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U.N. Nuclear Inspectors Arrive in Ukraine as Fears Mount Over Plant; Ukraine Launches Major Operation in Russian-Captured South; Gunmen Fire RPGs and Machine Guns onto Baghdad's Green Zone; Today Marks One Year Since Last U.S. Plane Left Afghanistan; U.S. Intel Began Reviewing Trump Docs in May to Assess Risk. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired August 30, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Signs that a Ukrainian counteroffensive has begun. And rocket attacks in Baghdad as that country sees upheaval not witnessed in years.

[06:00:07]

I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. And President Zelenskyy is telling Russians to go home as Ukrainian troops press to gain ground in the South.

The Ukrainians say they have retaken four villages from Russian occupation. You can see a couple of them right here. They are near the crucial city of Kherson.

Kherson, of course, was the first city to fall to the Russians months ago.

The Kremlin is acknowledging Ukraine's counteroffensive but claims it failed miserably and that Ukrainian forces suffered heavy losses. We are live on the ground.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And political chaos gripping Iraq as deadly clashes break out in Baghdad's Green Zone.

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(GUNFIRE)

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KEILAR: At least ten people were killed, more than 200 injured after a powerful cleric announced he is stepping down from politics. Hundreds of protesters stormed the government palace. They were met by tear gas and live fire.

And just getting word that four rockets landed in the Green Zone. What was damaged, straight ahead.

And it's been one year since the final U.S. plane left Afghanistan. A CNN special report on how life has changed under the Taliban. Clarissa Ward is standing by in London. But first, we do begin in Ukraine. Melissa Bell kicking off our

coverage like from Kyiv, where a team from the International Atomic Energy Agency has arrived, ahead of a planned visit to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant -- Melissa.

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, that's right. We're just outside the hotel where a press conference had been due by this inspection team. Their vehicles were parked outside. We were asked not to show them.

That's now been cancelled, though we don't really understand why. We were hoping to hear more details about exactly this team hopes to get to Zaporizhzhia in order to carry out that much-needed inspection after so many day of shelling around the plant and claims and counterclaims about what damage may or may not have been done. So really, be keeping an eye on that.

But it is also the real story from Ukraine this morning, that counteroffensive that has brought so much hope to Ukrainians. This morning, we're hearing from regional commanders that day two has seen fighting in a number of towns along that front line.

There is a great deal of hope, as I say, that this will manage to make some progress. We're hearing again from Ukrainian authorities that all of the crossing points across the Dnipro River that allow Russian troops and weapons to make their way across to try and defend Kherson have now been destroyed.

And it is that fight on the infrastructure for which those American- supplied HIMARS have been so useful. Those longer-range, high-mobility artillery rocket systems have helped the Ukrainians over the course of the last couple of weeks really set the stage for this, prepare the ground for this long-awaited offensive.

We're hearing a great deal of determination, as well, in the voice of President Zelenskyy, who spoke in his nightly address last night of the need to push Russians back to their border and insisting that this was something that was going to happen.

And yet, words of caution or at least an urging of patience from the senior presidential adviser this morning, saying, Look, this is going to be a long grind, and Ukrainians need to be patient. Even if, as I say, those early successes, those first villages that were taken yesterday, have led to a great deal of hope, Brianna.

KEILAR: Melissa Bell, live for us in Ukraine. Thank you, Melissa.

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now is Reena Ninan. She's a former ABC News and CBS News anchor and a veteran foreign affairs correspondent.

Reena, I want to talk about the counteroffensive, which Ukrainians say has more or less begun. It seems centered around Kherson here in the South. Why is that city so important?

REENA NINAN, FORMER ANCHOR, ABC NEWS AND CBS NEWS: That city is usually important. Psychologically, it was the first town, essentially, taken by the Russians.

One of the things we heard Zelenskyy say in his evening address last night was they want to push the Russians back to their borders, meaning from back to eight years ago when they took this area right here, Crimea.

