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New Day Saturday

Coalition Unleashes New Airstrikes On ISIS; World Leaders Race For Peace Deal; New Focus In Bobbi Kristina Investigation; ISIS Claims Hostage Killed, Shows No Proof; NBC to Investigate Brian Williams; Death Toll Climbs in TransAsia Plane Crash

Aired February 07, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: New details this is morning that ISIS is getting hit and hit hard by airstrikes. Activists claiming at least 47 terrorists were killed in a single strike.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: And we're learning more about the U.S. woman who ISIS claims died in those airstrikes. Now there is word that terrorists demanded almost $6 million for her safe return.

PAUL: And new questions into what really happened to Bobbi Kristina Brown, authorities now say she has injuries that need explanation.

BLACKWELL: It's 8 a.m. here on the east coast. Good morning. I'm Victor Blackwell.

PAUL: I'm Christi Paul. Good to see you. We do want to begin with breaking news. Coalition forces unleashing at least a dozen new airstrikes against ISIS.

BLACKWELL: The latest offensive taking place in the Iraqi city of Mosul. Let's get right to CNN's Phil Black. We want to point out. Phil is one of the few western journalists in that immediate area. Phil, what are you hearing there, what are you seeing?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Behind me is the most important piece of territory that ISIS still controls in Northern Iraq, Mosul. It is Iraq's second biggest city and you see it here from top of Mt. Zartek where I'm standing it's one of the closest positions occupied by the Kurdish fighters, the Peshmerga, who have drawn a defensive line around that ISIS-controlled city.

From up here there is a commanding view into Mosul from the south and the towns and villages which surround it and which are still occupied by ISIS as well. On this day, overhead has been the constant sound of aircraft, fast-moving aircraft we have seen what appears to be a slower moving, larger reconnaissance aircraft of some kind.

And then frequently, repeatedly often very close to one another, the sound of large blasts in the distance. It is a hazy day, not the best day to view Mosul from this location, but you still have a very clear idea of what lies between the lines that have been established by the Kurdish fighters around the south and southwest of this city, and that no-man's-land between leading up to Mosul itself.

The strategy for the Kurdish fighters is to circle this city, to cut it off and choke it off in particular from re-supply across the border in Syria. That is what these fighters are aiming to do, not just on this front but also from the southwest and the west as well near the area of the Syrian border.

The idea is to cut off ISIS, weaken them, prevent them from re-supply ahead of anticipated major operation, an advance to try and re-claim this very important city from their control. That operation is still looks like to be months away. Phil black, CNN in Northern Iraq.

BLACKWELL: All right, Phil Black reporting for us, thank you.

PAUL: Let's talk with CNN global affairs analyst and former U.S. Delta Force Commander Lieutenant Colonel James Reese. Lt. Colonel Reese, thank you for being with us. ISIS we know has continued to reinforce its defense around the city of Mosul as we just heard there. If that continues, the Pentagon could recommend sending U.S. ground troops. Do you believe that will happen?

LT. COLONEL JAMES REESE (RETIRED), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Christi, I do, but again, we've talked about this for several weeks now. I believe that those ground troops will be enabling troops, close air -- people who call close air support, people who can work with the ISR, to do the -- some of the intelligence pieces.

I do not think you're going to see front line units going in and fighting side by side. Probably Special Forces that are there in their train and assist mode to help bring the Iraqi forces to make sure they are synced between the battalions that are fighting this. But I don't see a battalion or brigade of U.S. forces going in and fighting side by side with the Iraqis.

PAUL: All right, well, we know this week Jordan released video showing the world, basically, the country's operations against the terror group, they posted video of soldiers writing messages to ISIS on bombs, of women working on planes, there's even a pilot giving a thumbs up before a flight. Was that a smart move, are there risks to that?

REESE: Well, Christi, we do the same thing. I mean, those pilots, if you watch any video of U.S. F-16s or the F-22s going up, the pilots get set up, give a thumbs up to their air crew. They salute and take off. That's standard SOP for these teams.

