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Videos: Roger Stone Calls For Violence Ahead Of 2020 Election; Regaining Your Smell And Taste After Covid; Potential Rule Change On "Jeopardy!" Sparks Debate Among Fans. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 27, 2022 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Scott Jennings is here, and CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp here as well.

You've known Roger Stone a long time, Mark.

MARK MCKINNON, CREATOR AND CO-HOST, "THE CIRCUS" ON SHOWTIME, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, GEORGE W. BUSH AND MCCAIN CAMPAIGNS: Yes. I first ran into him in the '80s when he was working with Trump and the Casino Association of New Jersey. And it felt like a mob operation then and it turns out it was. When somebody tells you they are, believe them.

And as we heard there and as Steve Bannon said on our show, there's no surprise what happened January 6. People like Stone and Bannon set the table for it. I mean, what we're learning now is it was not some random event of January 6. It was preplanned and preset by people like Roger Stone. Shoot to kill.

BERMAN: Natasha?

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, VICE PRESIDENT DIGITAL CONTENT AND SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, THEGRIO: Yes, and the rhetoric of attack, attack, attack, right? I think about the fact that Trump sat for three hours and did nothing. And, you know, as we get these little details we put it together and it shows that this was very much intentional.

It's politics to the extreme right now and I think it's really scary because it harkens back to a time where at post-reconstruction, right, people used violence to resist progress. And so it's -- again, it's a reflection of Trump's team being willing to do anything at all to maintain power.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And this is not -- this has nothing to do with right, left, Republican, Democrat. I also have known Roger Stone and this is peak Roger Stone.

By way of anecdote, in 2009, he summoned me to a dinner -- just he and I -- because he wanted me to run for New York City mayor. Not to win, just to, quote, "F S up" -- "F" stuff up, right? Sort of like the William F. Buckley Jr. thing where you're not going to win, you're just going to mess with stuff. And that's always been his raison d'etre -- let's mess with stuff. And what's important here is that he saw in 2020 an opportunity for

the judges -- the Trump-loyal judges. He thought they might be corrupt enough. For Trump supporters, he thought they might be violent enough. He had a reading of 2020 where he thought all of his disruption could really work and take hold.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CONTRIBUTING COLUMNIST, USA TODAY, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: We had another clip last night where Stone was saying he was arguing for blanket pardons for all of the congressmen.

MCKINNON: The day after.

JENNINGS: Yes. And -- but then he said I think the president's for it but it's the -- what did he say -- lily-livered White House counsel and the staff. I wonder how that went over at Mar-a-Lago because the idea that the president was not man enough to overrule the staff is kind of what Stone was arguing. I mean, the power to pardon is absolute. It has nothing to do with the staff and the U.S. Constitution. I wonder when they see that how that's going to land.

BERMAN: Just one quick question about all this. Another January 6 committee hearing is tomorrow and I imagine this could be a part of it, Mark. What do you think they need to do in this hearing tomorrow -- the last one, certainly, before the election?

MCKINNON: Well, connect the dots and make it clear as they have over the course of the hearings that it was preplanned. This was not some random event. And that there was communication by people like Roger Stone coordinating people like the Oath Keepers, and that there was communication between the White House and what went on that day.

BERMAN: All right, news out of Kentucky, right?

CUPP: What?

JENNINGS: News you can use.

BERMAN: News you -- Scott Jennings perks up --

CUPP: You know that place.

BERMAN: -- right there.

There was an event at the McConnell Center, which you -- of which you are --

JENNINGS: A graduate.

BERMAN: -- a graduate of the McConnell Center -- with Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell and Arizona Democratic Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, where Mitch McConnell said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): She is, in my view -- and I've told her this before -- the most effective first-term senator I've seen in my time in the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: That's great (PH).

BERMAN: So if you were on social media yesterday you saw Democrats going uh-oh. You know, Mitch McConnell saying nice stuff about Kyrsten Sinema -- what does that mean?

ALFORD: Yes. Well, she is effective at essentially reporting -- supporting Republican agendas, right? She was effective at preventing Democrats from moving legislation forward.