What you've seen, what the military strategy, many are saying, in Russia, has been to create this land bridge from Kherson down here to Crimea. And this is tactically so important.

It's hard to tell, John. We've known this summer they've wanted to push for a counter-offensive at some point. We just don't know, with the fog of war, who's telling what story and who's true.

BERMAN: Look, and just to be clear, the towns that the Ukrainians say that they've retaken include towns right here in Kherson and a town up here. We've been seeing counteroffensive operations for months and months. The question is, what's different about this?

NINAN: What's different about this, we've seen the HIMARS military system, weapons system, giving them a tactical advantage. That has helped significantly, we've heard in many instances.

If you also look down here, the Black Sea. Kherson is so important as far as access. So cutting that off could be very critical if the Russians were to be able to maintain that and keep that.

But at this moment right now, it's -- it's that military backing that's been able to help them in the past few weeks, but tactically, it's been a deadlock, particularly here in Donbas out in the East.

[06:05:03]

BERMAN: Well, I was going to ask about that. This is where the counteroffensive is allegedly taking place. We've always talked about the importance of Odessa right here. Anything that the Ukrainians can do to keep the Russians out of that is key.

But even if you're gaining ground here, what does that do over where all the fighting has been and the Russians have taken a lot of territory?

NINAN: They have taken a lot of territory, and there's some early reports that they're removing some of their troops to sort of restation back down in the South where Kherson is, that is where the focus will be over the next coming weeks. But it's just very hard to tell, John.

As I mentioned it's been deadlocked. But the backing of the HIMARS system has made a tactical difference.

BERMAN: We've seen so much activity, attempted Ukrainian activity in Crimea here, which has been a Russian stronghold. Does this -- does this help explain what we've seen there now if Ukrainians want to do operations around here? NINAN: Zelenskyy made it very clear last night in that speech. He says

we're pushing Russians back to the borders from back to eight years ago. And he also said, essentially warning the Russians, you want to live, leave now.

BERMAN: All right. Reena Ninan, stand by. Much more with you in just a moment.

KEILAR: Overnight, Iraqi security forces say four rockets landed in the heavily fortified Green Zone after clashes broke out Monday when a powerful Iraqi Shia cleric announced his withdrawal from political life.

The clashes left at least ten dead. Hundreds more were injured. Protesters stormed the Republican Palace where the government meets, forcing Iraqi security forces to clear the area.

A group of protesters were even seen swimming in the pool at the palace, waving Iraqi flags.

CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman has more -- Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna. What we've seen is overnight, an intensification of clashes between, it appears, these supporters of Muqtada al-Sadr and Iraqi security forces as well as some clashes between al-Sadr's supporters and rival Shia factions affiliated with Iran and other parts of the country.

The U.N. at this point is saying the very survival of the Iraqi state is now at stake, given the climate in the Iraqi capital.

What we know is that, basically, this began back in October of last year, when Iraq had parliamentary elections. The Sadrist movement, led by Muqtada al-Sadr, won the largest bloc of seats; but they weren't able to form a government coalition, and they refused to speak to the main -- their main rivals, a Shia faction affiliated with Iran.

Muqtada al-Sadr yesterday came out and announced that he's pulling out of politics. That's when his supporters went to the Green Zone. Some of them were already camped out there. They stormed what's known as the Republican Palace, a palace that dates back to the days of Saddam Hussein; took over the building, not violently at the time; but later clashes broke out.

And now it appears that the situation is almost out of control. I've been watching those networks that are currently broadcasting live from Baghdad. And it is a scene of constant heavy gunfire.

The Iranians have cut the border, closed the border with Iraq. The -- Kuwait has ordered its -- its nationals to return home. The Emirates has stopped flights to Baghdad. So the situation is very uncertain, and many fear it could be the beginning of a civil war -- Brianna.

KEILAR: A dire situation in Iraq. Ben, thank you for that report.