For the Jordanians it's showing that they are fired up and they have got national unity going on right now. And even with the bombs, our kids did that on the carriers while they are doing those things, they wrote when we were going to Afghanistan and Iraq they wrote messages on them.

So it's the young soldiers for all the U.S. did it, Jordanians do it. There is a lot of passion and it's natural, I think it's fine.

PAUL: Sure. So, ISIS is claiming that this American aid worker was killed yesterday and that she was killed in Jordanian air strikes. Of course, there's a lot of people think how do they know. There is no credibility in is. We don't know if we can believe that. What options are there to decipher where Kayla Mueller is right now?

REESE: Well, we think that she was in Syria and we all know that in Syria right now our level of intelligence is not as good as it is in Iraq and other places so that's a key issue. The Jordanians do have a very strong human intelligence throughout the entire area.

So that could be one of the areas. It is very plausible that she is there, but we know that she was there during the air strikes but we know that ISIS is not dependable and their word has not been kept at all, so it's a 50-50 right now, we have to keep working the intelligence pieces across the board try to get some human to see if we can confirm that.

PAUL: All right, Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, appreciate you being here with us. Thank you.

REESE: Thank you. Good morning.

BLACKWELL: New this morning federal officials have charged six people, five of those people here in the U.S. with aiding terrorists overseas. Accused of conspiring to provide money and war gear to terrorists in Syria and Iraq and other places, and those materials are alleged to include military uniforms.

The suspects all emigrated to the U.S. from Bosnia. Five arrested in this country, one arrested overseas. We have CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes with us.

Tom, I want to talk about the uniforms in a moment. First, the defendants coming to the U.S. from Bosnia, this is a country that for most people is new to this conversation, maybe not for those in the law enforcement community. Are you surprised by that?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, Victor, I'm not. The country of Bosnia might be new but Bosnians are not new. ISIS has recruited people to assist them or go fight and join them from 50 different countries around the world including Asia, including Eastern and Western Europe, including North America, Australia, so this is nothing new that you could have a group of individuals from a particular country get involved and come up on FBI radar trying to support ISIS.

BLACKWELL: Reuters reported this week that the ISIS flag was spotted in a small town in Bosnia and was immediately taken down. A community, a small but growing community there of those who follow Wahhabis.

Now let's talk about those U.S. military uniforms reporting says they were providing, is this because in your opinion that that's what was available or do you believe that there could possibly be some other plan here to infiltrate any ranks that would be coming to that area?

FUENTES: That's hard to tell, Victor, at this point. I think that if they were trying to infiltrate it would be more easily done if the we actually had tens of thousands of troops on the ground in Syria and in Iraq and they could try to slip in, maybe approach a check point and look like American soldiers and then when they get close detonate a suicide bomb or a truck bomb, IED. But we don't know. I think that it could be that they were just available, but we'll see when they disclose more about the investigation, what the intent was.

BLACKWELL: How does the law enforcement community get this intel and capture them? Is there chatter, is there following the website? How did they find this group of people?

FUENTES: You can start with chatter. You can start with the website, social media, people telling friends, a group like this the fact there are six individuals, right away you know that not all six are going to be able to keep a secret. They are going to talk to people.

If the each one talks to ten other people that's 60 people that know about it that any one of whom could call the FBI or the local police and report the intent of this group. So there's a spider web of communication that goes out among the members of the group or wannabe members.

That's what law enforcement relies on that somehow someone will report that or pick it up monitoring a web site, and get an idea that this is in progress.

BLACKWELL: Yes, these people in Missouri, in Illinois, also in New York. Tom Fuentes, thank you so much.

FUENTES: Thank you, Victor.

PAUL: After more than 5,000 deaths, can world leaders work out an end to the bloodshed in Ukraine? We'll get some answers from the former U.S. ambassador to Russia.

