Return to Transcripts main page

New Day Saturday

France, Belgium Hunt Terror Suspects; Potential GOP Candidates Head to Iowa; Disney Linked Measles Outbreak Worsens; Aaron Hernandez Trial May Begin Tuesday; Obama Going To Saudi Arabia To Pay Respects; Children Among Victims In Ukraine Shelling; ISIS To Japan: Pay $200M Or Hostages Die; Brutal Nor'Easter Hits New York, New Jersey

Aired January 24, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly a busy morning of news. Next hour of your NEW DAY starts right now.

We're following several developing stories this morning, first, President Obama planning to cut short his trip to India so he can travel to Saudi Arabia to pay respects to King Abdullah. Why the sudden change and how safe is this visit?

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: And just getting into CNN, Spanish authorities arrest four men suspected of being part of a terror cell with, quote, "a strong determination to attack targets."

BLACKWELL: Plus, nearly a month after the crash, divers are trying to pull Airasia Flight 8501 out of the Java Sea. Teams are using a complex system of lifting balloons to raise the wreck but they are having problems. The latest live from Indonesia.

PAUL: Boy, a busy morning, we're glad you're along for the ride with us here. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's 8:00 here on the east coast. Now as we mentioned, President Obama, he is cutting his visit to India short to travel on to Saudi Arabia. This is coming at a time when there is a lot of unrest in that region.

The change in plans comes after Saudi King Abdullah died this week at the age of 90. The president left this morning for New Delhi to visit India's prime minister.

We'll get to Jomana Karadsheh who is live in Amman, Jordan in a moment. But first, let's go to Erin McPike live at the White House. Erin, Vice President Biden was supposed to go on this visit to Riyadh. Why this change?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, the White House said overnight, basically, that they looked at the schedule more closely and saw that Vice President Biden would be landing in Saudi Arabia shortly before President Obama was scheduled to take off from India.

So they saw this schedule opening and decided Vice President Biden doesn't need to go and that President Obama can go instead. They also realized they had to cancel something in President Obama's schedule in India, which is that he will not be going to the Taj Mahal.

But let's also point out here that just a couple weeks ago, the White House came under a lot of scrutiny for not sending a high profile U.S. official either President Obama or Vice President Biden to Paris for that big rally, so it could be that the White House decided that this was very important to send President Obama.

I would also point out, Christi and Victor, that remember Saudi Arabia is maybe the biggest ally to the U.S. in the Middle East and has been instrumental in helping to fight ISIS.

You may remember back in September, it was major breaking news when Saudi Arabia agreed to host U.S. and coalition efforts to train Syrian opposition fighters in the fight against ISIS and also very big news when Saudi Arabia agreed to join in airstrikes against ISIS targets.

BLACKWELL: And one of the U.S.' strong partners for energy in the Middle East, in the world so, of course, it's an important relationship. Any indication of other world leaders who will be traveling to Saudi Arabia as well, Erin?

MCPIKE: We do know that British Prime Minister David Cameron is going as well as the French President Francois Hollande.

BLACKWELL: All right, Erin McPike, there at the White House for us. Erin, thank you so much.

PAUL: I want to bring in CNN's Jomana Karadsheh live from Amman, Jordan now. Jomana, we know that the president himself is going to meet with the new ruler of Saudi Arabia. Do we know what exactly will be on the agenda other than honoring King Abdullah?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is pretty much as we are seeing heads of state here, world leaders going to Saudi Arabia, really the main purpose of this is to pay respects to the late King Abdullah to the people of Saudi Arabia, and also to have face time and meet the new king, King Salman.

And it's also really reassuring message here that the United States is continuing its friendship with Saudi Arabia, those historic ties between the two countries over recent years.

There have been some tensions, a bit of strain when it comes to dealing with a number of regional issues that the United States dealt with differently than what Saudi Arabia would have liked to see when it comes to the nuclear negotiations with Saudi Arabia's main rival in the region, Iran.

And also when it comes to dealing with Syria, Saudi Arabia wanted to see the Assad regime toppled. They wanted to see more being done by the United States and the international community to topple the Assad regime.

Of course, very important for Saudi Arabia right now to have U.S. support, it's a very tense time in this region, Saudi Arabia surrounded by so much unrest that no king in the history of modern Saudi Arabia has inherited the kingdom surrounded by so much unrest, whether it's Yemen on its southern border or to the north with ISIS and its control of territory in Iraq and Syria.

