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New Day Saturday

Source: Belgium Terror Cell Linked To ISIS; The Threat Of Homegrown Extremists; Europe Scrambles to Track Down Terrorists; FAA Beefs Up Airport Security; Salvaging Wreckage from AirAsia 8501

Aired January 17, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Europe is on edge this morning as police and security forces chase down leads and links to potential Jihadi terrorism.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: And in Belgium, new concerns that members of one of those terror cells are on the run and have possible links to ISIS.

BLACKWELL: And here at home, new details of another round of increased security at airports across the country.

PAUL: Despite all of that, we will wish you a good morning.

BLACKWELL: Yes. We're so glad to have you with us. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Pleasure as always. Let's get right to CNN's Pamela Brown live in Paris -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Victor and Christi, good morning to you. Right now countries across Europe are on high alert this morning for terror suspects who are on the run and Belgium wants the CIA's help we've learned.

Western intelligence source telling CNN as many as 20 sleeper cells with up to 180 terrorists may be poised to strike here in France and Germany and Belgium. Belgian troops are out in force today guarding potential targets, and 13 suspected militants were detailed in Belgium, sweeping anti-terror raids there.

Police shot dead two suspects and about a dozen people were also arrested in France and three in Germany. According to investigators those arrested in Belgium were a part of a plot to assassinate police in the streets.

And we're learning of a possible ISIS connection to that plot. That's a counter terrorism official said they ordered recruits to return to Europe from Syria's battlegrounds to launch attacks. That is the big concern.

So let's dig in a little bit deeper here at the latest anti-terrorism operations with CNN's Isa Soares. Here in Paris, separate from the Belgium raids. We learned a dozen people were arrested in connection to one of the suspects. What do we know about them?

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is in connection to Coulibaly. He is the man that was killed on Friday in the kosher store. He's the partner of the woman in Syria. She's on the run. So police are saying 12 people have been arrested, eight men, four women arrested.

All suspected of having some sort of logistical support to Coulibaly. We don't know if it's driving him to the kosher store or providing weapons or even renting the second apartment that we know he had. We do not know what kind of support they've had

But what we have learned, sources telling a French newspaper that they found DNA evidence linking these people with indeed Coulibaly. They found DNA that linked them on the weapons, belonging to Coulibaly, that links them together.

Also the car that he drove or he drove to the kosher supermarket, DNA evidence there that links them, or one of these suspects to them. And the stash of weapons, if you remember, Pam, police found in the second apartment, there was lot of weapons there almost like for a war environment rather than that you see in the streets of Paris so DNA evidence linking the suspects to Coulibaly.

So you start to get a sense of the network behind some of these individuals. In the early days, they were saying lone wolf attack. He always pledged allegiance to AQAP, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. But he clearly has, from what we're hearing, some supportive network, logistical.

Whether it's financial, we do not know, but we do know that he took out $7,000 or so in the north of France, and the idea of people connecting the dots is that he took the money out and then drove across the border and exchanged one of the cars for a weapon.

BROWN: Yes, and as we speak, still under investigation, a lot of questions. Authorities are still trying to nail down the answers to. Thank you so much, Isa Soares. We appreciate it.

And now we want to cease on a rare opportunity. Right now, CNN crews are in Yemen chasing down leads in the wake of the terror threats on Europe. The struggling state is just south of Saudi Arabia and is a breeding ground for terrorists, including al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

Yemen is where the two Kouachi brothers in last week's Paris attack are believed to have received orders to launch their deadly rampage on the offices of "Charlie Hebdo." CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more from the terrorist op-ed.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, Yemen so key to the investigation into what al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula are based in this failing state behind me. It's an economy on the edge of collapse, its institution always struggling to hold on amid the conflict whirling around them. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula based here calling that violence in Paris in their twisted terminology the blessed battle of Paris. The question is, though, we know from one Interior Ministry official that Said Kouachi first came here according to their databases in August of 2009.

