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New Day Saturday

Security in Europe High Amid Terror Fears; Secretary of State Meets with French Officials

Aired January 17, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Terror in Europe. Security high as many as 20 sleeper cells hoist to strike in France, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary of State, John Kerry, is back from Paris, meeting with leaders now and then laid a wreath at makeshift memorial for victims of the terror attacks, trying to let France know, they've got a friend in the U.S.

BLACKWELL: And listen, this threat is not confined to Europe. The FBI is tracking dozens of Americans training in Syria for potential strike for potential strikes on U.S. soil.

PAUL: All righty. It is Saturday morning and we're so grateful for your company as always. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Absolutely great to have you in our new home. We'll talk more about that in just a moment. It's 7:00 on the East coast, let's get right to CNN's Pamela Brown, live in Paris. Pamela?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to both of you, Victor and Christi. Brussels wants the CIA's help to track down the mastermind of an alleged plot to assassinate police in Belgium streets. It's thought that they're linked to ISIS and even fought for the terror group in Syria. Armed troops are patrolling the streets of Brussels this morning as we speak. And this follows sweeping terror raids in Belgium, France, and Germany. More than two dozen people were detained in all three countries.

But the threat is far from over. Just days after the deadly terror shootings in Paris, a western intelligence source telling CNN, as many as 20 sleeper cells up to 180 terrorists could be poised to strike across much of Europe.

We are covering this from all angles for you. Let's begin with Ivan Watson in Brussels, Belgium. Ivan, I understand the security has stepped up there this morning.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDEONT: That's right, Pamela. Belgian's woke up to a very unusual seen this morning, and that was army trucks disgorging Belgian soldiers, troops onto the streets. We've seen them here in Brussels basically posted outside Jewish buildings, outside a Jewish museum that was hit in a terrorist attack, a deadly terrorist attack last May that killed four people. Also outside the great synagogue of Europe here in Brussels where Jewish services are continuing as usual.

Now, this is coming some 48 hours after Belgium police carried out a raid in the Eastern Belgium town of Verviers, and their suspect opened fire on the police, two of them were killed, a third arrested. Belgium authorities are not revealing their names two days later, too, as they put it, protect the investigation.

Take a listen to what the federal prosecutor had to say about that raid and those suspects

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC VAN DER SYPT, BELGIUM FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: We cannot say that any U.S. interest are involved or were target by this group. This group, for we know, now was especially targeting Belgian police and plan to kill Belgian policemen in the street or in buildings where Belgian police is housed. They, especially, we're planning to assassinate policemen. I know that in the press there has been rumors about -- of kidnapping people and beheading people but we can -- at this stage of the investigation, we cannot confirm that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: Chilling allegations there, Pamela. And even more so when you consider the fact that the Belgian police say that not only did they find Kalashnikov assault rifles and explosives in the hands of those suspects, but they also found police uniforms which could have been used to infiltrate and do damage to the police.

Now, look, this is one of the army trucks, as you can see, armed soldiers there that are now patrolling the streets here of Brussels. We have reports that the army have also fanned out in Antwerp in a Jewish diamond district of that city as the Belgium authorities continue to try their hunt down of some these suspects. They're not revealing the names. What they do suspect that the man that were involved in that deadly raid had been to Syria. They do not believe that there are any links to the deadly Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris where you are right now. Pamela.

BROWN: Ivan Watson, thank you for the latest there in Belgium.

Meantime, Secretary of State John Kerry back in the U.S. this morning after visiting Paris. And during the trip, he met with French President Francois Hollande, and conveyed this quote, "and heartfelt condolences of Americans." Kerry also laid wreaths at the attack site where -- and the kosher supermarket.

I want to bring in now CNN's Isa Soares. Isa has been following the story here in Paris. We know at least 12 people have been arrested here in France since the Charlie Hebdo attack. Can you tell us what we know more about the suspects? Actually, we're going to get Isa actually, coming up a little b it later, but let's move on to some more news that we are following.

As we said, we're following this from all angles. Our Nick Paton Walsh in Yemen, he has been following the angle there. We know that one of the brothers, one of the Kouachi brothers actually trained in Yemen alongside AQAP back in 2011.

Here's more from Nick Paton Walsh.

