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New Day

Cases for and Against Debt Relief; TV Anchor Fired for Gray Hair; Far-Left Fizzles out in Primaries. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 30, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: You think about that because college affordability is really what this debate is so much about and higher education is expensive. That's why people find themselves saddled with debt that they sometimes cannot pay off.

CLAUDIA SAHM, FOUNDER, STAY-AT-HOME MACRO (SAHM) CONSULTING AND SUBSTACK: Right. The debate right now is about the fact that for many borrowers, many students who we promised education, getting more education was the way to get ahead, they do that. They put the hard work in. They get the degree and it doesn't pay off, right? This is really a problem about on the other end, not making enough money. Having degree programs that just didn't work, were not designed to have students succeed. They were designed to have the institutions profit.

Now, this is absolutely the first step. It absolutely has to be the first step in reforming the entire financing system and reforming the way that students pay, this college affordability. But, again, we have to start with the first problem is that these degrees are not paying off. We have millions of students in default. And then we keep working backwards, right? Like, this is not about making college affordable. this is about addressing a problem that has happened because college is not affordable. And it hasn't been paying off.

KEILAR: Beth.

BETH AKERS, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: You know, the best evidence that we have today tells us that investments in higher education pay huge dividends. The New York Federal Reserve Bank has a paper estimating there's a 15 percent rate of return on spending on associates and bachelor's degrees. Others estimate that bachelors degrees will yield an additional million dollars in earnings over the course of an individual's lifetime.

So, of course, that's not true for everyone. But on the whole, the typical borrower is actually doing quite well here, which is why I'm totally opposed to this being the intervention that we lead with because I'm all for us stepping in and saying, we need safety nets for borrowers because sometimes you borrow, you do what you're supposed to do, you get that degree but it doesn't pay off. We should have fixed those systems because, in fact, we already had them in place. They needed work. They weren't working that well. But my feeling is that the motivation for the step that was taken was not at all in policy, not at all to help people who are truly struggling, but rather entirely politically motivated.

KEILAR: So, what do you do, Beth, to tamp down those costs that really do not have downward pressure on them?

AKERS: I think we've got to start telling people in this economy that college is not the only pathway to the American dream, right? It used to be that you had to have the house, the white picket fence. Now you've got to have the degree hanging on the wall as well to achieve this American dream.

That's not the reality. We know that the majority of people in the economy are working and living and thriving without degrees. By sending the message that that's the only way, we're giving colleges a free ticket to raise prices year after year after year. And parents and students are willing to pay whatever price it is to get there. So, we've got to take pressure off demand for college if we want institutions to start stepping up and saying, all right, I'm going to charge you a price that's really in line with what it is that I'm going to deliver.

KEILAR: Claudia and Beth, I want to thank you so much for this very important conversation. We appreciate it.

AKERS: Thank you.

SAHM: Thank you.

KEILAR: So, Chris Rock says the Oscars have asked him to host again just months after the Will Smith slap. Why he compared his response to O.J. Simpson.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, Wendy is ditching the red and embracing her roots. We'll tell you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:37:42]

BERMAN: Wendy is going gray. In Canada, the fast-food giant has changed the hair color on its red-headed logo in support of veteran news anchor Lisa LaFlamme, who says she lost her job after going gray during the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA LAFLAMME, NEWS ANCHOR: I was blindsided. And I'm still shocked and saddened by Bell Media's decision. At 58, I still thought I'd have a lot more time to tell more of the stories that impact our daily lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Parent company Bell Media says the narrative that Lisa's age, gender or gray hair played in the decision is not the case, despite reports that an executive asked who approved the decision to, quote, let Lisa's hair go gray?

With me now, CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans, CNN business correspondent Rahel Solomon and CNN national correspondent Erica Hill.

So, I kind of feel like I want to step back and not be part -- people need to know - people need to know, there is a double standard in this business we have chosen.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes.

BERMAN: Anyone who says there isn't hasn't been paying attention here.

So, what do you see?

ROMANS: There's, everything you know, how you perform, how you interview, how you are in the field and how you look. And, in this case, this is someone with a 35-year track record, who just won a major Canadian broadcasting award back in April, who just most recently covered the papal apology for what happened to the children in that country. She has covered Iraq, Afghanistan, elections, Olympics. It goes on and on and on. Yet, a business decision, not performance, but a business decision was why she was told that she would be leaving her career after 35 years. A business decision that apparently looks like the way she appears.