He made a number of trips in and out until potentially 2011, even 2012. The question is, did his brother also come here, perhaps using his older brother's passport? That would be Cherif traveling under the assumed identity of his brother.

And most importantly, al Qaeda here claimed that Anwar Al Awlaki, an American citizen killed in 2011 by U.S. drone strike was the organizer behind the attacks. Did the relationship between those two Kouachi brothers and al Qaeda here in Yemen end in 2011?

Did they have the resources to make those attacks against "Charlie Hebdo" then or was there a continuing network of communications and resources logistics that continued up until the start of those attacks in Paris just over a week ago now?

Vital things investigators need to establish because if there is a continued relationship, they'll want to try circumvent and stop that as quickly as possible -- Pamela.

BROWN: Nick Paton Walsh for us in Yemen. Thank you very much.

And in Belgium, we are developing something right now. The Belgian security defense minister is holding a live press conference at any minute now. We are monitoring it, of course, and we'll bring you any developments that may come from that that he may discuss.

There are still a lot we want to learn there at Belgium and police we know are ramping up security after foiling that major terror plot there this week. Officials say the suspects planned to assassinate police.

And a Belgian counterterrorism source says at least two of the individuals had direct ties to ISIS. Let's go straight to CNN's Ivan Watson in Brussels, Belgium. Ivan, you've been following the story for us. Tell us where are the troops in Belgium being deployed?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've seen them deploying here in Brussels outside the great synagogue of Europe, as it's known here, which went ahead with normal Saturday Jewish services.

Also outside the Jewish museum, just a few blocks from where I'm standing right now, which was the target of the deadly attack last May that resulted in the deaths of four people, the man who was charged with that attack, a French citizen being charged with murder, who is believed to have traveled previously to Syria.

Now this is a very unusual scene. The armed forces deploying in the streets, not only of Brussels, but also to protect the Jewish neighborhood in that city and it just goes to show how seriously the authorities are taking this threat after Belgian police carried out this raid Thursday night.

It resulted in the deaths of two suspects. A third was captured. Take a listen to what the federal prosecutor here has to say about this alleged foiled plot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC VAN DER SYPT, BELGIUM FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: We cannot say that any U.S. interests were involved or targeted by the group. This group for we know now was especially targeting Belgian police and planned to kill Belgian policemen in the streets or throughout buildings.

They especially were planning to assassinate policemen. I know in that press there has been rumors of kidnapping people and beheading people, but at this stage of the investigation, we cannot confirm that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: Now, Pamela, the police say that they seized not only assault rifles and explosives, but also police uniforms in that raid, which backs up their claim that they think the targets would have been police. The Belgian authorities are so far withholding the names of the suspects, they say, to protect the investigation.

All that we know really are two killed suspects were Belgian citizens and they are believed to have traveled previously to Syria and they are also believed to have had ISIS links.

They are not believed at this stage to have any ties whatsoever to the deadly attack on the offices of the magazine "Charlie Hebdo" in Paris where you are -- Pamela.

BROWN: And you just mentioned something, Ivan, that authorities are very concerned about in addition to everything else is that the fact that some of these suspects apparently had tied to ISIS. Can you tell us more about that and how authorities are looking into that and what led them to believe that they are connected to ISIS?

WATSON: You know, this is another area where the authorities are not revealing a lot of information. So we're just going to wait, perhaps some out of the Belgian Defense Ministry briefing that's supposed to be starting any minute right now.

But they are really keeping their cards very close to their chest on this. With the full awareness that Europe has had hundreds, if not thousands of citizens, that have traveled to Syria to join in the ranks of ISIS as that militant group has emerged to such a potent force in Iraq and Syria over the last several years.

But yes, if there is one thread that seems to connect the raids that have taken place in France, Belgium, and also the arrests of at least two people reported in Germany, is that all of these suspects are believed to have had ties to ISIS.

And that it appeared to have returned home to Europe after spending time in Syria in the Middle East with that militant organization -- Pamela.