And it's so interesting because Arizonans are really united in disliking her if you look at every single demographic -- women, college-educated, non-college-educated. So she stands for bipartisanship in theory, but in practicality -- like, common sense -- everyday people don't see what she's actually getting done by defending the supposed bipartisanship. Is she really effective is the question.

BERMAN: But Scott, you've got sources familiar with the thinking of Mitch McConnell who have -- who have talked about Krysten Sinema, right? What does he say?

JENNINGS: Oh, he's -- he has told me she one of the, if not the most interesting senators he's ever served with. And you heard what he said about her effectiveness. He has been quite impressed with her since she came to the Senate.

And I think it has a lot to do with her willingness to defend the institution. I mean, there are a lot of people on the Democratic Party who would love to destroy the institution, throw it out the window, kill all the rules to get what they want now. You know, instant coffee ruined the world. And she and her willingness to defend the institution to a guy like McConnell who has been an institutionalist to the core of the U.S. Senate has been really impressive to him.

[07:35:07]

And by the way, can I just say about the McConnell Center, they bring all kinds of speakers to --

BERMAN: Yes.

JENNINGS: -- campus. They've had people on the left, they've had people on the right. The commitment to bringing the most interesting people in public affairs to campus is a hallmark of it and that's why she was invited.

BERMAN: Yes, have the discussion.

JENNINGS: Yes.

CUPP: What -- I mean, on its face -- like, I'm a -- I'm a small government conservative. I like that someone wants to slow government down, which is what she wants to do by expanding the filibuster and why she sort of jumped in the way of Build Back Better. That doesn't bother me.

To Natasha's point, it bothers most people in Arizona, though. I mean, her polling -- she has the least favorable rating of any Democrat in the state. She's likely to be primaried in 2024.

So if you're just playing politics with this I'm not sure she's doing an effective job of keeping her seat, but she's doing an effective job.

BERMAN: For people who like to see 14-dimensional chess with Mitch McConnell there were those, Mark, who were saying oh, this is McConnell trying to line things up so if the Democrats maintain control of the Senate at 50-50 Sinema will switch.

MCKINNON: Listen, as a fan of instant coffee I don't -- I don't -- I don't think the institution needs any defending. The word filibuster comes from the Dutch word pirate. It's a kill switch to deny majority voting, which is what this country is supposed to be all about.

It -- I campaigned for 40 years. I have not once in those 40 years had a voter say please defend the filibuster, please. And by the way, we -- I don't want the Senate -- I don't want Congress doing any more than they're doing right now.

BERMAN: I will say --

ALFORD: They're not doing much now.

JENNINGS: Mark, have you -- have you not been talking to very many Republicans? I mean --

BERMAN: I mean, guys --

JENNINGS: -- and controlling the populist mobs -- I mean, it's the thing about the filibuster rules. It protects us from the mobs. That's the House's job. They're a mob.

The Senate has a distinct role to play in our culture and in our political culture, and that's to be the saucer that cools the hot, sloshing tea. And so, I think there's a definite role --

BERMAN: The instant coffee.

JENNINGS: -- to play for them.

ALFORD: And also to kill civil rights legislation.

BERMAN: Well, look --

ALFORD: That's the origin of the --

BERMAN: Let's play -- first of all, stroopwafel is my favorite Dutch word over a filibuster. Second of all, let's play what Kyrsten Sinema had to say about the filibuster here. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA (D-AZ): The best thing you can do for your child is not give them everything they want, right? And that's important to the U.S. Senate as well. We shouldn't get everything we want in the moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: She's actually talking about growing the filibuster. Get everything we want in the moment, Natasha. Is that right?

ALFORD: So you want to move from getting nothing done to like really making sure you get nothing done, right? I think that, again, it's so theoretical where she's at. It doesn't reflect the reality of politics and how things work.

And for voters, when they see that Kyrsten Sinema blocked voting rights legislation, right, that's intended to protect everybody regardless of party, they're going to have a hard time making that connection.

CUPP: But Biden did get a bill passed -- the reduce inflation act, which might not reduce inflation but it will do a lot of other things. He did get it passed. And maybe her getting in the way and Joe Manchin getting in the way made it a better bill for Democrats, Republicans, and voters.

BERMAN: But that was reconciliation, right? That was 50-50.