Plus new details in the case of Whitney Houston's daughter, she is still in a coma, but investigators now have a new focus and they are saying she has injuries that, quote, "need explanation."

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PAUL: More than 5,000 people have died, nearly one million were displaced, and this is according to the United Nations and still no peace deal in Ukraine's vast humanitarian crisis. While artillery fires continue in the streets this morning, world leaders are in Germany right now and they are racing to stop all of this bloodshed.

CNN Nick Paton Walsh has the latest for us from Donetsk.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christi, Victor, you can't hear it behind me is the consistent heavy sound of artillery strikes. That's been happening all night and again this morning increasingly toward the city center, the capital of the self- declared separatist People's Republic here and it's got a backdrop conducive to peace at all. We have that extraordinary spectacle of the heads of two of the largest colonies in Europe, Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande going to see Vladimir Putin, suggesting a peace proposal and leaving early the following morning with the idea that little to say other than the talks have been constructive.

There may be more on Sunday, but nobody went back to the ceasefire they signed up to last year in Minsk. That suggests that the separatists are continually hearing clashes with the Ukrainian military, perhaps increasingly confident.

They are well equipped too and many concerned that given how Angela Merkel characterized those peace talks as being perhaps uncertain in their success. Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Donetsk.

BLACKWELL: Joining us now is Thomas Pickering, the former U.S. ambassador to Russia. Sir, good to have you.

THOMAS PICKERING, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: Nice to be with you, Victor. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Help us understand what's going on this morning in Munich that would be different from what we saw with the meeting with Hollande and Merkel.

PICKERING: I don't think an awful lot. Much is going to depend upon whether the so called telephone calls for Sunday are able to produce anything more conclusive than Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande were able to produce at the Kremlin yesterday.

And that doesn't seem to be a very optimistic piece at the moment. The evident to get back to the Minsk agreement is very important, but it's very clear that President Putin is not inclined in that direction.

He is trying to shape a solution perhaps at the first stage, but maybe as an end stage one doesn't know, toward another frozen conflict so that, in fact, the eastern portions of Ukraine dominated by the separatists and now supplied I think fairly heavily and very often by the Russians, can become sort of semi-independent buffer zones and areas controlled by Russia.

And which then Russia can try to use to continue to influence Ukrainian government outcomes. Merkel and Francois Hollande have wanted to preserve Ukrainian territorial integrity which is very important and shut down the fighting.

And this is a tough row to hoe. That's against the backdrop obviously of the conversations and consideration going on in the United States about increasing our support, anti-tank weapons, surveillance drones, radar to counteract some of the shelling a way to put on pressure.

I don't think anybody believes that there is a military solution in sight here, but the idea some combination of further military pressure and the increasing economic pressure on Mr. Putin could perhaps bring him around to realizing that there's really in the long term very little for Russia to gain for this kind of short-term tactical engagement of his.

BLACKWELL: Angela Merkel has said when she came out of the meeting of the three leaders that there is no solution that she's willing to be involved with that will go over the heads of leadership in Ukraine. Do you see that at any point in these negotiations there will be some ground, some purview allowed to be given to Russia, to Putin over the land that's now controlled by the Ukrainian government?

PICKERING: Well, in one way we have to go back to the president who earlier on I think back in September agreed to a degree of autonomy and that obviously opened the door for Russian influence and indeed some recognition of special rights in these two parts of Ukraine.

He is prepared to do it elsewhere for the Russian speakers, something that in some ways looked like it was opening the door to a compromise without shredding territorial integrity in Ukraine. And that remains the basis, I think, for hopes here. But it doesn't this stage look as if the Mr. Putin is ready to settle for that kind of a deal.

BLACKWELL: All right, former U.S. ambassador to Russia, Thomas Pickering, thank you so much. In a few minutes, we'll have this conversation a little more. We'll talk about Jordan as well.

And as the conflict worsens in Ukraine, civilians are falling victim to the crossfire. For ways you can help support victims of the crisis in Ukraine, go to cnn.com/impact.