BROWN: And that is so concerning because we're learning from officials that ISIS directing these foreign fighters to go back to their homelands to launch attacks. We're monitoring that press conference in Belgium and we'll bring the latest. Ivan Watson, thank you very much.

And now I'm going to turn it back over to Christi and Victor in Atlanta as we continue to monitor the situation in Paris and across Europe. Back to you.

BLACKWELL: Absolutely. Pamela, thank you. We're going to talk more about the terror concerns here in the U.S. There have been so many changes over the last decade or more since 9/11. What more can U.S. officials do to keep Americans save in the wake of the terror threats in Europe.

PAUL: Plus, Indonesian search crews may have found parts of the wreckage from Airasia Flight 8501, the hardest part, though. That's still live ahead. Rebuilding the airplanes to find out what happened and recovering those bodies. We're talking to someone who knows how to do all of this. Stay close.

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PAUL: All right, we want to take you live to Belgium right now as we're listening to security officials address the public about what stances they're taking, what work they're doing to try to thwart the terror attacks that we've been seeing. Let's listen in here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): -- increase that is one call -- but that will evolve throughout the week and we could have two twice, 150. Now I would like to give it to my colleague.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Just a few saying the technical aspects, the general details first of all. We have to react very quickly. Secondly, this is an unusual environment we have to be able to work in.

And thirdly, the operations are taking place under the command of the police, the controls of the police and the responsibility of the military. Those are big differences concerning other military aspects.

So the preparation starts on the 16th of January. That was yesterday. It's the time we started discussions on the practical arrangements, the operational arrangements for this deployment and who was in charge.

How would we make sure that people are explained, how this will work in practice, and also what the rules of engagement area? So those rules of engagement had to be discussed. We had the specialist of defense to gather the legal experts to try to sketch a framework that would allow us to stay within the legal framework.

Because of course we have to consider these are unusual circumstances on Belgian territory. However, we have to make sure we guarantee the security of the stock and the safety of the stock and we were able to mobilize as we should.

BLACKWELL: All right, you've been listening to security officials in Belgium describe some of the major changes that are now in effect after those more than a dozen 20 raids across -- well, 17 raids in Europe. We're going to cover more of what's happening in Europe.

Our Pam Brown is in Paris. But I want to go now to CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem for the latest on the terror concerns here in the U.S.

PAUL: Juliette, good morning. Thank you for being with us. So what we're seeing play out, are you confident that the U.S. is doing enough to find and track potential terrorists.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, look, there's no perfect security in a country like hour ours, so we're never safe. We have levels of being safer. The way we think about it is a layer defense given the threats out there. There are a number of things going on.

From intelligence to supporting state and local law enforcement to more stringent TSA standards at the airport to also engaging the public so they know what's going on and they are aware of the threat that we have right now.

And it's different people that make us safer in a world too big, too vibrant. Too many people are traveling around to say, well, we're perfectly safe. That's the balance and the challenge that's going to confront this administration and the next one, given the threat we're facing now.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about the kinds of threat. And I want to get your thoughts on something that former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta told CNN's Fareed Zakaria. Let's listen. We'll talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON PANETTA, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: You have terrorists coming at us from a lot of different directions, from ISIS, from Boko Haram, from Al Shabaab, from AQAP, from other elements of al Qaeda. They are recruiting like crazy from these various wars in Syria and Iraq and Yemen, and they seem to be involved in more planning and more weapons in terms of the types of attacks that they're working on.

And so I think it's pretty clear from what we're seeing, that we are entering a more threatening and dangerous period in this war on terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So Juliette, do you believe that the American people should be concerned that we are indeed moving into a more dangerous period? KAYYEM: Yes, I think we are. I think something has changed this year in 2015. Where the -- there's a combination of both the sort of lone wolf, somewhat sociopathic terrorist that lives here and they watched social media and they think that they are bigger than they are and they do things that are very hard to detect.

The good news with them is they pose much less threat. Their violence tends to be not as bad as the other type that we're seeing formed in the west, which is the highly organized, highly successful coordinated terrorist attacks, that second group has obviously shown itself in Western Europe.

