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New Day Saturday

Scary Tornado Slams Into Los Angeles; "Justice For All" March In D.C. Today; Senate Reconvenes At Noon On Spending Bill; Beverly Johnson: Bill Cosby Drugged Me; FBI Dispatched for Possible Lynching Case Investigation; Tornado Destroys Homes in Los Angeles; ISIS Can Be Rooted in American Iraq Prison Camp

Aired December 13, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Tornado whipped through South Los Angeles. Look at this, whipping off rooftops and tearing down trees.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: And developing overnight, a surprise decision has the Senate meeting today after failing to reach a decision on a massive government spending package.

BLACKWELL: And protests continue across the country over recent police killings. (Inaudible) get ready to march to the capitol today demanding change.

PAUL: Good morning on a Saturday morning. I hope a little R&R is in store for you today. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's 6:00 here and it's good to have you this morning.

PAUL: A lot of bleeping going on obviously because somebody cannot believe this, what they are looking at, a frightening tornado ripping through South Los Angeles, which does not normally see this kind of weather. But this is part of a monster storm that's been pounding the west coast. Listen to the fear of this resident as he records the storm.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The tornado tore off roofs, and several homes there damaged, an apartment complex, blown out windows and knocked down trees in this community. Winds reached up to 85 miles an hour. This is the first tornado to hit L.A. since 2007. A lot of people cleaning up there today.

PAUL: Kudos for him, at least I guess staying calm. I don't even know how you hold onto the camera at that point. Look at this, the same storm system there washing a vacation home into the Pacific Ocean in Washington State.

BLACKWELL: This is in wash away beach, of all places. It's the third home there to meet the same fate this week.

PAUL: We need to point out this monster storm is blamed for at least two deaths in Portland, Oregon.

BLACKWELL: There are fears this morning of more mud and rockslides in parts of California that have been scorched by the drought and you know, really drying that area and the wildfires as well contributing to all this. Northwest of L.A. some homes are buried up to their rooftops in debris.

PAUL: CNN's Stephanie Elam is in California. Good morning, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor and Christi, when you look at where I'm standing it is astounding the amount of rock that has come cascading off the roof and the street. Amazingly, no one was injured.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM (voice-over): Two inches of rain in just three hours, pelting Southern California. In the heart of the city, a swift water rescue on the Los Angeles River.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There they go. They will pull her in.

ELAM: From the rising and rapidly climbing current, first responders pulled two people clinging to trees to safety including this woman. Other parts of the Los Angeles area left ravaged by recent wildfires also getting doused with more water than the banked scarred land could handle. Crews began working to clean up the mud and debris enveloping these homes and blocking some streets even as the rain was still falling.

In the Camareo Springs, an area that was charred by wildfire in 2013, the downpour was far more punishing, sending rocks cascading down on these homes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have a lot of rock here, almost like a quarry. It's just amazing to look at.

ELAM: The damage so intense officials deemed 10 homes uninhabitable but remarkably no reports of injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a lot of rock.

ELAM: Cindy Wargo came here to check on her mother who is safe, but she is still heartbroken for these residents.

CINDY WARGO, RESIDENT: This is their retirement community and you know, this is where they put their money in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: And to add insult to injury, more rain is expected at the beginning of the week, which is very necessary for drought stricken California, but for some there is such a thing as too much of a good thing -- Victor and Christie.

BLACKWELL: All right, Stephanie Elam, thank you so much. It was incredible that no one there was hurt.

PAUL: Yes, no kidding.

BLACKWELL: Listen, we want to show you more of that frightening video from South Los Angeles. Look at this.

PAUL: That's a tornado ripping the roof to shreds, as you see there. I am still amazed that man stood there the whole time. I guess if you're in an apartment where else do you go? You don't have a basement to run to.

Karen Maginnis is with us from the CNN Weather Center. A tornado in Los Angeles, this is rare, is it not?

