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New Day

Tony Ornato, Assistant Director of Secret Service and Witness in January 6th Hearings, Leaves Agency; Justice Department Preparing Response to Former President Trump's Request for Special Master to Oversee FBI's Review of Materials Seized at Mar-a-Lago; Ukraine Launches Counteroffensive against Russian Forces; Standoff Escalates as More Migrants Bused to NYC from Texas. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 30, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We had an awful lot of rain in a very short amount of time, John. And we got all of the water in the river at the same time. And the waters rose, rose to levels like we almost saw just a couple years ago. Nowhere near in 1979 where the water was significantly higher, another seven feet on top of where we are right now.

The water level is going down, but there was water behind a dam in the reservoir that was the intake area. That water has been rushing into the intake and kind of mixing around with the treated water. Obviously, the reservoir water you would hope is perfectly good. But with all that flooding and all that water in the reservoir, it's not safe. It's simply not safe to be drinking the water with all of the excess of water that has been running off now for days.

The water is going down. The flood is going down. There's no more real rain on the radar today and very little rain for the next few days. But they have their hands full getting people water just to drink right now, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, important update there. Chad, thank you very much.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: A sudden departure this morning by a key figure in the January 6th investigation. Tony Ornato, the assistant director of the Secret Service left the agency on Monday. This is a significant move that comes two months after Ornato's name came up in explosive testimony by former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson. She said that Ornato told her then President Trump was furious with his security detail for refusing to take him to the Capitol on January 6th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: The president said something to the effect of, I'm the f-ing president, take me up to the capitol now, to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the West Wing. The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge toward Bobby Engel. And when Mr. Ornato mentioned the story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Kara Scannell is joining us now with the details. Kara, what does this departure mean.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Brianna, good morning. This departure is very sudden by Tony Ornato, who is the assistant director at the Secret Service. As you say, it comes two months after Cassidy Hutchinson, that White House aide, gave that revealing testimony before the January select committee, that Ornato has been before the committee twice in January and March, but he has not been before the committee since contributor's testimony.

The big question here is whether he will. And of course, as you just played some of that sound, she talks about how Ornato told her how the former president was irate on January 6th that his security detail would not take him to the U.S. Capitol grounds after he gave that fiery speech at the Ellipse, and that he lunged at his security detail to try to get them to take him to the capitol.

Ornato is an interest person because he is someone who was not only once the head of Trump's security detail, but he also went and worked in the White House for Trump as a deputy chief of staff before returning to the service. Ornato is now leaving the agency. He told CNN in a statement that he's retiring after more than 25 years, working for five presidents. He said he's going to work for the private sector, but specifically said he will not be working for the former president or any of his entities. Brianna?

KEILAR: Very interesting to see where he lands. Kara, thank you for that.

BERMAN: Happening today, the Justice Department is set to respond to Donald Trump's request for a special master to oversee the FBI's review of materials seized at Mar-a-Lago. The DOJ was granted permission to file 40 pages. There was supposed to be a 20-page limit, but DOJ said, hey, we need more pages to adequately address the legal and factual issues raised by Trump's filing.

With me, Paul Callan, CNN legal analyst and former New York City prosecutor, and Elie Honig, CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. And Elie, look, they've asked for more pages. It seems to me the DOJ is saying we have stuff we want to get off our chest here.

ELIE HONIG, SENIOR CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is kind of unusual in a couple respects. First of all, there is such a thing as asking for an overlength brief. I never did it as a matter of practice. I have a short attention span. But you can do it if you feel that you just can't say it in 20 pages. The other thing is DOJ has been really concise in the filings we've

seen so far. Ten-page briefs, the whole affidavit was 37 pages. So they've got something on their minds. And when we try to anticipate what that might be, if you look at Donald Trump's initial filing, the motion when he asked for a special master, there's sort of two parts. The part where he asked for a special master is straightforward, mundane, uncontroversial. But there's a whole bunch of crazy stuff that precedes it where Trump's lawyers are going on tangents about this is all a political attack and other political talking points. So I wonder how much of each DOJ is going to address.

[08:05:01]

BERMAN: And this is by far the most we will hear from DOJ since the search warrant was executed. All the things that have been released are actually from before that moment. This is in some ways their first chance to respond at length.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, it is, and there are complex issues involved here because if a special master is appointed, that special master will have to be somebody who is qualified to look at classified material, heavily classified material, those SCI documents that allegedly are among the instruments that were seized. They've got to deal with that.