Intelligence sharing is the best way to thwart or undermine their attacks. We saw that in Belgium an attack was thwarted, but in France we did not, right, I mean, in the sense that the intelligence was not fast enough and not coordinated enough for the French and the international community to stop that attack.

And unfortunately, you know, they have to only win once, right or only be successful once. We have to be successful every single time and that's going to be kind of world we live in and brace for in the years to come.

PAUL: That's really a good point. Juliette Kayyem, stay with us. We appreciate it so much. We're checking back in with her in a couple of minutes. But that Leon Panetta interview, you're going to see a lot more of that tomorrow with Fareed Zakaria. I just wanted to let you know he'd be here tomorrow on CNN for more of that.

BLACKWELL: And there have been some developments. Let's go to the Java Sea now where the search and recovery now of the pieces and the victims of the Flight 8501 crash, there have been big developments there. But bringing it to the surface, finding the victims and bringing the pieces up, that's going to be pretty difficult.

PAUL: We're going to talk to an expert about what it would take to rebuild that plane. Find out what happens to the ill-fated flight and what about for these families? The bodies that this is their resting place right now, when can those be returned to the families? Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: It's 25 minutes past the hour right now. We'll take a look at your top stories this morning. The Supreme Court is going to weigh in on the gay marriage debate. The high court will decide if same-sex couples have the constitutional right to marry or if the issue should be left up to the fate.

BLACKWELL: Right now, 36 states and the District of Columbia allows same-sex marriage. The justices will hear arguments in April and issue a ruling by June.

PAUL: Listen to this, police say two Kentucky teens are increasingly brazen, they are dangerous and on the run this morning. Police are frantically searching for 18-year-old Dalton Hayes and his 13-year-old girlfriend, Cheyenne Phillips.

Authorities say the couple stole three cars. Two guns were inside. The teens were spotted in South Carolina. They're believed to be heading to Florida. This all came to light when the 13-year-old's father reported her missing.

BLACKWELL: Take a look at this screen. See these mug shots? They're causing outrage in North Miami Beach Florida because police sniper used them for target practice. A local woman noticed one of photos was of her brother and several other African-American men and filed a complaint.

But police say it's not a case of racism because they also use photos of other races and Osama Bin Laden. Most of the mug shots are people arrested 10, maybe 15 years ago. And the police chief said officers did nothing wrong, but because of the current climate, the practice will stop.

PAUL: As you know, American and European officials are scrambling to shut down threats from terror sleeper cells. We're giving you an inside look at how they work and what's being done at this hour to stop them.

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BROWN: Hello. I'm Pamela Brown reporting live from Paris following a lot of developments on this Saturday.

Just days after officials foiled a major terrorist plot in Belgium law enforcement officials say there could be more suspects on the run as we speak. A Belgian source says authorities have called on the CIA to help track them down as a suspect they believe was a mastermind of the plan.

Meanwhile, officials say there could be up to 20 sleeper cells plotting attacks in places like France, Germany and the Netherlands. So far more than two dozen people have been arrested in France and Belgium, and officials say some of those individuals have direct links to ISIS.

We're also learning some new information about Said Kouachi, one of the two brothers behind the "Charlie Hebdo" massacre. According to his lawyer who spoke to CNN affiliate BSM (ph), Kouachi was buried overnight in an unmarked grave northeast of Paris and there was no imam present.

As dozens are arrested in raids across Europe, counterterrorism officials are planning how wide the sleeper cell threat may be. But how does a sleeper cell work? Brian Todd takes a closer look.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A western official with knowledge of the Paris investigation tells CNN says there is huge concern over the danger from sleeper cells in Europe and elsewhere. The worry is over the unknown -- when, where and how they'll strike.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TODD: A terror cell disrupted. But Europe is still bracing for more attacks. A Western intelligence source tells CNN there could be several sleeper cells ready to strike in France, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands. Now new concerns about their planning and timing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And worry is are how and when will they be activated.

