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New Day Saturday

Monster Cyclone Hits Vanuatu; Manhunt for Cop Shooter in Ferguson; New Video of British Teen Runaways; Major Doubts on Drunk Crash Claims; Cops Under Fire in the Line of Duty; Sigma Alpha Epsilon's Lawyer Not Ruling Out Suing University of Oklahoma; Floyd Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao

Aired March 14, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: So much news that we still have to tell you about this morning.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So let's start the next hour of NEW DAY right now.

PAUL: The destruction, unbelievable. Relief workers trying to access the damage as deadly tropical cyclone Pam pounds Vanuatu with hours of fierce winds and torrential rain.

BLACKWELL: A city on edge as the manhunt in Ferguson continues. Police are looking for the person or persons who shot two officers during a protest. Why investigators now say the cops may not have been targeted. They're at least opening the door to that possibility.

PAUL: And did the Secret Service try to cover up a drunk driving case involving two of its agents? Well, the agency's new chief is being called on the carpet on Capitol Hill.

BLACKWELL: Good morning, good to be with you. I'm Victor Blackwell.

PAUL: Always glad to have you with us. I'm Christi Paul, and we want to get right to some of this devastation that we're seeing this morning.

A South Pacific paradise on earth as it's been called, look at it now.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

PAUL: A disaster zone.

BLACKWELL: And one of the most powerful storms ever to make landfall has killed at least six people, maybe more. This is the island nation of Vanuatu.

Tropical Storm Pam barreled the shore Friday with winds gusting upwards of 200 miles an hour. And that's as strong as a category five hurricane.

PAUL: Now it's feared entire villages are wiped out here. One emergency official says all she could think about were people clinging to cocoanut trees for their lives. BLACKWELL: Ivan Cabrera is tracking this killer storm for us.

Ivan, the storm has now moved off from Vanuatu. Anybody else in the path?

IVAN CABRERA, AMS METEOROLOGIST: New Zealand is going to be in the path of this, but they're not going to get the brunt of the storm, as they're going to be weakening significantly.

We'll go to the forecast track in a second but I just want to orient you so you could see what we're talking about here. Here's Australia and when we talk about Vanuatu, it is this island chain right here, these tiny little islands that are very vulnerable to these tropical cyclones here. Some areas can withstand them a little bit better than others but when you talk about a cyclone that has reached intensity equivalent to a category five hurricane in the Atlantic basin we're talking about significant damage here.

And as we have been saying some of the description across some of the islands and just the initial look at it has been devastating here.

Vila is -- took a direct hit and that is the capital city of one of the island here across the island chains. So look at the winds right now. 155 miles an hour, still this thing is holding together. But the good news is, as you can see, the islands now, this is beginning to move away and pushing off to the south and east and it will continue to weaken as it heads further south and these, the dangerous winds have now cleared the islands.

So at this point here we are much in better shape than certainly where we were 24 hours ago. Look at these maximum sustained winds, you don't see this every day. 165-mile-an-hour winds. The gusts were at 200. This is as it was making landfall here. So we're talking the equivalent of a Hurricane Andrew back in '92 across Florida and Katrina as it peaked over the Gulf of Mexico.

Equivalent to cat five, it continues heading off to the south and east, moving away, so that is certainly excellent news. Now there is New Zealand to the south so I think there will be some impacts here. But by the time it arrives across the north island of New Zealand, where we're just going to be talking about some heavy rain and some gusty wind but it is not going to be destructive storm by any means for our friends that are down in New Zealand.

There is a lot of open water, a lot of real estate here for this system to weaken. And it's not going to be bothering anyone any time soon. But the damage has been done and it has right now looked to be catastrophic across most of the islands of Vanuatu -- guys.

BLACKWELL: Wow, we'll get more details on that. The destruction throughout the morning.

Ivan, thank you so much.

Now we've got Bill Weir. He's going to joins us coming up at 10:00 Eastern. He got a firsthand look at Vanuatu before the killer cyclone struck. You know, he hosts the "WONDER LIST" which airs Sunday night at 10:00 here on CNN.

PAUL: But aide workers in Vanuatu say they have some serious fears about the death toll and how much higher it could rise at this point.