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the way she appears and/or her age, right? The combination of the two.

And, you're right, there is a double standard. In this business, and we know it, a man with gray hair, white hair, even a little bit of a belly is seen as having gravitas and being distinguished. Women can't do that. And, look, we know that, right? We've signed up for this. And yet I would hope that I get to 58. Right, I'm 46 now and, yes, I do color my hair and some day maybe I will go gray and if I'm lucky I will look as fabulous as Lisa LaFlamme does.

ROMANS: She looks fabulous.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: She looks great.

ROMANS: Yes, she looks good.

HILL: I'm not there yet, but I shouldn't have to be, right? And it shouldn't matter what your hair color is. Sadly, it does. And I wouldn't be surprised, too, if part of this was money, right? Oh, you make too much money.

[08:40:01]

And yet, I bet she makes less than her male counterparts.

SOLOMON: That's an interesting point.

ROMANS: That's a really good point. SOLOMON: And, also, we should say that there has been so much public support for this anchor, both from companies like Dove, like "Sports Illustrated," like Wendy's, as we pointed out. But also just in terms of the public. I mean I think managers clearly need to read the room and get with the times that people are tired of seeing cookie cutter images of what women are supposed to look like.

And beyond just appearances, I think it's important to note that diversity impacts everyone and benefits everyone in a workplace, not just diversity in the traditional sense, although, of course, that helps, but diversity of thought, having different experiences, different perspectives. Research has shown that that leads to more innovative workplaces, that leads to - prevents group think. That leads to more agile companies that are better prepared to deal with the problems of today. And I think we miss that when we just sort of minimize people in terms of how good they look, although, to repeat the obvious, she looks fantastic.

ROMANS: It was pretty cool. "Sports Illustrated" put -- it had Maye Musk on its cover recently. You know, that's Elon Musk's mom. And she has gray hair and looks fantastic. I mean "Sports Illustrated" cover of a woman with gray hair in a swimsuit. I mean, so these companies are trying to tap into that idea that things have changed. It's not just the young, skinny, blonde 25-year-old who is what women relate to.

HILL: Right.

ROMANS: Women relate to a lot of different - a lot of different body types and ages.

HILL: And women have more buying power now too.

ROMANS: Oh, yes.

HILL: I mean there was a time not that long ago when a woman couldn't open a checking account. She couldn't have a credit card without her husband signing off on it. And yet, now, right, this coveted demographic of 25 to 54 for TV advisers, and even beyond, they want to see, to your point, Rahel, we want to see ourselves reflected and we're going to use our dollars in that way. So, also, these companies are not stupid.

SOLOMON: (INAUDIBLE) voices on social media.

ROMANS: Forty is the new 30. Fifth is the new 40.

Serena Williams last night, what is she, 41 years old. I'm just saying, like, it's all - it's all changing. It's all changing fast.

BERMAN: Can I tell - this is a true story. Wasn't a supervisor. Wasn't someone I worked for. But a few years ago, before I started going gray naturally, it's happening pretty rapidly now.

SOLOMON: You too look great, John Berman.

ROMANS: Salt and pepper.

BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE). But I want to tell you, it was suggested to me that I should dye my hair gray -

ROMANS: What?

BERMAN: So that - yes, so that I had more gravitas because, just what you said there, there was a sense that for me, as a - as a dude -

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: The gray hair would be better.

HILL: Yes. You look too young.

ROMANS: You're still like the young 25-year-old boy on the bus, is that what they're saying?

BERMAN: Well, no, but that -- yes, exactly. It just - it just shows you that there is a double standard in this business. And I don't - you know, I don't know what happened in Canada that, you know, I -- we're not going to go know the inside workings of that story, but there is -

ROMANS: And probably never will. But I will say, it was a huge screw- up by whoever made that decision because the negative blowback and just how petty and shortsighted they look when you have all of these viewers who have come to her defense and companies that are basically poking fun at maybe a bunch of suits in a back room were, like, well, she doesn't break through for us anymore. Let's get rid of her. Like, that's just - it's just gross. And it's so 1980s. Ah.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: All right, changing the subject here.