TODD: Former jihadists and intelligence officers tell CNN a sleeper cell is usually made up of a few operatives. They're either acting on behalf of a foreign country or a terror group taking instructions from it, or are simply inspired by a group and acting on their own. As Paris gunman Amedy Coulibaly appeared to do. They're living in the city where they want to strike, selecting targets.

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OPERATIONS OFFICERS: They already are there. And they have that ability to cross borders. They have that ability to live without being on the radar screen.

TODD: They're highly skilled at blending in appearing like the guy next door.

MUBIN SHEIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: They'll have regular jobs. You might see them at the strip joint drinking alcohol -- anything to take off the claim or suspicion that they might be extremist Muslim terrorists.

TODD: The 9/11 hijackers did that -- reportedly drinking heavily in bars, some even going to strip clubs.

Mubin Sheikh is a former jihadist who almost went to Iraq to fight. He broke away, went undercover for Canadian intelligence and helped bust a terror cell in Toronto. He says many sleeper operatives don't communicate with their handlers by phone or over the Internet. Some are told don't go to mosques. Don't give a hint of your religion.

SHEIKH: Could be shave your beard, remove your religious garb -- anything to blend in. That will be determined by the handler or sometimes even the operatives in the cell itself.

TODD: Sleeper operatives stay isolated experts say -- sometimes lie dormant for years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They wait for an opportune moment when the world attention is turned away, when their planning phase is over to strike.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: And the sleeper cell dynamic is always changing. A U.S. counterterrorism official told me these days terror cells do a lot less sleeping. They actively plot, hope to avoid suspicion, and they very often direct the terror strike themselves, rather than wait for a signal.

BROWN: Brian Todd, thank you for that reporting.

Let's bring in CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem for more on this issue. Let's talk about the so-called sleeper cells. We know the Kouachi brothers, for one example -- Juliette. One of them at least we know of trained in Yemen in 2011 then a few years later, launches this terror attack.

So what do authorities do about that? What is the solution there? Because I was thinking the one authority here on the ground in Paris last night he said, "Look, they didn't do anything. We had bigger fish to fry, so we moved on." What's the solution?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Right. That's exactly right. And I want to pick up on that last point Brian just made because I think that's the most important aspect of the challenge that counterterrorism officials have now is that this notion of a sleeper cell really should be put to rest in some regards.

A sleeper cell is a group of people that want to attack and are sort of directed by a senior leader. So think of al Qaeda in 2000 or 2001 where bin Laden is essentially saying go, don't go, depending on what he wanted to do. That idea of this sort of hierarchy of a terrorist organization is long gone. Part of it is a result of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Now we just have people that are being trained -- getting money, ammunition and guns. But that are deciding their own timing on their own. So they're never really asleep. They're never really waiting for anyone. They're deciding on their own.

This is clearly what we saw in France where the training and the discussion happened three years ago but the brothers are sort of left on their own. So the only way -- or not the only but one way to deal with this new phenomenon is to sort of target the people that may have the means to do an attack or those who have gone abroad and continue the surveillance. But this idea that there's going to be a triggering, sort of go ahead and do it is just not going to happen anymore because the leadership is so flat lined.

BROWN: Right. I was talking to this official last night. He called this highly franchised terrorism where they're just given general instructions, sent on their way, and then they decide the time and the place, which makes it even more challenging. So in light of that, do you think it's impossible to track every terror threat we're facing here in Europe and in the U.S.?

KAYYEM: Yes, I do. I mean I just think that the nature of the threat, that idea of a franchise is actually a great way to put it. It's so -- sort of all over the place, and therefore no place that we have to risk that there are going to be vulnerabilities just given -- not because we're not being safe enough, but simply given the nature of the world now with borders and transportation and rail lines. And people are just moving too much.