PAUL: Stay with us because there are new details in the Bobbi Kristina Brown investigation. Officials turning attention to one person in particular, someone very close to the daughter of Whitney Houston.

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PAUL: It's 22 minutes past the hour. New developments in the case of Bobbi Kristina Brown, the daughter of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown is still in a medically induced coma. According to sources the 21- year-old daughter has injuries that have not been explained.

BLACKWELL: CNN national reporter, Nick Valencia joins us now. Where is this investigation going? What's happening with that?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We talked about our sources with knowledge of the investigation says that police have now turned their attention towards Nick Gordon, who is officially the boyfriend of Bobbi Kristina, the man that she called her husband though there is no official documents of them being married.

As you mentioned there are some injuries she has that she sustained that police want to know how she actually got these injuries and how she ended up face down in that bathtub. We believe she is still in medically induced coma though officially her condition has not been released by the hospital.

Of course, there is HIPAA privacy laws. On Monday, though, we should mention that she briefly opened her eyes according to family sources and had a seizure. Now medically we don't know the significance of that, but we can report that she is still hospitalized right now.

PAUL: Well, what are you learning about this arrest warrant that apparently was issued for her days before she was found in the tub?

VALENCIA: Yes, seemingly just can't get out of trouble. There are more and more legal things piling up. She had a failure to appear in court because she was driving around with expired tags.

She was asked to go to court. She didn't show up and because of that they have an arrest warrant and now that arrest warrant has been pulled back because of the current circumstances of what's happening right now.

BLACKWELL: We know that her grandmother has now made it to Atlanta.

VALENCIA: That's right. She is said to be at the bedside at Emory Hospital, she was transferred at one hospital about 45 minutes north of the city, now at another hospital closer to downtown Atlanta and her family we're told as recently as Monday was told by the hospital to prepare for the worst. We don't know exactly her current condition as I mentioned.

PAUL: All right, Nick Valencia.

BLACKWELL: Thank you so much.

PAUL: A peacemaker that's how a college professor describes Kayla Mueller, the U.S. now trying to determine whether ISIS claims that the young American aid worker is dead are true.

And will Brian Williams be suspended from NBC? That's what a lot of people are asking. We're going to talk about that coming up. Stay close.

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BLACKWELL: Here at the bottom of the hour now and we are following breaking news this morning.

PAUL: Coalition warplanes are going after ISIS in Iraq and Syria as we speak. This is new video we're getting in to CNN here. Our crew in Northern Iraq just sent it our way. You see the aircraft there streaking through the sky.

BLACKWELL: The crew tells us at least a dozen air strikes targeted the stronghold of Mosul, they could hear the impacts, and then across the border coalition warplanes are hitting ISIS targets in Northern Syria. There have been at least ten explosions near the militants' stronghold of Raqqa, 47 ISIS fighters have been killed.

PAUL: In the meantime, the U.S. is trying to determine whether ISIS' claims that a Jordanian airstrike killed an American hostage, whether those claims are true.

BLACKWELL: And the family of Kayla Mueller is imploring ISIS to contact them and let them know if she is still alive. CNN's Kyung Lah joins us live with more on the young woman friends say only wanted to help.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's certainly a common thread in her life, Victor. She wanted to help others here in this town and around the

world, her family choosing to stay private and still hoping that this is another one of ISIS' lies.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAH (voice-over): Police closed off the street leading to the Mueller family home as Kayla Mueller's mother and father grapple with how their child who gives so much is trapped in war's brutality.

But it was the very atrocities of war that drew Mueller, in Syria she felt compelled to help the victimized. In 2011 she posted this video protest online.

KAYLA MUELLER, ISIS HOSTAGE: I am in solidarity with the Syrian people. I reject the brutality and killing that the Syrian authorities committing against the Syrian people.

LAH: By the following year she would make her first trip to the Syrian/Turkish border oceans away from her quiet hometown of Prescott, Arizona. But even growing up she longed to engage in the wrongs of the world. Todd Geiler is a doctor close with the family.