They also have to deal with other things that, as Elie talked about, were raised earlier, for instance, a claim of executive privilege, which most lawyers that I know who have looked at there think that's nonsense to say executive privilege could possibly apply to documents sitting in a cardboard box at Mar-a-Lago. But that may be something that the brief by Justice is going to deal with.

And finally, of course, the idea, the train has already left the station here. They delayed, Trump's lawyers, for almost three weeks before they filed this motion. DOJ has already had a taint team or a privilege team come in and look at the documents and pull out the ones that aren't relevant to the investigation because they are attorney- client privilege documents.

BERMAN: Just attorney-client privilege, not executive, which is what the actual Trump filing focuses on, which is legal twilight zone right now in terms of this type of thing, because no one knows exactly how it will apply.

Elie, I do want to ask you one thing, because Lindsey Graham and others, when they're making the statements, when Lindsey Graham said that there will be rioting on the streets if Donald Trump is charged. He said one of the reasons would be because Hillary Clinton wasn't charged for her emails in 2016. Well, there are those who have pointed out that Donald Trump himself signed, signed a changed law which gave a harsher penalty for possession or misuse of classified information.

HONIG: Two things. First of all, there is absolutely no excuse for what Lindsey Graham said. I've seen some people try to say, well, he was only making a prediction. No, that is a message to prosecutors. That is potentially a message to people who might take to the streets. That is unacceptable rhetoric and that's going to only lead to bad places.

Why this is relevant, John, the fact that Donald Trump himself signed a law increasing penalties for mishandling of documents, is one of the things you might -- you do have to show -- not might, do have to show as a prosecutor, is knowledge and intent. You don't have to show that the person knew every nuance of the law, but you have to show that the person knew what they did was generally unlawful. How better to show that than here he is sitting in the Oval Office with a pen signing the law.

BERMAN: One point on Lindsey Graham before we go. Lindsey Graham said what he said. Last night, late last night he said, well, I'm not calling for violence. I'm just saying it's going to happen. So he tried to clarify that.

CALLAN: John, can I add one thing on the Hillary Clinton stuff, too? One thing you have to remember is that Trump became president and had full authority to, as head of the Justice Department, president, to investigate further with respect to the Hillary Clinton computer or anything else. And guess what? There was no further investigation done. Why didn't he issue an order to Jeff Sessions saying, would you mind taking another look at that case? OK, so he was the head of the Justice Department technically.

BERMAN: Paul, Elie, thank you both very much.

KEILAR: There's some major new developments in Russia's war in Ukraine. The Ukrainian counteroffensive is now underway. Four villages already taken back from Russian control in the south. The Kremlin is acknowledging Ukraine's counteroffensive but claims that it failed miserably. That statement, of course, suspect as so much from the Kremlin is.

Joining us now is retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman. He's the former director of European Affairs for the National Security Council. And you actually just returned, Alex, from Ukraine where you were helping the armed forces in talking to a number of officials there. But just walk us through here what we're seeing and this focus on the south.

LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN, (RET) FORMER EUROPEAN AFFAIRS DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Thanks, Brianna. I'm actually a little surprised you're letting me drive this, but that's OK.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: You seem to know how to do it.

VINDMAN: Sure.

KEILAR: So I'm going to let you go ahead here.

VINDMAN: So I basically came in from Poland into Kyiv and then spent some time down in the central parts of Ukraine. It's amazing to understand that this is hundreds and hundreds of kilometers in here. Right now, we're talking about this area in the south in Kherson. It's about almost 800 or 1,000 kilometers from here all the way to the border. One of the things I was working on was getting all this equipment fixed because it's impossible to sustain a war effort from that far away from where the fighting is occurring.

This right here is the Dnipro River. It's basically an impenetrable obstacle once the Ukrainian secure this area. If they do manage to do this, they'll have pushed the Russians back to the south and then will be able to focus most of the elements, all their forces in here will then shift to the south and east to start to liberate other portions of the country. It's a hard fight. It's a large amount of territory.

[08:10:00]

And frankly, I've got concerns about whether the Ukrainians have the combat power to do it. One of the things I learned when I was in Ukraine is that they've taken an enormous amount of losses, about 30 to 40 percent of their company-grade officers, lieutenants, and captains. Those are the ones that are doing the fighting right now. But if they do, then that eases the strategic picture for them significant, and frankly, you could see a broader collapse in the Russian ability to conduct this war.

