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New Day Saturday
N. Korea: We Are Being Framed in Sony Attack; Will Sony Release "The Interview"?; Obama Defends New Cuba Policy; D.A.: Ferguson Witnesses Lied to Grand Jury; Will U.S. Be Dragged Into New War in Pakistan?; Ferguson Prosecutor Breaks His Silence; Cubans Celebrate New U.S. Relations
Aired December 20, 2014 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Suzanne Malveaux, in for Christi Paul.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's 7:00 here on the East Coast.
We are starting with that breaking news: For the first time, we are hearing from North Korea about the cyberattack that shocked a movie studio that stunned the U.S., stunned the world, and prompted President Obama to say that dictators cannot tell the U.S. what to do.
MALVEAUX: So, that response from North Korea coming this morning, it is stunning. The reclusive rogue nation is now accusing the United States of framing it. This is according to a state-run news agency. Pyongyang says, and we're quoting here, "America's childish investigation result and its attempt to frame us for this crime shows their hostile tendency towards us."
BLACKWELL: And a reference to hackers who promise another 9/11 if Sony released the equipment "The Interview", Pyongyang says, "We will not tolerate the people who are willing to insult our supreme leader, but even when we retaliate, we will not conduct terror against innocent moviegoers."
MALVEAUX: I want to bring in our Kyung Lah in Seoul, South Korea, to tell us more about what South Korea is saying this morning. It is quite surprising, really.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, they're known for their over the top rhetoric. So, it sort of fits that line. But the fact that they responded to the president so quickly, some pretty good speed for this regime. It's not usually this fast.
So, the first response came via their news Web site, their official Web site. Then, it came on tear evening news. You saw the news anchor in pink and basically what she read through was a lengthy statement responding to President Obama and the FBI investigation, saying that they want to see the evidence, that they are, quote, "being framed" and that they plan on retaliating again as you said not against the moviegoers, but against the originators of the, quote, "insults against our supreme leader".
And this I found quite curious, and we've heard before from the regime in other cases, other cases where they have been accused of lashing out against the United States or South Korea. But they say they want a mutual investigation of what's been happening to Sony. They want to work with America and I want to read one part of the statement saying, quote, "If America refuses our proposal of mutual investigation continues to link us to this case and talk about actions and response, they, America, will be met with serious consequences."
And what those consequences are? North America likes to throw out the flowery language, the direct saber-rattling language, but it's a little thin on details -- Victor, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Real quick, I want to ask a follow-up question here, is this more bluster from North Korea? Do you really think they are trying to engage and up the ante here by responding so quickly as they did?
LAH: It's hard to say. You know, you can watch this regime for years and years and there they're so unpredictable. You don't really know what they are thinking. Other than they are the spoiled child of Asia, they want a lot of attention, this is going to continue the attention that they so pray they are trying to keep it up, that they have in the last year or so, sort of fallen off the global map and recent months jumped right up to the top with this latest hack.
So, certainly, what they want to do, Suzanne, especially as people are starting to settle down and head into the Christmas holiday, they want people to continue to pay attention to them.
MALVEAUX: All right. Kyung Lah, thank you so much. We appreciate it.
Victor, I think it will be interesting to see whether or not the White House or the administration decide to respond to North Korea, or if they just -- you know, sit back and ignore the regime for a while, and not give them the attention that they are looking for.
BLACKWELL: Or we will see any of this evidence that North Korea is calling for.
You know, Sony is now adding some context to that decision to cancel the release of "The Interview." And, of course, we heard President Obama call the decision a mistake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am sympathetic to the concerns that they faced. Having said all that, yes, I think they made a mistake.
MICHAEL LYNTON, CEO, SONY ENTERTAINMENT: We have not caved, we have not given in, we have persevered and we have not backed down. We have -- we have always had every desire to have the American public see this movie. OBAMA: I wish they had spoken to me first. I would have told them,
do not get into a pattern in which you are intimidated by these kinds of criminal attacks.
LYNTON: We definitely spoke to senior adviser or a senior adviser in the White House to talk about the situation. The fact is. Did we talk to the president, himself, and talk to him about what was transpiring as the theater started pulling back? But the White House was certainly aware of the situation.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
MALVEAUX: And now, reports that the company, Sony, is going to try to get this movie seen somehow, in some way.
So, I want to bring in our senior media correspondent Brian Stelter to talk about it.