KAREN MAGINNIS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It is rare but not unheard of. As you heard Victor say earlier, it's been about seven years since they saw a tornado. Before that, it was 2004. This is part of the pineapple express. We're not finished yet.

Yes, Southern California, at least in the short term. That was an EF zero tornado by the way and EF zero means that estimated winds between 65 and about 85 miles an hour. Now this storm system moves to the four corners and central plains.

The secondary effect of this is going to be the potential for severe weather in the central plains. This long stretch of moisture that stretched across the Pacific and moved to Southern California with an abundance of rainfall, that is pushing to central plains and we could see the rift, a slight rift.

We could see some severe weather possibly an isolated tornado. Heavy rainfall across California in some areas as much as 12 inches over the last two days, look at some of these rainfall totals.

There you see Camarillo. They saw 2 1/2 inches of rain. All right, breezy and warm in the central plains, Wichita and Oklahoma City and for Dallas, temperature approaching 70 degrees.

Because of that, here comes a frontal system and we have a deep trough and area of low pressure and we could see that storm erupt tomorrow evening. We'll keep you updated on that.

Temperatures in the northeast in the 30s today. For the northwest, chilly, only in the 40s.

PAUL: All righty, Karen, thank you so much.

We're just hours away from protesters who expect to fill the nation's capital calling attention to police killings such as the one involving the controversial death of Eric Gardner and Michael Brown.

BLACKWELL: This is all part of what demonstrators are calling a week of outrage. Now the protesters will start their march near the White House and make their way down to the U.S. capitol.

PAUL: We know demonstrations are also expected to take place across the country including California, Florida, and New York.

BLACKWELL: This is what it looked like in Cambridge, Massachusetts last night as waves of protesters, they stopped traffic. Look at this intersection. This is one of those so-called die-ins.

PAUL: In St. Louis, peaceful protesters gathered outside city hall to demand justice and law enforcement reforms. It wasn't without controversy though. An officer apparently is being disciplined after wearing a Wilson badge on his right arm.

BLACKWELL: You know, the badge was a reference to the former Ferguson police officer who shot and killed unarmed teenager, Michael Brown in August.

PAUL: Meanwhile, Eric Garner's mom accuses the officer whose chokehold led to her son's death of a thrill kill. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: If it was a takedown, why did he continue choking him, mashing his head against the ground, and the rest of the police officers on him. The video plainly shows how long he had his hand around my son's neck. He had no regards for his life. It was like it was a thrill kill for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: We're also hearing from former President Bill Clinton about the weeks of unrest. He says that police departments need to work to improve their relationships with their communities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: The fundamental problem you have anywhere is when people think their lives or lives of their children don't matter like they're disposable like a paper napkin after a lunch or restaurant or something, just doesn't matter. We have to -- if we want our freedom to be indeed as well as word in America we have to make people feel everybody matters again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Clinton went on to say there's a lot of work that needs to be done to rebuild trust within the community.

BLACKWELL: All right, to make sure to stay with us throughout the morning because, of course, we'll take you live to those demonstrations as soon as they get under way.

PAUL: And I want to let you know we're just getting started. We have the latest on a surprise late night decision that has the Senate, yes, they are meeting again in just a few hours from now after they failed to reach an agreement on a massive government spending package.

BLACKWELL: Also breaking overnight, police make an arrest in a shooting outside a Portland school. We'll have the latest on that. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Quiet night on Capitol Hill right now, the dome is undergoing some refurbishing. But in less than six hours, Senators will be back it trying to pass this massive spending package to avoid another government shutdown.

PAUL: It was supposed to adjourn for the weekend and resume debate on Monday. But in a late night twist, some junior Republican senators defied reached by the Senate top leaders. It's really just the latest example some say the fighting in Washington. Let's go to CNN Erin McPike who has more for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This by definition was a compromised bill.

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Obama acknowledging the new political reality in Washington that he has to deal with Republicans.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: This is what's produced when you have the divided government that the American people voted for. Had I been able to draft my own legislation and get it passed without any Republican votes I suspect it would be slightly deficit.