CUPP: It was. That's true.

JENNINGS: But --

ALFORD: And it was pared down from Build Back Better. And again, it's not voting --

CUPP: Yes.

ALFORD: -- rights. Voting rights --

CUPP: Right.

ALFORD: -- protects everyone, whether you're Republican, Democrat. Why is that not something that's common sense that Kyrsten Sinema --

CUPP: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Everyone's --

JENNINGS: Because Republicans don't want to federalize the election system. McConnell often says he thinks politics should exist between the 40-yard lines. That's where Kyrsten Sinema is and I think that's why they get along so well.

MCKINNON: But he was happy to get rid of it when he wanted judges. JENNINGS: Oh, you mean Harry Reid got rid of it when he -- I mean, he

broke it. Reid broke it. He broke it and now they had to buy it. I mean, that's the reality.

And -- but Sinema was advocating going back to it for judges yesterday. She was advocating going back to pre-Reid. And so, you know.

MCKINNON: The system is broken, man.

ALFORD: People, for years, broke the rules.

MCKINNON: I want some coffee.

ALFORD: People use the rules to win when they want to win.

BERMAN: All right. Mark, Natasha, S.E., Scott, nice to see all of you. Thank you very much.

So, why do some people lose their sense of smell during COVID, and why does it take a while for it to come back after testing negative? Dr. Sanjay Gupta here to explain.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And why the chess world champion is accusing his rival of cheating.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:43:30]

KEILAR: Sore throat, coughing, fatigue. These, of course, are all symptoms of COVID-19. But early on, losing your sense of smell became one of the dead giveaways that someone had the illness, and sometimes that symptom lingers on long after the virus is gone.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores the importance of our sense of smell and the frustration that those who lost it have felt, and he joins us now.

This is one of the worst things, Sanjay, when this continues on. It is so disorienting for people to not have this sense.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, "CHASING LIFE" PODCAST: Yes. Yes, and it can be loss of smell, which is called anosmia, or distorted smell, which is called parosmia. And that's when you smell something and it smells like something totally different -- typically, something rotten. You're trying to smell chocolate and it smells like rotten food instead.

What was interesting, Brianna -- you know, you get about 40-50 percent of people who said yes, I had loss of smell. It affected my taste as a result of this. When they started to actually look into this now, two years later, and do objective measurements, they found that it was probably much higher -- closer to 90 percent of people, at least for a period of time, had some loss of smell and maybe even corresponding loss of taste. A significant number. The vast majority of those people recovered. And they recovered sometimes within days, sometimes it took weeks, but they recovered. But there's about five percent of people for whom those symptoms really persisted, and this is millions of people in the United States -- tens of millions of people around the world who have that persistent -- again, either complete loss of smell or perhaps even worse, that distorted smell when things don't smell at all like what you think they're going to smell like.

[07:45:03]

KEILAR: Yes, that's terrible. I mean, that's just awful.

Does it -- does it behave differently with different variants?

GUPTA: In the beginning, if you looked at the original variants -- alpha -- that seemed to have the greatest impact overall. I mean, that was the 40 to 50 percent of people who reported loss of smell.

What's been interesting over time is that delta was a little bit better in terms of not causing as much abnormalities in smell. And then omicron, at least so far, seems a lot less significant in terms of loss of smell.

We don't really know how much these variants -- these new variants are affecting that. But overall, it does seem to have diminished in terms of impact.

KEILAR: Why does this happen?

GUPTA: Yes. This is a good question. I mean, I -- as a brain guy, myself, I was really surprised by this. Initially, I thought look, people get upper respiratory symptoms, nasal congestion, sinus congestion, and that's what's causing it. But it's way more than that and that's what's so interesting and a little scary about this virus.

We have these images. But basically, the virus will go and attack some of the supporting cells that are responsible for your smell. Responsible for the nerve that allows you to smell. And what happens is those particular cells -- they're supposed to regenerate every few months. But as a result of this virus, they have a hard time doing that.

So here's what happens. You could have loss of smell initially and then it comes back, and then three to four months later when those cells are supposed to regenerate, they don't. And therefore, you have a second hit. You kind of lose smell again.