PAUL: All right, Jomana Karadsheh, thank you so much as well as Erin McPike. We appreciate it from both of you.

BLACKWELL: Let's get to another breaking story now. At least 15 people including children have been killed after a shelling in Eastern Ukraine. This comes days after intense fighting between rebels and government forces. We have new video showing the aftermath.

You see the flames on the left of your screen, some of the devastation. We have on the phone with us from the capitol of Kiev, journalist, Victoria Botenco (ph). Victoria, tell us where this is happening and what you're hearing on the ground.

VICTORIA BOTENCO, JOURNALIST: Well, we have to understand how the Kiev has 450,000 people, strategic for the pro-Russian separatists. It's one of the options. It was close to keeping Russian border. What happens this morning, there were shots at the circle, multiple launchers so far as viewers to understand. Each launch destroyed the area of the second field as deep as two feet -- and civilian areas in the outskirts of the city (inaudible) --

BLACKWELL: Victoria -- we're having a little bit of difficulty understanding you, but we've gotten some -- I thank you for your report but we have a couple of details.

One of the victims, a 12-year-old girl that we're learning, one of the dead here and we have a tweet from U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, which he says, "Today's indiscriminate shelling is part of a Russian backed general offensive in complete violation of minced agreements."

So of course, we have U.S. response here, but 46 other people we understand have also received some shrapnel wounds, but 15 people dead in that incident. We'll stay on top of it. More later this morning.

PAUL: Also talking about a mother who is desperately pleading with ISIS to spare her son. Japan is vowing it's not giving up on efforts to rescue that man as well as his friend who is also being held captive. We're taking you live to Tokyo for the latest.

BLACKWELL: Plus, snow falling on Central Park this morning. We've seen the pictures. It's part of a brutal nor'easter hitting the region. Not so pretty. We'll have the forecast ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: Breaking news that we have coming in from Spain. We toss it out to Pamela Brown, who is live for us in Paris this morning. Good morning, Pam.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. More terrorism related arrests here in Europe this morning. We are learning that Spanish authorities have arrested four men in Spain's North African territory. Officials say they are two pairs of brothers who were strongly radicalized and prepared to carry out an attack and possibly blow themselves up.

Spanish officials say there are, quote, "many similarities" with the two brothers, Said and Cherif Kouachi, who carried out those recent attacks in Paris killing 12 people and a third suspect is believed to have killed a police woman near Paris and attacked a Jewish supermarket killing four others.

Here is what we know right now. The FBI is assisting authorities with analyzing data on laptops and finger prints and trying to track down other accomplices of the Paris attackers who might still be on the run.

They are also trying to find out more details on the four suspects in custody who are accused of providing logistical support to Amedi Coulibaly, the suspect who carried out that attack on a kosher market.

And at least five western hostages including American journalists met a gruesome fate at ISIS hands and now Japan is trying to save two of its citizens who are being held by the militants.

CNN's Will Ripley is following the story for us out of Tokyo. Will, a ransom deadline has come and gone. What's the latest?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The latest is that the Japanese government in spite of their best diplomatic efforts, intelligence efforts, monitoring social media accounts still has not been able to confirm any information about the status of these two Japanese hostages, Kenji Goto and Haruna Yukawa.

It's horrendous time for their families. They had to wait 72 hours, leading up to this deadline. The deadline passed and now in some ways the anxiety is almost worse because they don't have any moment that they are looking forward to now.

But there are all of these social media reports and unverified claims that ISIS is doing this or doing that that a video could pop up at any time. There are no answers. Don't know, and that's probably what's the most difficult part right now.

Certainly when we were speaking with friends of one of the hostages' wife, Kenji Goto's wife, he said that she said that even show she was surrounded by people, Pam, she felt completely alone and isolated because she's there with their newborn baby and no idea if her husband is going to come home.

BROWN: So heart wrenching. You know they are aware of what happened to the other five western hostages that were beheaded by ISIS. I can't imagine what the families are going through right now. What has Japan been doing to try to free these hostages?

RIPLEY: Well, you know, trying to make every effort through public means, through private faction, also try to get contact with ISIS. The public broadcaster here exchanged some e-mails with a person claiming to be a spokesman for the group, claiming that there was a statement coming at any moment. But it's now more than 24 hours since that statement was promised and there still has been none. For a lot of people in Japan, a country that doesn't engage in military activity, they watched from afar, the Islamic militant groups like ISIS and others and it has felt like something very far away from this island nation.

