Return to Transcripts main page

New Day Saturday

Investigation of Boris Nemtsov Assassination; Iraqi forces regaining outskirts of Tikrit; One Yeah Anniversary of Flight 370 Disappearance; Two Arrests In Boris Nemtsov Murder; Dozens Protest Shooting Of Madison Teen; Two Police Officers Resign Over Racist Emails; Will Hillary Clinton Talk About Emails?

Aired March 07, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with breaking news, two suspects have been arrested in connection to last week's murder of opposition politician, Boris Nemtsov. Thank you so much for entrusting your morning to us. We appreciate your company. I am Christie Paul.

JOE JOHNS, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: And I am Joe Johns in for Victor Blackwell this morning.

PAUL: It's so good to have you, Joe.

JOHNS: Good to be back.

PAUL: So let's get off with this breaking news here. First of all, one week after a vocal critic of the kremlin was gunned down in the heart of Moscow. Russian state media reporting two suspects are now under arrest.

JOHNS: Russian opposition leader, Boris Nemtsov, was shot to death just steps from the kremlin as he was walking over a bridge with his girlfriend after having dinner.

PAUL: We want to get right to CNN senior international correspondent, Matthew Chance joining us by phone from Moscow. Matthew, thank you. What have you learned this morning?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, there's been an announcement this morning, Christi, on state television. The head of the SFB, which is the successor organization to the KGB, so the head of the Russian Security Services appearing on Russian state television announcing the two suspects have been detained over the murder of the Russian opposition politician, Boris Nemtsov.

There's been enormous pressure, of course, on the authorities to get to the bottom of this killing and to make some arrests. Vladimir Putin, the Russian president has spoken and condemning the killing even though the opposition figure say he's ultimately responsible for the killing of a man, who was ultimately and extremely fierce critic of the Kremlin. But President Putin saying the murder was shameful and that these kinds of political killings in Russia should come to an end and so enormous pressure on the authorities to make some process.

Today that apparent progress has been announced, two people have been named as (inaudible) Gorvachev (ph) and (inaudible), people from the north caucuses region of Russia.

Apparently according to Russian media the Russian investigators had found the getaway car, which the gunman and his accomplices used to get away from the crime scene after the shooting took place on Friday night. It was forensic evidence that they found inside that car that has led them to make these two arrests.

PAUL: How far is this caucus region that you were talking from the site where Nemtsov was killed?

CHANCE: It was at the other site. It was a long, long way from the area itself. The north caucus in Chechnya is perhaps the most well- known republic in the north caucuses is an extremely volatile area. There have been two extremely bloody conflicts there involving Russian forces and Islamist rebels fighting for a separate state in Chechnya.

That rebel movement has spread across the north caucuses region and there's an ongoing insurgency there and it's obviously very volatile. I think we should stress that just because these people were from the north caucuses don't necessarily mean that the motive for the killing of Boris Nemtsov was linked with Chechnya.

It's become a lawless place. There are hired guns from Chechnya that often do the dirty work of organized criminals and others. So it's possible that these people were simply selected by whoever ordered this killing because they were not anything to do with what Boris Nemtsov stood for or his opposition activities.

And so I think at this point, we should hold off judgment on whether it was a link directly beyond the killers to the north caucuses or not.

PAUL: I understand that. OK, Matthew Chance, thank you so much for making that clear for us. Appreciate it. Matthew Chance there live for us in Moscow.

JOHNS: Now, CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes, joining us this morning. Tom, what do you think of this situation? We hear Chechnya. We hear the killing of Nemtsov, are we to believe that this has something to do with the rebels or extremists or should we be a little skeptical about the picture that's being painted for us?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning, Joe and Christi. Well, we should be skeptical of, you know, what comes out of the authorities at a time like this. I think Putin made statements very early that he suspected it could be extreme Islam groups.

It could be ISIS. It could be, you know, anybody but him or anybody but the authorities so we don't know. But as Matthew Chance just said and he is exactly correct, murder for hire in Russia is no problem. They have many, many assassins for hire.

And so who -- the question is it's one thing to identify shooters. It's another thing to identify who hired them to do the shooting. That's what will remain to be seen if we ever see it.