BERMAN: All right. I want to bring back Reena Ninan. She spent a lot of time in Iraq in Baghdad, as did I back in 2003, 2004, 2005, when Muqtada al-Sadr burst onto the scene. And at that time, there was no one who inspired more loyalty on the streets, nor was as enigmatic as Muqtada al-Sadr, so explain to me exactly who he is.

NINAN: And he still has a huge following of millions behind him, John. And you're right. What's interesting is how, in the Middle East, things can get turned upside on its head.

During that time period, he was actively calling for attacks against U.S. military, able to mobilize his people. As you can see, Ben laid out exactly the chaos right there in Baghdad.

He is able to just say, because they were at deadlock, essentially, as Ben laid out. He was like, Fine, you want to take over the country? You do it. I'm removing myself.

I don't buy that he's removing. He's done this before in the past, and then he ends up coming back, particularly around election times, when he just feels like it's not working out, and he always re-emerges.

He's spent two decades. You saw him as he was just rising up. We were both on the ground in Iraq. He spent two decades creating the political clout, leading his followers. I don't see him completely leaving.

If we've got a map of Iraq, I want to show you what's so important, when Ben laid out this civil war that's taking place. We're seeing a lot of the images out of Baghdad.

Down here in Basra, this is where almost 80 percent of the oil comes out. Why this is so important, and people are watching this, beyond what they might have ten months ago.

[06:10:04]

The oil. When we are talking about the situation in Russia and Ukraine right now, many of the Gulf regions are saying right now that produce oil, are saying they're kind of tapped out. They can't produce more.

They were hoping that Iraq might be the place where they could tap out more oil production this Fall. When there's civil unrest like this, Shiite versus Shiite, that puts all of that oil production in jeopardy.

BERMAN: Muqtada al-Sadr is operating in and around Baghdad. Also in the holy cities, which are down here. Baghdad is religiously mixed. Basra, as we're saying down here, largely Shia.

NINAN: Right.

BERMAN: There's almost no central government at this time exerting its authority over the entire nation. I mean, what is the status of the country?

NINAN: For ten months now, it's the longest Iraq has gone in this sort of limbo phase. Basra, we've seen -- you know, I'm mentioning Basra, because there was

a great deal of unrest there, as well, and there's concern about, as I mentioned, the production.

But this is where it was, you know -- Sadr was supposed to -- he, as Ben laid out, had the most -- largest number of seats. The first thing you've got to do is pick a president. They couldn't even get to that point.

BERMAN: Again, look at all the surrounding countries. You see why the world, especially the United States, has an interest in a stable Iraq. Far from that right now.

Reena Ninan, thank you so much.

KEILAR: Today marks one year since the final U.S. plane left Afghanistan, the last official moment in a frantic evacuation that left thousands upon thousands behind as the Taliban took control of the country.

Joining us now, CNN chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, who was there a year ago. And Clarissa, I want to play something that you said just a few hours after the announcement that that last plane had left.

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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In the coming weeks and months, and dare I say, years, there will be time, as well, to reflect as a nation on what this meant and what it was all for; and what the residue is; and what the repercussions could be. And what will happen, ultimately, to Afghanistan, as it will now be under Taliban control.

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KEILAR: That was so interesting how you put that: what will the residue be; what will the repercussions be? You've had a year now. What do you reflect on now?

WARD: Well, I think, Brianna, there's no question about it, it's a very grim picture in Afghanistan. We just spent two weeks there. The people are even more impoverished than they have been in a very long time. More than half the people are relying on humanitarian aid just to eat.

The IRC, the International Rescue Committee, says 97 percent of people will probably be living under the poverty line by the end of the year.

And then on top of that, you have the sort of egregious behavior of the Taliban, in giving shelter to Ayman al-Zawahiri, the leader of al Qaeda. That, of course, really complicates efforts to try to normalize relations between the U.S. and the Taliban.

And I think what is so striking, though, in terms of one year later, and sort of thinking about what this 20-year war really meant, we went and visited a place called Wardak province. It's 50 miles away from Kabul.