But this case is really bringing it home for a lot of people, Pam, and people are personally quite concerned for these two men, hoping that they come home safely and torn about what the Japanese government should do to try to resolve the situation. A lot of people say that even though they want these men home they

don't think Japan should even consider paying a ransom, potentially putting more money into the hands of ISIS allowing them to do more damage.

BROWN: All right, Will Ripley, I know you'll continue to follow the developments of this story, thank you very much.

I'm going to talk a little bit more about Will just brought up, paying ransom, what should countries do in these situations, to speak about that we have CNN political commentator, Buck Sexton, a former CIA counterterrorism analyst.

So Buck, you heard I was talking to Will about there, in your view what are the options for Japan right now? What should Japan be doing?

BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The options are very limited at this point. Given that the deadline has already passed, they are essentially trying to back channel and find ways to get in touch with either intermediaries or people in the Islamic State and beg for more time to come up with some kind of an agreement.

Part of the problem here, though, is that the demand for $200 million is even by a hostage taker standard is completely outrageous. In previous cases where there have been agreements met, where there have been hostages released it's been for a few million dollars.

The $200 million figure, the one that has been now put out there, is directly in response to the Japanese government $200 million in aid. So this is about the propaganda of saying look, if you're going to help in the region, if the Japanese government is going to donate $200 million to humanitarian efforts.

The Islamic State is going to call them out on it and say that anything that you do that helps the coalition in any capacity, means you are now a target. So this is really about the messaging from the Islamic State more than the money because they are not going to get $200 million.

BROWN: Right. So it makes you think they have no intention whatsoever from the get-go to even releasing these hostages. I want to switch gears now and talk to you about breaking news we're learning that the Spanish authorities have arrested four men suspected of being part of a terrorist cell.

You are a former CIA counterterrorism analyst. Tell us more about what goes into a hunt for terror suspects especially in this context of what we've been seeing across Europe with all of these arrests in the wake of the Paris attacks.

SEXTON: In the aftermath of the Paris attacks, security services, intelligence services all across Europe, including the Spanish services, are going to be moving more quickly because a lot of the time they have groups or individuals under surveillance.

They are suspected jihadists. They want to see who their connections are. They want to build more of a case. But once you see something happen like "Charlie Hebdo" and some of the other strikes across Europe, what you realize is that the timeline actually may be condensed.

Some of these jihadists, who have been under surveillance, might decide to accelerate their planning. So that means in the case of for example Spain, I know we're just getting the details about this particular cell, what you may have is a situation where they decided to -- the authorities decided to act more quickly.

Now once the initial arrest is made, there is then the secondary arrests that they can usually expect, facilitators, spiritual sanctioners, people who may have put them in contact with the Islamic State if that is in fact a group they are in contact with.

So there's never one arrest usually. There is the follow on investigation of people that may have helped them, people that may have been in contact with them and of course, the possibility of other operational cells who realize their time is limited so the authorities have to find them before they can strike.

BROWN: You know, it's interesting. I was talking to a law enforcement official here in Paris yesterday, and the sense I get, Buck, is that they are still trying to wrap their head around sort of the scope of this problem and trying to keep their heads above water. You wonder if we're doing everything we should be doing to combat this sort of new age of terrorism that we've entered into.

SEXTON: The threat of returning radicalized terrorists from the Islamic theater or fighting in Iraq and Syria, or just those who are going to strike in solidarity with the Islamic State or with al Qaeda more broadly, that's been around and the security services have been looking at that and trying to gauge that threat and deal with it for years as we know.

But, of course because of "Charlie Hebdo" now there is a sense that people are paying closer attention to the actions of the security services and are expecting them to take action. So, there's no such thing as a perfect posture for these kinds of things.

And you have to be right 100 percent of the time where the terrorists only have to be right once. I think the preparations they are taking and certainly the cooperation between services, whether here at home or with our European counterparts is going to be very strong. You'll have really robust information sharing. But even that is not necessarily enough if you have a hardened cell that has pretty good operational security and decides they are going to move to the attack phase.

BROWN: Right. It's not an exact science and comes down to a judgment call. Buck Sexton, thank you so much for coming on sharing your thoughts with us. We appreciate it.

SEXTON: Thank you. Victor and Christi, back to you in Atlanta.

PAUL: All right, Pamela, thank you so much. We're covering a big winter storm hitting the northeast. Take a look at the snow falling in Central Park, New York. It's pretty.

BLACKWELL: It is nice.