Charlie Damon in fact is with Care International in Vanuatu's capital port Vila. Here's what she's saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE DAMON, PROGRAM MANAGER, CARE INTERNATIONAL, VANUATU: Port Vila looks like an absolute bomb has hit it. It is devastating. I've just been through driving around where you can drive through because there are a lot of roads that are blocked off. Trees have just fallen across the road here. (INAUDIBLE) and across and piled so high on some places you can barely see over the top.

The water is incredibly rough. There are some villages that have just been absolutely decimated. There are local huts which are made of native shrubs and walls as well. They've just been absolutely blown away. And with the winds last night it really did sound like an ocean. That's how strong the wind was.

It's pretty much drowning out the rain. The sound of the winds. The shutters were just hammering down on the windows. And then like I said these were some of the most secure solid structures in Port Vila, and during that time all I can think of was that if you were not in a solid structure last night, it would have been a very, very tough time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: All right. And thanks so much to all the aid workers there who are obviously working very hard but also giving us a good sense of what is happening there.

We have some new video of the teens the British authorities believe ran away to join ISIS. Why there is fear growing that they could be with terrorists in Syria right now?

BLACKWELL: And is the Secret Service covering up for its own agents? Well, the agency's new chief has some big important questions to answer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: An intense manhunt is underway in Ferguson at this hour for the gunman who shot two police officers. Police are considering increasing the current $10,000 reward. It's been more than two days now since those officers were wounded at a protest outside the Ferguson Police Department.

Now investigators say they have several leads, yes, but no major break just yet. They also seem to be unsure on two facts in this case. And again, it's only been two days, but an important two days. The fact -- they're trying to figure out now whether the attack was targeted and if the shooter had any connections to the demonstrations. Let's bring in CNN's Ryan Young, he's live in Ferguson.

Those will come out as this investigation continues of course. The focus now is getting the person or persons responsible, Ryan.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor, you said it absolutely right there. Of course everyone here is focused on finding whoever fired the shots, two of those two officers, one hitting that officer in the shoulder then going through his back, the other officer getting shot up in the face and having that bone lodged behind the ear.

You know, all of law enforcement is talking about this. Hopefully that $10,000 reward helps to push people forward. An effort for police to catch whoever fired those shots. Now of course there's a hill that's near here, and they believe that maybe 125 away those officers were fired at. Now protesters have also been talking about this. We've seen a de-escalation in terms of what's going on in the front of this building.

But you know what? The police chief here was backing off some of the comments he made early on about this investigation.

BLACKWELL: Is the St. Louis County police chief specifically pivoting on the element of their being ambushed or targeted? Because there seems to be a bit of a discrepancy between Thursday night's news conference and last night's news conference.

YOUNG: Yes, that's actually the sound that we were going to share with you. Now I got to tell you, he has moved from that just a little bit. Look, obviously, there was a lot of confusion involved in this. We've all seen that video, that's some scary video when you hear the shots going by and you hear someone screaming, maybe someone who was shot, maybe someone who wasn't shot, who was yelling out in pain.

But look, at this point they're not sure about the ambush factor, but the active investigation in terms of finding those people is still ongoing. Of course, in those first two days we saw them use the SWAT team to go inside a house, detain three people. All those people were released but you have to know that maybe they're building some more suspects with the help of the community.

BLACKWELL: All right. Ryan Young for us reporting in Ferguson this morning.

Ryan, thank you so much.

Let's turn overseas now. We've got new video, important video. Three runaway British teenagers suspected of joining ISIS.

Take a look here. We've got the footage purportedly recorded last month that shows the girls as they prepare to cross the Turkish border into Syria. Now two of the girls are wearing -- you see one of them there with a fur lined hood, another is in a hijab. The teenagers are seen with their luggage talking to a man who says put your bags, hurry, don't stop. One of the girls appears to be looking at her phone and then says, he just hung up. We should point out that CNN has not been able to confirm the

authenticity of the video. But all of this is happening as Turkey's Foreign minister says a spy, quote-unquote, "spy," here who helped the girls cross the border has been arrested -- Christi.