TODD GEILER, MUELLER FAMILY FRIEND: The daughter is one of those folks that looks for the good in everything and in that vein she goes on ahead and tries to look for her God's center with the way she looks and acts day-to-day life.

LAH: In high school her paper showed her marching through town as part of the Save Darfur Coalition, lobbying members of congress and staging silent protests against the genocide. As a student at Northern Arizona University, Mueller was president of a group called STAND, a student-led movement to end mass atrocities.

After graduating, she joined aid agencies that took her to India, Israel and the Palestinian territories. She came home briefly in 2011, volunteering at a woman's shelter and an HIV AIDS clinic, Northland Cares. The director telling CNN, "She was truly a remarkable woman. We are all very sad."

But Mueller could not ignore the unfolding crisis in Syria. The children, she told her local paper, captured her heart. In May of 2013, she spoke at the Prescott Kiwanis club where her father is a member. She said "For as long as I live I will not let this suffering be normal."

Just two months later as she left a hospital in Aleppo, Syria she was kidnapped. Her family would hear nothing until ten months later. ISIS demanded a ransom of nearly $7 million or they would kill Kayla on August 13.

As Jordan begins its air strikes against ISIS, this photo from ISIS, and their claim that those air strikes killed Mueller, unsubstantiated likely a twisted ploy in the ISIS propaganda game.

Mueller's parents in a public statement directly to ISIS urged her captors to contact them privately and added "We are still hopeful that Kayla is alive."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH: Now, that statement continues to say that they had followed ISIS demands to keep Kayla Mueller's identity out of the press for so long, that they had secured the work of journalists around the world, the cooperation of journalists including CNN as a news agency that knew her identity and would not release it. They urged her captors to now reach out to them so they could speak privately about Kayla Mueller -- Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Kyung, is there any indication of how this family was communicating with ISIS or how frequently?

LAH: It's a little unclear. The family has not directly said how they are communicating but the best way to describe it is that release that came from ISIS saying that the Jordanian air strike is the one that killed Kayla Mueller, again unsubstantiated. But there was an e- mail address. They had released her e-mail address so there are suspicions that it may be via e-mail that they were speaking.

BLACKWELL: All right. Kyung Lah for us, in Prescott, Arizona. Thank you so much -- Kyung.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN HOST: Let's bring back Thomas Pickering into this conversation. He's a former U.S. ambassador now works at the Brookings Institute in Washington. Ambassador, thank you for sticking around. First of all --

THOMAS PICKERING, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: Thank you.

PAUL: -- of course, how skeptical should we really be about ISIS claim?

PICKERING: I think we have to be skeptical until there is some proof. Obviously, all our hearts go out to a family, this person, Kayla is being used as a pawn in ISIS' effort to -- in one way or another to keep itself front and center with its brutality and the horror on the television and indeed in the news sources of the world -- part of their own campaign I think to try to use this activity to influence public opinion.

So far in Jordan that's backfired and I think elsewhere in the Middle East we'll see it backfiring.

PAUL: You know, a lot of experts said the burning of that Jordanian pilot was a real turning point in this conflict. How prepared do you think Jordan is -- how committed are they for a long haul fight here?

PICKERING: Well, I think knowing his majesty King Abdullah and indeed his determination and the reaction we have seen in the Jordanian public which has been a shift, many were thought to be sympathetic with ISIS, that's shifted. The demonstrations have moved, the Jordanian armed forces are not large. They are capable, particularly their air force and special forces and there is some discussion of sending ground forces I would presume that would be into Iraq to support those who we are preparing with the idea in mind that we will be some kind of a push in the relatively near future, and that the Jordanians and their air action will help to set the stage.

But they are a relatively small part of the activity that has been primarily conducted by Americans. Recent figures showed something like almost 1,000 American sorties to just a little short of 80 on the part of the non-American participants in the coalition.

