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NASA May Possibly Delay Launch of Artemis 1 Rocket to Orbit Moon; Plans for NASA to Eventually Land on Moon and Then Mars Examined. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 29, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the Artemis generation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This launch is years in the making. Billions of dollars have been poured into this program.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our sights are now set on the moon. Our sights are set clearly on Mars.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a big thunderstorm that ripped through the Kennedy Space Center and lightning actually struck the launchpad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bottom line is we look really good. No issues, no concerns, no constraints from the lightning events at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can feel the excitement, the energy increase, and it's really, really palpable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next human boots are going to be a woman and a person of color on the moon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A whole new world of discoveries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: NASA's historic return to the moon in serious jeopardy this morning. Welcome to our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. I'm Brianna Keilar with John Berman, and this is a NEW DAY special report. This hour the window opens for Artemis 1's historic trip around the moon. And right now, what you're seeing are live images from the Kennedy Space Center where the uncrewed Artemis 1 mission is scheduled to lift off between 8:33 and 10:33 a.m. But here's the thing, there are technical issues right now. A hydrogen leak and potentially an engine problem threatening this morning's launch.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The plan is for Artemis 1 to eventually fly around the moon with three mannequins, including one nicknamed "Commander Moonikin Campos." It is using the most powerful rockets in Saturn five that took astronauts to the moon, or Apollo 17, I think that's what you're looking at pictures of right here, nearly 50 years ago. The Artemis program aims to land humans on the unexplored lunar south pole of the moon in the next few years and ultimately serve as a way to get to Mars. Let's get the very latest on where things stand right now at the Kennedy Space Center. CNN's Kristin Fisher is there. Kristin, what can you tell us?

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, guys, I think it's important to remember that this is only a test flight. It is the very first time that this Artemis rocket, the SLS rocket and the Orion crew capsule on top, has ever flown. So we knew that there was a very good chance that they were going to run into issues today, knew there was a very good chance that it may not launch today. And it looks very likely that we will not see a launch today.

And I'm going to explain why. It has not officially been scrubbed yet, by any means, but it's not looking good, and here's why. We have seen four big issues that NASA has been trouble shooting. Three of them have been solved. First, there were lightning issues. Then there was that hydrogen leak during fueling. They resolved that. There was another problem with what they thought was a crack in the inter-tank of the main core booster, the main core rocket. It turned out that was not an issue.

So now we're left with just one problem, and I'm going to show it to you here. This is not a model of the SLS rocket. This is a model of the space shuttle. But it's really relevant to what we're going to be watching today, because the SLS is essentially this configuration without the shuttle. So it looks kind of like this. And where we're running into issues right now is with one of the space shuttle's old engines, down here. One of these RS-25 engines. That's because the SLS rocket is kind of cobbled together from old parts of this space shuttle.

And so one of those engines that was taken from a space shuttle and then put on the bottom of the main core stage, this burnt orange big rocket at the center of the SLS stack, is running into some issues. Essentially, there are 91 engineers trouble shooting this very issue right now. And they're saying that they're just not seeing the temperatures that they want to see.

So, we don't know if this is going to be a delay of just a few minutes, a few hours, or if they're going to have to postpone this to the next launch attempt, which is Friday. The one after that is Monday. Or if this is a really big issue, they could have to roll this thing all the way back to the vertical assembly building. And that would be a very long delay as well.

So, too soon to say, but it's not looking good. But there is still a ton of interest and a ton of excitement here at the Kennedy Space Center because this is the first time that NASA has had a rocket designed to carry humans into space since the space shuttle program retired back in 2011. It's the first time they've had a rocket powerful enough to carry astronauts up to the moon in 50 years. And this one, the SLS rocket behind me, is even more powerful than that Saturn five rocket. So you've got about 100,000 to 200,000 spectators lined up here to see

this thing going. You've also got Vice President Kamala Harris making her way here to the Kennedy Space Center. And her presence here today is really telling, because this is a program, the Artemis program, that was started during the Trump administration.

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And it is one of the very few things that the Biden administration has not only held onto, but fully embraced. So, this is the first time that we have seen a program that has survived a presidential transition to go into deep space with a crewed spacecraft since Apollo. So, a very historic time here, but doesn't look too likely right now that this is going to be the historic day that we were all hoping for, John and Brianna.