PAUL: All right. So let's talk about that with CNN military analyst, Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling who is with us in studio.

We're so glad to have you here.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Christi.

PAUL: Thank you. So first of all, your reaction to that video that we saw of them trying to cross the border.

HERTLING: Well, the Turks have been attempting to close their border and over the last couple of months they've had about 10,000 or more captures with some new border security. But it's still forced. You can't get around the fact that just that 400-mile border between Iraq, Syria and Turkey is extremely porous and there's a lot of criminals that are passing most of these guys that are contributing to this passing are not ISIS driven, they're driven by money. So they're just trying to get people across. They pay money for it and that's how it happens.

PAUL: But knowing the threat, why are they not able to better secure it?

HERTLING: Because it's so long. It would be the same question we have with why can't we secure our southern border or our northern border. And this entire area is almost completely desert region. So most people who are trying to cross don't go to a certain point, a crossing point, where you check passports or do the formal things.

PAUL: Sure.

HERTLING: They just go across the desserts on these mules with mules, as they call them, to bring them across.

PAUL: So let's talk about this man who has been arrested and suspected of helping the girls cross into Syria. Would somebody like that be apt to talk, be influenced to talk? What kind of information might they be able to glean from him?

HERTLING: It depends. If he is a true criminal, he might talk, and just say hey, these guys paid me money, I can lead you to these people who gave me the money to do this. If he's part of the organization, which he also might be, it might be a lot difficult to get -- a lot more difficult to gain information out of him.

PAUL: Because they consider themselves that martyr --

HERTLING: Part of the organization.

PAUL: All right.

HERTLING: So they're just another cog in the wheel.

PAUL: Sure.

HERTLING: Of this organization.

PAUL: Let's turn the page here for a moment and look at Iraq because we know the Iraq forces have been edging towards some victories particularly in Tikrit.

HERTLING: Right.

PAUL: Ramadi seems to be another situation, though. ISIS militants have been pounding some of the troops there. Why is Ramadi so challenging?

HERTLING: Well, first of all, you have almost exclusively Sunni tribes in Anbar Province, the western provinces of Iraq. In the north you have both Shia and Sunnis going through the Diyala Province, out of Baghdad into Tikrit. So there is a combination of forces, both the Shia militia, the Sunni tribes and some Iraqi Security Forces.

They're doing a pretty good job actually of countering ISIS in the West, but it's an oil spot. Every place they go ISIS will go somewhere else. And in fact ISIS is attempting to draw away from Tikrit and the eventual attacks on Mosul by pulling forces, Iraq Security and the militias enter Anbar Providence. And the key to all of this is regaining Mosul.

PAUL: OK. So if they -- let's start with Tikrit, though. If they can regain Tikrit, how do they maintain that?

HERTLING: That's the hard part, Christi. That's the very difficult part and General Dempsey even said this week during testimony that the fight is important. And it's important to get rid of ISIS out of Tikrit, but what happens after that, and we've talked about this before, the turning back over to the -- to the local tribal forces, turning back over to the police and the Iraq Security Forces, and getting good government in place is critically important.

What you'll see next in this area, though, I think, you know, I'll give you a warning as we get into this next week, Tikrit will be cleared and secured, but the next key town that they're -- the Iraqi Security Forces are going to go after is not on the map and it's a small town called Hawija. That's about right there. And it has become the southernmost ISIS headquarters out of Mosul.

So they pushed forces down there. The Kurds are coming from east to west. Iraqi Security Forces going south and north, so they're pushing it further and further away from Baghdad and all of that is territory which the Iraq's must regain.

PAUL: All right. Well, Lt. General Mark Hertling is going to be with us all morning.

Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

HERTLING: Thank you, Christi. OK. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: The Secret Service under fire for allegedly covering up a drunk driving scandal, and now sources say that what we've heard initially might not be the full or accurate story. We'll have more on that.

Also police under fire. Officer involved shooting seems to be on the rise. But we're just noticing them more because of the events in Ferguson. Some are asking, is that the case here?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: We're learning new details about the latest Secret Service scandal.

PAUL: Sources now telling CNN some major details about an alleged drunk driving crash involving two agents may not be completely true.