PAUL: Don't know if you want to venture out in it but that storm is moving north so people in Boston, buckle up and get ready.

BLACKWELL: Our photo journalist, Tom Juric, he is chasing it. He is in New Jersey. This is a shot through his wind shield. Raining now. The roads are slick but not as bad as they could be. We'll have more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: It's 23 minutes after the hour. Just before the break, we talked about New York and New Jersey watching out for this storm. But they are not the only ones waiting for this snow, ice, wintry mix, whatever is on the way.

PAUL: Which is always dangerous at the end of the day. Meteorologist, Ivan Cabrera, is joining us with your forecast. We know our friends in Boston, they are going to be feeling it, right?

IVAN CABRERA, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. I lived there 10 years so -- because only safe for a weatherman or woman to do it of course. Emergency vehicles and then the snow plows that are out there and trying to keep up. This is going to be an issue because the snowfall rates are coming down so heavy.

Here is the rain/snow line here. You see the pink beginning to mix in with a little sleet. As far as New York, you're done. So that is excellent news. All of this now continuing to move off to the northeast so I think Boston you have several more inches before this is all said and done and that will be later on tonight.

Then we'll get ready for the second storm. On the back side a little snowfall across well, the Appalachians at this point here, and even across the northern part of Georgia, the Blue Ridge Mountains is getting a little bit of snow. That will be melting in a short time.

So here goes our nor'easter continuing to push to the northeast. Windy conditions continue, on the back side of it a few lake-effect snow showers continue with the big story after this one will be the next clipper that will be moving in.

Once this begins to tap into Atlantic moisture we get in on snowfall. There is the clock Monday, 8:00 a.m. that's a mess. People trying to get into work so the earlier you can do that the better. Airport delays will continue there and additional accumulation.

So for this event that we're covering right now, winter weather advisories from Asheville up to Washington, D.C., but at this point again, that area I think you're pretty much done. It's Pennsylvania heading up towards New York and Connecticut especially and into Massachusetts, of course, New England, with typical nor'easters, the last to see the snowfall end. That's going to be the case.

Additional accumulations I think another two to four inches possible so the totals will range from 6 to as much as a foot of snowfall. We've seen that happening. Look at Pennsylvania picking up 7 inches, New Jersey 5 inches. I've seen some upwards of 6 inches.

So this will continue especially across New England at this point, but New York and points south and west I think we're done. That's good news there.

PAUL: Well, my girls would be happy with sledding. Nice.

BLACKWELL: Head to the Blue Ridge immediately.

CABRERA: Or Texas. It's been snowing there. The same storm. Can you imagine? They are making snowmen in Texas. How about that?

PAUL: It is something. Thank you so much, Ivan. Keeping us safe here and aware.

Listen, possible Republican candidates are making their presence known in Iowa except a couple. Couple big names and everybody's going what does that mean? You know our political panel has something to say about that. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We return to our terror coverage and some new developments out of Spain. This morning, Spanish authorities have arrested four men in Spain's North African territory. Officials say there are two pairs of brothers who were, quote, "strongly radicalized" and prepared to carry out an attack and possibly blow themselves up.

Spanish officials say there are, quote, "many similarities" with the two brothers, Said and Cherif Kouachi, who carried out the recent attacks in Paris killing 12 people.

Meanwhile, authorities in Europe are still hunting for potential terror suspects. Belgian authorities are also looking for a possible accomplice of the gunmen charged with killing four people at a Jewish museum last May. Here's what I found out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROWN (voice-over): Belgian authorities are trying to hunt down the man seen here reportedly walking behind suspected French-Algerian ISIS fighter, (inaudible) Nemush (ph). Officials say Nemush (ph) allegedly killed four people at the Brussels Jewish Museum last May.

Now the prosecutor in Brussels says this man may have been one of Nemush's accomplices in the museum shooting. This as authorities in Belgium continue efforts to track down Abdul Haid Abaaoud (ph), the alleged ringleader in a foiled attack targeting police officers earlier this month.

According to Interpol secretary general there is increased concern of Islamic radicalization across Europe.

JORGEN STOCK, INTERPOL SECRETARY GENERAL: We have independent source within our countries, maybe not in any command and control structure and of course, we have the lone wolves. And we have those returning from the conflict zones and posing threats to the countries where they come from.

BROWN: In the weeks following the Paris attacks, at least half a dozen European countries cracked down on terror cells arresting associates of the French attackers as well as those believed to be planning separate attacks.