KEILAR: What does it take to push from here to the river? And take us through a little bit more, then, and we can look at the Donbas, too, of where that could lead the Ukrainian counteroffensive if they are successful.

VINDMAN: So I described this as probably the last major opportunity for a shorter war. If the Ukrainians are able to do this, it will decisively shift the initiative over to the Ukrainian side. It will probably break the morale spirit of the Russians in large portions. They'll have to ask themselves some significant questions. Kherson right here is the major city in this entire war effort that they've managed to seize, bigger than Mariupol, than anything else. It's strategic. It also gives them control of the Dnipro River. If they manage to do that, you could then see the repositioning of forces all the way from back in here to this front over here, something far more palatable and manageable for the Ukrainians to start to first defend and then attack through.

KEILAR: What does this do to the timeline? This is looking so much like a grind. How long does this go on for?

VINDMAN: So I think the Ukrainians are thinking about doing this over the course of the rest of the summer into the fall before there's a winter freeze. That winter freeze doesn't mean the end of fighting, but what it does mean is probably a significant reduction. It's harder for troops to conduct operations. Equipment starts to break down. And then you can see a fighting season reemerge in the spring and summer of next year. So that's what happens if the Ukrainians don't liberate Kherson. If they do, then I think Russia is in a very difficult situation. It's going to have to start to think about seriously considering negotiations and an exit to this war.

KEILAR: Possible negotiations.

Let's go back to the big picture here. How much -- how much land could Ukraine regain with the resources that you say that it needs?

VINDMAN: I think Kherson is viable. Again, it's this area in here. That's probably something that they could regain in the near term over the course of the next several months. I think the rest of it might have to -- if they have catastrophic success, it's an interesting term, more than they expected, then they could start to make gains in this direction, Zaporizhzhia, and start to really jeopardize Russia's land bridge to Crimea. I think the rest of this area over here is going to have to wait until some other point in time. That's the area that the Russians have had some sort of control over since 2014, have made some limited gains on since February 24th of this year.

KEILAR: Alex, it's great to have you back and to talk about what we're seeing here today and what you saw in your trip. So thank you very much for that.

Thousands of migrants from the southern border are now being housed in New York City's homeless shelters. Can the city handle the influx, though?

And the debate continues over President Biden's student loan forgiveness plan. Is it good or bad for the economy? We'll have a debate.

BERMAN: Serena Williams advances to the second round of the U.S. Open. Is this really her last tournament? Did she just leave the door open for more?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:39]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Close to 7,600 asylum seekers have now gone through New York City's shelter system after being bused there by Texas Governor Greg Abbott following their arrival at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Migrants arrived in New York City's Port Authority bus terminal had been greeted by our next guest, the commissioner for immigrant affairs at New York City's mayor's office, Manuel Castro. He's live outside Port Authority.

Thank you so much for being with us.

I do understand there is another bus of migrants arriving at this very moment, not at Port Authority. But just tell us what the process is.

MANUEL CASTRO, COMMISSIONER, NYC MAYORS OFFICE OF IMMIGRANT AFFAIRS: Yes, in fact, it's actually pulling up at Port Authority as we speak. We're here expecting two buses to arrive any minute. And, you know, as they arrive, we welcome asylum-seekers. You've probably seen me shake their hands because I think that's how any human being should be welcomed, received, especially those that have gone through so much.

Many of these asylum-seekers have crossed many borders. Some have crossed jungles to get here. Unfortunately, what we're finding is that these individuals and families arrive hungry, thirsty and some need medical attention.

So that is our priority to make sure these people are being supported and comforted because what they've been through is just so devastating. Unfortunately, what Governor Abbott is doing, using human beings as political pawns is very unfortunate. But New York City is rallying around asylum-seekers, making sure they're supported and welcomed in our city.

BERMAN: "The New Yorker" did a piece which highlighted the process of finding accommodations for these people, human beings. It says: Now that they're here and have nowhere else to go, they're being directed to local homeless shelters which are already under enormous strained, underfunded, politically neglected and overcrowded. The shelter system has been struggling for years to cope with the city's afford housing crisis and affordability crisis.

So, do you have the resources in the city to help take care of these people?

CASTRO: Yeah. In fact, you probably heard that we opened a number of different locations, 13 new locations to house asylum-seekers.

[08:20:01]

We're expanding capacity and adjusting as people are arriving. But this is actually quite different from what we've seen in the past week and New York City are used to welcoming tens of thousands of immigrants every year.

