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DOJ: Trump Team Moved And Hid Documents To "Obstruct" Probe; Biden Indirectly Slams Graham For Warning Of "Riots In Streets"; Small Piece Of Plastic Can Turn Pistol Into Machine Gun In Seconds. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 31, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:30:00]

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That he actually won it, to believe in conspiracy theories -- many of them to march on the Capitol armed and many of them were charged on went to jail.

Now he's convincing many of his supporters that the FBI is corrupt and that maybe violence is the answer. So that is how this directly impacts people and that is why it is hugely important to get to the bottom of this because it does impact your life.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to take a quick break here, so stand by.

But one point I do want to make that follows up on that may answer your question, there have been two theories of this from the beginning -- very beginning, Scott. One is that the Justice Department just wanted to get these documents out --

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Right.

BERMAN: -- of Mar-a-Lago. And that the other part was that well, if they're going to prosecute, that's a separate decision that they can make after that. But getting them out might have been of paramount importance. That is one of the theories that's out there.

But as I said, don't go anywhere because we have much more to discuss. Why a Pennsylvania Senate candidate, John Fetterman, says he will not attend a debate next week.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, CNN uncovering just how much it costs for Texas to bus migrants to the nation's capital and to New York City. We have new reporting on that this morning.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:35:08]

BERMAN: President Biden had some harsh words for Republicans during his first of three speeches in Pennsylvania this week, seeming to rebuke Sen. Lindsey Graham after comments he made saying there will be violence if Donald Trump was charged with mishandling classified documents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No one expects politics to be a patty cake. Sometimes it's mean as hell. But the idea you turn on a television and see senior senators and congressmen saying if such and such happens there will be blood in the street. Where the hell are we?

Now it's sickening to see the new attacks on the FBI, threatening the life of law enforcement agents and their families for simply carrying out the law and doing their job. Look, I want to say this as clear as I can. There's no place in this country -- no place for endangering the lives of law enforcement -- no place -- none, never, period.

So let me say this to my MAGA Republican friends in Congress. Don't tell me to support law enforcement if you won't condemn what happened on the sixth. Don't tell me. You're either on the side of a mob or the side of the police. You can't be pro-law enforcement and pro- insurrection. You can't be a party of law and order and call the people who attacked the police on January 6 patriots. You can't do it.

I am determined to ban assault weapons in this country -- determined. I did it once before and I'll do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, let's talk about this. And joining the discussion, CNN political analyst, Natasha Alford.

Natasha, that from Joe Biden, the president, on Tuesday. And on Thursday, back to Pennsylvania to give a speech in prime time that the White House says will be on the soul of the nation. Why are we hearing this, this week?

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, VICE PRESIDENT OF DIGITAL CONTENT AND SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, THEGRIO: I think there's a lot of passion. Did you see the passion? Were you moved by it?

AVLON: (INAUDIBLE).

ALFORD: And I think -- excuse me -- I think President Biden understands that this is really the only strong point he has right now to hit home this idea that democracy is at stake, right? The heart of the nation -- this is what we're fighting for. And because the times are not normal. Extremism is on the rise even though you have polls that debate the degree to which it is on the rise.

So, I think Lindsey Graham had a different responsibility, right? There's a different level of care that you take when you make comments like that. And so, President Biden had an opportunity to jump right on that.

CUPP: It's so -- I mean, it's so clever but it's also so true. I was thinking back when I was in my twenties living in the city. George W. Bush -- BERMAN: Three years ago when you were in your twenties.

CUPP: Five minutes ago.

George W. Bush was president --

JENNINGS: Salad days.

CUPP: -- and I got called for jury duty.

The salad days, right.

I got called for jury duty and in jury selection, they're asking about politics -- and the case was over an assault on a cop. And they said so, Ms. Cupp, you're a Republican. Does that mean you're for law and order? And I said yes and I was summarily dismissed because I -- you know, they thought that might mean I was sympathetic to the cop. But that's how synonymous law and order and Republicans have been for so long.

Cut to the insurrection when the supporters of a Republican president used an American flag to assault a police officer.