STOCK: It's very difficult to detect plans, to identify plans before terrorists can take action against innocent people.

BROWN: In France authorities are scrambling to prevent another terrorist attack. The FBI is assisting French authorities with their investigation into the Paris attacks analyzing forensics, laptops, fingerprints and running names through databases as they look for other potential accomplices of the suspects Amedy Coulibaly and the Kouachi brothers.

Sources tell CNN it's believed several of their associates are hiding out in Syria including Coulibaly's wife Hayat Boumedienne last seen in Turkey. A defensive Turkish prime minister spoke to CNN's Richard Quest.

AHMET DAVUTOGLU, TURKEY PRIME MINISTER: We discovered that lady. We informed France. If we --

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But you lost her.

DAVUTOGLU: No. Because it was -- we were not informed in advance. We were not informed in advance. Can you blame Spain because she went through Spain? If you cannot blame France and Spain you cannot blame Turkey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: An official I spoke with involved in the investigation here in Paris says they are still waiting for the results of the latest forensics analysis. The official says they are still very much in the thick of it with this investigation -- Christi and Victor. PAUL: Pam, we know you have been there for about a week now. Do you

get an underlying sense that there is still some uneasiness there because this is an ongoing investigation?

BROWN: Absolutely. I mean they are still looking for a lot of answers to their questions, officials are, especially whether there are other potential accomplices living here in France or across Europe. But what's interesting here is there is a bit of a dichotomy. You see soldiers, cops -- more cops patrolling the streets. They're stationed outside of Jewish sites and outside of landmarks. But yet the people -- the Parisians really seem to not be sort of deterred by what's happened here.

We saw one man reading who was reading this latest Charlie Hebdo magazine with the Prophet Mohammed cartoon on the cover just in plain sight in daylight sitting on a bench outside. The magazine has been sold out at newsstands across the city. So it's clear that while on one hand, you know, there is stepped up security and officials are sort of on edge trying to investigate to see if there are others as part of their terror cell, the suspects' terror cell, the people very much are moving forward with their lives here.

BLACKWELL: But Pamela, the breaking news this morning the arrest by Spanish authorities of two pairs of brothers that at least they believe were planning an attack. I wonder if you can extrapolate from that and tell me if this is in your opinion a new normal, short-term, long-term for Western Europe?

BROWN: I think it's going to be long term. I was speaking to one law enforcement official here in Paris and he said the European theater is going to be one to watch for a long time. I was talking to him about, you know, heading back to the states, and I said I feel like when I head back something's going to happen. He said well, you will see a lot of arrests moving forward. This is just the beginning.

Especially you know, what the sense is here -- Victor and Christi -- is that we knew there was this problem of Europeans going over to fight with ISIS and now what we're seeing is sort of their worst fears coming to reality here with people coming back and actually wanting to launch attacks in their hometowns or being directed by ISIS. So, I can tell you the counter terrorism officials I've been speaking with are very busy and this is going to be something we see most likely for a long time to come just from the officials I've been speaking to who are really on the front lines of this problem.

PAUL: All right. Pamela Brown, live for us there in Paris. Pamela -- thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: And remember the attack that began this at least this most recent chapter, the shooting outside the offices of "Charlie Hebdo" and the tributes continue for the 12 victims there.

For ways to support and to pay tribute go to CNN.com/impact.

All right. Talking domestic politics -- Chris Christie, Ted Cruz, Rick Perry -- they're just some of the potential presidential candidates expected to take the stage today in Iowa. But will they be able to win over the conservative vote?

PAUL: And you know, a measles outbreak linked to Disneyland has officials on high alert this morning. Numbers are going up. The outbreak is expanding. What can be done about it at this point?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: All right. So some of the top Republicans in the country, they are taking part in an event in Iowa today. It's the Iowa Freedom Summit. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, Texas Senator Ted Cruz and Texas Governor Rick Perry are all courting conservative voters today.

Let's talk about the event and also those who will not be in attendance. We've got CNN political commentator, Democratic strategist Maria Cardona and CNN political commentator Buck Sexton. He is also a former CIA counterterrorism analyst.

Buck, I want to start with you. What does the list of attendees tell you about what they need potentially going into 2016, and what they may want to actually stay away from?

BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they are certainly hoping to gather momentum with the conservative base. You have some in the case of, for example, Ted Cruz who really has the base with him already and I think he just wants to show everybody that. This is an opportunity for him to show how much support he actually has among conservatives, among conservative grass roots as well.