OK. We're going to get to Nick Paton Walsh in a little bit. And before we get there, let's bring in Lieutenant General, CNN Military analyst Mark Hertling. A lot of arrest in the last 48 hours, Mark do you think officials are getting any good information because of course, the big concern is that there are other terrorists out there right now.

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Pamela, I know there are good information. There's a great group of military analyst and civilian analyst, three-letter agencies all throughout Europe. And I think the combination of the sharing with other European governments and also the sharing with our three-letter agencies back in the United States provides some great opportunities for really locking down these cells and these networks.

You know, you mentioned earlier there could be up to -- between 120 and 180 of these individuals, I would suggest there's probably more, but these are the ones we know about. There's a program that started a few years ago called Wolf Spotter in Europe, and it was specifically geared to look after these lone wolves or maybe a little higher up, semi-organized cells to do these kind of things that were coming back from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. And they've provided some very good intelligence over the last few years, Pamela.

BROWN: And that's a really interesting point you make. I know that -- we learned that they're looking for more terrorists who might be connected to the cell in Belgium. But our sources are also telling us that they released a couple of people arrested in Belgium. What happens then? Do you stay on them? Are they under surveillance? What is your take on that?

HERTLING: Just like any other terrorist cell or any other network, if it's a -- if it falls into the category of person of interest, you're going to continue to watch these individual. And what's even better is they know they're being watched, so they're a little bit more careful. And I think probably what happened in the Belgium attack is after the Paris attacks, there was probably a lot more chatter on the network. And there were some things happening, saying, "Hey, it's time to go now." And the Belgic authorities, both the police and the government said, "Let's put the hammer down now and let's strike and get these cells."

There may not have been anything that ticked them off. They knew that an attack might be coming because of what occurred in Paris, so the Belgic police quickly executed the raids and are targeting. But they've been watching these individuals, these persons of interests for several months likely.

BROWN: Very concerning. We learned that even though it doesn't appear there is a connection between the Paris attacks, one Belgium source tell me that what happened here may have precipitated the raid there. The concerns that others will be embolden to act.

Thank you so much for sharing your perspective, we appreciate it.

HERTLING: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: And now I want to bring in CNN's Isa Soares. About those 12 people that were arrested here in France, you've been so busy reporting on this. We're going to come to you a little bit earlier but you have some new information about the 12 suspects and how they may have been involved in the massacres, right?

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, yes. So, you know, just reminding you that this happened last night, in the cover of darkness. Those 12 people still, we're told this hour, in custody. And they are eight men, four women. All suspects of having some sort of role, some sort of link with Coulibaly, helping him in -- whether in logistics, whether that means taking him to the kosher store. If you remember that four suspects believed to have driven him or helping him with the flat, or indeed with weapons.

And what, basically, (inaudible) reporting, very well-know newspaper, reporting that authorities are telling them that there's a link in terms of DNA. DNAs being linked, one, to the weapons that Souleymane Coulibaly at the store - so linking Coulibaly with some of the suspects. Two, the weapons in that apartment, he had a second apartment. We found a stash of weapons and then a flag, ISIS flag, also linking some of the suspect's DNA to Coulibaly, and as well as the Reno. There was a reno (pg), there was a rental (ph) car that belonged to Coulibaly. There is evidence there to some of these people, as well as the four suspects, if you remember, have a motorbike key -- family apartment but also their car.

Now this man believed to be on the run. Believed to be in Syria. So, you're starting to get an idea of the intelligence that authorities are chasing, but still as a puzzle -- pieces of the puzzle come together, the picture that we get is so complex and more questions being asked every stage.

BROWN: And we know that these 12 are just under investigation, being questioned.

SOARES: Right.

BROWN: But it seems like at this point, we don't know whether they were actually complicit, willingly providing logistic whole support or unwillingly providing that support. I want to talk about Cherif and Said Kouachi, the suspects here, we know one of them is laid to rest. We've been speaking to his lawyer. What can you tell us about that?

SOARES: Now, if you remember two days or so ago, the wife of Cherif Kouachi said she wanted both brothers to be buried together in Gennevilliers, but under French law, you can only be buried in a place where you grew up. So, only Cherif grow up Gennevilliers, not to Said, so they said no to Said. And then the Mayor of Reims where Said grew up said yesterday on television, "No, I don't want him to be buried here" but of course he didn't have a choice because we've learned overnight that Said Kouachi has indeed been buried overnight, there was no imam. It was just his wife that was present. It wasn't -- no authorities as well.