And, Brian, you saw the comments there from Michael Lynton that he made to our own Fareed Zakaria. Do you think he is making, this change, this flip, if you will, out of embarrassment, out of a fear that they are setting a bad precedent? You know, a lot of people came down on Sony saying this was a bad, bad idea?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You know, you mean the bad idea to make this movie to begin with? And, certainly, Sony is not expressing any regrets about, any regrets about making this plot about Kim Jong-un, instead of a fictional dictator, which was an option they had.
I think what we are hearing from Sony a little defiance. Earlier in the week, they had no choice really but to cancel the movie from its Christmas Day release, that's because all the major theater owners in the United States said they weren't going to show the movie. So, when we hear him say, we did not cave in, a lot of people rolled their eyes and say, obviously, you did cave in, Sony, you cancelled the movie.
But, really, there was a more effective failure, if you will. And that is among all the sorts of companies that were worried Americans wouldn't go to the movie theaters on Christmas Day because they were afraid of some sort of attack. Now we see a reversal of that. Last night, Sony said, we still, it is our hope that anyone who wants to see this movie will get the opportunity to do so.
What they are hinting at is that they are now in talks once again with distributors, trying to find a way to get this movie either into some theaters or to get on online, via Netflix or YouTube or something like that.
MALVEAUX: Do you think it's too late, though? I mean, the damage has already been done.
STELTER: There has been a lot of damage done, and there is a chilling effect on the notion of freedom of expression in Hollywood and in media generally. I do think this movie is going to come out, though, Suzanne. I think this movie is going to come sooner rather than later.
Netflix won't comment on its talks with Sony right now. YouTube has not gotten back with comment. There's a lot of other options as well. Sony even owns a couple different ways it could potentially release the movie. But I think it wants partners. I think it wants to be supported so it's not alone in this fight. It is going to be a fight, but I think this movie is going to come out some way.
BLACKWELL: All right. Brian Stelter, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
The full interview with Sony CEO is going to air tomorrow on "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS", 10:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
The Obamas, they are in Hawaii this morning. The first family is taking a break from Washington and soaking up the sun at a beach front home in Honolulu. They'll be there about two weeks.
MALVEAUX: And it is the annual tradition for the family, it even started, of course, before the White House the president growing up in Hawaii. There are no official events on the president's scheduled, but it's usually does a working holiday. We are sure he's going to catch a couple rounds of golf as well.
BLACKWELL: All right. So, before the president headed out to a much there was business to take care of in Washington. Including, how to respond to the cyber attack on Sony by North Korea.
Erin McPike is at the White House this morning.
Erin, give us some clarity about what the president had to say.
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, as you know, President Obama has been dealing with a number of foreign policy headaches and major national security crisis throughout the year, but now with the FBI directly blaming North Korea for this hacking, President Obama has yet another major international issue where he can leave a mark that he wasn't expecting at all.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OBAMA: We take them with the outmost seriousness.
MCPIKE (voice-over): Condemning what he called a cyber assault from North Korea, in his year-end press conference, President Obama called out Sony Pictures for pulling the movie "The Interview" following threats to theaters.
OBAMA: Sony is a corporation. It, you know, suffered significant damage. There were threats against its employees. I am sympathetic to the concerns that they faced. Having said all that, yes, I think they made a mistake.
MCPIKE: He insisted American citizens and businesses cannot be bullied into a pattern of censorship, and promised retaliation against North Korea. OBAMA: They caused a lot of damage and we will respond. We will
respond proportionally and we will respond in a place and time and manner that we choose.
MCPIKE: He also defended his most recent sweeping initiative. This week's surprise move to normalize relations with Cuba.
OBAMA: What I know deep in my bones is that if you have done the same thing for 50 years and nothing's changed, you should try something different if you want a different outcome.
MCPIKE: The administration hopes its action by hoping to bring more Western business to the Western communist nation will open it up.
OBAMA: It offers the prospect of telecommunications and the Internet being more widely available in ways that it hasn't been before. And over time, that chips away at this hermetically sealed society.
MCPIKE: And after a frenzied year's end, he's got his game face on for the last two years to come.
OBAMA: My presidency is entering the fourth quarter. Interesting stuff happens in the fourth quarter, and I'm looking forward to it. But, you know, going into the fourth quarter, you usually get a time out. I am looking to a quiet timeout, Christmas with my family.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCPIKE: And President Obama said he is going to take this time to recharge but that he is ready to work with Republicans when he comes back in January, Suzanne and Victor.
BLACKWELL: All right. Erin McPike at the White House for us -- thank you.