I think the absentees tell you as much as anything else. As a matter of fact, you don't have Mitt Romney or Jeb Bush going because they have the infrastructure, they have the funding, the donor base. They figure that for them it's just a question of the decision to run. They don't actually have to worry whether they can get the money together and get the ground game together to actually do all this stuff.

I think it will be really interesting to see also Chris Christie how he plays outside of New Jersey and go to the Hawkeye State. I wonder how he's going to do with the conservative base out there. He's good on some issues obviously of dealing with unions and things that will appeal to them but he's also vulnerable on some others.

So it really depends a lot on what's said. But with Christie, with Walker, even with Perry to some degree this is just an opportunity to get a little ahead of the game and build some steam before we get beyond sort of the first leg of what's obviously going to be a very long race.

BLACKWELL: Maria, do you agree with that, that Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush are staying away because they are so confident or are they staying away because they don't want to be so close to Steve King?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the latter. I think what is so interesting about this Freedom Summit gathering is that, you know, I agree with Buck, you are seeing a lot of Republicans who think that they have to wave the flag and get the all important conservative vote going into 2016, but therein lies the problem with the whole GOP in terms of trying to get or trying to elect a nominee that can both get through the primary as well as be a real contender for the presidential election, the general election.

So I think what you're seeing is people like Mitt Romney who understands how awful -- what he went through during the GOP primary when he talked about self deportation, he needs to make sure that that doesn't happen again.

The candidates who are wrapping themselves around the Steve King rhetoric and policies which is what is happening at the Iowa Freedom Summit today, are going to have a very tough time to make it to the general election because as we all very well know, the GOP will never see the inside of la casa blanca, Victor, if they don't do a better job of trying to reach out to Latina voters.

BLACKWELL: I appreciate the Spanish there --

CARDONA: The Iowa Freedom Summit doesn't do it.

BLACKWELL: Thank you very much for the Spanish there -- Maria.

CARDONA: You're welcome.

BLACKWELL: We bring up Steve King because he is one of the sponsors along with -- representative of Iowa, Steve King, along with Citizens United. But we talk about this tweet. I want to bring this up. "Obama prefers prosecutorial discretion by inviting a deportable to sit in place of honor at State of the Union with First Lady". How does the GOP gain a greater percentage of Latino voters in America if Republicans, some of them, are rushing to be so close to someone who would tweet that?

SEXTON: Well, the idea is that you can actually -- if you're serious about immigration reform, if you're honest about immigration reform that you can appeal to Hispanic voters and you can also appeal more importantly to the broad swath of Americans who actually believe that the law should be enforced as it is. And they recognize that this is essentially a bait and switch, the idea that you have a border security bill will just get passed and then all of a sudden you'll start letting people move down the process of legalization.

They are not going to tie themselves to what somebody else said when it comes to all of their policies going forward. But I do think that the point about prosecutorial discretion is an obvious one, it's not just a correct one. The President of the United States himself had said on previous occasions that he did not have the authority to do this. He recognized that.

As we all know he is a constitutional professor, he understands the differences between the legislative branch and the executive branch except when it comes to politics. And he thought that he had a moment here as he says to go it alone and use the pen and the phone and do what he wants to do. and unfortunately, that really shreds at the distinctions at the separations of our powers. And I think if people recognize that the executive shouldn't be doing that, that President Obama knows he shouldn't and it was power politics. And it's unfortunate that he's gone down that path and I think the Republicans have an opportunity to show that law and order actually matters, the constitution matters and that they are not just going to do things like for example decide that they are going to ignore the law.

BLACKWELL: But -- go ahead. Go ahead.

CARDONA: That would be true if Republicans actually had an honest conversation about immigration reform, and stop passing bills that essentially say that all 12 million should be deported. They had a chance, they had a year and a half to pass the sensible bipartisan senate bill but they didn't do it. And so right now what we're seeing is in polls, in poll after poll the American people actually support what this president has done because they know that Republicans -- they know that -- yes, that's right. And guess what --

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: Hold on. One at a time.

CARDONA: The bill, the bill that the Senate passed included incredible border security measurements. So again, the American people are sensible. They think this president has done what he needed to do in the face of complete Republican obstructionism.

SEXTON: It's a question of the timeline. The idea that you pass a border security bill you add a little more funding and then the border is secure, I mean this is just laughable. And people know this the moment they actually read the bill. They actually recognize it. The truth is this actually shows --

CARDONA: Why do the American people support it then?