PAUL: I want to read something really quickly from Frida Ghitis a world affairs columnist for the "Miami Herald" and she wrote this on CNN.com. That -- she's talking about the group's horrific tactics -- "By advertising its methods ISIS intimidates the armies it faces, causing some soldiers to flee before battle even leaving their weapons behind as we saw when you ISIS took over Mosul. The executions of hundreds of enemy soldiers, those who chose to fight have appeared in videos, a warning to others."

When you read that you wonder I mean, we know ISIS does not use traditional tactics and strategies here. How does that complicate this global fight?

PICKERING: Well, it does complicate it. It's part of what ISIS has mastered in what we could call asymmetrical activities to try to expand its own capacities, its own control, and where it's going. A really interesting question here is, how much is the Sunni population of northern Iraq, which was relatively sympathetic to ISIS because of their concern about past abuses on the part of the Iraqi government, going to continue to put it this way, to enjoy living under ISIS? And how much can we and others persuade the present Iraqi government, that it has an obligation and indeed a serious interest, in treating the Sunni population of Iraq fairly and openly? Or will in fact this population have to decide between what it considers to be two potential sources of oppression, and where will that come out?

And indeed that's an important longer term factor. But politics and military here are intimately combined and is has sought to try to use these sometimes with good effect, sometimes with bad effect.

PAUL: Well, you know, the pilot that was killed, the Jordanian pilot was a Sunni Muslim. And it made me wonder is that enough itself to bring the Sunnis to join some sort of forces with the Iraqi government?

PICKERING: Probably not. And indeed the Iraqi Sunnis, while sympathetic obviously with the death of a Jordanian Sunni pilot, will also go back and remember their difficult times under the Maliki government and other Iraqi governments.

And of course, they themselves under Saddam Hussein ran the country and the Shia had difficulties and problems. So this is a long standing, very difficult and somewhat tension-ridden situation that's not going to be easily resolved and it will be the backdrop of what we see potentially as a coming military effort against ISIS in the north, but in my view, that is very important to accompany with political efforts and to attack and deal with the problems that you and I have been discussing just now, of how and in what way can the Sunni population of northern Iraq be brought over to the party inside of the Iraqi government and much of that will be in the hands of the Prime Minister al-Abadi in Iraq.

PAUL: Sure. Ambassador Thomas Pickering, we really appreciate your insight this morning. Thank you for being with us.

PICKERING: Thank you -- Christi.

BLACKWELL: Coming up, what do the embarrassing revelations from Brian Williams mean for the future of the NBC News brand? A quick break and we'll have more on that.

Also, the death toll continues to climb following the TransAsia plane crash. All of this as some amazing new video is released from the rescue of one of the flight's survivors.

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BLACKWELL: 18 minutes to the top of the hour.

Question this morning, can Brian Williams survive this controversy? That's what a lot of people are asking.

NBC has launched an internal investigation into false claims made by its "Nightly News" anchor. In a memo to staffers NBC News president Deborah Turness wrote, quote, "This has been a difficult day for all of us. We have a team dedicated to gathering the facts to help us make sense of all that has transpired. We're working on what's the next step -- the next best steps are, rather and when we have something to communicate we will, of course, share it with you."

This kind of broke Wednesday when Williams apologized for repeatedly lying about a personal experience from 2003. Williams claimed he was aboard a helicopter hit by a rocket propelled grenade in Iraq when he was actually on a different helicopter.

Let's bring in now my colleague and CNN senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter. We also have Joey Reiman, CEO of Brighthouse Consulting here. Good to have both of you.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

JOEY REIMAN, CEO, BRIGHTHOUSE CONSULTING: Thanks.

BLACKWELL: I want to start with you, Brian. Is there any indication of what this investigation looks like and will it expand beyond this Iraq chopper story?