So - and in his grave, unmarked of fear that the mayor that would be any sort of activity and destroying the -- obviously the burial site. So that we're getting. We do not know when Cherif Kouachi will be buried but we've been told by authorities that he'll be buried in Gennevilliers.

BROWN: And in the wake of all of this, there real is still the sense of fear. People (inaudible) here in France, I know when I arrived here yesterday, checked into my hotel, they checked my bag, there was someone there with, you know, checking my bags, making sure there was...

SOARES: Same happen to me, same happen to me, you know. When you go to any store, they asked (inaudible) buying the shops that you wouldn't expect. Down -- even down here in the Chandelier Bay (ph), it just such popular area, but you look around and you see police and police and soldiers and heavily armed as well, this is something that Parisians are not used to. And any little sound just triggers, you know, triggers some sort of shock in people. They're so weary, so vigilant, very much still, a city that is very tense and very weary and emotions are very raw, Pamela.

BROWN: Still reeling from what happened here last week. Thank you so much, Isa Soares, we appreciate it.

And we're going to keep monitoring the situation right now in Paris and across Europe. But I want to bring in Christi and Victor back in Atlanta. Back to you guys.

PAUL: All righty, thank you so much Pamela. We appreciate it. You know, President Obama is -- he's standing united with British Prime Minister David Cameron

BLACKWELL: Yeah.

PAUL: But it was -- there are some points that they don't particularly agree on...

BLACKWELL: There are...

PAUL: And it was evident, wasn't it?

BLACKWELL: Yes. There are some disagreement and especially how they go after this. We'll talk about the commitment but also the ways in which they communicate. Also inside the secretive world of intelligence sharing, we'll show you how American intel lead to a dramatic raid on a terror cell in Belgium.

PAUL: Plus, what exactly should the world call the terrorist who attack Paris? I mean and who are planning a massacre in Belgium, are they extremists, are they Islamists. An expert weighs in on this one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: All righty. We have got so much to talk about regarding the terrorist threat in Europe.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Security beefed up. Sources telling CNN, as many as 20 of these sleeper cells maybe ready to hit targets in France, Germany, Belgium, also the Netherlands.

PAUL: Of course a lot of people are talking about this including world leaders. President Obama being one of them, standing along side his British counterpart. pledging a united front against this growing terror threat that we're seeing.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Erin McPike is at the White House for us this morning, following this angle. Erin, what are the two leaders pledging to do?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good moving Victor and Christie. They are pledging to information share, they have also agreed to set up cyber cells so that they identify real vulnerabilities in all of their networks that hackers could exploit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And in the wake of the vicious attacks in Paris, as well as the news surfacing out of Belgium, today we continue to stand unequivocally, not only with our French friends and allies, but with also all of our partners who are dealing with this scourge.

MCPIKE: President Obama and British Prime Minister David Cameron vowing to do more to disrupt terrorist communication.

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We should try to avoid havens that would otherwise be created for terrorists to talk each other. There is a very real connection between that and the capabilities that our intelligence services, within the law, used to defend our people.

MCPIKE: One of the major priorities for the U.S. and its allies is to identify the more than 19,000 foreign fighters who have traveled to Syria who maybe planning attacks in their home countries.

OBAMA: Social media and the internet is the primary way in which these terrorist organizations are communicating. Now that's no different that anybody else but they're good at it and when we have the ability to track that, in a way that is legal, conforms with due process, rule of law and presents oversight, then that's a capability that we have to preserve.

MCPIKE: The British Prime Minister has pushed for changes to how some internet companies are encrypting their communication, something Mr. Obama said he's also worried about.

OBAMA: If we find evidence of a terrorist plot somewhere in the Middle East that traces directly back to London or New York, and we are confident that this individual or this network is about to activate a plot, and despite having a phone number or despite have a social media address, we can't penetrate that. That's a problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: But of the big challenges that President Obama mentioned yesterday in his news conference are privacy concerns especially given all of the concerns raised by Edward Snowden in 2013, Christi and Victor.

PAUL: All righty. Erin McPike, we appreciate it as always. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right, Mitt Romney, if possible, he has still hope of winning the White House, running for a third time. He's hinting at a possible run.