That is not the circumstance we find ourselves in and I think what the American people very much are looking for is some practical governance and the willingness to compromise. That's what this bill reflects.

MCPIKE: But Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi and other liberal Democrats are fuming.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: There are a bunch of provisions in this bill that I really do not like.

MCPIKE: Specifically it rolls back some of the regulations on Wall Street and it dramatically raise the limits donors can give to political parties.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The American people are disgusted by Wall Street.

MCPIKE: But in addition to funding Obamacare programs, early childhood education and manufacturing initiatives, the president points out it keeps the government functioning in crisis.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the things that was very important in this legislation was it allowed us the funding necessary to battle ISIL and continue to support our men and women in uniform.

We put a lot of burdens on our defense department and armed services over the last year, some of which were anticipated, some of which were not. This bill also contains the necessary funding to continue to make progress on our fight against Ebola, both at home and abroad.

MCPIKE: Erin McPike, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: We have CNN digital correspondent, Chris Moody with us. Chris, we have now moved into some alternative universe where you have David Vitter and Ted Cruz and Elizabeth Warren against this bill for different reasons. Help us understand what's happening here.

CHRIS MOODY, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the Congress that just will not go away. Last night, Harry Reid, as the leader of the Senate wanted to hold a procedural vote to fund the government and then go home for Christmas which they could have done by early next week.

But some Republicans balked and said, well, fine, if you want to vote on that, we want an up-down vote on President Obama's executive order on immigration. Harry Reid said, no, here we are on Saturday set up for a slate of votes at noon here.

Harry Reid will put together votes on nominations the president wants to see filled. The reason they're doing that now come January Republicans will take control of the chamber and it will be a lot harder to get those things done.

It has set up a fight that is going to take us through the weekend and into next week. C-Span junkies are not going to have to watch reruns this weekend. Everybody else is left scratching their heads saying what is going on in Washington.

BLACKWELL: So last night, one of the floor speeches that got a lot of attention was from Senator Warren in which she railed against the influence of big banks on government. Let's listen to it a bit and then talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Washington already works really well for the billionaires and the big corporations and the lawyers and the lobbyists. What about the families who lost their homes or their jobs or their retirement savings the last time Citi bet big on derivatives and lost?

What about the families who are living paycheck to paycheck and saw their tax dollars go to bail out Citi just six years ago? We were sent here to fight for those families. And it is time -- it is pastime for Washington to start working for them. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Impassioned plea from Senator Warren there and really speaking to her new role as liaison for progressives. This is a question of when this will pass, not if, is that right, Chris? BLACKWELL: Absolutely. There will be a lot of drama involved. They will pass this to fund the government into next year. Liberals are fuming. Regulations were set on Wall Street in the past and now we're seeing those chipped away.

This happens, sometimes laws are reformed and there is a lot of debate about that. What people are really angry about is that it's being put into a spending bill that's a must pass bill with a hard deadline so it really gives a lot of people no choice.

What does that mean necessarily for regular people? Well, liberals would say that it means Main Street could possibly have to once again bail out Wall Street. That's where the frustration comes in chipping away at those reforms.

BLACKWELL: We will talk more about that. Chris, we want you to stay with us for the next hour. Good to have you with us this morning to help us understand all this.

MOODY: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right, a lot of news to tell you about this morning. Let's start with the "Morning Read."

PAUL: Yes, new this hour, police in Portland, Oregon have arrested a 22-year-old man in connection to a shooting near a high school yesterday. Four people were shot, one of them, a 16-year-old girl is in critical condition this hour. Two others are in fair condition and another person has been treated and released. A task force is investigating that incident.

BLACKWELL: The funeral is set today for the Mississippi teen who was burned alive. Investigators say they're looking into the strong possibility, that's how they characterize this, that someone was with 19-year-old Jessica Chambers just moments before a fire engulfed her and her car last weekend.