STELTER: Well, I can tell you that they've started to interview some of the soldiers involved at least as of last night. NBC producers are reaching out to the people that were actually aboard the helicopter that actually took this RPG strike and trying to figure out their stories and verify their stories so they know exactly what Brian Williams said that was wrong.

We don't have guidance yet Victor on whether this investigation will expand to other stories that are now starting to be scrutinized. The biggest one is Brian Williams accounting of Hurricane Katrina. There were several statements he made on the air and in blog posts that are now coming under scrutiny; now people asking if he had all of the facts straight on that story.

I don't want to go too far on that because it's very early and we don't have all the facts. But the question is whether people are now going to scrutinize lots of Brian Williams' stories whether NBC is going to take that seriously as well.

BLACKWELL: Joe, we were talking during the break.

REIMAN: Right.

BLACKWELL: And you said one of the biggest problems is silence -- not hearing from Brian Williams for so long.

REIMAN: That's right. Silence in this case is not golden. Actually, you know, people tell lies with words, but they also tell lies with silence. A good watch out is that the word "silent" and "listen" have the same letters in them. And when people like this are silent, other people want to listen. And people want to hear something from Brian.

BLACKWELL: And Joey, when your brand is trust, when your brand is -- I have been there, they have these promos, I have been there, I will be there, and you have a person on air who is being investigated at the same time, that has to undermine the brand.

REIMAN: Absolutely. Every time there's a fib, that trust that turns into rust, the rust actually ruins the brand. And this is a case I think after 30 years and I think almost 10 million viewers, I think he is in good shape.

BLACKWELL: What do you think? Do you think he's in good shape -- Brian?

STELTER: I am -- you know, I'd be surprised if Brian Williams is not sitting at the anchor desk next week. I think NBC has a very tough decision here, you know, about what's going to hurt more, take disciplinary action or not take disciplinary action. But the fact that within the TV industry people are openly speculating about whether he will survive and openly talking about who could succeed him.

I mean this is an extraordinary change for him. Like you said he is the number one news anchor in the United States and I'll tell you something that is sort of weirdly funny, Victor. On Wednesday before this broke I was actually going to write a story about how Brian Williams' ratings were on the rebound.

He had been losing a little bit to David Muir at ABC. Lately he's come back. He is firmly number one right now across the nation. He has been in a very good place and he renewed his contract just two months ago at NBC, reportedly a five-year deal that takes him almost to the end of the decade. He was in a very strong position. But then these questions came up.

BLACKWELL: You know, you mentioned just a moment ago the Hurricane Katrina coverage now scrutinized. Brian Williams said that he saw a dead body float by the five-star hotel he was staying in, in the French Quarter. And there have been questions about what happened there.

Let's listen. We've actually got part of the interview with Michael (inaudible).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: When you look out of your hotel room window in the French Quarter and watch a man float by face down. When you see bodies that you last saw in Banda Ache, Indonesia and swore to yourself that you would never see in your country, I beat that storm. I was there before it arrived. I rode it out with people who later died in the Superdome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now the "New Orleans Advocate", they reported that that area was saved from most of the really traumatic flooding but they have released some pictures there showing there was water but if you look, it's shallow enough to where you can see the sidewalk through it, but still the boat bobbing here.

Brian, (inaudible) you don't want to get in the pattern of checking every single story because inevitably there will be maybe one small detail and for that you have your main anchor apologizing over and over.

STELTER: You know, this is a complicated one because it's hard to verify some of the rather vague things he said. He wasn't naming specific individuals and we don't know whether people he was quoting for example, but there is very real scrutiny now on these Hurricane Katrina stories and these other ones from Katrina that are also coming under review.

So the question is whether NBC will also review them. I agree with your other guest, silence here is only making it worse for Brian Williams. I'm sure NBC is advising or requiring him not to speak, but in that vacuum everybody else is speaking. Everybody else is reviewing it. And that only makes it worse for him.

BLACKWELL: Joey.

REIMAN: Yes. The bottom line for Brian is that NBC in this case stands for "not being canceled".