SEXTON: You have to show a metric -- you have to show metrics of the more secure border and then decide what to do with the population that is here legally. Otherwise the magnet is not turned and people continue to cross illegally and there's no change. You just have wave after wave of amnesty.

BLACKWELL: We have to wrap it up there. We have to wrap it up there.

CARDONA: I'll just say --

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: Maria --

CARDONA: Republicans have at it. Continue the talking points.

BLACKWELL: Maria -- we've got to close it there. Maria and Buck it was fun. We've got to wrap this up before you fall off the screen. You didn't see it but there was a camera issue there. So I thank you so much. Thank you both. CARDONA: Thank you.

SEXTON: Thank you.

PAUL: Always a lively discussion.

All right. The Disneyland linked measles -- that outbreak is getting worse. And it's not just about Disneyland anymore. We're asking a pediatrician why the disease is making a comeback and what can be done about it.

Also ahead as the New England Patriots head to the Super Bowl former tight end Aaron Hernandez heads to trial for murder. We'll tell you what's going on with his case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: 47 minutes past the hour.

Take a look at this map, won't you? These are the states where people, many children, have the measles right now. Total of 68 people, about 30 of them are kids, nearly all of those who are sick visited Disneyland in southern California. 48 linked to the theme park. But that leaves 20 who are not. The 68 confirmed cases we have here.

So let's bring in Dr. Isaac Thomsen. He's a pediatrician at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine joining us from Nashville. Doctor, thank you for being here -- what do you attribute this outbreak to? Why is it making a comeback?

DR. ISAAC THOMSEN, PEDIATRICIAN: You know, what we know about measles is it's a vaccine preventable illness so we've been giving the measles vaccine in this country for almost 50 years and because of that measles has become extremely rare. What we know about the vaccines is that it's extremely safe, so millions upon millions have received this vaccine over decades. And it's incredibly effective; it's at least 99 percent effective in preventing measles.

What we also know about the vaccine is that it requires people to take it. Measles is an extremely contagious virus, one of the most contagious viruses that we know of. And because it's so contagious it requires about 90 to 95 percent coverage of the vaccine in a community or in a population. If the percentage of people that are vaccinated drops below that 90 to 95 percent window that becomes a vulnerable population to infection and you can get outbreaks exactly like we're seeing here.

PAUL: Yes. And we were talking about being part of the park. But now with 20 of these 68 not affiliated with the park, I'm wondering what do you suggest we do to try to contain it?

THOMSEN: You know, the most important thing is any one that has not been vaccinated it's time to become vaccinated. Unfortunately sometimes what it takes, many generations now have not seen these illnesses and they don't have an appreciation and understanding, even a fear of these serious infections and many think that it's more a theoretical thing. And outbreaks like this drive home that this is a very real threat to our society.

You know, I think it's especially important to remember that there are some who can't receive the vaccine. There are children and adults who have issues with their immune system, serious illnesses, they can't receive the vaccine and they rely on us in society to do our part to protect them by a concept that's called herd protection, where if enough of the rest of the population becomes vaccinated these outbreaks will stop. You know we need 90 to 95 percent vaccination and we can halt outbreaks like this.

PAUL: Dr. Isaac Thomson, great point you make about the fact that if we haven't experienced it we forget how dangerous it is. Thank you so much. We appreciate your insight here -- Victor.

THOMSEN: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Former Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez is set to stand trial for murder. Up next, the road blocks the prosecution is running into and why Hernandez's fiancee could be the star witness.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: From the gridiron to the courtroom, the high profile case of former New England Patriots player Aaron Hernandez may begin Tuesday.

PAUL: Opening statements expected in the case of Hernandez who has pled not guilty to murdering semiprofessional football player Odin Lloyd, by the way.

BLACKWELL: CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti shows us how the prosecution is facing a much tougher case than previously thought.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The last time the New England Patriots played in the Super Bowl in 2012, Aaron Hernandez was on the field. This time he's sidelined, on trial for murder pleading not guilty.

No longer getting plays from his old bosses, coach Bill Belichick and team owner Bob Kraft. They are on the prosecution's witness list. The Patriots fired their star tight-end the day he was led out of his home in handcuffs arrested for the murder of semipro football player Odin Lloyd, shot seven times.

At first, it seems there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence against the star tight-end who's pleaded not guilty. 18 months later the case isn't the same.

MICHAEL MCCANN, LEGAL ANALYST: The universe of damning evidence has shrunk.