PAUL: Yes. But the question is, you know, what the Republicans think about that idea? We're talking about it in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: New video this morning out of Brussels, Belgium.

PAUL: More security on the streets with this growing threat of terror across Europe. We got sleeper cell warnings, arrests that have been made. We're monitoring these situation on all angles. We have a live report coming up to you at the bottom of the hour as well.

BLACKWELL: Let's enter politics up for just a moment. Mitt Romney still has his eyes on the White House. He is considering another run. He told members of the Republican National Committee that he is thinking of running for president again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now there's some speculation about whether I'm about to embark on a political endeavor in which I've been previously unsuccessful. Let me state unequivocally that I have no intention of running for U.S. Senate of Massachusetts. That's - seriously, for our party and for the nation, 2016 is not going to be about the Obama years. It's going to about the post-Obama era.

And in the post-Obama era, conservative principles are needed as, perhaps, never before during our lifetime...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: So let's bring in CNN's politics executive Editor, Mark Preston. Mark, so good to see you. Now, here is the thing you went to the Republican winner meeting. What are they saying about Romney's plan?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, you know, Christi, I think everybody was caught by surprise, not only our viewers but also these Republican activist and republican leaders that were meeting here in San Diego this past week. Mitt Romney's decision to all of a sudden perhaps get in to the fray of field that is growing, it seems by the day, there are more than a dozen republicans. And someone say a dozen legitimate Republicans who were thinking about running for president.

So now, Mitt Romney might want to come back in the fray and I will have to tell you just, you know, about 12 hours ago, right behind me, on the USS Midway, he made the declaration. And in fact he is thinking of coming back. You know, I got to tell you, for these Republican leaders and activist, and I also just think for Republican voters across the country, there is a little bit of hesitation. They want to kick the tires on some new candidates, and there is talk about bringing a fresh face into the Republican party.

Having said that, Mitt Romney does have good will among many people and most importantly he knows how to raise money, Christi.

BLACKWELL: He's got the infrastructure, he has a donor base, as we say, that ain't nothing.

Mark, let me ask you this, more than a few opinion writers over the past week have written about some -- what some people would call the low lives, the 47 percent, the binders full of women, and the comment to the 2012 campaign. What will be different about the message this time?

PRESTON: You know, it's interesting you asked that because when he was talking last night, he told his fellow Republicans that they need to have a newer message, a fresher message. And in fact, he talked about one of the pillars in one of the main talking points, Republicans need to emphasize heading into 2016, is bringing people out of poverty.

Now as you said, Victor, when you go back to 2011 to 2012, Mitt Romney was criticized for being out of touch, I mean he is extremely wealthy. But he wasn't able to connect with voters, certainly with blue collar voters. So he, himself, seem to acknowledge that Republicans need to do a better job of trying to reach out to blue collar voters all across the country.

PAUL: You know, debates can make or break it for some candidates, certainly. What do you know about the debates we plan (ph) about here on CNN?

PRESTON: Well, you know, a major announcement was made just a few days ago here at the Republican national meeting. What they've decided to do is they decided to pair (ph) the debates down to roughly 12. We expect about a dozen debates, primary debates, Republican presidential primary debates to happen. Three of those are going to appear on CNN. And the first one is going to take place in September at the Reagan Library out in California. As our viewers might recall, CNN held the last Republican presidential debate of 2008 out at the Reagan Library, and look, Republicans look at Ronald Reagan as really the father of the modern Republican party, so in many ways it's a fitting venue for them to talk about policy issues and try to differentiate themselves.

And then we head out to Las Vegas in December, which has a booming population and a growing Hispanic population out there as well. And then in March of 2016, when there's just a few candidates, we'll see them on our stage and hashing it all out.

BLACKWELL: Very exciting time and of course a lot happening over the next couple of months as the candidates jump into the primaries. Mark Preston, thank you so much.

PAUL: Thank you Mark.

So could terror suspects -- here's the question a lot of people are wondering, can they slip across Syria's borders back into Europe, and then even back into the U.S.? How safe are we in the wake of these deadly attacks in France. And now the sweeping terror (inaudible), we're looking into that straight ahead.