JOHNS: Do you expect we'll see more people arrested, more people questioned? Certainly we have already started with two people so that would suggest a conspiracy in of itself.

FUENTES: It would and we may see more depending on, you know, what information they provided if they even know who hired them. They could have been hired. They could have given the target. You know, done surveillance work on the target and then killed Nemtsov. So we don't know. We have to wait and see. We're at the mercy of the Russians in this case of who they want to pin this on.

JOHNS: And there is also the question of propaganda because people who were arrested from Chechnya would take the focus off of Putin?

FUENTES: Well, absolutely. But you know, in fairness to Putin, if that's even, you know, if we want to do that. Nemtsov didn't really pose a great threat to him, the movement that Nemtsov was involved in -- it was high fractured and a lot of fighting within the groups.

He is at an all-time high with 86 percent approval rating and we know that's probably somewhat fictitious. It's not fictitious that many, many Russians want a strong man leader like him, like the fact that he took the Crimea back and unlawful or not.

Do not object to Russia trying to establish a little more of a cushion of land by taking Eastern Ukraine and backing the Russian rebels from the Ukraine as well as, you know, sending their own troops across the border to help.

So the fact that Nemtsov was about to release reports that the Russians are heavily involved in the attacks in Ukraine, I think would have highly offensive and probably would have enhanced Putin's popularity because I don't think the people object to that.

The sanctions imposed by the United States and the western countries on Russia, which has had a lot of damage to their economy along with falling oil prices. They just blame that on the west. They blame it on the U.S. and that's typical of many countries.

JOHNS: Tom Fuentes, thanks so much. We think of you as former FBI, but a little bit of intelligence analysis there. Appreciate it so much.

FUENTES: Thank you, Joe.

JOHNS: Now to another breaking story that we're following, protesters up in Madison, Wisconsin after a deadly police shooting of an African- American teen. This is the scene overnight, people protesting in the streets and shouting, "Black Lives Matter." They also demonstrated near a government building after a police officer shot and killed a 19-year- old African-American teen.

PAUL: Police say the officer was responding to calls that a man was jumping in and out of traffic when this incident began. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF MICHAEL KOVAL, MADISON POLICE: Once inside the home, the subject involved in this incident, the same one that had been allegedly out in traffic and had battered someone, the same suspect then assaulted my officer and in the context of mutual combat in that sense. The officer did draw the revolver and subsequently shot the subject.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Now the division of criminal investigation has already been brought in to investigate the incident. I want to bring in CNN affiliate, WKOW's Kristen Barbaresi. She is on the phone with us from Madison. Kristen, I understand that you arrived on the scene soon after the shooting. Explain -- kind of take us in there and explain to us what you saw?

KRISTEN BARBARESI, WKOW REPORTER (via telephone): Well, when we got to the scene there were upwards of 20 squad cars on site. So we knew something big had happened. News begin trickling out that it was an officer involved shooting.

One of our state representatives was actually across the street when it happened and heard the shots fired. She came over to the media and began telling us that this was an officer involved.

We then began having members of one of our local activist groups coming down and demanding answers and the protesters slowly began to gather and information began to come out.

PAUL: I understand you spoke to another witness as well?

BARBARESI: We actually briefly saw some of the witnesses, but they were quickly taken to be questioned by officers. We were not able to speak to any witnesses other than that state representative, who heard those shots fired. She did see that it was officer involved. She, to my knowledge, did not actually see the teen that was shot.

PAUL: So we're looking at pictures of these protests. Where they, for the most part, peaceful?

BARBARESI: They were. They were incredibly peaceful. They were loud. They were here, but they remained calm. They actually at one point did march to our city hall, which is where the police department is located briefly staged to fit in again peaceful. They did clear out of that area. I'm actually on the scene right now. There aren't any protesters down here currently.

PAUL: All right, Kristen Barbaresi, we appreciate the update. Thank you so much. Obviously, this is something that we're going to be following all throughout the morning and Joe really this is coming as we're seeing more fall out in Ferguson over the Justice Department scathing report.

And new overnight in that regard CNN talked to the mayor of Ferguson and asked him, now that two officers resigned and a clerk was fired over the racist e-mails, is the police chief next?

JOHNS: We really don't know what's going on in Wisconsin.

PAUL: We don't.