For the podcast, "Chasing Life," I talked to Dr. Zara Patel about this. Here's how she described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ZARA PATEL, RHINOLOGIST AND PROFESSOR, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: When people have this more permanent type of loss of smell and taste, that natural, inherent regenerative capacity of the olfactory epithelium of all these different types of cells has taken a hit that's just too great that it cannot then bounce back and regenerate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So, a little scary there for that. Again, admittedly, a small percentage of people. But Brianna, potentially, millions of people in the United States who are still dealing with this and tens of millions of people around the world.

KEILAR: How do you help people regain? I mean, can you help them regain their sense of smell?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, first of all, I will say it's interesting because smell is often thought of as sort of the Cinderella senses. When people are asked what sense are you most willing to give up, people often say smell. But it's critically important. I mean, important for survival in terms of smelling things like smoke, smelling rotten food so you don't eat it.

It can be an indication of some sort of nerve degenerative problem if people lose smell. So you want to understand how people are smelling.

But there is a way -- there are ways to sort of try and retrain your sense of smell. I found this really fascinating and simple as well. If you go to someone like Dr. Patel or a smell, sort of, specialist, these four smells -- rose, lemon, eucalyptus, clove -- they're different sorts of smells and they -- and they represent different areas of your -- what's called your epithelium of your -- of your smell nerves.

You train yourself. You kind of smell these things over and over again and you know what you're smelling. And over time, in a significant percentage of people, you may start to actually have an objective improvement in smell.

KEILAR: That is amazing. But also, just a bummer that people have to go through this, you know? I mean, it's -- it is such an important sense.

Sanjay, thank you so much for taking us --

GUPTA: It is.

KEILAR: -- through that.

And for more on regaining your sense of smell --

GUPTA: You got it.

KEILAR: -- after COVID and other stories -- I know so many people are dealing with this -- you can find the "Chasing Life" podcast with Sanjay wherever you download podcasts.

Hurricane Ian making landfall in Cuba this morning and it's expected to gain some steam as it nears the U.S. We have live coverage from Cuba and Florida ahead.

BERMAN: A rule change could be coming to "JEOPARDY!" that could win some people some serious cash.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:53:13]

KEILAR: Some chess drama after grandmaster Magnus Carlsen of Norway abruptly quit his match and explicitly accused his rival of cheating. In a statement on Twitter, he said American champion Hans Niemann has quote "cheated more and more recently than he's admitted." But he offered no evidence of the alleged cheating.

The 31-year-old Carlsen still won the September 20 match despite withdrawing. Niemann, who is 19 years old, has admitted to cheating earlier in his career but denies any wrongdoing now.

In the meantime, the International Chess Federation reprimanded Carlsen, saying there were better ways to handle the situation.

BERMAN: Now to the true game of gentle people. What is ticked off? Some "JEOPARDY!" fans are more than a little peeved that a major change could be coming to the game show, although it's just an idea right now. Executive producer Mike Davies has suggested that cash bonuses could be awarded to contestants who successfully sweep a full category, and you get to keep that bonus money whether or not you win the game as a whole.

With us now, former "JEOPARDY!" champion Austin Rogers. Great to see you, champ.

AUSTIN ROGERS, FORMER "JEOPARDY!" CHAMPION, HOST, "A LOT TO LEARN WITH AUSTIN ROGERS" PODCAST: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Talk to me about why you think their suggesting this -- that they would give you a bonus if you ran a whole category.

ROGERS: Well, let's go back to the history of the game. Back in the day, in the olden times, you used to play linearly. And the writers of "JEOPARDY!" -- they write their category top down. And they are creating in their head a little narrative that they want to take the players and the viewers along with.

The example I give is if at the top of a category it might say "Matterhorn" and you might go is it Matterhorn or Mount Blanc? And then, at the bottom, they'll have the opposite one. And you'll only learn that if you go down the category.

[07:55:01]

Now, of course, is that the best way to play -- no. You want to optimize with what the so-called "Forrest Bounce" perfected by James Holzhauer, which is hunting, picking, building up money, and then going targeted for the daily double.