For Joe Biden to take this back -- the language of patriotism, law and order, the Constitution -- things that I think Democrats ceded to Republicans for so many years is important because it's right, but also because those are important things. Those are the reason I became a Republican -- the Constitution, law and order. Loving this country.

And it's hard for Republicans to say they believe in all of that despite all the evidence. I think he's doing a really important thing.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. It sounds so old- fashioned.

CUPP: Do you agree, Scott?

BERMAN: Well, I was -- I was -- I was watching Scott.

JENNINGS: Well, I wanted to --

BERMAN: Scott is sitting there silently.

JENNINGS: Well, I wanted to -- I wanted to hear --

CUPP: Because he knows I'm right.

JENNINGS: -- from Mr. Avlon because I know he has strong feelings about this.

But here's what I took away from Joe Biden's speech. Number one, he has no choice but to try to take this language back because he runs a political party that has come squarely down on the side of blame the police first. You've had Democrat mayors and prosecutors all over this country who have made horrific choices when it comes to their rhetoric and their policies on criminal justice in dealing with the cops. So he has no choice. This isn't some --

CUPP: No. He could double down on that. I agree with you that that's been their history.

JENNINGS: And so, he --

CUPP: He is deciding not to.

JENNINGS: He has -- he has no choice.

Number two, I'm heartened to hear him finally come out and take a strong stance against people who might threaten political violence because the government is going to do something that they don't like. I wish -- I only wish his passion wasn't so newfound because he had very little to say when people were out promising riots and violence if the Supreme Court does this, that, or the other. So I'm glad he's finally come around to this.

[07:40:06]

AVLON: But Scott, that's not true.

ALFORD: Did they overturn --

AVLON: That's not even true.

ALFORD: Did they try to overturn --

AVLON: No, it's not.

ALFORD: -- an election?

AVLON: This is something -- sorry. You know --

JENNINGS: Real slow, John.

AVLON: No.

JENNINGS: Real slow.

AVLON: No. I'm sorry. He consistently, both in the wake of Roe and in the summer of 2016, said there's no place for violence in peaceful protests. So --

CUPP: He said fund the police, not defund the police.

AVLON: That's right.

CUPP: He's one of the few.

ALFORD: He's been pretty clear on it.

AVLON: That's right.

So look, I think the larger issue here is what he's condemning isn't just this background noise and the fact there is an opportunity, as S.E. said, to take back defensive law enforcement. But when Lindsey Graham says infamously if you prosecute the law fairly without favor there could be riots. You know, you've made the --

BERMAN: He said will.

AVLON: Yes, there will be riots. That's a threat. You've made the point that you're worried that the DOJ might not prosecute Donald Trump, but other folks in the Republican Party -- senators -- people who definitionally should know better are saying they're afraid they will enforce the law without fear or favor when it comes to the ex- president. That's a fundamental contradiction with the idea of law and order.

JENNINGS: Yes. Look, I agree. I think Lindsey Graham's choice of words and rhetoric there was poor. Now, it is true he then walked it back and said I'm not endorsing violence, which he should have done. But he should have never gone down that road in the first place. Because look, we're on probation over this. I mean, January 6 was a riot --

CUPP: Yes.

JENNINGS: -- and it was Republicans. And so, we can't be flippant with our rhetoric.

But I fundamentally disagree with you that the Democratic Party has been as fast and as upstanding as you are making them out to be when it comes to condemning violence from people who hold their ideology.

CUPP: But -- so why wouldn't you -- but why wouldn't --

AVLON: I'm talking about the president --

CUPP: -- you congratulate him for getting here -- why wouldn't you congratulate him and welcome him for getting here now when the president --

JENNINGS: Well, I'm happy --

CUPP: -- the former president still hasn't gotten that.

JENNINGS: I'm happy when any senator finds a church.

CUPP: You don't seem happy. You don't seem happy.

JENNINGS: I mean -- I mean, look -- but the -- but the reality is --

BERMAN: He was up late.

JENNINGS: But the reality is this rhetoric is not borne, in my opinion, of some deep-seated desire to bring this country together. It is a political necessity because his party's policies on criminal justice are politically damaging.