So the way to combat it is not to throw up our hands but to try to target our intelligence and resources on the highest threat. So if you look at what happens in France, it's clear that the French intelligence agencies were not communicating with each other so that the brothers were on a higher list or were more surveyed. And that is something that the French are going to have to learn. Why was there this gap between what we knew that they did abroad and what should be happening in France domestically. And that's unfortunately we have to learn as we go along to fix those errors.

BROWN: Their case does highlight this issue of people going overseas whether it's in Yemen, whether it's in Syria to fight with ISIS coming back to their homelands and launching attacks -- an official calling it a slow motion car accident happening right before our eyes. It's a huge issue.

Juliette Kayyem, thank you for coming on to talk about this.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

BROWN: And tributes continue for the 12 victims of the attack on French magazine "Charlie Hebdo". For ways that you can support and pay tribute, go to CNN.com/impact.

And of course, we'll keep monitoring the situation right now, right here in Paris and across Europe.

But for now I'm going to send it back to Christi and Victor in Atlanta. Back to you guys.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right, Pamela. Thank you so much. Coming up, another round of ramped up security measures at airports across the U.S.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN HOST: Yes. Officials are on high alert for terrorism and what it means for you the next time you travel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: 19 minutes until the top of the hour now.

The FAA is putting some new rules in place, including suspending a program that allows safety inspectors bypass the TSA screening check points.

PHILLIPS: It's a move coming, of course, after some security breaches involving firearms and the recent terror attacks. CNN aviation and government regulation correspondent Rene Marsh is breaking this down for us. Good morning, Rene.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Christi and Victor -- the headline from my conversation with Secretary Johnson is another round of ramped up measures at our nation's airports is on the way. It's unclear if these will be seen or unseen changes. But Johnson says it's in response to threat streams they're seeing now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEH JOHNSON, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We've evolved to a new phase in the global terrorist threat.

MARSH: The head of Homeland Security revealing even more airport security measures are on the way.

JOHNSON: We're looking at doing more in the short term in reaction to some of the threat streams that we're seeing now.

MARSH: This after DHS announced earlier this week ramped up searches at U.S. airports over fears terrorists are creating nonmetallic explosives, capable of passing through some airport scanners undetected.

When you talk about more measures as far as aviation goes, what would that look like? What is the timeline for that? What is this new intelligence?

JOHNSON: We're looking at it right now. And I told my folks that I wanted an assessment in the very short term. So I expect to get that in the next couple of days.

MARSH: So it's unclear what those extra measures will be.

JOHNSON: We're looking at it right now.

MARSH: Additional random passenger and luggage checks are now happening at the gate -- once travelers have cleared TSA checkpoints. After al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula published a step by step guide to building hard-to-detect bombs.

Following September 11th, transportation systems continue to be a target for terrorists. In 2005 four suicide bombs detonated within seconds of each other on a bus and three different trains traveling through London underground stations.

In 2010, Najibullah Zazi pleaded guilty for plotting to blow up New York subways.

JOHNSON: We need to focus more on homeland based threats.

MARSH: Just this week an electrical malfunction caused smoke to fill a D.C. Metro station, killing one and injuring dozens more. Passengers were left waiting for more than 40 minutes before emergency responders helped them evacuate, raising serious questions about how prepared the U.S. is to respond to emergencies on the nation's transportation system.

BLAIR RUBLE, PROGRAMS WILSON CENTER: One does have to wonder what would have happened had that fire been sent by terrorists. And clearly the response was inadequate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: Well, Johnson struck a reassuring tone saying that the department is assessing new intelligence and threats every day and every hour -- Christi, Victor?

BLACKWELL: All right. Rene Marsh -- thank you.

PAUL: Suddenly a lot of people are on edge as we hear about these terror threats. A man was plotting to attack the U.S. Capitol. He's in jail now from Ohio. But what can be legally done to prevent potential attacks?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: As France and Belgium arrest people possibly connected to potential terror attacks the U.S. is also dealing with its own homegrown jihadists.

PAUL: Yes, this week in Ohio, a man has been charged with planning a bomb and shoot attack on the U.S. Capitol. He's being held without bond.