BERMAN: The launch window opens in about 28 minutes. That's when it was supposed to open. So Kristin, I expect we will be hearing something official or some hints from down there very shortly. Please keep us posted as to what you learn.

KEILAR: Let's bring in NASA astrophysicist Michelle Thaller and George Mason University Professor and astrophysicist Hakeem Oluseyi. OK, what issues, as you're looking here at these issues that these engineers are facing, what concerns do they have? What are they facing?

MICHELLE THALLER, NASA ASTROPHYSICIST: To me this is sort of part of being in the rocket business, right. Whenever people say that they want to go to a launch, I tell them, it's a wonderful thing to see. It's an amazingly dramatic event to witness. But there usually are some delays. And whether it's weather, or in this case checking one of the engines, they really have to be sure that there's a good chance of this thing being successful. And that's part of being in space.

KEILAR: It's not unusual. It's not unusual for something like this to be scrubbed, right, but when you're hearing, Hakeem, we've heard there's frost on a certain point of the main stage rocket, and correct me if any of my terms are not correct -- I am not an astrophysicist, as I'm sure you're fully aware -- what would that mean?

HAKEEM OLUSEYI, ASTROPHYSICIST: Yes, so what they thought was the engine was actually compromised, right. That would be horrible. There are situations in life -- I went from astrophysics into industry, into Silicon Valley. And I had to learn a lesson. And that lesson is, sometimes in business, a good thing today is better than a perfect thing tomorrow. In the business of space, it better be perfect. You can't do it wrong or else you lost your investment, careers are lost, and in the worst case, of course, lives are lost. So getting it right is worth the delay.

KEILAR: Here the case of a mannequin, because this is unmanned. I think there's three mannequins in this thing. But now the question is, what does the delay require? Does it require them rolling this whole thing back, which is tedious? It was rolled out there very slowly on a mover that goes at 0.08 miles per hour, I think. What would force them to have to do that?

THALLER: You were talking about the possible compromise of an engine, and there's obviously going to checking on that. That's of course, a big hope for us right now is that we can do, if not today, then the two other launch windows, which they mentioned would be September 2nd, and if that one doesn't work, September 5th. And if they have to roll it back, like you said, that is a bigger delay. That's costly. That's disappointing. Again, that's something that we have to accept being in this business. But we're all hoping that's not the case.

KEILAR: But there's time, there is time in this. This is something that is years in the making when it comes to moving towards Artemis 2 and moving towards what this all means, Hakeem. This is about creating, in a way, sort of a practice ground for further space exploration.

OLUSEYI: That's right. So when you're doing big things, you don't do it all in one big chunk, right. You sort of build your way up. So first, they are just going to the moon, showing if this thing can launch. We talked about how it hasn't been launched before, but there was a lot of testing that's done on these rockets. They're laid down horizontally. So I have a good friend and colleague, Dr. Renee Horton, who works at Michoud test facility, so I get to see those videos as all of this is going on. So they do have some heritage. They just haven't flown into space yet. So this is going to be the first time.

Then they're going to fly to the moon with humans, but not land on the moon. And then finally we get to our moon landing. So it's a piecewise thing. You want to make sure everything is done right, there are no technical difficulties, and that's why you do the first mission without actual humans on board, right, because there's a lot of sensor data. There's more than just the launch. There's the ride to the moon, there's going around the moon, and there is re-entry, which is very difficult.

And that going to the moon thing, people think of going to the moon like going to the store. It's not like that. What you're doing is you're creating a different orbit. It's almost like you're going to throw yourself to the moon such that when you reach the height of your toss, you're at the moon's height at that point.

KEILAR: That's right. And using this as a practice for further space exploration, a lot is riding on this. So if you guys could stay with me, Berman, I want to toss it over to you, because here at this point we're looking at 23, 24 minutes until this launch window opens, even as it may be in jeopardy today.

KEILAR: Look, we should hear something official, I would think, very soon.

With me now, Miles O'Brien, CNN aerospace analyst and science correspondent for PBS Newshour, and Michio Kaku professor of theoretical physics at the City University of New York. He is the author of "The God Equation, The Search for a Theory of Everything."

