.S. -- our team in Ukraine reached out to a spokesperson for Ukrainian -- the Ukrainian military this morning who acknowledged that, yes, these operations are under way.

As far as locations are concerned for operational security, understandably, Ukrainians are not sharing exactly where the main push will be but we do know there has been a lot of action in the south, Kherson was an area mentioned frequently, it's considered very important, crucial particularly for the control of the Ukrainian coastline.

BERMAN: Why now? Because as you said, this counteroffensive has been discussed and there have been hints it was going to start for months.

SCIUTTO: That's right, a combination of things. One, Ukrainians believe they have the ability to do so, that they have the forces, they have the weapon systems, we have spoken a lot on this broadcast and others about the importance of these long distance rocket systems, the HIMARS that the U.S. has been supplying them for a number of weeks. There's also a bit of a seasonal aspect here that if you're going to conduct an offensive, you want to do it before the cold winter months, so your window being between middle of August and middle of October.

But there is also a judgment that Russian forces are on their back foot, to some degree, in the south, that there is an opportunity for Ukrainians to use the advantages they have and advance on areas that Russia has controlled for a number of weeks.

Now, there's no guarantee of that. We've seen a long slog in the east, right, where offensive has been met by offensive and another offensive and, really, they've reached a sort of frozen conflict there. So, there's no guarantee this is successful, but the assessment from the Ukrainian side is that they have an opportunity here. KEILAR: If it is successful, what is the expectation of what they could achieve, Jim?

SCIUTTO: Well, the intention at least is to gain back territory that has been controlled by Russia for some time. Not all of it, but some of it.

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To this point it's been defense to some degree and also pushing, for instance, in the early stages of the war, Russia back from the capital city, Kyiv, which Ukrainian forces did successfully, right, and pushed them off to the east. So, now, the hope at least of Ukrainian officials and commanders, and you've heard this in public statements from the Ukrainian president, zelenskyy, saying, you know, we're not giving up this territory, we're going to make Ukraine whole again.

Now, some parts of the country that's more possible than others. I mean, Crimea, for instance, has a significant Russian military presence for a number of years now.

BERMAN: I mean, the Russians, unfortunately, do have a say in this, Jim. I mean, I can't imagine the Russians will take this sitting down. What's their current force posture?

SCIUTTO: Well, their current force posture is an attempt at least from the very top, and we reported on this over the weekend and last week from President Putin to add more than 100,000 troops to the Russian military basically to dig in for the long haul here, right? There are no indications, and I spoke to John Kirby yesterday morning on the air, and he said the U.S. has seen no indications that Russia is backing down or intends to go to the negotiating table. So, I think we should prepare ourselves for significant counteroffensive, but certainly no indication that Russia will lay down.

KEILAR: Jim, great reporting. Thank you for sharing it with us this morning. We will be seeing you at 9:00.

In the meantime, Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines has sent a letter to the House Intelligence and House Oversight Committee chairs, saying the intelligence community is conducting a damage assessment of the documents that were taken from Mar-a-Lago. Those documents include 67 marked confidential, 92 marked secret and 25 marked top secret.

Joining us now is former acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security Mary McCord. Mary, thank you so much for being here to talk about this. Can you tell us a little bit about what this damage assessment is going to be looking for and how significant this is?

MARY MCCORD, FORMER ACTING ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: Sure. So, the damage assessment will involve all of the intelligence agencies reviewing what has been retrieved from Mar-a- Lago to determine how sensitive are these documents, what are these about, how dangerous would it be to national security if they fell in the hands of those who are not authorized to have them. They will also be looking at do we have confidential human sources who are in danger right now. Do we have intelligence collection methods that are in danger because they may be revealed to those foreign adversaries and others who should not know about them, which could mean we would into he had to change some of our intelligence collection practices.

So, wholly apart from the criminal investigation, the national security implications of what was found at Mar-a-Lago are very significant.

KEILAR: We saw this affidavit, the precursor to the search warrant released heavily redacted but still what did you learn from it? What stood out to you?

MCCORD: So, a couple of things. One, the investigation is very much ongoing, right? You don't do a search warrant first but you also don't do it last, right? So, everything in those redacted portions, that's the good stuff. That's where the Department of Justice is putting forward the facts it has already obtained through witness interviews and other investigative techniques that establish probable cause that evidence of these three crimes will be found at Mar-a-Lago. And the other thing I think that's been -- and it also talks about concerns and the reason for the redaction is because of concerns that this would be a roadmap for someone who would seek to obstruct.