But what Governor Abbott is doing is really unfortunate. He's had these bus companies sign a non-disclosure agreement, making it really difficult for us to know when to expect asylum-seekers. Buses are arriving at all times of the day.

So, once they arrive, we talk to people, make sure they get to their actual destination.

In fact, just yesterday, we welcomed a bus with four individuals that wanted to stay in Texas and we needed to support them to get back down to Texas to meet with friends they have there. And so, they're confused often.

We also heard from another individual that was told if he didn't get on the bus, he would be deported. Of course, none of these families and individuals want to put their asylum-seeking claims at risk, so they're just doing what they're told to do by the governor of Texas.

But in New York City, we're adding capacity. Again, our non-profit community, our government agencies, everyone is rallying around these families because we know that they've unfortunately been used politically by Governor Abbott.

BERMAN: Have the strains on the system given you an appreciation for the situation in border states?

CASTRO: Well, you know, like I said, this is -- this is quite different, you know? We -- you know, we understand the needs, the especially needs that immigrants have. New York City is 60 percent immigrant or children of immigrant.

I, myself, am an immigrant. I crossed the border when I was 5 years old. I had the same experience with my family.

So, we're no stranger of the immigrant community with a variety of needs. So it's quite interesting when we're told that we -- in New York City, the home of the Statue of Liberty, of Ellis Island and millions of immigrants don't have this experience.

But, unfortunately, what we actually have here is a right wing political extremist crisis. Unfortunately, Governor Abbott is fomenting anti-immigrant and anti-Latino hate which impacts all of us, whether we arrive here today or decades ago, which is why we're responding this strongly to what Governor Abbott and others are doing.

We've heard of pejorative illegal use to describe asylum-seekers which is just a lie. Asylum-seekers go through a process, they have a background check, they're given documents at the border that allows them to be in the country as they seek asylum.

So, what is happening here is unfortunate. We're seeing language not used in decades. And we have to push back because so much is at risk.

We've learned from history that the use of human beings for political purposes should be a line not to be crossed. And what Governor Abbott is doing should not be tolerated and we should not tolerate others doing the same and following suit.

BERMAN: Manuel Castro, thank you for joining us this morning.

CASTRO: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, President Biden's move to cancel thousands of dollars in student debt for millions of Americans. What will the impact be on the economy.

A NEW DAY debate, next.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And a manhunt is under way in the shooting of a Washington Commanders player. We have some new video of the attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:50]

KEILAR: The White House is sparking plenty of debate with its student loan forgiveness plan. Under this plan announced last week by President Biden, those who make less than $125,000 a year will see up to $20,000 in debt forgiven. The plan also extends the pause on student loan payments until 2023.

So is this going to help, or is it going to hurt the economy? Let's talk about it with senior fellow at the American Enterprise

Institute, Beth Akers, and former section chief at the Federal Reserve and former senior economist at the Council of Economic Advisers, Claudia Sahm.

Beth to you first, does this help or hurt the economy?

BETH AKERS, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN ENTEPRISE INSTITUTE: This is going to hurt the economy in a mild way. A lot of people are upset because of the inflationary impact. To be honest, I think the inflationary impact will be mild. I'm more upset about this on policy terms and what it does to our higher education finance system.

KEILAR: OK. And we're going to talk about that here in just a second.

Claudia, how do you see this impacting the economy?

CLAUDIA SAHM, FOUNDER, STAY-AT-HOME MACRO (SAHM) CONSULTING AND SUBSTACK: I think we absolutely have to back up and understand the problem that we are trying to solve. Student loan forgiveness was never about boosting growth in the U.S. economy or fighting inflation next year. Before we went into the pandemic, one in ten borrowers were in default. That's a problem for those people now, and it is also a problem going forward. But again, growth and fighting inflation is never what this program was really focused as a problem to solve.

KEILAR: Beth, what do you say to that?

AKERS: Yeah. That's right. You know, we definitely needed (AUDIO GAP) several months ago in the economic downturn and from COVID. People are saying, let's cancel these student loans, this will be a stimulative event, giving people cash.

Now, at the same time, those same people seem to be arguing -- no, it's not an inflationary thing. This is all beside the point. We've got a system of higher ed finance that is not working that well. I think people are arguing on inflation because it's the issue du jour. It's what everyone is concerned about, but the reality is it's not core to the debate that we're having.

KEILAR: Yeah. Claudia, what do you think about that, because college affordability is really what this debate is so much about, and higher.