[08:10:03] Miles, just first to you, because you've been listening in with one ear on NASA all morning long. Anything you hear of particular concern this morning?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AEROSPACE ANALYST: Well, rocket science is all about plumbing, John, and you better sweat those pipes pretty tightly. And when they did the wet dress rehearsals, leaks bedeviled this particular launch system, and sure enough this morning, that's what we're looking at. Engine number three there's a hydrogen leak in a flange. Right now it's a no-go situation. The team is working on the problem. We don't have a ton of visibility into what they're doing because they're not sharing the loops or the conversations with the NASA test directors and so forth.

So, we're waiting for NASA to tell us, but we're deep into this hold. And they're already starting late because of the lightning overnight. So there's a two-hour window. We're definitely on the back end of the window, if at all today.

BERMAN: Professor, instead of talking about what's not happening right now, let's talk for a moment about what they hope will happen and why it's important. Why is it important to go back to the moon?

MICHIO KAKU, PROFESSOR OF THEORETICAL PHYSICS, CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK: Well, the cynics would quote from Yogi Berra that this is deja vu all over again. We've been there, we've done that. But, no, this is different because back in the 60s it was, beat the Russians, beat the Russians. That's all it was. Now we're talking about a permanent presence in outer space, a permanent moon base, a permanent satellite going around the moon, and on to Mars.

So, we're talking about a second era, a second era in space exploration where the mantra is no longer, beat the Russians. The mantra is, permanent presence in outer space. Think about that. At any given time, there will be humans on the moon, humans on Mars.

BERMAN: What does the Artemis mission -- and it isn't supposed to just be one launch today but a series of other things, what does it need to prove?

KAKU: It has to prove that all the working parts can function properly for a mission this complex. Remember, you're sitting on a million gallons of high-octane rocket fuel that could go up like a roman candle with one little spark. And so we have to prove that all the parts can move correctly, all the moving parts can be shown to move correctly, and we can go to the moon, we can go onto Mars without endangering our astronauts.

BERMAN: It's quite a thing, Miles, that we're looking at on the screen here, the SLS rocket with the Orion orbiter. People may look at this and see some familiar things on this, quite literally?

O'BRIEN: Yes. It's kind of a mashup between a shuttle and Saturn 5. What you see at the top is the Orion capsule built by Lockheed Martin. And beneath it -- and that's an all new spacecraft. But beneath it are pieces and parts from the shuttle program and also from the Delta launch program to integrate into this system. So, when Michio talks about this idea of testing the system, these are all been tested. Some of these main engines have flown to space several times before --

BERMAN: There's a close up. We just had a close-up of the engines.

O'BRIEN: Of the engines themselves where we have a problem with number three. So these are used parts, pieces and parts from the shuttle system. It's the integration of all this into a new launch vehicle that we're looking at here. It's new plumbing, new wiring, new communication systems. All these things have to work together, and it has to work perfectly.

BERMAN: Can you explain why we're using old parts? And I don't mean to say that disparagingly here, but people might look and say, we're trying to go to Mars, ultimately, with parts from the shuttle?

O'BRIEN: It was supposed to be faster, better, and cheaper. It hasn't been been faster. It certainly hasn't been cheaper. Remains to be seen about better. The idea was to take those parts that we knew and understood, reintegrate them into this stack. But it's been a very expensive process, way beyond what we expected.

BERMAN: We just saw Vice President Kamala Harris arriving, I believe, at the Kennedy Space Center where she will be there this morning. She was going to view the launch that I think she is hoping will still happen. Again, we're still waiting to see if it will take place. Mars, Professor, how realistic at this point?

KAKU: Well, we're going on stage one, stage two, so on and so forth. Artemis 1 is the launch we're seeing today. Artemis 2 is when we go around the moon with live astronauts. Artemis 3 is when we actually land on the moon with a person of color and a woman. And Artemis 4 is the permanent presence on another celestial body. All of which will go towards going to Mars sometime after 2030. And so we have to look at the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. We're talking not just about the moon and then forgetting about it. We're talking about going onto Mars, having a permanent presence on another celestial body.

BERMAN: You're looking at live pictures right now of Artemis 1. That's a huge rocket. We haven't seen anything like this in 50 years launch. Unclear if it will happen this morning. Professor Miles, please, stand by.

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We are keeping an eye on this all morning long as we await for official word from NASA on the fate of this launch.

In other news this morning, Senator Lindsey Graham, he said there will be riots in the streets if charges are filed against Donald Trump.

We have reaction, next.

KEILAR: And an NFL running back shot in a possible robbery or carjacking, how he is doing this morning.