They're treating the case as an arson saying, an accelerant was used. CNN affiliate WMC spoke to a man questioning about Chambers' death he said investigators told him that Chambers last word was the name Eric or Derrick.

Last night, hundreds visited Chambers and they wrote loving messages, you can see them there, all over her closed casket.

PAUL: Well, let's talk about early Christmas for some families in Massachusetts. We understand that two customers at two separate Toys "R" Us stores paid off thousands of dollars in customer layaway accounts.

So-called layaway angels paid off the bill for 275 people at a cost of nearly $40,000. Toys-R-Us said this is the largest lay away donation of this holiday season.

BLACKWELL: Adrian Peterson will not play another snap in the NFL this season. The league denied the runningback's appeal of a season long suspension for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy. That was after being charged with child abuse. According to ESPN, Peterson said he has considered retiring, but will appeal the decision in federal court.

PAUL: For now a famous supermodel has joined a lot of other women who have accused Bill Cosby of drugging them. We are talking about Beverly Johnson. Her story is so vivid a lot of people could not turn away from it. You're going to hear it for yourself.

BLACKWELL: Plus a grieving mother says her 17-year-old son's death was wrongly ruled a suicide. I went to North Carolina this week, sat down with her and her family. You will hear why she claims that her son was lynched.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Bill Cosby drugged me. By now, we've heard quite a few women say those words. But when legendary super model, Beverly Johnson used those same words as a headline for her "Vanity Fair" essay, it was what everyone on Facebook and Twitter was talking about.

PAUL: Yesterday, she actually spoke to CNN's Alison Camerota and shared her vivid story of the night spent with Cosby and this was 30 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEVERLY JOHNSON, FORMER SUPERMODEL: He made this cappuccino. I said I really didn't want to drink any coffee. It would keep me up late at night. He was very insistent that I try this cappuccino that would be the best coffee that I would ever had. I relented. He gave me the cappuccino. I took one sip and I felt something very strange going on in my head.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Describe the sensation in your body, that you started feeling immediately.

JOHNSON: Well, the first sensation was, you know, a little woozy. And so then I took another sip and after that second sip, I knew I had been drugged. It was very powerful, it came on very quickly. The room started to spin. My speech was slurred.

I remember him calling me over towards him, as if we were going to begin the scene then. And he placed his hands on my waist. I remember steadying myself with my hand on his shoulders and I just kind of cocked my head because at that point, I knew he had drugged me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: We will have to wait and see what comes of this. She's compelling.

BLACKWELL: Dozens of women now were coming out and telling a similar story.

PAUL: It grew to 23.

BLACKWELL: Yes. It takes a lot of bravery to come out and tell that story, especially after so many years.

Listen, another story that we're talking about this morning, the FBI now investigating a possible lynching of a black teenager. Yes. 2014, I traveled to North Carolina to speak with the parents of Laden Lacey, the boy you see on your screen to understand why they believe their boy was murdered in really the most heinous way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: What you're looking at there is a tornado. My goodness, hopscotching across south Los Angeles. Just one of the developing stories we're following this morning. The guy who took this video says he saw his own roof fly off and that he's shaken up. So are a lot of other people up and down the West Coast, too. This monster storm triggered this scene also - I'm going to show you here, causing landslides, washed homes into the ocean and buried others in debris while we have those pictures for you coming up.

BLACKWELL: Demonstrators across the country, they are gearing up for protests today. It's all part of a week of outrage over the controversial deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown at the hands of police. Overnight protesters filled the streets including here in Cambridge, Massachusetts, also in St. Louis they blocked traffic in these so-called die-ins that are being staged around the country. They are demanding law enforcement reform and calling for an end to police brutality.

PAUL: What is happening on Capitol Hill? In less than six hours, senators are going to be back at it trying to pass a massive spending package to avoid another government shutdown. They were supposed to adjourn for the weekend and resume debate on Monday, but in this twist late last night, some junior Republican senators defied an agreement reached by the Senate top leaders.