And we spoke to young men and women who were -- well, mostly men, I should say, who were very sympathetic to the Taliban; who were not only sympathetic to the Taliban and not only viewed the U.S. as the sort of -- as an enemy who brought drone strikes, who brought death and destruction, but were also talking in glowing terms about Osama bin Laden, who they called a crown on the head of all Muslims.

And when you listen to that, and what you hear that, Brianna, you do have to ask yourself that question again. So little has changed fundamentally in certain parts of the country. And so what was it all for? And if those sympathies are still there, and the issue of the safe haven is still there, what was the real impact?

Now, there's another way of looking at it, as well, which is, OK, the Taliban and its sympathizers may not have changed; but other people, many Afghans, particularly those living in cities, have changed; and that will make a difference, ultimately.

But because of the enormous economic and humanitarian crises that are unfolding there, it's difficult to feel optimistic about the prospects of people like that -- Brianna.

KEILAR: You mentioned that in your report. Part of the reason that the Taliban was welcoming of journalists was because they wanted the world to see the suffering. They want us to point out that Afghans need aid.

Is there any leverage for the U.S. and other countries to, you know, affect how they govern, how they do or do not allow there to be a safe haven for terrorists with that?

WARD: Well, I think initially, there was some hope that, because the Taliban was trying to market itself as a more pragmatic version of its incarnation in the 1990s, that there would be the option, by withholding that aid, by freezing those Afghan central bank assets, that there would be some kind of leverage that the U.S. would maintain in terms of trying to influence how the Taliban governed.

[06:15:05]

And particularly, early on, the U.S. was most, I think, concerned about women being marginalized from public spaces and, of course, the de facto ban on the education, secondary education, of girls.

When it becomes much more complex is when you have the sheltering of Ayman al-Zawahiri in central Kabul, because really, the preset of the Doha agreements which precipitated the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan was this very firm pledge from the Taliban that they would never allow, again, Afghanistan to become any kind of safe haven or sanctuary for terrorist groups.

And the sheltering of al-Zawahiri fundamentally throws that into -- into question and really, I think, complicates any efforts, as I mentioned before, to try to find some normalization of relations.

Important to say here, as well, Brianna, this isn't just the U.S. Not a single country in the world has yet to recognize the Taliban government. And yet, we don't see the knock-on effect of that being any meaningful change within the Taliban.

When you talk to Taliban leaders, it's interesting. They will adapt a more conciliatory tone. They will say that they are willing to make these changes, that they want to see girls be educated. But that they need to have that consensus coming from within.

But if you're only hearing that in private conversations and you're not seeing that as a matter of policy, then it becomes much more difficult to take it at its worth.

KEILAR: Yes. Certainly does. Clarissa, as always, tremendous reporting on Afghanistan one year later. Thank you.

Coming up, assessing the damage. New information about how long intelligence agencies have been investigating the documents that were taken from Mar-a-Lago.

Plus, a Secret Service official at the center of the January 6th hearings steps down. What is next for Tony Ornato?

BERMAN: And a crisis unfolding in Greenland. Widespread ice loss expected to raise ocean levels by nearly a foot. There might be no way to stop it.

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[06:21:18]

KEILAR: We have new CNN reporting on the Trump Mar-a-Lago investigation. CNN learning that intel agencies began reviewing some Mar-a-Lago documents in mid-May to assess classification levels and to -- and risks to sources.

Joining us now, CNN reporter Katie Bo Lillis, who is a part of the team that broke this story; and CNN security correspondent, Josh Campbell with us, as well.

Tell us about this, what you found out, Katie Bo, about what began in mid-May?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so Brianna, what we've learned is that, starting in mid-May, when the FBI first obtained access to these 15 boxes at the National Archives they recovered from Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in January, they started working with individual intelligence agencies to assess the right level of classification for many of these documents.

So the way this would work is, for example, the FBI would take a document that belonged to, say, the CIA. They would take it to the agency, and they would say, What is this? And the CIA would help them determine the appropriate classification level.