BLACKWELL: Plus American intelligence lead to a dramatic and deadly raid on a Belgium terror cell. We'll take you to the Pentagon to find out how this whole went down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Hello. I'm Pamela Brown reporting live from Paris. Great to have you along with us on this Saturday. Just days after officials spoiled a major terrorist plot in Belgium, law enforcement official say there could be more suspects on the run. A Belgium source says authorities have called on the CIA to help track down a suspect they believe was the mastermind of the plan.

Meanwhile official say there could be up to 20 sleeper cells plotting attacks in places like France, Germany and the Netherlands. So far, more than two dozen people have been arrested in France and Belgium and officials say some of those individuals had direct links to ISIS.

We're also learning some new information about Said Kouachi, one of the two brothers behind the Charlie Hebdo massacre. According to his lawyer who spoke to CNN affiliate BFM, Kouachi was buried overnight in an unmarked grave northeast of Paris. There was no imam present, according to his attorney.

And we're also learning some new details about the deadly raid on a Belgian terrorist cell and the role that American intelligence played and the timing of it. Our Barbara Starr joins us from the Pentagon with more on this. Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, all of these are very rare look into the very secret world of intelligence cooperation between the U.S. and European intelligence services.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: The U.S. intelligence community had been aware of the terrorist plot in Belgium for weeks and was sharing critical information with Belgian authorities.

The plot was disrupted in a spectacular fashion with shootout and the arrest of 17 people across Western Europe.

ERIC VAN DER SYPT, BELGIAN FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: This operation was meant to dismantle a terrorist cell, not only the terrorist cell but also the logistic network behind it.

STARR: A U.S. official tells CNN the entire developing plot was being monitored and watched, part of an ongoing relationship between the U.S. and European intelligence services.

JEFF RATHKE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We've got active and ongoing law enforcement and information sharing arrangements with our allies in Europe and naturally those contacts continue.

STARR: U.S. officials will not say precisely what they knew, how much they knew and when they knew it. There is concern those details could signal other militants planning attacks.

But one official says "We were aware. We were tracking this." Adding, "There is a high probability other attacks were being planned."

A European security source tells CNN that when Belgian authorities arrested two men returning from Syria over the weekend, they squeezed them for information and then decided to act quickly.

The U.S. was also aware of the timing of the moves by Belgian law enforcement, U.S. officials say.

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Many of these individuals that they are targeting now are on U.S. watchlist. Of course, the concern is once these guys go fight -- go back to Europe, they're able to fly to the United States without visas and it's just five or six-hour plane ride.

STARR: The U.S. intelligence community estimates more than 19,000 foreign fighters have traveled to Syria. Hundreds of them, maybe with ISIS which has vowed to send loyalist to the west to attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: As you know, the NATO military alliance is headquartered in Belgium and they, too, are looking at stepping up their security measures. Pamela.

BROWN: Barbara Starr, thank you very much for that.

Well, one of the most wanted women in the world right now is believed to be hiding out in ISIS-controlled territory in Syria. That's Hayat Boumeddiene. She is a wanted terrorist suspect in connection with the recent wave of attacks in Paris and she apparently slips from Turkey into Syria and no one has seen her since.

So how can western nations and the U.S. track terrorists and would-be jihadist when they're crisscrossing borders? That is a big question. Let's bring in CNN military analyst, retired lieutenant general Mark Hertling. Thanks for coming back on to join us.

One of the big challenges officials are grappling with are all these thousands of people from Europe, from the U.S. going over to fight with Syria and then will need to return back to their homeland? How do governments -- or what kind of tools do governments have at their disposal to track these terrorist suspects?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it's primarily the sharing of intelligence at different locations plus the insertion of intelligence, counterintelligence, and analysts. Throughout Europe, the United States has not only embassies with the country teams all of which have intelligence capabilities.

But as you just mentioned, Pamela, the NATO headquarters is there. They have a significant intelligence role connecting the dots between countries. Fifty countries in Europe, each one has a country chain (ph). There are several United States intelligence centers, if you will, throughout the nation that is individuals moving in and out of Syria, in and out of Iraq, they can track those through the border entry and exit points.

Some of those borders are more secure than others, but truthfully you can pick up someone and just track them back. And that's what you're seeing in the Belgian operation. Those individuals were probably picked up coming out of Syria into Turkey going through either the caucuses, Hungary, Bulgaria, into France and then into Belgium.