Chris Rock says that the Oscars went to him and asked him to host next year, which he has declined. And then he made a joke, which I'm - which I'm not going to repeat, but it was about Nicole Brown Simpson.

So, Rahel, what do you think we're seeing here?

SOLOMON: I mean I think the joke was absolutely cringe.

I think this is just one of those bizarre stories that just continues to get more bizarre. And, you know, I hate to say, is there a winner here? I mean I think the only winner here is the Oscars, which continues to benefit from this publicity. I mean "The New York Times" did a story about viewership, which, as we know, has been trailing for quite some time for the Oscars.

But in terms of their social media impact, "The New York Times" put out -- drove 22.7 million interactions after that slap last year on social media. That was 139 percent increase from the year before.

So, this is just a story that just will not go away and seems to benefit only one organization.

ROMANS: I mean talking about a spectrum of abuse from a woman being murdered to being slapped on - I mean it's like all just so crass. But he was doing this on a Saturday night in probably a dark and liquefied club in Phoenix, comedy club. So, know your audience, I guess. I mean I'm not surprised that there would be a crass joke. But when it makes the light of day on Monday morning in the newspapers, or Tuesday morning in the newspapers, it does look - it does look just bad.

HILL: Yes. I will second on that part.

And from the perspective of the Oscars, I think you're right, the Academy is the one that's winning. Why wouldn't you ask him to come back, right? Best he says is yes. Best he says is no. They sort of win either way in showing that they put it out there.

SOLOMON: And we're still talking about it.

ROMANS: Still talking about it.

HILL: And we're still talking about it. And maybe more people will, too.

BERMAN: I will say, this joke aside, Chris Rock isn't shying away from this anymore. It seems like he's apging up to some big moment here, yes?

SOLOMON: I mean, I guess we'll see, right, because Will Smith did that - that, you know, Facetime where he apologized. And, you know, he sort of pulled back away from whether he was accepting it or not. I don't know. I mean it certainly - I guess you could put - you could argue it benefits him, too, his popularity, his publicity, because we continue to talk about that, although, of course, he was the victim of a very public slap.

BERMAN: Christine, Rahel, Erica, three wonderful journalists, thank you for being here at the table with me.

ROMANS: (INAUDIBLE).

HILL: I love your hair, John, just (INAUDIBLE).

ROMANS: You look good, John. You look really good.

SOLOMON: I third that.

BERMAN: Yes, look, the thing is, no one cares how I look. The point is, no one cares at all. A guy could do almost anything and it won't be an issue.

[08:45:01]

ROMANS: Maybe a little Chapstick. A little Chapstick now (ph).

BERMAN: Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. SOLOMON: Keeping him honest, Christine Romans.

BERMAN: Dry mouth here.

A dire water crisis is underway in Jackson, Mississippi. State officials saying water and sewer services to 250,000 state residents are on the brink of collapse.

KEILAR: Plus, which political party is best at keeping their extremist wings at bay. Your reality check is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Exactly ten weeks left until the midterm elections, and races are heating up across the country. So is America's partisan divide, forcing candidates to the extremes.

John Avlon with our "Reality Check."

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: So, there's a feedback loop between the far left and the far right that's often used to justify the other's rise. And because politics is perception, Americans see both parties similarly extreme. But to a large extent, this is a fight in a hall of mirrors, all partisan distortion driven by emotion. The fact is that the far left and the far right do not have remotely the same political strength in their parties and this year's primary provide the receipts.

Now, this cycle we've seen plenty of evidence that Trump's election lies are the GOP's litmus test. One recent analysis by "The Washington Post" found that 39 election deniers won their House primaries, and that's just in six key swing states.

By comparison, the far left is falling far short.

[08:50:00]

Now, the so-called squad may play a starring role in Republican attack ads, but they're more famous than powerful. And by my count there are just seven House Democrats who officially support defunding the police, but 147 Republicans voted to overturn the election after the attack on our Capitol.

Extremes are usually louder than they are large. And, get this, just 12 percent of Democrats and Dem-leaning independents describe themselves as members of the progressive left. That's according to a 2021 survey by Pew, which translates to around 7 percent of registered voters.

And with any sense of perspective, the mainstream of Democratic voters and party leadership is decidedly on the center left, not the far left. Remember, that's how Joe Biden won the 2020 election, by ignoring the social media distortion field and instead appealing to actual Democratic primary voters who tend to be older, more moderate, and more working class than Twitter filibusters would suggest.