CNN's Erin McPike live at the White House for us. So not completely true. Is there a smidge of truth?

Erin, what are you hearing this morning?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christi, it may not be the scandal that we are originally thought that it was. As we're getting more details about this incident, it does seem like some of these details may not be true. There wasn't necessarily a crash or collision. And these agents may never have been asked for a sobriety test in the first place.

So let me tell you what we do know from our sources. First these two senior agents on the evening of March 4th drove to the edge of an area where there was an investigation for a bomb threat. And at the first checkpoint the car nudged an orange barrel but there was not a collision, there was no damage, nothing of that sort. Then the car went through two checkpoints and then the agents later went home.

So again, this may not be a huge scandal, something obviously did happen, but the director of the Secret Service agency didn't know until five days later. And that's where the trouble is. And he will be on the Hill on Monday and Tuesday for some private briefings. Also to give some testimony and be questioned in a hearing.

We did talk to Jason Chaffetz yesterday. He is a Republican congressman and he chairs the Government Reform and Oversight Committee, he spoke to CNN yesterday. Here are his concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I have deep concerns about when the Secret Service director became engaged and knew that there was a problem. I think he understood that there was an indent that was happening at the White House, but the idea that two of his officers were -- you know, had some agents that he was suspected of perhaps drinking while there at the White House, that's something that has to be done -- dealt with swiftly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: Now on top of that we also have learned that the Department of Homeland Security will launch an investigation of its own -- Christi.

PAUL: All right. Erin McPike, thank you so much for the update.

BLACKWELL: Joshua Katz joins us now and he's a former CIA operations officer.

Joshua, I want to take that element that you heard from Congressman Chaffetz that the director of the Secret Service, Joseph Clancy, did not know about it for days. That suggests that there is some breakdown in the hierarchy there. There were supposed to be some overhaul. How far into that are we and should it continue?

JOSHUA KATZ, FORMER CIA OPERATIONS OFFICER: So you know, the integrity here of the entire department is at question. And unfortunately the great men and women who serve every day with honor and integrity inside the Secret Service, their organization is under scrutiny, and it should be.

The oversight and reform obviously hasn't gone where it should and so hopefully Congressman Chaffetz and others on the Hill will really push reform now. We need more action and a lot less talk on this issue.

BLACKWELL: So you know the bureaucracy of organizations like the Secret Service, having been CIA operations officers. This overhaul all was enacted a couple of months ago, has Director Clancy had enough time to enact some of these changes or, you know, is he going to be possibly unfairly targeted when he is on the Hill early next week?

KATZ: Well, I think that with the leadership the new director knew what he was getting into. He was a career Secret Service man. So coming in and understanding the culture that he needed to deal with and needed to reform, he already had that. So that learning curve was pretty short. I think that there is a delay here in how they are communicating internally and how they are communicating on the Hill.

You know, when you're Oversight Committees are finding out via the newspaper, that's not good either. So the new director really needs to handle this swiftly. I know that he is passed it up to DHS, the inspector general. They're going to do a review here, but things need to happen, and they need to happen quickly.

BLACKWELL: OK. So let's just count off some of these. We've got the Columbia prostitution scandal, the late night partying, the fence jumpers and now this. Have scandals like this, mistakes, errors like this, have they always been going on in the Secret Service, or is this something new?

KATZ: You know, I have worked with the Secret Service in the field, and they're -- they are honorable people. But there is a culture within the Secret Service that, one, they're above the law and two, that they can do basically whatever it is that they want. And these scandals are the ones that have been made public. There are other issues and until we're ready to really reform the organization, I think the American people are going to question the integrity and the ability of the organization to do what it's supposed to do which is to protect democracy and the president of the United States.

BLACKWELL: Yes, the president of the United States and soon moving into 2016 the next president of the United States and all those candidates.

KATZ: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Joshua Katz, thank you so much.

KATZ: Thank you.

PAUL: Well, the search for suspects is ongoing this morning in the streets of Ferguson. We have some new details on how the police are handling things there.