JOHNS: But it's just fascinating that we're in the situation right now where we have convergence of stories.

Also we could finally hear from Hillary Clinton. Her first public comments since this private e-mail controversy spiraled out of control. What does she need to say?

PAUL: It's also been one year since Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 vanished. No traces yet. Families are still struggling as you can imagine. We're talking to one widower, who does not believe this was an accident.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: It's 14 minutes past the hour. We're so glad to have you with us. New this morning, the mayor of Ferguson, Missouri speaking to CNN since the latest fall out over the Justice Department's scathing report that found widespread systematic discrimination by Ferguson police against African-Americans.

Now two police officers have resigned. The city's top clerk has been fired over the racist emails that were detailed as part of this report released this week.

Some critics are now even calling for the entire police department to be disbanded and the chief himself to resign. Well, CNN's Sara Sidner talked to Ferguson mayor, James Knowles and asked if that should happen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If it's found, those DOJ notes that were put up, those e-mails are coming from your city manager and your police chief back and forth, why are they still here? Why are they allowed to still be here?

MAYOR JAMES KNOWLES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: Well, it's very important to recognize that, you know, everybody has -- deserves due process. What we see here right now is there's a finding from the Department of Justice. A finding which they say is a mist of probable cause to believe these things. And so we're going to do our due diligence and hold people accountable as necessary and you know, people who have engaged in practices and that is, you know, against the policies of the city government, of the elected officials and therefore, the will of the people, we absolutely will take all appropriate action necessary.

But you know, right now we're not going to speculate on what that is. As we go through this report, we have and will make the necessary changes. We have and immediately dealt with the three individuals who are engaged with the racist and bias e-mails.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about that.

KNOWLES: All three of those individuals no longer work for the city of Ferguson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: OK, so now let's bring back CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes. Tom, according to those e-mails between Ferguson's police chief and the city manager, there was this focus on placing fines on citizens in order to boost the city's budget.

I mean, if you look on this on one hand, it sounds like a predatory government, on the other hand, a lot of people would say that's happened all the time and that's the way government's raise money. How common is this practice and if it finds the way into the DOJ report on the general practices of the government?

FUENTES: Joe, I don't think it's that common and yesterday Eric Holder, the attorney general, talking to the press said he didn't think Ferguson was typical and the practices were typical of law enforcement or villages and cities around the country.

He did mention several times that in this country there are 18,000 police agencies. That's the way our government is set up. That's what the founding fathers wanted that police be under very local control and every little town has their own police department.

It makes it very difficult for them to get training and be able to afford mass training and, you know, when cities or little villages have budget short falls. That is one way to put pressure on it, but it's still not typical across the board. I don't think.

JOHNS: Do you think we are at a stage of termination here or are we still at the investigatory stage? You know, the Justice Department says they're focusing more on revenue than public safety. But I think what we need to find out is what they're going to do about it perhaps.

FUENTES: Well, I think that from the government standpoint, they are waiting to see -- they have given the report to Ferguson and the leadership in Ferguson and said OK, you know, what is your plan to fix it? And so far, you know, they appear to be dragging their feet.

You know, the old adage especially in the Navy that the captain of the ship it may not be his fault if something bad happens, but it is his responsibility. And you know, the city fathers, the mayor, the city manager, the chief of police are the leadership in that community.

It's hard to believe that they will have sufficient credibility going forward to rebuild or even build in the first place any kind of a descent relationship with the community and establish the type of relationship that they need to have.

JOHNS: Absolutely true. Credibility is a huge question here. Thanks for putting a spotlight on all of that, Tom.

PAUL: Well, President Obama is going to be among the thousands of people gathering in Selma, Alabama today to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. Yes, it was 50 years ago today that Alabama state troopers attacked, clubbed and tear gassed marchers on the Edmond Tennis Bridge as they march for voting rights.

Now that man you see on the ground is Georgia congressman now, John Lewis. I want to show you a new bird's eye view of Edmond Tennis Bridge captured in this exclusive CNN drone video. It stands as a testament to a reminder of the -- you know, the courageous people of all races we should point out who braved the civil rights struggle.

JOHNS: They're talking about actually changing the name of the --

PAUL: They are, to John Lewis Bridge possibly.