So you can continually track and share information. And I think the United States provides, as well as the E.U. and NATO provides the great synapses between where the intelligence is first connected and then watching the individual as they move.

But certainly in the last couple of years as the -- as ISIS has expanded significantly, it's not like watching small KATO cells anymore. This is a much larger problem, Pamela.

BROWN: It is. Clear information sharing is key here. I want to toss to a sound bite from Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. She touches on this issue. Listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TULSI GABBARD, HAWAII: I am concerned in particular between, again, these E.U. member countries that this terror watchlists are not where they need to be. Again, that these individuals are not being tracked as closely as they need to be, if at all.

And unless and until that happens, you can talk about intelligence sharing and other things that need to occur. But if the value and the quality of that intelligence is not accurate or not complete, then that just shows we've got some huge gaping holes within our national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: She says that in light of course what happened here in Paris. So what do you think? Is she right? Are European nations not adequately tracking terrorist suspects? What are your thoughts on that?

HERTLING: Pamela, I heard Congresswoman Gabbard's interview yesterday and I don't agree with all the things she said. And the reason I don't agree is because I've been there and I've seen it. But, you know, I commanded U.S. army forces in Europe for two years and then spend seven of my last 12 years there and then three additional years in Iraq and Afghanistan watching the intelligence sharing.

The various governmental agencies in Europe do actively share this intelligence. They have synapses between them, between the NATO, between E.U. organizations and the countries know that it is in their best interest to share this information.

The attack in Verviers the other night, that's about 40 kilometers from the German border and those cells got into Belgium coming through all of Europe. We actively track movement throughout Europe. But I think the real issue is we have just seen an uptick in the numbers and this we saw in the Paris attack where some people will come on to the watchlist and then because nothing happens they fall off.

I think because of the potential for sleeper cells we'll watch more closely the individuals, but truthfully we said over the last few weeks, you just can't watch everybody in there. Iintelligence isn't 100 percent effective.

So, I think I'd tamp down a little bit what Congresswoman Gabbard said because she hasn't seen it. I'd invite her to perhaps take a look at the wall spotter (ph) program and some of the things that NATO has in place before making some of those statements.

BROWN: Well, let's just touch on what you were just talking about the supply and demand issue because with the Kouachi brothers, I was told that, look, authorities reached the point that after a few years, they weren't doing anything that they had bigger fish to fry, others that they were more concern about and they simply don't have the manpower to watch people like the Kouachi brothers if they're dormant for a few years and don't do anything to stay on their radar.

So what do you do about that problem of people who may have returned who aren't doing anything for a few years and then might launch a terrorist attack? I mean, what's the solution there?

HERTLING: There is no solution. It's simply, you can't watch everyone. And unless someone says, "Hey, this individual has some type of activity plan," you can't continue to watch him, you can't continue to provide resources.

And Pamela, this gets in to the very difficult debate between privacy and what is available on either taps to wire to phones or to other intelligence sources and leaving people alone. And in a western society, this is exactly what terrorist groups are using against us. We can't watch everybody who might have some small thing or just even a thing where they've traveled somewhere and have done something.

But the other thing that you could possibly do is the courts could be harder on somebody's activities. You know, we saw on both the Kouachi brothers and Coulibaly that they were in fact tried and then released. You know, you can't hold someone for a life prison term just like we're seeing in some other places that have captured terrorists and must release them after a while. Its human rights, human dignity. BROWN: Yeah. And there are legal parameters as well to consider.

HERTLING: Exactly.

BROWN: Yeah. And there are legal parameters as well to consider.

HERTLING: Exactly.

BROWN: General Mark Hertling, thank you very much. And we're going to keep monitoring the situation right now in Paris and across New York, but I want it to send it back to Christi and Victor in Atlanta.

PAUL: All right. Pamela, thank you so very much. And, you know, when we talked about the terror, a lot of people are wondering what does it mean for us here in the U.S.? Well, this we know, the FAA is now ramping up security at airports. We're going to talk about how that could impact you.

BLACKWELL: Plus, were the terror attacks in France carried out by Islamists, extremists? What's the appropriate term?

Our next guest explains the difference.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Our coverage continues on the recent terror alert and how it's impacting the U.S. CNN has learned that the FAA is putting some new rules in place.