Also why are so many police officers around the country getting shot in the line of duty? Did you know there is a 50 percent spike? We're going to take a look at what's behind that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Detectives are working around the clock in order to find the shooter who injured two police officers outside the Ferguson Police Department. Now while authorities have several leads, it seems they're no closer to actually finding those responsible. No big breaks.

Here's the latest on the search.

PAUL: Yes, St. Louis County's police chief, Jon Belmar, seems to be stepping back a bit from an earlier assertion that the shooting was an ambush. He also says investigators are not sure whether the shooter had any connections to the demonstrations themselves, and right now police are offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest. But that could grow as public donations are pouring in.

BLACKWELL: But the problem of getting officers -- of protecting officers and getting shot and killed is spreading beyond Ferguson. We've got a number for you. The number of officers shot to death in the line of duty jumped 50 percent in the U.S. last year. It's going from 32 in 2013 to 50 in 2014.

CNN's Shasta Darlington has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A shaking video, shouts and screams. Two officers gun downed. Police calling it an ambush.

CHIEF JOE BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY: You can't see it coming, you don't understand that it's going to happen, you're basically defenseless from the fact that it is happening to you at the time.

DARLINGTON: The shootings a sign police in Ferguson are facing deadly threats after findings of racial bias into the killing of Michael Brown. Federal officials are quick to react.

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: These are the people who protect us, who keep us safe. And they have the right, they have the right to come home at night.

DARLINGTON: But this attack is not an isolated incident. Just Wednesday night a cop shot twice on Long Island, New York, after he pulled a car over for a traffic violation. In December officers Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos shot and killed as they sat in their patrol car. The attack thought to be in retaliation for the death of Eric Garner after being placed in a chokehold by an NYPD officer.

In fact, the number of officers shot to death in the line of duty rose more than 15 percent in 2014 to 50. Fifteen of them killed in ambush style shootings, but the number of police shootings is also on the rise. While official figures are incomplete the non-profit Fatal Encounters says 1,134 people were killed by cops last year. Up 12 percent from 2013.

(On camera): In recent weeks there's been a string of incidents across the country that showed just what these cops are up against and the dangers they face on the job. Right here on this Brooklyn night club there was an armed standoff just this past weekend.

(Voice-over): When it was all over this man caught on video moaning in pain, but it turns out he was shot by the police when he pulled a gun on them.

Another violent incident that feeds tension between police and communities.

BRIAN BURGHART, FOUNDER, FATAL ENCOUNTERS: When it becomes an eye for an eye, people are addressing their problems with violence, the numbers are always going to go up on both sides.

DARLINGTON: A frustrating and deadly cycle of violence.

Shasta Darlington, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: So let's talk about all of this with Rashid Abdul-Salaam. He's a private investigator and a former deputy sheriff.

So glad to have, you know, your voice in this. What do you make of this recent report about the 50 percent rise in officer shootings?

RASHID ABDUL-SALAAM, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, it's not surprising. Generally when you have the civil discourse that's going on involving the citizens and police departments, like previously with the Rodney King situation. There was a huge spike in assaults on police officers. And then -- PAUL: Around the country.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Around the country. And you can see and find this information in the FBI UCR report, Uniform Crime Report that they put out annually. So those -- that data is available. People going on the Web site to see those trends over the years, and then you can see that they are related to the encounters between the police and citizens.

PAUL: How do you restore some sort of calm or, you know, at least some sort of community in places where this is happening. Because as we said, it's just not Ferguson, obviously, it's all across the country.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Well, that's when it's time for the leadership of municipalities and police departments and whatever law enforcement entities that are involved in these incidents. They need to take it upon themselves to initiate town hall meetings. They need to engage the public in these type of forms and to review their own policies and procedures in reference to community involvement.

If there is a community apparatus desk linking the community with the department, a progressive department would see that and consult with other agencies and try to establish that within their communities.

PAUL: Yes.

ABDUL-SALAAM: If they are in fact committed to serving the communities.

PAUL: Because we know that people want to be heard.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Definitely.

PAUL: People want to be heard.

I want to talk about the other stated instances where cops -- and again, you know, to keep everything in perspective, cops have been shooting and killing some unarmed suspects as of late. And I want to give a couple of examples here. Because this is really questions about how they justify the use of deadly force.