CANDIOTTI: Shrunk, thanks to a defense team scoring some victories. Arguably the biggest -- a text message from Lloyd to his sister, sent minutes before Lloyd was killed. Lloyd writes, NFL just so you know. A judge ruling it's inadmissible, not enough proof Lloyd thought he was going to die.

MCCANN: If the jury believes that Aaron Hernandez was with Odin Lloyd right before Odin Lloyd was killed, it's not a big leap to conclude Aaron Hernandez was involved in the murder of Odin Lloyd.

CANDIOTTI: Yet, prosecutors say they have surveillance videos of the victim getting into a car with Hernandez and co-defendants Earnest Wallace and Carlos Ortiz who have also pleaded not guilty to murder. Video of that same car driving into an industrial park, and later Hernandez back home less than a mile away, holding what prosecutors say is the alleged murder weapon. But, it was never found.

MCCANN: There is no murder weapon. Or, a witness that is credible would testify that Aaron Hernandez did it. There is no such witness.

CANDIOTTI: The judge also blocking any mention Hernandez' indicted for two more murders in Boston. Prosecution witness Alexander Bradley can't say he is suing Hernandez for allegedly shooting him in the face a few months before Lloyd's murder. Will the state overcome any weaknesses?

MCCANN: There still is a good amount of circumstantial evidence against Aaron Hernandez. It just isn't the slam dunk case it seemed to be.

CANDIOTTI: Susan Candiotti, CNN, Fall River, Massachusetts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: All right. Let's bring in CNN commentator Mel Robbins. Mel, good to see you. What do you think the prosecution is going to come up with out of the gate?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Hey, Christi. Hey Paul. Hey Christi. Hey Victor. You know, I literally am shocked at how badly this case has unraveled. But out of the gate what the prosecutors are going to have to say because they cannot refer to the other two murders, they can't refer to the text messages from the victim right before, and they also cannot refer to one of the witnesses who said he was shot in the face by Hernandez.

They are going to have to lean very heavily on two things, guys -- all this surveillance tape. They have surveillance tape from all around Boston showing the four of them driving around in this Nissan Ultima. You also are going to see surveillance tape of them in his house. And you're going to see surveillance tape of Aaron Hernandez coming back into his house.

And the second major piece of evidence is Hernandez' fiancee. Now, this gets really interesting. And it's interesting because they are not married. In the state of Massachusetts, there is spousal immunity but you have to be married. You cannot be just a common-law spouse that's been together for a number of years. You can't be a fiancee so she can be compelled to testify, you guys.

And prosecutors are pretty convinced or they at least suspect that she's the one that got rid of the weapon because remember, in this case we don't have a gun, we don't have a witness to this murder and we also don't have any one of the three defendants turning on each other. This is a very, very difficult case to win but not necessarily impossible.

BLACKWELL: So you mentioned witnesses potentially, defense witnesses, but I want to talk about the prosecution's witnesses. On the witness list Coach Bill Belichick and Patriots owner Bob Kraft -- why?

ROBBINS: You know, Victor, I'm not sure why. They have 305 witnesses listed on the list. They may be bringing them in simply to ask, you know, in terms of the timelines because the owner, Kraft, and Belichick, when this thing caught wind here in Boston they weren't fooling around. The second that he was under investigation and he was let out of his house he was off the team. Unlike many other, you know, teams in the league where their players get arrested, they are alleged to have done pretty terrible things and they stay on the roster, he was out.

And so they might bring them in simply because of the star power of those witnesses. And the fact that both Kraft and Belichick will testify to the fact that these allegations were serious -- serious enough that they were wanting to kick him off the team even though he hadn't been convicted of anything -- Victor.

PAUL: Ok. 30 seconds real quickly, Hernandez we know also facing murder charges in another incident that left two men dead back in 2012. Where does that stand?

ROBBINS: Well, that case has been separated from this one. And typically when you're prosecuting cases or a defendant that has multiple cases, you guys, you go with your strongest case first. There are no witnesses in that case, it's only surveillance tape -- again they don't have a gun. So basically, you've got a guy here who fell from grace so profoundly, he is facing not one murder, two murder cases, he's also facing a third criminal trial that stems from an assault in jail and he's facing civil allegations. This will be a very interesting case to watch -- Christi and Victor.

PAUL: Glad you're on it. Thank you, Mel Robbins. We appreciate it

ROBBINS: Great to see you both.

BLACKWELL: We'll see you back here at 10:00 Eastern.

"SMERCONISH" starts right now.