CNN's Aviation and Government Regulation Correspondent Rene Marsh has details for us this morning. Good morning Rene.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christi and Victor, the headline from my conversation with Secretary Johnson is another round of ramped up measures at our nation's airports is on the way. It's unclear if these will be seen or unseen changes but Johnson says, it's in response to threat streams they're seeing now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We've evolved to a new phase in the global terrorist threat.

MARSH: The Head of Homeland Security revealing even more airport security measures are on the way.

JOHNSON: We're looking at doing more in the short term in reaction to some of the threat streams that we're seeing now.

MARSH: This after DHS announced earlier this week ramped up searches that U.S. airports over fears terrorists are creating non-metallic explosives capable of passing through some airport scanners undetected.

MARSH: So when you talk about more measures, as far as aviation goes, what would that look like? What's the timeline for that and what is this new intelligence...

JOHNSON: We're looking at it right now and I told my folks that I wanted an assessment in a very short term. And so I expect to get that in the next couple days.

MARSH: So it's unclear what those extra measures would be?

JOHNSON: We're looking at it right now.

MARSH: Additional random passenger and luggage checks are now happening at the gate once travelers have cleared TSA checkpoints.

After Al-Qaeda and the Arabian Peninsula published the step by step guide to building hard to detect bomb. Following September 11th, transportation systems continue to be a target for terrorists.

In 2005, four suicide bombs detonated within seconds of each other on a bus in three different trains traveling through London underground stations.

In 2010, Najibullah Zazi pleaded guilty for plotting to blow up New York subways.

JOHNSON: We need to focus more on homeland-based threats.

MARSH: Just this week, an electrical malfunction cause smoke to fill a D.C. metro station killing one and injuring dozens more.

Passengers were left waiting for more than 40 minutes before emergency responders helped them evacuate raising serious questions about how prepared the U.S. is to respond to emergencies of the nation's transportation system.

BLAIR RUBLE, VICE PRESIDENT, PROGRAM WILSON CENTER: One does have to wonder what would have happened had does fire have been set by terrorists. And clearly, the response was inadequate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: Well Johnson struck a reassuring tones saying that the department is assessing new intelligence and threats everyday and every hour. Christi, Victor.

PAUL: All right. Rene, thank you. We appreciate it.

Now, Former TSA Deputy Administrator Tom Blank joining us via phone right now, Tom, good morning to you and thank you for being with us here.

Obviously, we're already on a heightened state of alert after the Paris terror attacks. What would these new rules mean for travelers specifically?

TOM BLANK, FORMER DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, TSA: Well, I think they'll mean primarily three things. First of all, many passengers that are not members of PreCheck or Global Entry, the expedited screening program are pulled out and randomly put into those lines and pass through very quickly.

I think that you'll very likely see less person that are not formally in those programs put into those lines which means the lines make it a little bit longer.

Secondly, I think you'll see increase usage at the checkpoint of the body imagers. That's how they would detect non-metallic threat items so I think you'll see increase usage of that. Again, that might make the lines get a little bit longer.

And then thirdly, as you mentioned in the reporting, you'll see random checks primarily at carry on bags inside the security or security area and down by the gangways where people are boarding the aircraft.

PAUL: So Tom, you just mentioned the reports of these non-metallic bombs that are being developed, how expensive is that development, I guess? And how immediate might the threat be from that specifically?

BLANK: It's a little hard to say specifically because what we know is that the bad guys are constantly working to evolve explosive materials into new kinds of compounds, they're constantly trying to find ways to detonate explosives and build bombs that are non-traditional.

And it appears from Secretary Johnson's comments that one of the concerns is that they may have some non-specific, non-definitive intelligence that says, some new configuration of explosive that doesn't use any metal in the power system or the detonation mechanism. It's something that they wanted to be on the lookout for in it has probably driven some of these heightened security procedure.

PAUL: All right. Well, Former TSA Deputy Administrator Tom Blank with us here, we appreciate it Tom. Thank you so much.

BLANK: Thank you. Have a nice day.

PAUL: You too.

So, what's in a name? Are the terrorists who killed innocent men and women in Paris extremists, are they Islamists? Why does it matter? Why does the moniker matter? We have answers just ahead.

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BLACKWELL: We'll have more on how this terror alert is impacting the U.S. in a moment.