But there was this kind of, let's call it an informal bonus to this investigative practice. It allowed the individual agencies to take a look at the documents that belonged to them and make an early and informal determination about whether or not they needed to do anything immediately to try to mitigate any potential harm to sources, were that document to be exposed.

KEILAR: This is different from the damage assessment that we learned about through the DNI?

LILLIS: Yes, so -- yes, very important to understand that this is distinct. The so-called damage assessment that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence is running, that is the whole intelligence community.

And it is a broader, more analytical picture at the potential harm that could come, if the documents contained in these boxes were to be exposed to the wrong eyes.

What's been happening up until now is kind of a document-by-document classification review as part of the FBI investigation.

KEILAR: So how does this work, Josh, going back to the kind of sorting and classifying of those 15 boxes from January, how does that work, where the FBI gets this from the National Archives and then liaises with these agencies?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, this is unprecedented. We're talking about, essentially, a national security threat from a former president. But it's important to note that this type of -- and pardon the NBO (ph) terms this early in the morning -- but the risk management, the risk assessments, both enterprise and just tactical level, that Katie has been talking about, that happens all the time.

Each of these 18 U.S. intelligence community components, they have a counterintelligence arm that's responsible for protecting that information.

And so the way this is -- this would work is that the FBI gathers a set of documents. They would bring that to that team and determine, OK, you are a stakeholder here. You have equities. Tell us about these documents. And that's what's happening now.

I can tell you, you know, having worked on some of these compromises of intelligence, whether it was deliberately by someone on the inside or an adversary, or even just information that was mistakenly divulged, speed matters.

And so, as Katie Bo's important reporting notes, they're not just going to sit on it and wait for some blue-ribbon commission or committee to get together. They're going to take it to the stakeholders and try to determine what is in this document and why is it important.

Secondly, I think this is important. It's for our viewers to know there are mainly two types of intelligence. There's what's called raw intelligence reporting and finished intelligence. Raw is just what it sounds like. You have the case officer from CIA.

The FBI agent oversees debriefing a source. They take that information, send it back to their headquarters. NSA, they're doing technical collection. They gather that, send it back to their headquarters.

I would be very surprised if that type of raw information was sitting in Mar-a-Lago. If possible, the president, he could have been interested in a particular topic, asked his briefer to drill down on a particular topic.

What I expect is we're mainly going to see what's called finished intelligence. That is an intelligence analyst gathering that information and making it into something that a customer, the president, can understand.

The problem there is that those documents, like an academic report, they can cite multiple agencies. And so all those footnotes the FBI has to go through and go to all those agencies and say, Is there damage here if this information got into the wrong hands?

[06:25:12]

KEILAR: Yes. And separately but related to -- to all of this, the -- some of the investigation here, we've learned that the U.S. Secret Service assistant director, Tony Ornato, who was -- you know, his participation in the day of January 6th was essential to Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony before the committee. We've learned that he has left the agency. What more can you tell us?

CAMPBELL: Well, he tells CNN that he's not going to work for any type of Trump entity. That was the big question. He's obviously been very close to former President Donald Trump.

I think we'll have to wait and see exactly where he goes. But what this means for the Secret Service is this is someone who was in this unusual position. This was a career Secret Service agent who then went to the White House in a political role.

Multiple agencies, as you know, they send details to the White House, to the National Security Council to work at kind of the line level, share information.

But this was so different. This was a political role which really cast a lot of doubt on the Secret Service. I think a lot of the agents will be glad to see this kind of go away. This debate we've seen about whether the agency was politicized. I think we'll have to wait and see where he actually ends up, which could be telling, in and of itself.

KEILAR: Certainly could be. We'll be waiting for that. Josh, Katie Bo, great reporting. Thank you so much.

We do have some more news, CNN reporting ahead. How former first lady Melania Trump reacted when she learned that FBI agent had searched her Mar-a-Lago home.

Plus --

BERMAN: A dire climate forecast. New research says melting ice in Greenland could raise global sea levels by nearly a foot.

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