BERMAN: Not inconsistent with what Joe Biden has said in the past, as Natasha and John just said right there. I want to bring up another subject. In Pennsylvania, where Joe Biden was and will be again and again, is a crucial Senate race that could determine -- help determine the power of the Senate. John Fetterman, lieutenant governor, is a Democrat. Mehmet Oz running as the Republican nominee.

John Fetterman just declined to attend a debate next week. Now, some of the context here is, of course, John Fetterman suffered a stroke over the summer and is still, in some ways, recovering from that stroke. That's not why he's saying he's not going. He's saying he's not going because Mehmet Oz is saying some things that are unfair there.

Natasha, what do you see here, and how much of a risk is this for John Fetterman not to debate as much and as early as Mehmet Oz is asking?

ALFORD: Well, I actually worry more about the Oz campaign being a little bit careful with the way that they are approaching this, right, because it's getting pretty nasty. And you have to be careful to not upset voters who are actually really empathic with the Fetterman campaign, right?

A recent poll was conducted and a lot of potential voters in Pennsylvania said that they don't mind that he had a stroke, right? That's actually not a weak point for them. So to continue to hammer home on this makes them seem insensitive.

AVLON: That's a separate issue, right? I mean --

CUPP: No.

AVLON: -- I don't know why it's so hard in our politics today to apply the same standards no matter which political party --

CUPP: Right.

AVLON: -- is in question. You give Republicans a lot of grief for trying to duck debates.

CUPP: Yes.

AVLON: I know I do.

CUPP: Me, too.

AVLON: And you know what? You've got to do the same thing when a Democrat does it for whatever reason.

Now, his health may be an issue in this election and should not be the subject of low blows on Twitter, which are then disavowed by the candidate because that's nonsense. But John Fetterman -- anyone running for Senate has an obligation to debate his opponent in a free -- in a way -- in front of his would-be constituents.

CUPP: And it's the reason he's saying -- what he's saying --

ALFORD: But he says that he will, though. He said that he will. He said he will but he's just not --

CUPP: Here's the contradiction in this, and I -- like John, I'm calling balls and strikes here.

AVLON: That's right.

CUPP: The contradiction in this is that he is saying Mehmet Oz is not taking this seriously enough. He's making a farce of it. John Fetterman got Snooki to campaign for him. His campaign has been one of memes and mean tweets --

ALFORD: It's hilarious.

CUPP: -- and it's been very clever. It's been very effective.

ALFORD: Yes.

CUPP: But I don't buy that you're the tough guy who answers all the tough questions but won't go because this isn't being taken seriously enough. Come on.

JENNINGS: I mean, this -- both parties I think believe the Senate majority runs through Pennsylvania. So this is not like a throwaway fringe race. I mean --

CUPP: Right.

JENNINGS: -- both parties are all in on Pennsylvania. And to deprive the people of Pennsylvania the serious campaign, which is what I think Fetterman is actually doing right now, is astounding. They can't have a debate with Dr. Oz right now -- otherwise, they would be having one -- because they do believe they have an advantage. They think Fetterman is in good shape on his image and they think Oz is upside- down.

So it would -- it might actually be of some value to have that debate. They think they're on offense on issues. So they can't do it at the moment. So I understand the technical imperative --

[07:45:01]

AVLON: Right.

JENNINGS: -- but his health and his ability to execute the job duties of senator -- it's absolutely something that could be and should be discussed in this campaign. I think it could be done in a responsible way, not in a flippant way. But I think it's got to be something voters are talking about.

AVLON: But you agree that all Republican candidates should also debate their opponents no matter what the tactical --

JENNINGS: Well, I'm pro-debate but I'm also -- I'm also an old campaign operative and I understand -- I under --

BERMAN: Yes. AVLON: No. That's why -- that's why --

JENNINGS: And I -- I'll just tell you, inside of campaigns these decisions -- these conversations happen. Is a debate to our advantage?

AVLON: That's right.

CUPP: Yes.

JENNINGS: Are we ahead? Are we behind?

CUPP: Yes.

JENNINGS: Is this our candidate's strength? Are we better off running this on T.V.? Are we better off running this kind of campaign?