MALVEAUX: A new shocker this morning in the shooting death of Ferguson teenager Michael Brown. In his first extensive interview since the grand jury cleared former Officer Darren Wilson last month in Brown's death, the D.A. who prosecuted the case says some of the witnesses obviously lied under oath, but he let them testify anyway. St. Louis prosecutor Robert McCulloch said during a radio interview with KTRS yesterday, that he had no regrets about letting the grand jury hear from non-credible witnesses. McCulloch says those witnesses will not face perjury charges.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ROBERT MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS PROSECUTOR: There were people who came in and, yes, absolutely lied under oath. Some lied to the FBI, even though they're not under oath, that's another potential offense, a federal offense, but I thought it was much more important to present the entire pick and say, listen, this is what this witness says he saw, even though there was a building between where the witness says he was and the events occurred. So they couldn't have seen that, or the physical evidence didn't support what the witness is saying. It was on, you know, it went both directions. I thought it was much more important that the grand jury hear everything, what the people have to say. They're in a perfect position to assess the credibility, which is what jurors do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And as for the time of when the decision was announced, McCulloch said he had no regrets. The late night announcement of the grand jury decision triggered riots and violent protests in the streets of Ferguson. It also sparked nationwide peaceful demonstrations.
BLACKWELL: Erin McPike spoke about it just a couple of moments ago, this new era in U.S. relations with Cuba, President Obama kind of reopening relations with that country. But how will this new overseas relationship the impact us? We'll talk about it.
MALVEAUX: Plus, Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps is not going to jail for drunk driving. We're going to tell you what the judge told him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: This last news conference of the year, the president gave Congress a specific request for 2015 -- lift the U.S. embargo on Cuba. The request caps a landmark week if which the president opened up diplomatic relations with the island nation after more than 50 years. It a historic thaw, one of the last remaining vestiges of the Cold War.
I want to talk about this with CNN En Espanol contributor Dan Restrepo.
And -- who is also an advisor to the president on Latin-American issues. So, Dan, Republicans told Congress that's coming into power in January, it does not look like from what we've heard from those Republican lawmakers that an embargo would be lifted. Do you see that as something that's likely to even happen?
DAN RESTREPO, CNN EN ESPANOL CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's unlikely to happen in this coming conference. The president says he believes it should be lifted, but he didn't hold out a whole lot of hope this was going to be high on Congress's list. And although, there are divisions within the Republican Party on this, the loudest voices are those who oppose what the president did the past week as well as going any further than that.
And I think at the end of the day, inertia on lifting the core of the embargo will carry the day, at least for the foreseeable future.
(CROSSTALK)
MALVEAUX: Go ahead.
BLACKWELL: What's the impact moving here as we move ahead to 2015? The president says he's in his fourth quarter and interesting things happen. Looking into the run for the White House in 2016, what should we expect and what are we hearing from some of the potential candidates?
RESTREPO: We are hearing different things from potential candidates. On the Democratic side, former Secretary of State Clinton was supportive of what the president did. She had been out on this position for a while.
On the Republican side, Marco Rubio forcefully has come out against what the president has done, and saying that he's going to fight what the president has done with the last -- you know, the core of his sole. But then you had Rand Paul supporting what the president has done.
So it's a bit of a mixed bag on the Republican side. And I think this is reflective of where you find the Cuban-American community. There is a real generational difference between Cuban-American, polling is starting to come out shows the community pretty much 50-50 split on whether they support or oppose what the president did overall.
But the generational change is stark. Folks over 65 are very opposed to what the president did and younger folks within the Cuban-American community, particularly U.S.-born Cuban Americans, are very supportive of what the president did.
So, I think it's a bit of a wash within electoral politics going forward.
MALVEAUX: Dan, speak to that, because I think you bring up a good point here. You talk about the generational divide. How does that help or hurt when it comes to the Democrats and who and Republicans who are both competing over the Hispanic population in that particularly important voting bloc in 2016?
RESTREPO: I mean, this is particularly important for Cuban Americans. It doesn't have a whole lot of impact on other Hispanics. So, this means this is particularly important in Florida.
And the interesting thing we've seen over the course of the last several election cycles in Florida, is that the Cuban-American vote has been migrating towards Democrats. President Obama in 2012 was the first Democrat to win the Cuban-American vote in a presidential election since before President Kennedy, really, a sense existed in the United States.
Charlie Crist just won the Cuban-American vote in Florida, while losing the gubernatorial race, despite coming out in favor of lifting the embargo an entertaining the idea of going to Cuba during the campaign.