BLACKWELL: It's almost inconceivable that in 2014, the FBI has just been dispatched to investigate a possible lynching. Yes, the lynching of a black teenager in North Carolina. The case got the attention of the NAACP. And later today, that group is holding a rally to highlight the case of Lennon Lacy's death. Earlier this week I traveled to North Carolina to speak with this family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLAUDIA LACY: I look for him and I don't see him. I listen for him and I don't hear him.

BLACKWELL: The last time Claudia Lacy saw and heard her 17-year-old son, Lennon Lacy was around the time he snapped this selfie. The caption, last night pic before the game. Lennon was a high school student in Bladenboro North Carolina, an alignment on a football team focused on a professional football career.

CLAUDIA LACY: He was a physical fit 17-year-old, very athletic, very, very athletic, down to his food, everything he drank.

BLACKWELL: But Lennon had asthma and had to exercise outside at night after the temperature dropped, something his family said he did often. Lennon headed out for a walk the night of August 2008, they never saw him alive again the next morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a black male ..

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hanging from the swing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. He hung himself.

BLACKWELL: Lennon's body was found dangling, covered in fire ants in the center of a mobile home park.

PIERRE LACEY, BROTHER: It's out in the open, there's trailers all around. People work, you know, around the clock these hours of the day. Someone should have saw something, but no one have seen anything.

CLAUDIA LACY: It was unreal. It was like a dream. It was like I was not seeing what I was seeing.

BLACKWELL: The state medical examiner's office declared Lennon's death a suicide, but Lennon's mother believes they are wrong.

CLAUDIA LACY: He didn't do this to himself.

BLACKWELL (on camera): Do you believe your son was lynched?

CLAUDIA LACY: Yes.

BLACKWELL (voice over): Pierre Lacy is Lennon's brother.

PIERRE LACY: He may have either been strangled somewhere else and then placed there or he was hung there while people were around watching him die.

BLACKWELL: When questioned by state investigators, Lennon's mom said he had been depressed because a relative had died recently. Lacy said she did not mean that he suffered from depression.

CLAUDIA LACY: When you just lose someone close to you you are going to be depressed, upset, in mourning.

BLACKWELL: Lennon's family says he was focused on football and college and distracted by his ex-girlfriend. His mother says 17-year- old Lennon had been dating a 31-year-old white woman. The age of consent in North Carolina is 16. Still, some people in this small southern town did not like it. Lennon's mother did not like their dramatic age difference.

CLAUDIA LACY: I was shocked, disappointed and I also initially told him how I felt I did not approve of it.

BLACKWELL: In the wake of his hanging, some wonder if he was killed because he was in an interracial relationship. Racial tension can often exist just below the surface and here, it can break through. Local news covered a Ku Klux Klan rally in a nearby county just weeks before Lennon's body were found.

BLACKWELL (on camera): Are there people in this community who didn't like that 17-year-old black male and the 31-year-old white female?

CLAUDIA LACY: I'm sure. Yes.

BLACKWELL: A week after Lennon was buried, a teenager was arrested for desecrating his grave. Reverend William Barber leads the North Carolina conference of NAACP.

REV. WILLIAM BARBER, PRESIDENT, NORTH CAROLINA NAACP: There are too many questions and it very well could be a lynching or staged lynching. We don't know. But what we do know is there has to be a serious and full investigation of these matters.

BLACKWELL: The NAACP hired forensic pathologist Christina Roberts to review the case including Dr. Debra Radisch's autopsy, completed for the state. Her first concern, basic physics, Lennon was 5'9". The crossbar of the swing set is 7 1/2 feet off the ground. With no swings or anything else found at the scene that Lennon could have used according to the NAACP's review, how did he get up there?

PIERRE LACY: His size and stature does not add up to him being capable of -- just constructing all of this alone in the dark.

BLACKWELL: According to the police report, the caller, a 52-year-old woman, was able to get the 207 pound teen down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Y'all need to try to get him down?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you can.

BLACKWELL: Then, seconds later.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm letting him down.