And new overnight, two people were killed in a shooting at a grocery store in Bend, Oregon.

We'll have the latest next.

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BERMAN: All right, you're looking at live pictures of Launchpad 39B at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. That is the Artemis 1 Mission, the SLS rocket that is scheduled to take off. The launch window opens in about 14 minutes; however, there had been problems all morning long, some kind of a leak in engine three, that's at the bottom of that orange cylinder you're seeing right there.

They are trying to figure out exactly how bad, whether they can get this back on track, but it does seem at a minimum that this will be delayed this morning. We're waiting for final word from NASA if it will take off at all.

Those are live pictures of the engines. Engine number three is the one where there is currently the problem there trying to assess if it will keep that launch from happening this morning. Stay with us. We will bring you that information as soon as it comes.

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BERMAN: So new overnight, two people killed in a shooting at a Safeway grocery store in Bend, Oregon. Police say the gunman used an AR-15 style rifle. They say, a person believed to be the shooter was also found dead at the scene in an apparent suicide.

CNN's Brynn Gingras joins us now with the details of this and also it was a very violent night around the country.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really was, John, and a terrifying scene inside that grocery store. One employee said that they were closing up the deli shop for the night and they just had to run for their lives. Take a listen to this.

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SAFEWAY EMPLOYEE: It was loud enough to make me and three other employees run into a walk-in refrigerator and close the door and stayed there, we stayed hidden until the authorities arrived. Thank God for such a quick response time from our brave men and women of law enforcement.

When we went outside we saw one injured shopper and then we just kept on, going out in the parking lot.

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GINGRAS: That gunman armed with an assault rifle moved through the store. Witnesses estimate firing dozens of shots. The motive for the shooting still unclear, the FBI and local law enforcement conducting a search of the shooter's home to find some answers, and that is just one of many investigations ongoing this morning as gunfire broke out in many cities all across this country. New York, Houston, Detroit -- let's go to DC. The Washington

Commanders' rookie running back, Brian Robinson, Jr. was shot twice in the leg. According to police there, they think he was the victim of an attempted robbery or carjacking. Two suspects fled the scene and a gun was found nearby.

Robinson is going to be okay; the team is saying his injuries are not life threatening. So good news there, John, but yes, just gunfire breaking out in many cities across this country.

BERMAN: Yes, and just listening to that one story after, it was a very troubling weekend.

Brynn Gingras, thank you very much.

KEILAR: The Director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines has sent a letter to the House Intelligence and House Oversight Committee Chairs saying the Intelligence Community is conducting a damage assessment of the documents that have been taken from Mar-a-Lago.

Those documents include 67 marked confidential; 92 marked secret, and 25 marked top-secret.

CNN's Josh Campbell is joining us now with more on this -- Josh.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, we're learning more about what is happening behind the scenes inside the US Intelligence Community in the wake of this FBI's search of the former President's West Palm Beach residence.

According to this letter to Congress from the DNI, this is the person who oversees the 18 Intelligence components inside the US government, they are now conducting a damage assessment.

I'll read you part of that letter that was obtained by our colleague, Jeremy Herb. The DNI says that the Department of Justice and her office are working together to facilitate a classification review of relevant materials.

ODNI will also lead an Intelligence Community assessment of the potential risk to national security that would result from the disclosure of the relevant documents.

And just to remind viewers, what was found inside that residence according to this FBI search warrant affidavit, they found documents pertaining to the US government's control of human source intelligence.

You know, I can tell you having worked in intelligence before overseas doing joint debriefings with CIA of sources, when you gather information from someone and put that in a cable and press send, you pray that that information will be tightly controlled and responsibly handled by everyone who touches that document.

So here, obviously, the question is, why would the former President have this kind of material inside his residence? We also know from the FBI affidavit that he had information pertaining to the US government's signals intelligence capabilities.

It is important to note, you know, there has been a lot of conjecture, particularly from anti-Trump people speculating why he had this information there. I think it would be wise for us to wait, we don't know what the motivation was, but we do know that the fact that it was there is now causing the Intelligence Community to launch this damage assessment.

There are essentially, Brianna, two things going on at one time. You have the DOJ criminal probe, and you now have the US Intelligence Community doing this damage assessment to determine if there was a potential threat to national security had this information been disclosed to people without authorization.