So, the Cuban-American vote has changed and it's that generational change, right? The folks who are most against change in Cuba policy are folks who, you know, there is no delicate way of saying this, 10,000 of them are dying every week in Florida, folks over the age of 65. Whereas the younger cohorts among Cuban Americans, particularly in Florida, are very supportive.
They have a different relationship with the island. They have either they came much more recently or they were born here, and this is -- the kind of the Castro thing, if you will, is something they inherited from their parents. And they see that it hasn't worked, that U.S. policy over the years hasn't worked and they're willing to entertain a different approach.
I think the president was speaking to that cohort and that future in making the decisions that he announced this week.
BLACKWELL: That makes it difficult for Republicans to speak in one unifying voice after Mitt Romney earned a fewer percentage of the Hispanic vote than John McCain did, who got less than George Bush did. So, especially the younger vote as well as we talk about that grouping in Florida.
Dan Restrepo, thank you so much.
RESTREPO: Thank you. .
MALVEAUX: If you are hitting the road this weekend for the holidays, you should beware, there is some winter rough weather headed your way. It could mean major delays.
Plus, the highest court clears the lands for another state to begin allowing same-sex marriages.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Welcome back to NEW DAY. It is a busy day of news.
Here is your "Morning Read".
BLACKWELL: Twenty-three minutes after the hour.
Olympic swimming champion Michael Phelps will not spend time in jail after being arrested for drunk driving. But the judge warned him another slip up could put him in the detention center. He also ordered Phelps to refrain from alcohol and undergo mandatory screening.
MALVEAUX: A woman in Australia has been arrested on suspicion of killing eight children. Seven of the children were her own, and one was her niece. Some of the victims were believed to be stabbed. The 37-year-old suspect is now under police guard at a hospital.
BLACKWELL: The U.S. Supreme Court has cleared the way for same-sex marriages in Florida. It turned down a request to block same-sex marriages while the state appeals the judge's order that the ban is unconstitutional. Same sex couples in Florida can begin to marry on January 6th.
MALVEAUX: In sports, the college football bowl season is kicking off today. In just a few hours, Nevada takes on Louisiana Lafayette at the New Orleans Bowl. Teams are also taking the field in the New Mexico Bowl and Las Vegas Bowl, the famous Idaho Potato Bowl, and finally the Camellia Bowl. BLACKWELL: It's going to be a wet weekend for holiday travelers.
Heavy rain is expected to push into parts of the South. Meanwhile, people in the Northeast could see up to three inches of snow by tomorrow. It doesn't look much better moving into Christmas week. storm systems are expected to hit the Great Lakes and the Southeast.
The U.S. is already fighting an air war against ISIS in Iraq and Afghanistan. Will it be dragged into another war in Pakistan?
Plus, no regrets. St. Louis prosecutor Robert McCulloch is finally speaking out about the controversial decision not to indict Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson. Up next, why he says he let witnesses he knew were lying testify in front of the grand jury.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Here's a look at your mortgage rates.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLACKWELL: Approaching the bottom of the hour now. There are stunning new claims this morning by North Korea.
MALVEAUX: The rogue nation says it is being framed by the U.S. as a culprit in the cyberattack at Sony Pictures. Now, according to North Korea's state-run central news agency, Pyongyang says, and we are quoting here, "Whoever is going to frame our country for a crime should present concrete evidence. If America refuses our proposal of mutual investigations, continues to link us to this case and talk about our actions in response, they will be met with serious consequences."
BLACKWELL: All this is coming as the CEO of Sony pictures fired back at President Obama for saying Sony should not have cancelled "The Interview's" release in theaters.
Michael Lynton spoke with CNN's Fareed Zakaria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": The president says Sony made a mistake in pulling the film. Did you make a mistake?
LYNTON: No, I think actually the unfortunate part is in this instance the president, the press and the public are mistaken as to what actually happened. We do not own movie theaters. We cannot determine whether or not a movie will be played in movie thigh territories. So, to sort of rehearse for moment the sequence of events, we experienced the worst cyberattack in American history and persevered for three- and-a-half weeks under enormous stress and enormous difficulty and all with the effort of trying to keep our business up and running and get this movie out into the public.
When it came to the crucial moment when a threat came out from what was called the GOP at the time, threatening audiences who would two to the movie theaters, the movie theaters came to us one by one over the course of a very short period of time, we were completely surprised by it and announced they would not carry the movie.
At that point in time, we had no alternative but to not proceed with a theatric release on the 25th of September. And that's all we did.
ZAKARIA: So, you have not caved in your view?