BLACKWELL: According to the NAACP review, Dr. Radisch also noted that she was not provided with photographs or dimensions of the swing-set. Without this information she would be unable to evaluate the ability to create the scenario. Lacy said she told state investigators the belts used to fashion the noose did not belong to Lennon.

CLAUDIA LACY: I know every piece and every stick of clothes this child has. I buy it, I know.

BLACKWELL: The initial report from the local medical examiner, however, notes that the belts appeared to be dog leashes. According to the NAACP's review, Radisch said she thought some portion must be missing because there was no secondary cut in either belt, a cut that would have been made to take the body down. And Lennon's family says he left home that night wearing size 12 air Jordans but he was found wearing these size 10 1/2 Air Force 1's, shoes that were not with Lennon's body when he arrived at the medical examiner's office, according to the NAACP review.

PIERRE LACY: He's going to walk a quarter of mile from his house in a pair of shoes that is two sizes too small after he takes off his new pair of shoes, and this is a 17-year-old black kid with a brand new pair of Jordans on. He's going to take those Jordans off and just get rid of them and put on some shoes that's not his. We don't know where he got them from, no laces in them and continue to walk down this dirt road late at night to a swing set in the middle of the trailer park and hang himself?

BLACKWELL: And there are questions in the NAACP review about Lennon's death being ruled a suicide. Dr. Radisch noted that her determination of manner of death in this case as suicide was based on the information she was provided by law enforcement and the local medical examiner. She would have likely called the manner of death pending while awaiting toxicology and investigation, but the local medical examiner had already signed the manner of death as suicide.

However, in the summary of the case written the day Lennon was found, the local medical examiner asks did he hang himself? Will autopsy tell us and left the conclusion on the manner of death pending. We asked to interview Radisch who declared the death a suicide. Instead, a department spokesperson sent CNN a statement confirming the conversations between Roberts and Radisch in writing. The comments that were released by the NAACP were a synopsis of the professional exchange between the NAACP's independently retained forensic pathologist and Dr. Radisch. Local police and state investigators declined to speak with CNN on camera for this story.

BARBER: We don't have confidence in this local group here to be able to carry out the depth level of the investigation that needs to be done.

BLACKWELL: Now, the FBI is reviewing the circumstances surrounding Lennon's death.

CLAUDIA LACY: That's all I've asked for, what is due, owed rightfully to me and my family, justice, prove to me what happened to my child.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Well, as for the local police department, because of its small size, it's an 11 person department, it says it referred this case to the North Carolina state bureau of investigation. And so far, that agency has only acknowledged that it has the case, but had no further comment.

And the mother in this case, Miss Lacy said that she can accept, if it's proven she can accept that this was suicide. But there are too many questions and too many holes, they believe, to just accept it this early on.

PAUL: Well, they -- you know, put them out there in that piece certainly. I think a lot of people watching it.

BLACKWELL: And we'll stay on top of it, of course. PAUL: Yeah, listen, there is this new report out that reveals that

the terror group ISIS may have its roots in a U.S. prison camp in Iraq. We are going to have some shocking details for you revealed by jihadi about ISIS and its leaders.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: There is a fascinating new report from the British newspaper "The Guardian" on the origin of ISIS. Now, it says that the terror group started more than a decade ago at Camp Bucca in an American prison camp that was in Iraq.

PAUL: ISIS leader Abu Bakr - al-Baghdadi was actually one of the inmates at this camp. But he reportedly used his time behind barbed wire to build this network that's now among the most blood-thirsty terror groups in the world. Our Brian Todd has been examining this. Brian?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He may be the most vicious terrorist leader in recent years, possibly more brutal than bin Laden. Now, a former inmate at a U.S.-run prison camp in Iraq says ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the man behind scores of ISIS beheadings was once a trusted inmate by his American captors, allowed to roam freely around the camp.