And obviously, the Fetterman people have made the decision they're better off running memes and hiding in the basement as opposed to that.

BERMAN: That's different than what is best for the people --

CUPP: Voters.

BERMAN: -- who are voting --

AVLON: That's right.

BERMAN: -- who just want as much information in theory as they can possibly get.

CUPP: Right.

BERMAN: You guys, thank you all for being here.

ALFORD: Oh, you're welcome.

BERMAN: Very nice to see you this morning.

We have a CNN exclusive on how pieces of plastic can turn almost any semiautomatic weapon into a machine gun.

KEILAR: And thousands of people in Jackson, Mississippi waking up to yet another day of unsafe tap water or no running water at all. The mayor of Jackson is going to join NEW DAY ahead.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:50:32]

KEILAR: This morning, the number of shootings involving automatic weapons is skyrocketing across America and it's largely because of the widespread availability of this. It is a small piece of plastic that can turn almost any gun into a weapon of war.

CNN's Drew Griffin has the exclusive report. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are the size of a Lego, come in colors of the rainbow, and in seconds, can turn America's most popular handgun from firing like this --

(Gunshots)

GRIFFIN: -- to this.

(Machine gun gunshots)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No shit -- whoa.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): This is the gun range of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives where an undercover agent shows how a tiny device called an auto sear can turn almost any gun into a machine gun.

(Gunshots)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy smokes.

GRIFFIN: This is Houston where a team of police officers tried to serve a warrant, body cameras on.

BILL JEFFREY, HOUSTON POLICE OFFICER SHOT AND KILLED WHILE SERVING AN ARREST WARRANT: Deon, you need to step out. It's Houston police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Deon inside?

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Thirty years' experience conducting 2,500 previous major offender arrests couldn't help a cop named Bill Jeffrey.

B. JEFFREY: Deon, it's Houston police. Let's do this the easy way.

(Gunshots)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get an ambulance! Get an ambulance!

GRIFFIN (on camera): Your father didn't stand a chance.

LACIE JEFFREY, DAUGHTER OF FALLE HOUSTON POLICE OFFICER: No. He was completely blindsided and there is nothing that any of them could have done to change the outcome. Everything was done the way it was supposed to, but this guy ambushed them.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): What the officers couldn't see was the multi- convicted felon hiding in a dark apartment, holding a pistol that was turned into a weapon of war.

(Gunshots)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): In seconds, he fired 30 rounds. Officer Jeffrey died. A police sergeant, also hit, crawled for safety and survived. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarge, you good? You good?

POLICE SERGEANT: No, I'm hit. I'm hit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're going at Bill. Somebody get Bill.

GRIFFIN (on camera): What was your reaction when you found out what this criminal had in his hands?

L. JEFFREY: Disgust, disbelief, anger. We do not live in a war zone. There is no need for us to have these automatic weapons on the streets of Houston -- anywhere in the United States.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): But there is demand. Cheap, illegal pieces first imported from China were being sold easily over the internet. When ATF and Customs cracked down, smuggling began across the southern border. Now, thanks to cheap 3D printers like this and how-to demonstrations on YouTube, making machine guns is a simple do-it- yourself project, says Earl Griffith of ATF.

EARL GRIFFITH, CHIEF, ATF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION TECHNOLOGY DIVISION: I am not computer savvy but one of the guys says it's easy. Watch this YouTube. I watched the YouTube and in a matter of 15 minutes, I was able to do it myself the first time.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): He's not kidding. We searched YouTube and found this.

AULKII: What's up YouTube? This is Aulkii here.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): A how-to demonstration --

AULKII: Once you get it 3D printed --

GRIFFIN (voice-over): -- that was still up on YouTube's platform --

AULKII: Bada bing, bada boom. That is how you install and remove a Glock auto sear.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): -- and getting hundreds of thousands of views even though bada bing bada boom, as he says -- the guy was arrested by ATF months earlier, charged with possessing, making, and transferring machine guns. He's pleaded not guilty. YouTube took the videos down right after we asked about them.