LYNTON: We have not caved, we have not given in, we have persevered, and we have not backed down. We have -- we have always had every desire to have the American public see this movie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You can see more of Michael Lynton's interview on "FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS", 10:00 a.m. Eastern, Sunday, right here on CNN.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: And now to Pakistan, where Pakistani security forces say they have killed at least five Taliban insurgents, including a key commander in and around Peshawar. Now, this comes as thousands come out to protest the deadly Taliban attacks on an army school in Peshawar that killed 145 people, 132 of them children.
So, will U.S. forces now be drawn more deeply into aiding Islamabad and fighting the Pakistani Taliban?
I want to bring in our CNN political analyst and "Bloomberg" columnist, Josh Rogin, who says that this is not pretty.
And, Josh, of course, we know this is not good. When you see something like that, right, when you see that a terrorist organization, a group like that can kill 132 children, where are we in this? I mean, does it not force the United States to drawing much more closely working with Pakistan against the Taliban in that country?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, when it comes to Pakistan, every time you try pull out, they pull you back in. And President Obama has been trying to extricate the U.S. from lots of different wars, including the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
But what we know now is that this battle between the Pakistan military and the Pakistani Taliban will only get worse. It's going to escalate in Pakistan. It's demanding and asking for U.S. assistance. That assistance can come in a number of forms. It can be intelligence, it can be money, weapons, it can weapons, it can be drone strikes on the Taliban leaders, and the fatwa, which is one of the best ways of getting at them. And the U.S. will definitely feel compelled to assist.
There is a debate inside the Obama administration as to whether the Pakistani Taliban is really a threat to the United States or just a threat to Pakistan. But either way, there is no way we can refuse the help. And just as America was trying to ramp down the president's vote in Pakistan, this new conflict shows we are going to be in it for a while and possibly our involvement will be increasing. MALVEAUX: Josh, what do you think of the fact that Pakistan as a
player with the United States? You know, covering the Bush administration, I know President Bush, he really had a hard time, there was a really difficult relationship with Pakistan, whether or not he could actually trust the leadership if that country. And I assume and I imagine President Obama is going to have the same issue.
ROGIN: I mean, look how far -- it's exactly right. Look how far we've come since 9-11. There was this huge effort both in the Bush administration and Obama administration to reshape the U.S. relations from Pakistan, we were going to give them all of this aid, give them billions and billions and billions of military assistance. The idea was to turn the U.S.-Pakistan relationship into something special. That failed. No one thinks that anymore.
The Pakistan military has been playing both sides of the coin -- on the one hand, fighting the Pakistani Taliban, and on the other hand, assisting the Afghan Taliban. And the U.S. is fed up with that.
So, no longer are we talking about a new strategic relationship with Pakistan. No longer are we talking about a Pakistan that loves the United States.
MALVEAUX: Yes. Right.
ROGIN: Now, it's about killing terrorists. And that's what the mission is now.
MALVEAUX: Yes. So, Josh, let's talk a little bit about what this means for Afghanistan the mount says he's going to keep nearly 10,000 troops there next year, but he's going to cut that number in half by 2016, complete withdrawal by 2017. So, if you've got more engagements, potentially more engagements with the Taliban and Pakistan, does that spill over? Does that have an impact on what we do in Afghanistan?
ROGIN: Yes, I think it cuts both ways. You know, the less troops we have in Afghanistan the less we need Pakistan, because remember, we needed Pakistan to transit goods back and forth to Pakistan. And we needed Pakistan to stop interfering in Afghanistan. And that's what the Pakistanis do, they sponsor the Afghan Taliban to give themselves strategic depth inside Afghanistan. That becomes less and less important.
At the same time, the less troops we have there, the less influence we have there and less tools we have there. And that means we have to resort to other things. That means we have to support the Pakistanis and the Afghan government, frankly, with money, with guns, with intelligence, with drones.
So, this is a shift in the way the United States operates in that region. It's less about troops. It's less about nation-building. It's more about killing terrorists. It's more about supporting those domestic forces as their fight against the terrorists goes on.
MALVEAUX: Yes, that's right. Josh, thank you so much for your time this morning. Appreciate it.
ROGIN: Any time. Thank you.
BLACKWELL: All right. It's been close to a month since the grand jury decided not to indict embattled Officer Darren Wilson over the shooting death of teenager Michael brown. Well, now, the D.A. who prosecuted the case, he is speaking out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: For the first time since a grand jury decided not to indict Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of the unarmed teenager Michael Brown, we are hearing from the D.A. who prosecuted the case, Michael McCulloch.