JOHNS: As President Obama and others gather in Selma, we will be live in our next hour and throughout the day to mark this historic anniversary.

PAUL: And a year later, it still sounds impossible, Flight MH-370 disappears and no trace, March 8th 2014 was the day and creating a greatest aviation mystery to this day, but you're going to hear what Malaysia's transport minister says about finding the missing plane at this point.

JOHNS: A grieving husband is joining us to tell us what he's been going through and how the Malaysian government has treated him so far.

But first, will we finally hear from Hillary Clinton about her emails and why all eyes are on Miami and her next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: It's 24 minutes past the hour right now. Let's look ahead together to tonight because Hillary Clinton is expected to speak at the Clinton Global Initiative University Conference in Miami and what everyone wants to know is this.

Will she talk about the growing controversy over her using a private e-mail account when she was secretary of state? Now the White House and the State Department are getting hammered with questions about why she used her private e-mail and a home server to conduct some business. CNN's Erin McPike details what's going on here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Spokeswoman Marie Harf in a contentious briefing facing questions about how the State Department will review Hillary Clinton's 55,000 pages of e-mails.

MARIE HARF, SPOKESWOMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: She has asked us to look at all 55,000 pages and determine what is appropriate for release. So that process is going happen.

MCPIKE: After a controversy erupted over the exclusive use of the private e-mail as secretary of state, she took the Twitter on Wednesday saying, quote, "I want to public to see my e-mail."

Department officials are now reviewing the tens of thousands of e- mails she has turned over to make sure no sensitive information is made public not whether she did anything wrong.

They warned it could take months to go through the documents. She used a personal account, clintonemail.com ran on her own server exclusively never conducting business from a government issued address leading to suggestions that she had something to hide.

RONALD BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Whether we're going to get to the end of the line here and conclude that there was a rule that they broke, I am dubious. I am more dubious that it's going to be a big factor one way or the other in her presidential campaign.

MCPIKE: As she moves closer to an assumed presidential run, the GOP is piling on pointing to negative headlines across the country and deleting Republican contender, Jeb Bush, who as governor of Florida did use private e-mail at times connected to his own server weighed in on Radio Iowa.

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: For security purposes you need to be behind a firewall that has recognizes the world for what it is. It's a dangerous world and security would mean that you could not have a private server. It's a little baffling that did not come up in Secretary Clinton's thought process.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: And joining us live from Washington, so Erin, you know, we just heard there obviously from Jeb Bush. What about Democrats? What are they saying about this whole thing now?

MCPIKE: Well, Christie, for one thing, Clinton adviser stressed she did not appear to violate any rules and Foreign Service officers and State Department lawyers did not encourage here to stick to a state.gov e-mail account during her time on the job.

So there are Democrats who were dubious that it will make a difference in the upcoming election like New York Senator Chuck Schumer, and here is what he said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: Hillary Clinton, do you think that she should be more engaged in the e-mails?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I don't know. I think Hillary is great. She says that is she wants the e-mails out. What do Americans care about? Good paying jobs, a good country, and a good family, all of that stuff is not going to matter. It's a lot of spinning right now.

MCPIKE: You don't think that it's going to hurt the prospects?

SCHUMER: I don't think it's going to hurt the protects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: Now others are being a little snarky saying they have much more important things to do, but by and large, Hillary Clinton's Democratic supporters who, of course, do worry about a lot when it comes to her political future, seemed to be more concerned about how long it's taking her to jump into the race so that she can push back forcefully when she gets attacked like this -- Christie.

PAUL: All right, Eric McPike, we appreciate it this morning. Thank you.

JOHNS: It's been so long since we started talking about that plane that vanished without a trace. One year later, there are no signs of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. The head of the airlines says the search is going continue, but how long is it going to last?

And we're following the breaking news out of Russia, the arrests of two men in the murder of an opposition leader. We will have more on that coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: Going back to our breaking news in the assassination of Boris Nemtsov. Russian state media is reporting that two suspects have been arrested in the assassination of the opposition leader Nemtsov. One of President Vladimir Putin's outspoken critics was gunned down with a pistol across from the Kremlin last Friday. Joining us live on the phone is Natalia Antonova from "The Moscow Times." What is the latest there, Natalia?