Call them auto sears, switches, whatever. They are everywhere and spreading. The ATF seized 1,500 machine gun conversion devices last year. That is five times as many as the year before.

Griffith says police departments across the country have confiscated modified machine guns but many don't even know it.

GRIFFITH: A lot of them have never seen some of these devices like laying here.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Right. GRIFFITH: And when we tell them about it they go back into their evidence vault and they look and check and they find this stuff.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): More and more, this stuff is being found in the slaughter it leaves in its wake.

This January, three more Houston officers were fired upon -- all three wounded -- when a career criminal opened fire with a machine gun-style pistol. When they arrested him --

POLICE OFFICER: Hands straight up!

GRIFFIN (voice-over): -- they found more machine gun parts and 3D printers.

In Sacramento this April, a massacre on the city's downtown streets. Six dead, a dozen injured. One of the guns in the shootout, according to police, had an auto sear or switch to make it fully automatic.

[07:55:03]

GRIFFIN (on camera): All of these in the last 24 hours --

TOM CHITTUM, VICE PRESIDENT OF ANALYTICS, SHOTSPOTTER: Four rounds --

KAITLIN PARKER (PH), SPOTSHOOTER: Yes.

CHITTUM: -- nine rounds, 10 rounds, 18 rounds, 27 rounds.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Tom, that's, like, Tuesday.

PARKER: Yes.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Tuesday in America -- we're having this?

CHITTUM: You should come here on the weekend.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): This is ShotSpotter. It locates gunfire for police by listening to a network of microphones across American cities. And more and more, those microphones are picking up automatic fire.

CHITTUM: The rate of fire. The number of rounds being fired in only a few seconds is very serious. Innocent bystanders are being hit by rounds that weren't intended for them.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Since 2019, the incidents of automatic gunfire picked up by ShotSpotter have increased from roughly 400 to 5,600 just last year.

Just spend a few moments at Kaitlan Parker's (PH) monitoring station and you can hear the havoc.

PARKER: So, all of these ones that I'm showing you here are full automatic incidents starting from the release of three rounds going all the way up into 30 rounds. GRIFFIN (on camera): Thirty rounds?

PARKER: Thirty rounds came from Baltimore, Maryland.

GRIFFIN (on camera): In Baltimore. This was sometime on Tuesday or Wednesday.

PARKER: Yes, sir. This was 4:00 p.m. yesterday.

GRIFFIN (on camera): When you sit here and listen to this and realize what's going on out on the streets, what are you thinking?

PARKER: You don't believe it until you hear it, and it's just said. Unfortunately, with a lot of these shootings, there was a victim behind these.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): In fact, those sounds you heard from Baltimore were bullets hitting two people, including a 14-year-old boy.

Back in Texas, Lacie Jeffrey is trying to do something in her father's memory.

L. JEFFREY: So we are just trying to get lawmakers to look into this and just change 10 words to make it to where these switches fall under a felony offense.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): She wants Texas to treat possession of these modified weapons like the federal government does, as a felony.

GRIFFIN (on camera): What's the reception been?

L. JEFFREY: Nothing.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): She hasn't heard back from a single lawmaker.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Why do you think that is?

L. JEFFEREY: I think that, especially in Texas with the Second Amendment, people are scared to touch upon it. I don't understand why this isn't important enough. We have lost so many officers. So many civilians are even being caught in the crossfire. How many people have to be affected by these before you realize that a change needs to happen?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Brianna and John, the autopsy on her dad, Officer Bill Jeffrey, showed he was hit more than a dozen times in just those seconds in that doorway. When she asks who in America needs a gun that can do that, the answer really is nobody.

KEILAR: No, it certainly is. Drew Griffin, thank you for that excellent report.

Next, we're going to have more on the remarkable revelations from the Justice Department on the search at Mar-a-Lago, including the image showing top secret, highly-classified documents.

(COMMERCIAL)

BERMAN: Right now at an American capital city, tens of thousands of people are waking up to day three without clean, running water. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. The water in Jackson, Mississippi is not safe for drinking, bathing, even brushing your teeth after the failure of the city's main water treatment plant.

KEILAR: It's actually forcing businesses.