BLACKWELL: All right. So, on Friday, during a radio interview with KTRS, McCulloch said some witnesses lied to the grand jury but will not face perjury charges. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ROBERT MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS PROSECUTOR: There were people who came in, yes, absolutely lied under oath. Some lied to the FBI. Even though they're not under oath, that's another potential offense, a federal offense, but I thought it was much more fortunate present the entire picture and say, this is what this witness says he saw. Even though there was a building between where the witness says he was and where the events occurred. So they couldn't catch him. Or the physical evidence didn't support what the witness is saying. And it was armed. It went both directions.
I thought it was much more important that the going hear everything what the people have to say. And they're in a perfect position to assess the credibility, which is what jurors do.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: All right. So, we got CNN legal analyst and former prosecutor Paul Callan with us.
Paul, McCulloch says he invited people to testify before the grand jury who were lying and he knew that what they were saying was untrue. Is that typical?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I wouldn't say it's typical, but, you know, there are a lot of misconceptions about this grand jury stuff because grand juries are secret. Every county in America, and there are thousands of counties, have grand juries. They're all operated slightly differently and the federal system has grand juries, and they operate their grand juries one way as opposed to other systems.
And that, basically, Victor, I think, you have three kind of situations with the grand jury. And I presented cases to grand juries myself as a prosecutor.
One is, were you looking to get an indictment? In that kind of a case, the prosecutor just goes in with a few witnesses to make out a bare bones case and gets an indictment. He doesn't put too much on record because he's -- you know, he wants to save that for trial.
Second kind of case is, it's a clear cut dismissal. And it's the same thing. You kind of do a bare bones presentation, slanting the evidence towards a dismissal.
This falls into the third category, which is an investigative grand jury and the prosecutor is kind of putting his hands up in the air and saying, I'm going to leave this entirely up to the grand jury, and I'm putting everything in front of the grand jury. And they have a right to hear everything if they want to. Is it unusual? Yes, it is. You don't usually see this kind of grand jury, but not unprecedented.
I will tell you, for instance, in Manhattan, virtually, all cop shootings are investigated this way. They throw everything in front of a grand jury, even witnesses that they think are probably not telling the truth.
And then they allow, you know, cross examination in the grand jury by the grand jurors and the D.A. of the witnesses who are not being truthful. So, it's unusual. But it does happen in some grand juries in America.
BLACKWELL: So, McCulloch goes a step further and says that those who lie to the grand jury will not face perjury charges. Should they?
CALLAN: Well, that's a close question, but I think he is being pragmatic about the situation, because remember there are over 60 witnesses that testified in the grand jury, and a lot of them told lies. I mean, there's a lot of talk about one of the -- particular one, witness 40, in the press last couple of days, a woman who is obviously racist, and gave a version favorable to the officer, which was a lie.
But on the other hand, there were witnesses favorable to the Brown's version who said Mr. Brown had been shot in the back, which he wasn't, according to autopsy, and other people who couldn't even see the scene and later said that somebody had told them what happened. So, if he started prosecuting everybody who told a lie in front of that grand jury, I don't think they'd be prosecuting crimes in St. Louis for the next year. There'd be so many people being indicted for perjury. So, it's rare that this is done.
Now, could it be done, Victor? It absolutely could be done. And he has a right as a prosecutor to proceed against anybody who lied under oath. But from a practical stand point --
BLACKWELL: Yes.
CALLAN: -- if he indicts one, he's got to indict them all. And I don't think he's going to do that.
BLACKWELL: Paul, quickly, one other element that I think a lot of people were confused about is the timing of the announcement. McCulloch offers some clarity. He said during this interview, "There was no good time to announce this, whatever was going to happen was going to happen. We knew that very early on. But I did work closely with law enforcement."
What's your response to that? This was announced at 8:00 or 9:00 p.m., when they knew the most destructive, when they were destructive, protests and demonstrations were at night?
CALLAN: You know, I don't -- it's really, I think the way it went down is absolutely terrible. It's very easy in retrospect to say it was a foolish decision, a decision that cost a lot of property and a lot of injury in St. Louis.
But on the other hand, you know, if he had announced it during the day and there were kids out on the street and maybe the schools were opened or the churches were opened, there would have been another round of criticism against him. It seems to me whenever this was going to be announced, there was going to be trouble in the streets. I'm not so sure it's fair to criticize him.
And also, he was working with coordination with the governor and the National Guard and everything else. So, I'm not too quick to jump on him for that. I think it was a hard decision by a public official.