KEILAR: You also found it interesting, I know, what it said about that argument we've heard from some Trump allies that the president had either a standing order to declassify or even just the ability to declassify whatever he took out.

MCCORD: Right. So, there are two paragraphs. One references a letter from Trump's attorney to the Department of Justice pointing out that the president has plenary authority under the Constitution in his view to declassify information. That letter never says anything about a standing order, never says anything about all of the information stored at Mar-a-Lago is declassified.

The next paragraph, though, that is unredacted in the affidavit cites to Kash Patel, a former high-level aide to Trump who gave an interview saying Trump had, in fact, declassified all of this information. So, what's significant to me about that is this argument that you keep hearing by Trump and his surrogates, it was presented to the court and the court still signed that warrant.

KEILAR: How concerned are you about the potential threat to confidential sources of information, to assets or to operatives?

MCCORD: So, the reason -- right now, we don't know of this being transmitted to any adversaries, we don't know of it being -- anyone having access to it in Mar-a-Lago but that's what's concerning. Mar-a- Lago is a place that is open to visitors, including foreign guests. I think this is why the Department of Justice asked for the surveillance video to see within Mar-a-Lago who might have been accessing these various storage rooms. And we know that materials were stored sort of all over the premises, not just in a storage room.

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So, I don't know yet how concerned to be because I don't -- I don't know who may have had access to it.

KEILAR: I do want to ask you about something that Lindsey Graham said. Senator Lindsey Graham said that there would be rioting. He's raising the specter that there could be violence if there are criminal charges against Trump. He may be right, but I wonder what you think about him choosing to highlight that in a conservative media space.

MCCORD: I think it is incredibly irresponsible for an elected official to basically make sort of veiled threats of violence just if law enforcement and the Department of Justice and a grand jury does their job. And, you know, this is part of the same kind of game plan that Trump has had for years, the wink, wink, nod, nod. People are angry, they may be violent. And then what he knows and what Lindsey Graham also knows, who is himself in the hot seat in the investigation of Georgia, is that people listen to that and people actually mobilize and do things.

January 6 was the result of this same kind of tactic by President Trump and his -- and his allies. It's irresponsible, it's dangerous, it's a threat to our democracy and I think he should be ashamed of himself.

KEILAR: You see that as a veiled threat, as giving permission to people to proceed like that?

MCCORD: I see it as essentially saying a threat to justice, justice -- if you do -- if you do, you know, seek an indictment and a grand jury returns an indictment, there's going to be violence. So, you know what you need to do to avoid that.

KEILAR: Mary McCord, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

MCCORD: You're welcome.

KEILAR: Coming up, President Biden referring to some Republicans as semi-fascist. Now, one prominent Republican governor is demanding an apology.

Plus, a mid-air brawl, two pilots suspended for fighting in the cockpit after takeoff.

BERMAN: And we will sit down with the father of a Duke volleyball player who was called a racial slur during a match at Brigham Young.

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BERMAN: Republican Governor Chris Sununu is calling on President Biden to apologize for using a term last week, this was in a closed door setting, with donors where he said that some of the supporters of Donald Trump, not all Republicans, but some of the donors -- supporters of Donald Trump, he said, engaged in something akin to what he called a sort of semi-fascism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you see semi-fascism in your party at all?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): Horribly insulting. I mean, the fact that the president would go out and just insult half of America, because, effectively, half of America votes Republican, half of America ultimately votes Democrat, it swings a little bit one way or the other, but effectively call half of America semi-fascist because he's trying to stir up controversy, he's trying to stir up this anti- Republican sentiment right before the election, it's horribly inappropriate, it's insulting and people should be insulted by it and he should apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Here now, one half of that discussion, CNN Chief Political Correspondent and State of the Union co-Anchor Dana Bash.

He was ready for that. He was ready, I think, to comment on President Biden's comments last week. What did you make of that?

BASH: And you just heard me begin to ask a follow-up, which is that you didn't see any -- you don't see any element of your party that could be described as semi-fascist? And he said, well, of course, there are white supremacists, there are fascists, there are all kinds of people, but he then went back to the notion that he felt that President Biden was painting all of the party that way, which, to be fair, again, we weren't in that meeting, we weren't in the fundraiser, but the way it read was that Biden was specifically talking about Trump supporters.

But I agree with you that he was ready. I wasn't sure how Governor Sununu was going to answer that because he's been incredibly critical of Donald Trump on a number of issues, on a number of actions or inactions over the years, and this one he felt that he wanted to kind of lay down on. He is on the ballot, he is up for reelection in New Hampshire and Donald Trump is pretty popular among Republicans in New Hampshire. So, that, there's no question, played into the calculus of how the governor responded.