MARTIN CHULOV, CORRESPONDENT, "THE GUARDIAN": But the Americans seemed to see Abu Bakr is somebody who could keep the prison quiet. There were 24 camps within the Sunni side of Camp Bucca. He was allowed open access to all of them.

TODD: "Guardian" reporter Martin Chulov interviewed a senior ISIS commander he calls Abu Ahmed, not his real name. Abu Ahmed says he spent time at Camp Bucca with Baghdadi starting in 2004. He told Chulov Baghdadi was a fixer at the camp who could settle disputes between competing factions. "He was respected very much by the U.S. Army." Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, he said, was seen by other detainees as clever, scheming, "using a policy of conquer and divide to get what he wanted." A U.S. intelligence official tells us Baghdadi built street cred inside Bucca.

Abu Ahmed said Baghdadi and other jihadists at this American prison were not always segregated, essentially allowed to meet freely to plot and they had an ingenious way of communicating.

CHULOV: Him and others were able to write their contact details on the white elastic of their boxer shorts, the prison-issued boxer shorts, and that was a way that they networked and when they got out of prison they had phone numbers, they had details of fathers, villages, uncles, whatever.

TODD: Abu Ahmed depicted Camp Bucca as the incubator of ISIS. Saying it was a management school for ISIS leaders, "if there was no American prison in Iraq there would be no Islamic State now." PATRICK SKINNER, THE SOUFAN GROUP: Most of the senior leadership and

probably a good portion of the mid-level management and foot soldiers came from Bucca. Because tens of thousands of people were held in Bucca over the years, and so just when they got out they had little to do and they had these established networks. And it's clear that they had done their homework in the prison.

TODD: And as he left, according to a former camp commander Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi had a chilling parting shot.

KENNETH KING, FORMER COMMANDER AT CAMP BUCCA: He looked over to us and as he left he said, see you guys in New York.

TODD: Responding to the accounts that Camp Bucca was a breeding ground for ISIS where jihadists could strategize, a Pentagon official told CNN, "This type of detentions are common practice during armed conflict."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Analyst Patrick Skinner said at Camp Bucca, U.S. commanders tried to separate the most violent and hard core inmates, but he said Bucca was packed with detainees, the Army was short staffed, and no one at the time thought Abu Bakr al Baghdadi would go on to do what he's doing now. A U.S. intelligence official tells us Camp Bucca was not a turning point for Baghdadi. Christi and Victor.

PAUL: Brian Todd, we appreciate it. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Well, now, ISIS is handing out pamphlets, on how to treat female slaves. And we'll talk with our military analyst retired Army Major General James Spider Marks about the stunning details and about how the terror group allegedly started in a U.S. prison camp.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: We just told you about this report from the British newspaper "The Guardian" about how the terror group ISIS became what it is today. We want to bring in Retired Army Major General James Spider Marks. General, thank you so much for being here.

MAJOR GENERAL JAMES SPIDER MARKS (RET), U.S. ARMY: Good morning, Christi.

PAUL: Good morning to you. Listen, I want to get to something first before we get to that report in "The Guardian." As we know, there is a story that's been trending regarding ISIS online. And it says that ISIS fighters are distributing pamphlets in Iraq on how to treat non- Muslim female slaves, that they are to be treated like property, they permit rape, they permit abuse. What do you make of these pamphlets?

MARKS: Well, if we didn't have sufficient reason to be isolating and trying to defeat ISIS, I mean this would be it. This would be the additional justification. Clearly, what this demonstrates is that ISIS has really given the Western coalition and even most importantly, regional partners a clear definition of this incredible barbarous evil that they're perpetrating. And so, what we need to try to do remains as has been taken on, the strategy must be isolate and defeat. Excuse me, make sure that we don't let up on ISIS and don't let it spread. That's the key thing, Christi, it's not let it spread beyond where it is.

PAUL: Well, so with that, let's go back to this report from "The Guardian" here. I want to quote something that the ISIS Jihadi said, and they said, "If there was no American prison in Iraq, there would be no Islamic State now. Bucca was a factory. It made us all. It built our ideology." Do you believe that to be true, general?