BLACKWELL: All right. Paul Callan --Paul, thank you so much.
And, you know, there are, Suzanne, so many people had questions about why the governor issued this state of emergency, so many days before the announcement. Then, the night of the announcement, where was the National Guard?
MALVEAUX: It didn't make a lot of sense actually. Yes. Well, he is trying to explain himself at this point.
President Obama, he is easing travel restrictions to Cuba. But before you start packing your bags and calling up your travel agent, there's probably a few things you need to know.
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BLACKWELL: Cuban President Raul Castro is expected to speak in just a few hours. He will address the Cuban national assembly.
President Obama says Castro did a lot of talking during their historic phone call this week. The leaders agreed to open diplomatic relations after more than 50 years of estrangement.
Let's turn to CNN's Rosa Flores now in Havana, Cuba.
Do we know, Rosa, what President Castro will say?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, right now, it's unclear exactly how much he would be expanding on those U.S.-Cuban relations. And, of course, that's what everybody wants to know right now.
But let me point out something fascinating. So, I'm standing in Havana right now, take a look at the beautiful horizon behind me. Just 90 miles from where I'm standing, that's where Southern Florida is. So, it's fascinating that so much separates these two countries, yet, geographically, they are so close together.
Now, Victor, I've got to tell you, I have been out in the streets of Havana, talking to lots of Cuban. And overall, there is euphoria between the U.S. and Cuba. But now, they're also a little measured and I'll get to that in just a moment.
But, first of all, so, why are people so excited? Well, this could mean more remittances into this country, so more money flowing in from the United States to family members here in Cuba. They are very excited about that. That helps them make ends meet first of all.
Then, visitors, Americans coming into Cuba. What does that mean for them? Well, it means more tourists buying trinkets and mementos, tipping people. And we know that Americans are very good tippers. That also means possibly bring figure building materials, strengthening the communication system, which is very weak here in Cuba.
And so, that has people ecstatic on the streets. Here are what some of them had to say.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We celebrate. We think -- we are very happy. We're friends.
FLORES: Asking, so who thinks it is a good idea for the U.S. and Cuba to establish relations?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For my country, for my people, and many -- something about technology, Internet, many, we need it. We need it for survival.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: Now, Cubans are also measuring their enthusiasm for a few reasons. First of all, they know that this is a very controversial issue in the United States especially in Congress. So, they are keeping a close eye about the news coming out of the United States.
Now, the other thing is, back to Raul's speech today, they are hoping he can expand more on the details, how this would impact their daily life.
Victor, we don't know that right now, but that's what people are hoping to hear -- Victor.
BLACKWELL: All right. We'll see how he expands upon what he said a couple days ago on television.
Rosa Flores in Havana for us -- thank you so much.
MALVEAUX: All right. Cuban beaches, cigars, now that President Obama is easing travel restrictions even more may not be much longer before you can enjoy both. Right now, travel only allowed under 12 existing categories, including family, religious, cultural, humanitarian, professional, and educational visits.
But tourist travel to the nation just 90 miles from Florida remains banned. It can only be changed by Congress. So what will the loosened restrictions mean for all of us?
Mark Murphy, he is the author of "Travel Unscripted". He is live in New York.
So, Mark, thanks for joining us this morning.
You know, a lot of people are very curious, they want to go. How soon could they see the beach and maybe take in a cigar?
MARK MURPHY, AUTHOR, "TRAVEL UNSCRIPTED": Not any time soon.
MALVEAUX: No?
MURPHY: Other than the programs you just talked about, because it's really an elitist destination, because it's so expensive. It could cost as much as $4,000 to go. And it's a cultural program. That's the people to people program. That's the way you get there.
Plenty of tour operators offer it, so you can definitely go, and if you do it legally, there are still those restrictions in place in terms of spending money and doing things like that, although that's going to ease up quite a bit going forward.
MALVEAUX: OK. So, I love the beach. I love the sun. Not cigars so much.
But what would be the possibilities. You know, if we looked out over the horizon and we talking about cruises, are we talking about the possibilities of even booking online at some point?
MURPHY: Well, this is a great destination, unknown by Americans for more than 50 years now. So, they want to go and it has intrigue. It's going to bring an influx of people back to that part of the world. You know, a lot of people have done the Caribbean, they've done cruises. This will get more people going back to explore Cuba.
It's not going to happen soon because there's a host of issues, first they have to go through Congress. Will Congress let this go? I don't know right now.
So, it's going to be a bit of a battle. I think it's a good step in the right direction. And then, eventually, cruise lines will build piers. There will be infrastructure that has to happen, because right now, I don't think they could handle it.