KEILAR: You also talked to Tim Ryan, who is running for the Senate in Ohio about the college debt relief plan of the Biden administration. Here is what he told you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): There are a lot of people hurting in our society right now, people are getting crushed with inflation, crushed with gas prices, food prices and all the rest. And I think a targeted approach right now really does send the wrong message. There is a lot of people out there making $30,000, $40,000 a year that didn't go to college and they need help as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Put that up against what Elizabeth Warren told you, Dana, where she's praising the college debt relief plan. I thought it was fascinating to see these two sides of the coin for Democrats here.

BASH: So fascinating. Brianna, I think that this particular race in Ohio is one of the most potentially illustrative of where the Democratic Party is and where it could be going. And it's because nobody really thought that Tim Ryan in Ohio, an increasingly red state, yes, they have Sherrod Brown but he is kind of a brand name in Ohio, that he would be doing as well as he is in the polls right now. He's fundraising. He's extremely competitive.

And what he made clear to me, not just in that answer but more broadly in the interview, is that he believes that he's competitive because he is speaking to working class voters in a way that Democrats haven't been able to for a very long time. And he's trying to sort of -- yes, he is in the middle of the country, he is not on the coast, but try to pull the national Democratic discussion back to that. And he's taking an approach, yes, that fits his state but is quite different than a lot of what we're hearing on the national level from Democrats.

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BERMAN: Brianna mentioned your discussion with Elizabeth Warren as well. And, again, Elizabeth Warren was actually supportive of what President Biden did with student loans. Said it didn't go far enough but she was very supportive of what he did so far. Not supportive at all with very pointed words toward the Fed Chair Jerome Powell. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): There is nothing in raising the interest rates, nothing in Jerome Powell's tool bag that deals directly with those, and he has admitted as much in congressional hearings when I've asked him about it. Do you know what's worse than high prices and a strong economy? It's high prices and millions of people out of work. I'm very worried that the Fed is going to tip this economy into a recession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: She talks about this a lot, Dana.

BASH: She does. She referenced what Jerome Powell said at the end of last week about potential pain. And she said do you know who feels the pain, people who are now working and able to be employed, it might not be if the economy does dip into a full-fledged recession.

Now, context here is that she has been critical of Jerome Powell sort of from the jump. She did not vote to confirm him for another term at the Fed. She thinks not just on the issue of how he's dealing with the interest rates and the economy right now, it's how he deals with issues about the bank and transparency and things like that. But she has been very, very concerned about the way that the Fed is trying to ride this economy and she doesn't think that they're doing it appropriately. And, again, more context, she is not just a senator from Massachusetts, she is somebody who has a history in academia on these issues.

KEILAR: The indication that we're getting from the Fed, though, is that they're so worried about inflation, they are maybe not as worried about -- I mean, and I don't mean to put words in the Fed's mouth, but tipping into a bit of a recession with still some strong economic indicators. It's a balance. There's no way to completely say, we're not going to go into a recession. She's saying, no, that's not acceptable.

BASH: Yes. What she was arguing was that by trying -- by raising interest rates, what the Fed is saying is we're trying to do that to avoid a recession. She says, by raising interest rates, you could be causing a recession. And never mind recession. I mean, just look at what the market did at the end of last week in response to his comments. It reacted in a very negative way.

Look, this -- none of this is easy and this, I think, is what you were alluding to, Bri, that the whole point of what the Fed tries to do is to try to, again, like sort of ride the economic wave, they can potentially raise interest rates and if things do turn south can potentially lower them. But the other aspect of this that nobody is talk being is that we have a huge national debt, we have, you know, a lot of dysfunction in Congress in a way that they could legislate to help to address the economic ills and woes in a way that there just isn't the will to do it because there's so much division.

BERMAN: Yes. And they can get some things done. We've seen that.

BASH: They did do a lot on some issues, but this particular big issue of the debt and the deficit is not on the table right now.

BERMAN: Dana Bash, it was a great show yesterday.

BASH: Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: Thanks for sharing it. It's like the greatest hits. It's like Dana Bash greatest hits, which is one of my favorite albums of all time, almost as good as the Steve Miller band. Thank you very much.

BASH: Thanks.

BERMAN: Ahead, the father of a Duke volleyball player who was called a racial slur during a match at Brigham Young.

KEILAR: Here is a live look at the Kennedy Space Center. So, look, there are a lot of issues this morning that may actual be putting this Artemis 1 launch at risk for now. We have an update that we're going to give to you here in just a moment.

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