Now with the 2022 House primaries, we've got a new metric, so let's dig in to the data.

Now, in New York's 17th district, Representative Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez endorsed progressive State Senator Alessandra Biaggi, to challenge Congressman Sean Patrick Maloney, head of the DCCC. But Biaggi lost big-time, two to one. So too with Max Rose, a moderate military veteran and former congressman from Staten Island who easily out polled a progressive primary challenger.

But, of course, it's not just a New York thing. For example, in Michigan's 11th District, Dem. Rep. Haley Stevens beat the more progressive Representative Andy Levin. In Ohio, progressive firebrand and former State Senator Nina Turner lost a rematch against the more moderate Congresswoman Shontel Brown. In North Carolina's 1st District, State Senator Don Davis, former mayor, military veteran and pastor, defeated a primary candidate who tried to run to his left. In Illinois, 7th, a much hyped generational rematch fell after - fell flat after community organizer Kina Collins lost to incumbent Danny Davis by around 7 points, which was admittedly better than the 45- point trouncing she took two years ago. While in Texas, the last remaining anti-abortion Democrat in the House, Henry Cuellar, narrowly defeated a progressive challenge from Jessica Cisneros.

But here's a really surprising national stat. According to Brookings, only 34 percent of the nearly 500 Democrats who have run for House or Senate this cycle call themselves progressive, with only about a quarter running on positions like defund the police or green new deal, while less than 2 percent identify as Democratic socialists, like AOC and Bernie Sanders.

This is not just about optics, though. Even in California, we've seen Democrats policing their extremes as in the recall votes against former San Francisco DA Chesa Boudin and ideologs in the San Francisco School Board.

Now, there are exceptions. Now, for example, in Oregon, centrist Democratic Congressman Kurt Schrader lost his primary to a more progressive challenger, despite an endorsement from President Biden. Likewise, progressive Pennsylvania state rep. Summer Lee won a nomination for a Pittsburgh area House seat and working families party backed candidates have been racking up wins in local races and state legislative primaries, which could impact bigger ticket races over time.

But, bottom line, progressives have more cultural influence than political power right now. And so despite all the noise about the far left taking over the Democratic Party, the 2022 primary results showed that's not rooted in reality.

And if you're still trying to get your head around what's happening, just listen to the Ragein' Cajun, James Carville. What's going on, he said, is simply that the Democrats who actually vote, are significantly more pragmatic than the Democrats who talk.

And that's your "Reality Check."

KEILAR: John Avlon, thank you. AVLON: Thank you.

KEILAR: Just revealed, how the nation's biggest wireless phone carriers are keeping tabs on you, your location, for years.

BERMAN: So, you're saying there's a chance. What Serena Williams said when asked if the U.S. Open will truly be her final tournament.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:58:48]

BERMAN: It's time for "5 Things to Know for Your New Day."

Officials in Jackson, Mississippi, are scrambling to distribute water to 180,000 residents after the city's main water treatment facility failed. The governor says there's not enough water to flush toilets or fight fires. All public schools have shifted to virtual learning.

KEILAR: Police releasing a surveillance image of two suspects wanted in the shooting of Washington Commanders running back Brian Robinson who was shot Sunday during an apparent robbery attempt. Police recovered the vehicle used by the suspects to flee the scene.

And community members of the Uvalde, Texas, school district meeting say they're concerned about the police officers who are still on staff as a planned evaluation of the officers hasn't started yet. The new school year in Uvalde is just over a week away.

BERMAN: According to the FCC, the nation's largest wireless phone carriers not only track your location when you make a call, they routinely keep that data for years and provide it to law enforcement for government officials upon request.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERENA WILLIAMS, 23-TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMPION: Yes, I've been pretty vague about it, right? Yes. Umm, I'm going to stay vague, because you never know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Serena Williams keeping the door open when asked if the U.S. Open will actually be her final tournament.

[09:00:01]

This as Williams advances to the second round after winning her match last night.

BERMAN: Those are the "5 Things to Know for Your New Day." More on these stories all day on CNN and cnn.com. And don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning.

Carolyn Manno, who was there, says, it's just hard. Serena just doesn't want to have to say goodbye. And maybe that's what's driving the vagueness now.

CNN's coverage continues right now.