MALVEAUX: And we know the branch of the State Department that's overseeing these changes, they expect that they're going to issue some sort of revised rules in the coming weeks. What do we expect is going to come out of that department? What will they say? MURPHY: I think you're going to find that the licensing that you have
to do and it takes a little bit of time, three to four months, to get the license, in order to go, it's not a spur of the moment destination, unless you go their illegally, because a lot of Americans will go through Canada or Mexico and go there now. But that's illegal. You're not allowed to do that.
If you go through the proper channels, through the proper tour operators, you have to get licensed. And that I think is going to be eased. That's what they are talking about. So, it's going to be much easier in terms of the process.
Then if you can do it, once we start opening up the flood gates, if you would, then more and more people are going to be able to go.
MALVEAUX: Yes, and then we anticipate probably cheaper as well.
Mark Murphy, thank you.
MURPHY: Well --
MALVEAUX: Yes?
MURPHY: It's going to be more expensive out of the gate because it's going to create demand and therefore, you know, supply won't grow, prices are going to go way up if they open this up. And it's going to damage our neighbors in the north who see Cuba as a great value destination.
MALVEAUX: OK, good to know. Good to know.
Mark, thank you. Appreciate it. We'll see. It will be a little while before we get over there. Thanks again.
Justin Bieber -- yes, we're talking about Justin Bieber, got a lump of coal in his stocking courtesy of an Instagram purge.
BLACKWELL: Yes, the pop star lost millions of online followers. We'll tell you why just ahead.
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MALVEAUX: The five things to know for your NEW DAY.
BLACKWELL: Number one, a West Virginia family is suing the Bob Evans chain saying meatloaf their parents ate at one of the restaurants killed the couple.
So, listen to this. The children of Virginia and Harold Starcher, they say their parents became violently ill after eating the meal and died a few months later. This happened in 2012. Bob Evans says the suit is, quote, "entirely without merit."
MALVEAUX: Two, terror on a Georgia freeway after a FedEx truck slams into a police car. You're going to watch this here. You can see an officer getting out of his vehicle to make a routine traffic stop, when he returns to the car, however, a FedEx trailer barrels into his vehicle. This according to WGCL, rescue teams had to use the Jaws of Life to pull the driver from the truck after it overturned.
Officials say the driver failed to stay in his lane. There is no word yet on his condition. The police officer was not seriously injured.
BLACKWELL: Number three, a woman in California will be spending Christmas in jail after being arrested for allegedly stealing Christmas presents from neighborhood doorsteps, and it's the second time she's been caught, police say. They say Martha Lampley was out on bail when they caught her swiping presents again.
The first time around police discovered that a vault had been created full of all of this. Look -- clothes and Jewelry, those shoes.
MALVEAUX: Unbelievable.
Number four, Justin Bieber's popularity waning at least on Instagram. The site says it deleted millions of spam accounts in what many are calling the Instagram rapture.
BLACKWELL: What?
MALVEAUX: Oh, yes.
OK. Bieber lost about 3.5 million followers. That's about 15 percent of his follower base.
BLACKWELL: All right. Number five, Super Saturday, otherwise known as the last Saturday before Christmas, one retail watcher estimates $10 billion will be spent today alone.
Stores like Macy's, Kohl's, they'll be open nearly nonstop until Christmas. While Amazon and Best Buy, stretching out dates for guaranteed delivery by Christmas.
For folks who haven't started their shopping yet.
MALVEAUX: That might be me. I'll get it done.
BLACKWELL: I wasn't going to name anybody.
MALVEAUX: You named me last hour.
BLACKWELL: We want to put it out there.
MALVEAUX: All right.
BLACKWELL: Hey, stay with us.
MALVEAUX: You might not get a gift.
BLACKWELL: We've got a busy morning of news.
MALVEAUX: The next hour of your NEW DAY starts now.
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Significant damage, there were threats against its employees, so I think they made a mistake.
LYNTON: The president, the press and the public --
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BLACKWELL: A surprise statement from North Korea as President Obama puts the rogue nation on notice. There will be a response after hackers bring down the Sony network and force the cancellation of the upcoming movie, "The Interview."
MALVEAUX: Plus, it's a new look -- Ray Rice and his then fiance moments after that now infamous attack in an elevator of an Atlantic City casino as they end in handcuffs.
BLACKWELL: And travel headaches, crowded airports, packed roads, this weekend, the last weekend before Christmas is going to be trouble.