So, we're going to have some "JEOPARDY!" boffens down the road right now probably calculating what is the new optimum way to play. Is it to go for those bonuses or is it to just go for the hunt and pick and -- the hunt and pick -- hunt-pick daily double model.

BERMAN: Right. So again, when you run the category the show likes it because it tells a better story and the viewer can stay focused on one thing. But what people have been doing lately is looking for the daily double -- going across, hunting and picking, which is a little bit disjointed.

Now, the show can't tell you how to play but they seem to be incentivizing the category option here. You'll get a little extra money if you do it this way.

ROGERS: And that money will not affect the ultimate winner. So in Michael Davies little statement it was hey, maybe it'll give their second and third place finishers something else to go for -- an extra carrot rather than an extra stick on getting beaten. But I think it's really going to be fun for the writers and fun for us to follow along.

BERMAN: Some people on Twitter -- because this is what people do on Twitter -- have been ticked off. You can't do this. You can't change this. You can't add something new now.

ROGERS: "JEOPARDY!" players are typically on the risk-averse sides -- a side. That's why when we see optimum "JEOPARDY!" players it's such an outlier. And in the run-of-the-mill day-to-day audience in-audience out show tapings of "JEOPARDY!" most people do try to start at the top and move their way down to the bottom.

So I don't think we're going to see this massive, dramatic change that we used to -- that we're going to expect.

And secondly, running a category these days is exceedingly rare. In the old days, people would just routinely do it. But now, the clues are harder, the players are better, everyone's training harder. I don't think it's going to be this massive earthquake that we think it will be.

BERMAN: If you were going in tomorrow to play, would you do it? Would you try to run the category or would you stick to the Forrest method?

ROGERS: I tried to do it in the first place because I was not a huge bouncer until I had amassed a nice, tidy sum. But in general, especially -- and you did this -- the clever categories. The wordplay ones. I don't know what they're going for. Let's throw out the top two clues and stick it against the wall and see if it works. Now that linearity of the category is going to be so much more apparent.

BERMAN: Yes. It's like if you're lucky enough to have a category you think you're good at, that's the only place I want to be. I don't want to leave that category anyway.

ROGERS: Right. But then you get one that's like third times the CHA arm -- the third time -- OK, so everything includes cha. Is it in the beginning of the word? Is it in the middle of the word? Could it be anywhere? I don't know until you see that first clue.

BERMAN: And, of course, none of this helps you with the buzzer, which is the hardest part of the whole game, to begin with.

Austin, great to see you. Thank you very much.

ROGERS: Thank you very much, John.

BERMAN: So "NEW DAY" continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JANE CASTOR (D), TAMPA, FLORIDA: We want you to understand the seriousness of this situation. And again, don't wait until the last minute. We can replace possessions but we can't bring anybody back to life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That's Tampa's mayor urging residents to heed the warnings and protect themselves ahead of the huge storm that is coming their way.

I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

And Hurricane Ian is making landfall in Cuba this morning as it continues to head right toward Florida. The category three storm has 125-mile-per-hour winds right now and is expected to bring life- threatening storm surge. That is the major concern this morning. Officials say the Tampa region could see the storm of a lifetime, mostly because of that surge.

More than 15 million people are expected to be affected by Hurricane Ian when it arrives. Ahead of the storm, a hospital in St. Petersburg has suspended service and transferred its patients. Florida parks and schools are closed. At least three cruise ship lines have rerouted passengers. And Tampa Bay Airport will suspend operations at 5:00 pm today.

KEILAR: There is a steady stream of people hitting the road, leaving the Tampa area and heading inland. There are long lines for free sandbags -- some people waiting up to three hours. U.S. military installations are moving aircraft and naval ships out of the Tampa and Jacksonville areas.

And to give you an idea just how massive this storm is, this is video of Ian from the International Space Station.

BERMAN: CNN's Randi Kaye is live in Punta Gorda, Florida. Patrick Oppmann is in Havana this morning. And meteorologist Chad Myers is at the weather center in Atlanta.

Let's go first to Randi Kaye in southwest Florida where people are getting ready, Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they certainly are, John. Now, we are in downtown Punta Gorda, Florida and you can certainly see here people have started to board up their businesses here in downtown. They've also put some sandbags down. [08:00:00]