Since last Friday alone, we had an officer in Madison, Wisconsin, who shot and killed an unarmed teen that sparked massive, you know, protests across the state. Here in Atlanta just this past weekend an officer shot and killed a naked man who was also unarmed.

Is there any way -- is there any other way I think that people look at this and say, why do you go for the gun first?

ABDUL-SALAAM: Yes.

PAUL: If you don't see somebody who's armed, and obviously the man that had no clothes on, he could tell whether he would be armed or not.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Right.

PAUL: He wasn't armed. Why not use a -- do they still use tazers? Do they still use other forms of restraint?

ABDUL-SALAAM: The easiest way of accessing these situations, Christi, is you look at the officers' actions and then you take his actions against the backdrop of his training. What was his training? Now myself as a criminal defense investigator I get called in to scrutinize these types of situations from clients. And then what I end up doing is we subpoena their training -- their personnel file. We subpoena their training records and then we also subpoena their trainers and then we -- we establish how was this officer trained.

And so you take race out of the equation, you take all these other peripheral things out of the equation.

PAUL: And you're saying it really comes down to training?

ABDUL-SALAAM: It comes down to what was your training. Every police academy sends their officers for shoot-don't shoot training where they have a scenario, they go through situational training, and they go through a number of high stress situations, and they have seconds to determine whether they should --

PAUL: Right.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Whether they should discharge their firearm or not.

PAUL: But based on what I just told you --

ABDUL-SALAAM: Yes.

PAUL: Might there need to be some modifications to that?

ABDUL-SALAAM: Not that training. That training is excellent. What has to be modified is in service training. And this is where the community gets involved. You go and ask your municipalities how often are officers -- how often do they go through in-service training and so this is how you correct that.

PAUL: OK. All right.

Rashid Abdul-Salaam, always good to have your voice here. Thank you so much, sir.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Thank you. Nice to be here.

PAUL: Appreciate it.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Thank you.

PAUL: Victor?

BLACKWELL: All right. Thank you, Christi. A frat is now firing back -- alumni -- for the disbanded Sigma Alpha Epsilon chapter at the University of Oklahoma. You know, they were the ones who had that racist video that was released.

Well, the alumni has now hired an attorney and they say they are not ruling out suing the school. We'll take a look at their potential arguments.

And in this corner, we have professionally undefeated Floyd Mayweather. In the other corner eight division world champion Manny Pacquiao. Fans are calling it the fight of the century. There could be $300 million on the line. We'll talk about it with Floyd Mayweather.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will never be a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) at SAE. There will never be a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) at SAE.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Yes, by now you've seen the video that set off this strong response for the members of Sigma Alpha Epsilon over at the University of Oklahoma. Two students seen leading that chant have been expelled, the frat has been dissipated, the house there closed. But now the alumni of that Sigma Alpha Epsilon chapter have hired a lawyer and are not ruling out suing the school.

The group's attorney believes SAE members' First Amendment rights were violated. University of Oklahoma president, David Boren, responded to these claims with CNN's Anderson Cooper. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BOREN, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA: I'm a great believer in free speech even at times when you abuse free speech. And then I think we have to use our own free speech to condemn it. But in this case you're creating a very hostile educational environment that's right on all fours with the Civil Rights Act and I think we've struck the appropriate balance here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right. Well, here's what you need to know about Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. Take a look at the screen. It, quote, "prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color and national origin in programs and activities receiving federal assistance."

Let's bring in HLN legal analyst and defense attorney Joey Jackson here.

So, Joey, the question is, did the school overstepped its bounds and was this protected speech?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Victor. It depends upon whose side you're on. And let's talk about those arguments. Now the attorney said he's not suing yet, however he has not ruled out the possibility.

In the event they move forward I would suspect that they would rely upon the First Amendment and say listen, we have a lot of discourse in this society and even discourse conversation that has limited social value like hate speech is protected by the Constitution. So how dare you, no matter how derogatory, no matter how despicable, how dare you kill free speech by throwing these students off campus.