NATALIA ANTONOVA, "MOSCOW TIMES": Well, we have two suspects that are in custody. They have Chechen-sounding names as the head of the Russian Security Services told us, and they -- all they have said so far is that there are from the North Caucus. I mean that's all that we know.

JOHNS: No indication of any evidence against them or any motive they might have had for doing this?

ANTONOVA: Well, you know what? Right when this happened, Russia's Investigative Committee said that they were pursuing a theory that it was the Ukrainian security services who were using Chechen hired killers to do away with Boris Nemtsov as a way to like destabilize the political situation in Russia. But so far, the fact that there are two men with Chechen names that have been arrested, it does sound like that it's lining up with their theory. Which seems a little bit convenient for Russia, but, you know, we will see how it develops, of course.

JOHNS: Right. That's what I wanted to ask. So, this theory circulates almost immediately that it's an attempt to destabilize the government of Yeltsin, but my question for you is how much skepticism are we seeing there about that kind of a cover story?

ANTONOVA: Well, you know even with people who are pro-Kremlin, and I would say that the majority of the Russian public is very much behind the Kremlin and behind President Putin right now. He has incredibly high approval ratings, like around 85 percent. The majority still does not have a lot of trust in law enforcement and the security services. So, is there going to be skepticism? I would say that yes? Is the skepticism going to change anything, though, that remains to be seen.

JOHNS: Right. And no reaction at all from the Putin government and nothing being said on that end?

ANTONOVA: Well, so far I have not seen any reaction. I am sure there will be once they lay out their case. The thing is, he was killed in a very - in a heavily policed, heavily surveilled area, so they will probably use surveillance tapes from the area to tie the two people to the crime.

JOHNS: So what is the next step in this -- typically here in the United States we would see presentment of charges, pleading of innocent or guilty, what happens next?

ANTONOVA: Well, it's the same thing in Russian law, you know. They would present their case. They will, you know, they will make the charges. Of course, you have to understand when it comes to like the Russian court system, once somebody is charged, you know, like there's a very, you know, a very strong case that will go to court. You know, because the Russian courts have been very skewed (ph) towards, you know, guilty verdicts and so on. So, you know, that whole process, it will take place in Russia. It will be very similar to the state. Whether or not it will be genuine once again, we don't know right now.

JOHNS: What's the timeline? Any sense of a timeline before we'll see these people?

ANTONOVA: It depends. It depends on whether or not they confess. It depends on how it's going to be handled, you know, whether or not they are on the lookout for more suspects right now. I would say that the next few days will probably determine how this case is going to go for the next few months. That's my - that's my estimate.

JOHNS: Natalia Antonova, thanks so much. I am sure you will be covering that very closely. And we will be watching too.

ANTONOVA: Thank you. PAUL: You know, we may learn more about Malaysia flight 370 tonight.

Because that's when the Malaysia government is expected to release an interim report, detailing the findings of this year-long investigation. This, of course, coming when tomorrow is marking the one year anniversary since the plane and all 239 people on board vanished. The Boeing 777 was in route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur and never obviously, reached its destination. Despite efforts by search crews, not a single piece of wreckage has been found, which just adds to the intrigue here. I want to show you the scene yesterday in Kuala Lumpur, though. Families of the victims holding a candle light vigil. Can you imagine what it's been like to them? CNN's Anna Coren is live for us this morning from Kuala Lumpur. Anna, is there any early indication at all about what is in this report and what we may learn?

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, Christie, everyone is remaining very tight lip, this is what this in this interim report. We are expecting it to be some 600 pages. It's going to be released at 3:00 p.m. local time on Sunday, tomorrow, which is the one year anniversary since MH-370 disappeared with 239 people on board. Now, this report, it has been compiled by an independent body made up of seven accidents and investigation organizations, coming from Australia, the United States, the U.K., China, Singapore, France. Obviously, they're involved because of Air France Flight 447 that crashed back in 2009. As well as Boeing, Inmarsat and Rolls Royce.

So, this is an independent investigation, it meant to be a technical investigation. The families getting access to it some three hours before it's publicly released. Some of those families expressing their anger that they're doing this on the day of the one year anniversary, saying it is completely insensitive that they could have perhaps delayed it somewhat. You know, Christi, these families are going through torture. It has been torture for the last 12 months. No information, no clues. Nothing as to what happened to their loved ones a year ago.