KEILAR: All right, Josh, and we'll certainly await that.

Josh Campbell, thank you for that report.

CAMPBELL: Thanks.

BERMAN: Senator Lindsey Graham says people would take to the streets if former President Trump is indicted for half for mishandling classified documents.

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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If there is a prosecution of Donald Trump for mishandling classified information after the Clinton debacle, which you presided over and did a hell of a good job, there'll be riots in the streets.

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BERMAN: With us now, CNN political commentator and host of CNN's "Smerconish," Michael Smerconish. Michael, great to see you.

Mayor McCord, who was on with Brianna earlier this morning, said when she heard that, it sounded to her like an implicit threat. What do you hear there?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I heard him say that there's a perception of a double standard. I think there is a perception of a double standard that was fueled in part by Mark Zuckerberg in the last couple of days talking about how Facebook was approached by the FBI in the 11th hour of the last campaign saying be on the lookout for Russian misinformation or disinformation.

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SMERCONISH: Whether these are apples and apples, we can debate, but there is a perception that when it was Hillary, when it was Hunter Biden it gets handled differently than when it is Donald Trump. So, I'm worried about what Lindsey Graham is saying.

I think the harder issue here is how is Merrick Garland supposed to evaluate that information? And what I mean is that traditionally, a prosecutor takes a look at a case and decides, is there sufficient evidence for me to prosecute a crime? Can I win it?

In this set of circumstances, there is an additional criteria, it seems, in fact, "The New York Times" in that huge editorial that they ran this weekend, said, Merrick Garland also needs to determine whether it would be wise to bring a prosecution.

If there's a fear of civil unrest, should that enter into Garland's decision making? I would argue no, because we can't have prosecutors making decisions based on polling data or the prospect of civil unrest, because then the rule of law disintegrates.

So, if you've got a serious crime for which anyone, including a former President broke the law, I think you have to bring it, but I'll bet all of this is being discussed within justice.

KEILAR: Why do you think he is saying this in the venue, that he is saying it?

SMERCONISH: Brianna, if I'm a cynic, I say maybe to influence the process, maybe to influence Merrick Garland's thinking, maybe to give pause to justice that they better have something of sufficient seriousness before they bring that case, because otherwise, you might have civil unrest, and would it then be worth it?

BERMAN: It's interesting, Michael, and you brought up "The New York Times" editorial over the weekend, which talks about -- it leans into the idea that perhaps Donald Trump, if there is evidence, should be prosecuted.

One of the arguments that they make is just what you said there, which is that if there is evidence of a crime, and you do not prosecute it, does that open the door then for this type of law breaking in perpetuity? What's to keep other people in similar conditions from doing the exact same thing or worse?

SMERCONISH: So, "The New York Times," it's funny -- I have it in front of me -- speaks of whether there's a serious charge to be made against Donald Trump. "The Wall Street Journal" coming at it from a different end of the political spectrum speaks of the need for there to be something bigger than the mishandling of documents.

What do we really have on our hands at this stage? We really don't know. We know the classification seriousness of the documents, although the three charges that they're contemplating bringing aren't dependent upon classification.

So, classification is sort of a barometer of how serious is this? So far, no evidence of that nuclear complaint that was first raised in "The Washington Post." So are we going to know it when we see it? I think that's really what we're trying to determine.

BERMAN: And we also, Michael, don't know, as some have speculated whether or not one of the driving forces here for Merrick Garland was just to get this stuff back. Whether that was a more compelling reason to do this than the possibility ultimately of pressing charges, whether or not he thought it was just such a risk to have it at Mar-a- Lago that it was worth all of this just to get it back.

SMERCONISH: And one of the other big unknowns is why was Trump hanging on to it? I mean, isn't it pretty clear at this stage that the former president had in his possession property that was not his, but rather belong to all of us?

So, why, when he was requested to hand it over, when there was a visit, when there was this communication back and forth, not all of which we've seen, why did he persist in holding on to it? We don't know the answer to that question.

BERMAN: Michael Smerconish, it is always great to speak to you in the morning. You make us smarter.

SMERCONISH: See you.

BERMAN: Thanks so much.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

KEILAR: And here is a live look at the Kennedy Space Center, lots of issues this morning, several of them may put the Artemis 1's launch at risk for this morning's window.

We're going to be joined by a former NASA astronaut who spent more than 100 days in space when our coverage continues.

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