Now let's flip it around. Here's the president's side, certainly, you, Victor, just showed Title VI. And what does that say? We need to prohibit discrimination under the law as it relates to any activities that federal funding applies to, and so this is one of those things it applies to. When in fact not to act would be to accept such conduct. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. We had to do it. Not only that but the school has a code and that code says if there's any abuse that causes intimidation and humiliation to someone else, then you must go.

And finally, Victor, the Supreme Court has said that in terms of educational activities, if education is impaired in any way, and school services are disrupted, as they could be by people who are so upset by this, you know what, you have to act, and so those are the competing sides of the argument.

BLACKWELL: So, Joey, in conversation about the shutting down of the SAE house, the president of the university said, and I'm paraphrasing here, we don't provide student services for bigots. Shut down the entire house.

For the people who are members of that organization that weren't on that bus, did not participate in that chant, do they have some credible legal case against Boren himself?

JACKSON: It's a fabulous question to examine and the answer will lie in the fact that look, the organization is accused of creating the climate and the culture, the organization being this fraternity, and to the extent that you're involved in that fraternity and espousing a culture of that fraternity, certainly everyone is independent and should be judged on their individual merits, but at the same time the fraternity itself has set off a lightening rod and that chant, chants have to be learned, they have to be rehearsed.

And that seems like a chant clearly that was one that was not done for the first time in a bus. And so to the extent that that organization and you being a part of it expresses a value then the argument could be the whole organization has to go. But certainly individuals who don't subscribe or espouse to that view say hey, not me, I'm not a bigot. They were doing it. I wasn't there and as a result, I should not be affected. And so that's going to be something that the court, if it gets that far, will have to determine.

BLACKWELL: Yes. According to a reporting the chant has been around on campus for maybe three or four years. And now they're looking to determine if it's nationwide or at other chapters.

Joey Jackson, thank you so much. JACKSON: Always a pleasure, Victor. Have a great day.

BLACKWELL: You too -- Christi.

PAUL: So boxing champion Floyd Mayweather could win $300 million in his epic fight against Manny Pacquiao, remember. He says he's not doing it for this Benjamin. He said he's doing it for the legacy.

What do you think? He is talking to us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: It's the battle being billed as the fight of the century.

PAUL: Boxers Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao, facing off May 2nd in Las Vegas. We already have producers taking the day off.

BLACKWELL: Taking that Sunday off.

PAUL: They want to go see. The winner is expected to take home really big money.

And CNN's Andy Scholes talks to Mayweather about those things.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: It's being billed as the fight of the century. Greatest fight ever. Everyone's talking about it. Can it live up to the hype?

FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR., BOXER: Absolutely. It's a fight that you can't miss. The fight of the century, part of history. The biggest fight in the sport -- the biggest fight in boxing history. You know, I think if I'm not mistaken the tickets are going from -- between 8,000 to 400.000 to 500,000.

SCHOLES: Yes, you -- normal fan can't just go buy a ticket for $1500.

MAYWEATHER: You know, we call this the billionaire boys club.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHOLES: One more question about the purse. Expected to blow everything you made out of the water. What is your thought of people throwing out numbers like you're going to make $180 million for one fight?

MAYWEATHER: The numbers is -- that's close. Could be a little bit more.

SCHOLES: Could be more.

MAYWEATHER: Yes, it could be more. I mean, but I'm just -- it's not about the money. You know. I'm already set, you know. It's a little bit of everything. Of course, you know, you want to make a lot of money because I'm a prize fighter. I want to make -- I want to get that big prize.

It's about legacy. It's about going down as one of the best. It's about the best facing the best. It's about giving the fans and the people around world excitement.

SCHOLES: Your Instagram account, you like to post, you know, your car, your post cash all the time, watches. Why do you like showing everyone what you've won, what you have?

MAYWEATHER: Well, you know, it's more of a lifestyle. You know, I don't want to be like no one else. You know. And everything that I got came from just hard work, you know, it's to, you know, I want to motivate people. It's not to throw it in anyone's face. I want to motivate you. If I can do it, you can do it. You know, I come from nothing to something.

SCHOLES: You're a known gambler, you like to wager on events. What's the biggest win you've ever had?