MARKS: No, I do not. No, I mean - several factors were at play here. First of all, the leadership of ISIS clearly has its roots back to Saddam Hussein's military leadership, those mid-level, those majors, those lieutenant colonels who were really invested in what Saddam was trying to achieve. And if you'll recall the military that Saddam had created, the military that the United States and its coalition partners fought back in 2003, number one collapsed very quickly but it had been trained and had been partners with a number of Western powers.

These were professionals albeit again they did not fight well in combat, but they had been trained in a way that brought them together. There was very much conventional kind of a Western look to what this military had. And so, these folks ended up in detention centers throughout Iraq.

Also, bear in mind that we entered Iraq back in 2003. The forces were insufficient in number - to really spread out U.S. Forces were insufficient in numbers to really spread out and kind of get a sense of what the environment was like. So, we skinnied down the U.S. force, went in very light, and the only option as we were taking these - this Saddam, this Iraq military units bringing them back in was to put them into detention facilities that were very quickly put together, we were undermanned. So, you had this great collection of aggrieved folks. Professional soldiers didn't like what was happening, were completely convinced their future was gone. So they had - they had grievances, they had challenges. Then we released them several years later and this is what you have.

PAUL: But this is one thing that I thought was really interesting. The ISIS fighters says that the U.S. Army respected who is now ISIS leader al-Baghdadi, as if he was seen as a peacemaker between competing groups in prison. So, if that is true and the U.S. respected this man when he was being held, what does that say about what was happening inside those prisons and perhaps U.S. oversight behind those fences?

MARKS: Yeah, what was taking place clearly within all of those detention facilities as I was trying to describe is that there was insufficient oversight and insufficient numbers and in many cases, the only option as we were taking these forces, was to put them into some form of detention. You didn't have the screening and the filtering of these force. Some of them could have been released immediately. Many came together and so you create this turmoil and this chaos and you end up getting some vengeance starting to come to the surface. But when you have a figure like Baghdadi inside a detention facility,

inside a prison, this strong articulate figure that's going to create some goodness that the prison cell - you know, the folks that are running the prison want to see, there's some order inside the fences, then, when you release him, clearly insufficient intelligence locally on the ground to track what his activities are. So, we shouldn't be surprised, but I don't think it's a direct causal link between what was taking place in prisons and ISIS today.

PAUL: And what we are seeing today.

MARKS: There are sufficient - yeah, there are sufficient indicators that there are so many things at play.

PAUL: In other words in your opinion, it is not the U.S.'s fault that ISIS is in existence. General, thank you so much.

MARKS: Well, thanks, Christi.

PAUL: It's OK.

MARKS: Yes. Yes.

PAUL: Thank you so much. We appreciate your time.

MARKS: Let's look at a rare tornado as it hits south Los Angeles. I mean this thing tore off roofs and tossed around debris, it's all part of the wicked dangerous weather out West, we are going to have details about this at the top of the hour.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andy Roddick is a former U.S. circuit champion, and the last American to be the world number one. But it's two years since he played on the (INAUDIBLE), or these days the 32-year old is busy playing team tennis. He's a television sports analyst and he's also the cohost of a podcast. It's been a career change but in many ways, his life is the same.

ANDY RODDICK: The job fits because it's not really - not really anything different than I would do on a normal day if I wasn't employed in sports. You know, I get up and you read the sports pages. And obviously, criticism is part of what you have to do. My role is if the person was sitting across from me when I was comfortable telling him my criticism then I can say it on the air.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Earlier this year, Roddick celebrated his five year wedding anniversary to model and actress Brooklyn Decker, but apparently an acting career is not on the cards for him.

(on camera): You get recognized as Brooklyn Decker's husband or Andy Roddick, the tennis player?

RODDICK: I don't know who I get recognized. Most people think I'm Stifler from "American Pie." That's how I get recognized. Unfortunately, acting for me is something that requires a bit of artistic talent of which I have zero.

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