PAUL: Yeah. But we want to get you back to Pamela Brown. She is leading a special coverage from our Paris bureau. Good morning to you, Pam.

BROWN: Well good morning to both of you, Victor and Christi. One of the questions we're grappling with, what should the world call these terrible terror attacks that we saw here at Paris? Was it carried out by extremists, Islamists?

To discuss this I want to bring in Dr. Qanta Ahmed, she is a Muslim and she's written a new article in London's Spectator magazine about the need to name terrorism.

If you would, Dr. Ahmed, explain what you mean by that, this need to name terrorism.

QANTA AHMED, AUTHOR, "IN THE LAND OF INVISIBLE WOMEN": I feel certainly here the discourse in the United States has been shying away from identifying the idealogy that's inspiring these acts in Paris. And that idealogy is known to political scientists, and I call it in my writing, Islamism.

Certainly Islamism has many manifestations and the ones that we're seeing in Paris are expressedly jihadist. One of the tenets of Islamism is the evolution of any teachings to do with jihad and the Quran into terrorist jihadism. That's a complex idea.

And another feature that you're seeing now in Paris that's imperiling certainly the French jury is the Islamist's central tenant on acting in a genocidal anti-semitism. These are not Islamic principles that lead our values of Islamism.

BROWN: So then in your view, what should these terrorists be called?

AHMED: These terrorists are Islamists. They are acting as Islamist ideologues. They're fulfilling one aspects of Islamism which is diabolical jihadism as they see it. As a Muslim, as an observing Muslim, I don't accept that their expression of this in the name of Islam is correct. It's absolutely false. But they are behaving and conducting their actions as jihadists. That's what we should call them.

And I see them as distinct from terrorism though there are many more eminent terrorist experts who can talk about this. When we think about terrorism, I'm from Britain, we might think about the IRA or we might think about ETA that is tied to certain political demands whether one thinks them legitimate or not.

The jihadist is acting as an Islamist is fulfilling nihilistic and totalitarian ambition which not really going to be appeased by any kind of dialogue or compromise from our standpoint as seculatoralistic (ph) Democrats.

BROWN: Let's talk about the idealogy that may be driving these terrorists because they do identify -- they say that they're Muslims but they follow Wahhabism. Tell us what the difference is between that consider the most extreme version of Islam versus what you as a Muslim practice in your faith.

AHMED: Well, I think that's a very complicated question. Wahhabism, which is the Western term came out of Britain in the Ottoman Era, is the name given to the very austere kind of Islam that's most embodied by Saudi Arabia that came out of the 17th century.

So, many individuals that we would describe as Wahhabi will not have these actions that we're seeing in Paris. The Parisian actors, or as I call them the Islamists, are seeking a totalitarian accomplishment to achieve their vision of a global caliphate. They're also wanting to wound us most profoundly in one of the world's most celebrated liberal democracy is France by attacking secular values. And that means pluralism, that means freedom of speech and expression.

So Wahhabism, I accept, is not a version of Islam I follow. But it's not completely accurate to say that those terrorists in Paris, the Islamists, are Wahhabi. I think that's too simplistic.

BROWN: OK, Dr. Qanta Ahmed, thank you so much for coming on sharing your perspective on this. Very interesting to talk with you and we're going to keep monitoring the situation right now in Paris and across Europe. Christi and Victor, back to you in Atlanta.

BLACKWELL: Hey Pamela, before you go I wondered if you could just give us a taste -- what it feels like there, what the mood is and what you've noticed is different this time around with your trip in Paris.

BROWN: Absolutely. So I arrived here to Paris 6 a.m. yesterday morning and immediately you get this sense that people are on edge. We are here right next to the Arc de Triomphe and my hotel is right next there and as soon as we walked in to the hotel, they did a security check. They checked our bags and everything and I was with my producer who was actually just here a few days before she flew back to the U.S. and then back to Paris. She said, "They didn't do that when I was here just a few days ago."

So you do get this sense that there is fear that people are on edge especially because we know that authorities are still investigating. Their concern is that others could be here in Paris just like the Kouachi brothers, just like Ahmedy Coulibaly who could be on the verge to act. Christi, Victor.

PAUL: Good point. All right. Hey Pamela, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

BROWN: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. We'll continue our coverage at the top of the hour. Stay with us.

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