MAYWEATHER: I mean, you know, I've bet a million dollars before. I've lost a million dollars, but I've also won -- $6 million or $7 million. You know, I've won $6 million to $7 million. And if I lose a million I'll be, you know, extremely upset, you know. But before I start betting like that I had to make sure that I was set. You know, I had to make sure that I made smart investments and I was set for the rest of my life.

SCHOLES: So you're minus 200 right now. Is that the smart bet?

MAYWEATHER: If I was a betting man I'd bet on Mayweather.

SCHOLES: And you're a betting man, right?

MAYWEATHER: They say Mayweather pay better.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES: Now I also talked to Manny Pacquiao and his trainer Freddie Roach at this red carpet event. Both of them predicted they will win the fight on May 2nd. When I asked Floyd Mayweather his prediction for the fight, he said tune in.

Victor, Christi, back to you.

PAUL: Of course they said --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

PAUL: They both said they'd win.

BLACKWELL: You know, when he said it's not about the money and it could be more than $180 million, I thought, yes, OK. However, it probably in this case is about legacy.

PAUL: Legacy.

BLACKWELL: Because people have been waiting forever for this fight. Yes. I'm looking forward to it.

PAUL: You're going to be up watching it?

BLACKWELL: Yes. And then I'll come in Sunday morning.

PAUL: That ought to be a good show for us, too.

(LAUGHTER)

Andy Scholes, thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, Andy.

PAUL: Listen, speaking of some news and good shows, one of the things we've been watching this morning is one of the most powerful storms to ever make landfall because it's taking a direct aim at an island paradise.

BLACKWELL: Yes, but aid workers there say it looks like a bomb hit the South Pacific island of Vanuatu.

We're tracking this killer storm and see who's next in line here. That's coming at the top of the hour right here on CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: Want to talk about some of the stories developing now. A minister at an Atlanta area mega church wants a private jet and he's expecting donations from churchgoers to pay for it.

In a nearly six-minute video posted on the church's Web site, Minister Creflo Dollar said he just needs 200,000 people committed to give 300 bucks or more to pay for a $60 million private plane. That's all.

BLACKWELL: And this is the nice one, a Gulf Stream G-650. Dollar says he needs the jet to travel around the globe to help spread the gospel. Well, that video has since been taken down from the church's Web site.

PAUL: Secretary of State John Kerry is optimistic that a nuclear deal with Iran can be reached. Speaking in Egypt just a short time ago he said there's been some progress made. Kerry plans to meet with his Iranian counterpart in Switzerland once he leaves Egypt tomorrow. Six world powers, the U.S., Russia, Britain, France and Germany want to have at least an outline of a deal by the end of the month. The goal is keep Iran, of course, from making a nuclear bomb.

BLACKWELL: The Blue Bell Ice Cream Company announced a recall Friday after several deaths were linked to the company's products. Five adults in Kansas developed listeria infections after eating Blue Bell ice cream over the last year. Three of them died. All of them had been patients at a Kansas hospital. The company said all ice cream made on the machine with the potential

of listeria problem has been identified and removed from stores and hospitals. Now this is Blue Bell's first recall in its 108-year history.

PAUL: Now people, I drew the short straw to read this story but I will do it. Doctors in South Africa say they have conducted the world's first penile transplant.

BLACKWELL: Not the short straw.

(LAUGHTER)

PAUL: I said that.

BLACKWELL: I'm just saying.

PAUL: Took place in December of last year. The man whose identity is not being released by the way, you think, has made a full recovery, which is the good news. Much earlier than expected even. But apparently the patient did have some complications from a certain incision which necessitated the surgery and doctors say they used techniques developed in part from the world's first facial transplant. And there you have it.

BLACKWELL: There are so many questions that we just can't get into.

PAUL: And so many jokes that we just can't make.

BLACKWELL: I'm just going to go to the next hour because we've got a lot going on this morning.

PAUL: We do. Next hour of your NEW DAY starts right now.

BLACKWELL: Major destruction.

PAUL: Yes. And death now. A major cyclone making a direct hit on a tiny island nation in the South Pacific.

BLACKWELL: Plus, uncertainty in Ferguson as police officers now hunt down those responsible for shooting two of their own. The mayor says he's not going anywhere. Plus --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on.

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