BLACKWELL: What should they do? Should they keep him on the air?

REIMAN: Absolutely. He needs to follow the, you know, follow the ABC's. Anchor himself in trust. Be Brian, be authentic. The word authentic and authority they come from the same root. Most importantly clear the air. This guy's got to come forward, stand up. If he does not define himself the public will define him.

STELTER: Let me say he does have decades of credibility. He has gained lots of goodwill over a long period time so that doesn't vanish overnight -- maybe.

BLACKWELL: All right. Joey Reiman, Brian Stelter -- thank you so much.

REIMAN: Thanks.

BLACKWELL: Christi.

PAUL: All right. The death toll is continuing to climb following the TransAsia plane crash. All of this as some amazing new video is being released. We're going to show you more of this rescue of one of the flight's survivors. Stay close.

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PAUL: I want to share new video released this morning. Look at this in the circle there -- a passenger banging on the window. This was minutes after TransAsia airline 235 plunged into that river. You see the survivor trying to get the attention of rescue workers there. From all reports this person did get out alive.

Recovery teams discovered however another body this morning -- hundreds of meters from the crash site. Of the 58 people on board, 40 died, 15 survived and three are still unaccounted for.

And we're hearing new details about what went wrong on the flight. Taiwanese aviation officials say the pilots dealt with problems involving both engines, before the plane clipped a bridge and crashed into the river there.

I know you've seen this video. You can hardly believe it every time you see it. Two engines reportedly stopped producing power, one after the other leaving the plane without thrust for more than a minute.

Let's talk with CNN's David Molko. He's in Taipei right now. So investigators know, do they know why the engines may have shut down, both of them?

DAVID MOLKO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christi -- the pieces of the puzzle certainly coming together. Yes, it's true investigators say that both engines did stop producing thrust at some point during that flight. Remember, this all happened in less than three minutes. The plane was in the air for just a matter of minutes. And pilots did attempt to restart one of the engines. They did so successfully restart it but it happened too late to be able to avoid that crash.

What the lead investigator here is saying with the Aviation Safety Council, that's the organization that is looking into this, is he is saying yes, it is clear that the right engine warning went off about 30 seconds after take-off. But he is saying that there were conversations that among the pilots talking about the opposite engine and that that shows that that other engine was then shut down, which was working. He said specifically the pilots should have had some sort of display or visual indicator saying that the other engine, the right engine had a problem. So they are looking into that.

He stopped short of saying that the pilots made an outright mistake. They are using very delicate language, they are looking into this carefully. Of course, they cannot rule out that there was something mechanical involved. They are looking at all factors at this point.

Christi -- I should mention investigators are saying the big priority for the next day or two will also to get eyes on the wreckage. It's in a warehouse, secure warehouse. Investigators wanting to take a close look at what's left of the engines and see if that can shed an light at all on what went wrong -- Christi.

PAUL: Absolutely, all right. David Molko from Taipei, we appreciate it. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. Coming up on the top of the hour. Quick break -- we'll be right back.

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BLACKWELL: Here's a look at stories developing now.

PAUL: Yes. Rosie O'Donnell quitting ABC's "The View". She was just there after only five months. She divorced last year, her wife, and says that her personal life has been too stressful and she wants to spend more time with her kids.

BLACKWELL: If you filed your taxes with Turbo Tax, listen up. The popular online tax software has temporarily stopped processing state tax refunds after reports of increased fraud. The company that fears that criminals are stealing people's identities from somewhere else and then using it to file state returns on Turbo Tax. Intuit Company that owns Turbo Tax says it has not been breached but an investigation is ongoing.

PAUL: Have you heard about the commuter who walked 21 miles just to get to his factory job? This was in Detroit. He got a brand new car and over $300,000. After James Robertsons' journey made headlines, a sympathetic college student set up a Go Fund account -- Go Fund Me. Congratulations to them.

BLACKWELL: Thanks for watching this morning.

"SMERCONISH" starts right now.