PAUL: You know, the transportation minister, Anna, said something. This is very curious. He says that he believes the plane will be found by May. Why that timeline? Do you have any idea what makes him so confident?

COREN: Yeah, it's a - look, there's a search taking place in the southern Indian Ocean about a 1000 nautical miles off the coast of Western Australia. They're focusing on this priority search areas. It's about 20,000 square kilometers. I mean it's obviously, still a huge expanse of water, but at the same time the initial search area was half the size of the United States. So, they have narrowed it down, they have completed more than 40 percent of it, and they're hoping to complete the entire area by May. They're saying that if the plane is there, if the debris is there, they will find it. Because they are literally, you know, scouring it with these full vessels, using sonar equipment, looking on every and each of the ocean floor. The terrain down there, it is horrendous. You know, we are talking about underwater mountains, volcanoes, trenches and 4,000 meters, deep. So really, you know, they're struggling to map it properly because of the terrain, and then above the water they're dealing with horrendous weather conditions. They have encountered three cyclones, you know, waves of up to 50 feet. It really is quite extraordinary. But as they say, if the plane is in that search zone, it will be found. The families, however, Christi, are extremely concerned that if nothing is found that the search will be called off.

PAUL: Yeah, you can understand that. Anna Coren, thank you so much for the update.

JOHNS: Now to the fight against ISIS. Iraqi troops recaptured a town on the southern outskirts of Tikrit. Could this be a key toward pushing ISIS out of the region?

And former vice president Walter Mondale is in the hospital. Latest on his condition coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: We'll let you know there has been gunfire overnight in a bar in Mali, and this is a bar that's very popular, apparently, with ex- patriots, and people have died.

JOHNS: Right. It happened in the country's capital Bamako. Now, five people are dead. That it includes a French citizen, we are told, a Belgian and three Malians. At least eight people were injured. France's president condemned the shooting and the French embassy in Mali is warning its citizens to be on the alert.

Now, to the fight against ISIS. Iraqi troops supported by Shia militia, recapture a town Friday on the southern outskirts of Tikrit. This victory in Ad-Dawr is seen as a key step toward pushing ISIS out of Tikrit. Now, let's bring in Ben Wedeman who is live in Baghdad. Ben, what is it like out there right now?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it does appear that Iraqi forces and the various associated militias were fighting with them are gaining ground from ISIS around Tikrit. Yesterday, of course, as you mentioned, they took the town of Ad-Dawr. We were up there the other day in an area to the northeast of Tikrit. Where, according to officers we spoke with, they have taken at least 200 square kilometers as well. What we're seeing, really, is that unlike last summer when the Iraqi army did attempt to retake Tikrit, there was a catastrophe, this time they're going about it in a much more deliberate slow manner, trying to make sure that whatever gains they make are actually gains they can keep. And this change is attributed here on the ground to Iranian commanders who are on the ground essentially guiding this operation. The Iranians have over 100 advisers in this country. Yesterday we received a video handout from one of the biggest Shia malicious participating in this operation, and it included a clip of several Iranian advisers huddled around a map near the frontlines, so the difference this time as opposed to last year, is that they seem to be getting some expert advice in this operation. Joe?

JOHNS: Let's talk just a little bit about that. A lot of people in this domestic audience don't understand the significance of the Iranians lending assistance to the Iraqis. Could you talk about that and tell us how the locals are accepting their help?

WEDEMAN: Well, it depends here on who you speak with about, whether they like this help or not. For many in this Shia community here who comprised a majority of the population, they're in favor of it. Because they realize that the Iranians can provide this sort of on the ground assistance that is making a difference in the operation. When you talk to people here, when they refer to the America and the U.S.- led coalition against ISIS, there are often complaints that the airstrikes are not enough, aren't frequent enough, that the Americans have not, for instance, provided enough weaponry, although much of the weaponry you see at the frontline is, in fact, American, especially the heavy tanks and what not.