BLACKWELL: And jury selection is on for the Boston Marathon bombing trial.

Let's bring in CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson.

PAUL: Joey, want to start with you here. Wondering in the Ohio case, what kind of legal action can be taken against people who are caught planning terror attacks but haven't actually taken official action, let's say.

JOEH JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure. Christi -- good morning to you. Good morning, Victor. Good morning, Mel.

I think there's three parts to the question. The first part is vigilant law enforcement action and I think we saw that in Ohio. And what does that mean? It means law enforcement who was monitoring social media, who is very adept at, you know, working with other agencies to ensure the terror attacks don't occur.

Then when you get from the vigilant law enforcement, you go to the arrest, and then after the arrest you go to the prosecution. And I think what you look to in terms of the law is whether you can successfully prosecute it. Keep in mind Christi that you need not have an actual attack in order to be prosecuted. An attempt is enough. So what is an attempt? An attempt is a substantial in furthering of that criminal act. And we saw it in Ohio by virtue of the plotting, the planning, the meeting with an informant to otherwise attempt carry out, the researching of bombs and purchasing of weapons and ammunition.

And so I think if law enforcement is vigilant, if they work with the prosecution and they ultimately bring people to justice, you can thwart these attacks and thank goodness in Ohio that looks like it was done.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about not just the planning, but the execution. We know that the Tamerlane brother -- Tamerlane Tsarnaev and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev -- the Tsarnaev brothers accused of the Boston bombing. Tamerlane obviously dead but Dzhokhar -- his trial is coming up.

Mel, why is it turning out to be so difficult to convene a jury? To choose a jury? MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it remains to be seen. It's an excellent question whether or not it's going to be difficult. They suspect it's going to take five or six weeks to find 18 jurors to impanel. And one of the things that's going to make the process slower is because of these attacks in Paris, because of the kind of media coverage that has been nonstop and because of the number of parallels that have been drawn between the Boston and terrorists attacks and the fact that two brothers were involved in both.

The defense has tried to delay the jury selection, saying that it's going to poison the jury pool. They want things to die down. The judge did deny that motion. But now you're going to see an intense amount of questioning by the defense about whether or not these Paris attacks are going to impact their ability to just listen to this case.

Also any death penalty case, you have to be able to find jurors that would be willing to impose the death penalty if there's a conviction, and if in the sentencing phase they put forth evidence that, you know, shows that he should be put to death for these crimes.

And in the state of Massachusetts in particular, the population is overwhelmingly against the death penalty. So those are two factors guys that could delay finding 18 impartial jurors. But I do think that there will be a panel impaneled here in Boston in a matter of just a few weeks -- Victor.

PAUL: All right. I wanted to ask you real quickly, Joey, I've heard experts say that accused terrorist Christopher Lee Cornell in Ohio was arrested in an unusual way. What do you think?

JACKSON: Sure. Well, you know, I think the police officers got it right in working with the prosecution. And I think that ultimately, it didn't really matter that he didn't make it to Washington, D.C. I think a lot of attention is focused on, well wait a second, you have him charged with attempting to kill government officials, but he didn't get near the capitol.

So the question then becomes, should we wait, Christi, for him to pose a real threat and endanger the people in Washington, D.C. before an arrest could be made. And I think the answer is no. I think the law answers that question. Did you take a substantial step in furtherance of your criminality? And when you're planning and plotting and purchasing weapons, the answer resoundingly is yes.

PAUL: Yes, all right. Joey Jackson and Mel Robbins, always appreciate you being here. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Thank you both.

JACKSON: Thank you, Christi.

ROBBINS: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: So just a few moments ago we brought you that news conference out of Belgium. The authorities there talking about how they're stepping up security across their country. And it's happening across much of Europe.

PAUL: Yes. Heavily armed troops are standing guard on the streets in Brussels. We know this morning a dragnet is widening for ISIS linked terror suspects who are on the run. We're covering this developing story from all angles at the top of the hour. Stay close.