As far as the Iranian role goes, yes, Iran has had growing influence in Iraq since the United States have toppled the regime of Saddam Hussein. The Iranians, obviously, are very interested in their next door neighbor, but what we have seen since ISIS started taking cities like Mosul and Tikrit last summer is the Iranians very alarmed about the spread of ISIS and came in to bolster the government. They, for instance, provided assistance in making sure that the defenses of Baghdad were strengthened as ISIS was sort of probing the perimeter of the city.

So, Iran has a definite strategic interest in this country that goes back many years. Keep in mind that many of the leaders of the Shia militias grew up in Iran. They were trained in Iran. Some of these militias had their start in Iran. So, Iran is going to be playing a large role in Iraq for many years to come. Joe.

JOHNS: Ben Wedeman in Baghdad, thanks so much for that. Be safe.

PAUL: Thank you, Ben. Now, listen. There are more aspects of ISIS that we need to analyze. So, after a short break we're talking to Retired General Mark Hertling and one of the big questions besides more about ISIS helping or Iran rather helping in this case in Iraq. The big question, is the fight against ISIS winnable?

JOHNS: And after that we will have the protest in the streets of Madison, Wisconsin after police officer shot and killed a 19-year old African American teenager. That story coming up at the top of the hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UF: What do we want?

CROWD: Justice!

UF: Why do we want it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: So just before the break we talked about how Iraqi forces with the help of Iran have taken over a key town in Tikrit. To get an understanding of how important that victory is, we want to bring in CNN military analyst, Retired General Mark Hertling. General, thanks for being with us. We want to start with that area. Why is Ad-Dawr and Tikrit so important?

GENERAL MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Several reasons, Christi, and first of all, good morning. Ad-Dawr is the birth place of one of the individuals that forces were not able to capture during the Iraq war, and that's Izzat al-Duri (ph) who was the number two guy on the deck of cards right below Saddam Hussein. What is critical about that, is this town is symbolic, it is his birth place, but it's also the lead in to the city of Tikrit. Tikrit is a sprawling city. It has probably about 300,000 or 400,000 citizens, and it spreads from the north to the south along the Tigers River. Critically important, center of power of the Saladin province, which was one of the provinces that Mr. Hussein had under his control.

PAUL: Do you see Iranians looking at this in some way as an opportunity for them? And how comfortable are you with the fact that Iranians are a part of this right now?

HERTLING: Well, the Shia forces, the combination of the Iranian Quds force under General Suleimani and also the Shia militias out of Baghdad, the Bard corps that you saw that - the yellow flag flying above one of the tanks. That's the symbol of the Badr corps, which is a very large Shia militia. Make up about two thirds, those two forces make up about two thirds of the forces that are fighting in Tikrit. The other third are the Sunni tribal members. I do not personally, Christi, put a lot of stock behind all of this. What I am going to be watching very closely is what happens after the fight. Are there extra-judicial killings? Are there the capture of a lot of Sunni -- what we call military age males between 18 and 24 and are they put in prison without any trials. Is there a turnover back to the Saladin and Tikrit province police force, the security for the region? If the Shia forces continue to try and control the area, then it's going to be problematic. If they turn it back over, that's a very good thing.

So, I am not putting a whole lot of stock because Iraq does not have any choice, but to ask for help from their neighbors, the Iranians.

PAUL: General, I only have a couple of seconds left, but I want to ask you. You said in a previous interview, we cannot kill our way out of this war. And I thought why not? I mean long term I understand that, because we have this media presence and the recruitment. But why can't we in the short term kill ourselves enough out of this war to manage it?

HERTLING: Criticality is government's, Christi. And as the enemy is defeated, something has to take its place. So, you are going to get the same thing you had under Mr. Maliki where the Sunni tribes, which make up a large part of the population in the north and the Kurdish region are going to continue to rebel against the Baghdad government. Unless there's an inclusiveness and an ability to pull all people in Iraq together, this will never work. So, you can kill as many as you want, but there will be more - there will be more springing up of different groups. Today, we're calling it ISIS or DAESH, in the past we called it al Qaeda. There could be something in the future, which will certainly take its place unless government takes over and takes the majority of the population back to a security agreement and understanding that day-to-day life of running businesses and sending kids to school is the most important thing.

PAUL: All right. Well, always insightful. Thank you so much, General Mark Hertling. Glad to have you here.

HERTLING: Thank you, Christi.

PAUL: Sure, we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)