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PAUL: I want to share some breaking news that we're getting into CNN just now. According to Yemeni security officials the chief of staff of the Yemeni president was kidnapped by gunmen in central Sana'a this morning. The abduction of Dr. Ahmed bin Mubarak (ph) was immediately condemned on Twitter by the U.K. ambassador to Yemen who called for his release.

We'll obviously keep up with this. Again, the chief of staff of Yemeni president was kidnapped by gunmen this morning.

BLACKWELL: We're following another developing story there in the Java Sea where high waves and strong currents have been preventing Indonesian navy divers from accessing the fuselage in what is believed to be the cockpit from the AirAsia plane that crashed a few weeks ago.

Searchers spotted the fuselage Wednesday along with what's believed to be the cockpit, as we said, and an engine. The conditions have not allowed divers to inspect the wreckage or lift it to the surface.

We have Bobbie Scholley (ph) with us -- Scholley, I'm sorry. She's a former U.S. Navy captain and diver. Bobbie, I want to know with your experience in the recovery of TWA Flight 800, what types of conditions are required to get these divers into the water there, and is it that likely we'll see those in the Java Sea any time soon?

BOBBIE SCHOLLEY, FORMER U.S. NAVY CAPTAIN AND DIVER: Good morning, Victor.

And thank you very much for asking about the divers because these navy divers like our navy divers are really heroic men and sometimes women. And they work under these tremendous -- tremendous conditions e almost every day. They've had a lot of trouble in the Java Sea, as we've seen over the last several weeks. But they've shown time and again that they continue to work to get the job done. And I think they're going to continue to do that in this case.

They're going to have to wait until the seas settle down again and to get back in and get safely out of their dive boats and get into the water. They're also going to have to wait until there's a window of opportunity where they can get down onto the fuselage which is the piece that we're most interested in now to see if they can continue to recover the rest of the passengers and crew that we hope are in that fuselage.

So that's what we need -- we need conditions on the bottom where the currents are less than the two to four knots that we keep finding down there. BLACKWELL: Bobbie, we've talked a lot about it, and we'll continue to

talk about the challenges ahead for the loved ones of those victims. But if you're a diver going in and you know that you're going to likely find a large number of people who died in a plane, maybe still strapped in those seat belts inside the fuselage, how does one even prepare psychologically for that?

SCHOLLEY: It's a tough job. You do have to prepare yourself mentally for that. These divers know what they're up against. Part of the training that they get, in most cases they're military divers. But some of them might be law enforcement or commercial divers. And part of their training deals with that.

But primarily they are focused on the mission and conducting the mission within the safety parameters that they're used to. This is a dangerous dive. It's deep water for them. And they need to focus on conducting the dive and the operation safely. And that's what they have to focus on to get it done completely.

And try to set aside the emotional aspects of the mission because they are really concerned with getting this mission done so that they can bring back these loved ones for the family members. And then they think about all the emotional parts of this mission after it is completed. And that's how you deal with that subject.

BLACKWELL: Quickly, Bobbie, what will their role be in bringing not just the victims up but the pieces of the plane?

SCHOLLEY: Well, of course, they have to work with the investigators to see what the priorities are. Right now we know the priorities are to bring back the victims first. But as the investigators look at what information they pull off the voice and data recorder, the investigators are going to prioritize what other parts and pieces of the aircraft they need to determine the cause of the crash. And they're going to work with the dive team to determine what parts of the aircraft are the highest priority.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

SCHOLLEY: When I worked TWA Flight 800 they slowly determined what areas of the aircraft they really needed to focus on. And those are what parts of the aircraft they needed to bring back. A lot of times they need the whole aircraft back. In this case, I'm sure their going to want to bring back that section of fuselage, which is a huge section. That's going to be a very complex salvage.

BLACKWELL: Yes. As you said, the victims the most important part.

Bobbie -- thank you so much for your insight.

SCHOLLEY: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: And that's it for us. We'll be back here at 10:00 Eastern.