Return to Transcripts main page

New Day Saturday

CDC and FDA Lift Pause on J&J Vaccine and add Safety Warning; Growing Calls for Police to Release Body Cam Video in Shooting Death of Andrew Brown; Federal Prosecutors Examine Whether Gaetz Took Gifts Including Travel and Paid Escorts for Political Favors; SpaceX Capsule to Open Hatch at International Space Station; Jeffrey Epstein's Girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell to Make First Court Appearance. Aired 6- 7a ET

Aired April 24, 2021 - 06:00   ET




DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta at a mass vaccination site and this is CNN.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. I'm Christi Paul.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Boris Sanchez. The CDC lifting its pause on the Johnson & Johnson vaccine with vaccinations resuming as soon as today, but now will come with a warning.

PAUL: And demanding answers in North Carolina after police shoot and kill a man while serving an arrest warrant. Ten officers involved in that incident are off the streets now.

SANCHEZ: Plus, new details in the investigation into Congressman Matt Gaetz, what prosecutors are now focusing on.

PAUL: Also, investigators say they have found pieces debris believed to be from that missing submarine in Indonesian now this morning. It was full of crew members.

It is Saturday, April 24th. I know you're still laughing at that -- at that ...

SANCHEZ: I love it. It's great. It's only our second time seeing it and it's so flashy.

PAUL: It wakes us -- it wakes us up.

SANCHEZ: It makes us look really cool. Yes.

PAUL: Cooler than maybe we feel sometimes. Yes.

SANCHEZ: That's right. That right.

PAUL: Good to see you, Boris, and thank you all so much for waking up with us. We appreciate you.

SANCHEZ: Always a pleasure to be with you, Christi. We do have to tell you about a major development in the effort to eradicate COVID. Johnson & Johnson's vaccine is rejoining the race to vaccinate Americans just as the United States sees worrying signs that demand for a vaccine is dipping.

The single dose vaccine's label is now going to come with a warning about a rare, but potentially deadly blood clot issue, noting that certain women under the age of 50 may have a very small risk. After a 10-day pause, the CDC's advisers decided that the benefits outweigh the very rare danger.

PAUL: New coronavirus models from the IHME show the current pace of vaccinations will help save thousands of lives by August 1st, but they're worried about a, quote, "slow erosion" of vaccine confidence, predicting vaccine supply will likely outstrip demand by next month, by May and in the meantime, the CDC stepping up its call for all adults to get vaccinated, including recommending pregnant women receive the shot.

SANCHEZ: CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro joins us now live from New York and, Evan, do we have a better sense of where demand for the vaccine stands now as these J&J shots come back online?

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, that is the big question on everybody's mind. I'm at the American Museum of Natural History here in Manhattan which is now a COVID-19 vaccine site starting today and the thing about it is that it's a walk-in site because there's so much vaccine here in New York, anybody can just walk in and get it if they live in New York at this vaccine site.

And also it comes with this sort of new incentive where if you come and get a vaccine here at this museum, you get a pass to bring four people back to the museum with you for free. So, officials here are trying to get this vaccine going. They want people to take it because they are worried that some of the recent news, we've seen could depress demand.


DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: With these actions, the administration of Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine can resume immediately.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): The CDC and FDA have made it official, they've lifted their recommended pause on the use of Johnson & Johnson's single-dose shot, saying that benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks of potential rare blood clots and said the label will be updated to warn of blood clot risks.

GUPTA: This is a rare, very rare, but possible occurrence here and it needs to be treated a certain way. You know, when you think about risk versus benefit, that's what really the emergency use authorization is all about and that's what they really looked at here. If you look on the left, that's women between the ages of 18 and 49. For every 1 million doses given, we saw roughly 13 cases of this condition of clotting, but at the same time, prevented 12 deaths for every 1 million doses, prevented 127 ICU admissions.

That's the risk/benefit sort of ratio. For women over the age of 50, it's even -- it's even greater, the benefits versus the risks. That's ultimately what this decision was about.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): More than 9 million doses of Johnson & Johnson's coronavirus vaccine are ready to be administered in the U.S. now that federal agencies have signed off on its resumption, CNN has learned. Also out Friday, hopeful new numbers from the University of Washington showing the effect vaccinations are already having on death rates in the U.S.

DR. CHRIS MURRAY, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION, UNIV. OF WASHINGTON: The key drivers that are, you know, vaccinations going up, but also we're past the peak of seasonality for the coronavirus. That peaked in about February and with every passing week as we get into the summer, we would expect transmission potential to be going down.


So those two forces working together, we believe, despite the new variants, will bring down deaths at least until August 1st in the United States.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO (voice-over): The CDC needs to step up outreach around vaccine education after the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine pause, says the CDC director, and more people need to get vaccinated.

WALENSKY: In addition to over 65 percent of Americans over the age of 65 being vaccinated, this is also the week we hit 200 million vaccines in less than 100 days and the week when all Americans age 16 and older are eligible. I encourage all younger people to follow the example of older Americans and to get vaccinated. And regardless of your age, please be an ambassador for your neighbors and loved ones by encouraging and assisting them to get vaccinated themselves.


MCMORRIS-SANTORO: So Boris and Crispy -- Christi, not Crispy, Boris and Christi, experts are saying that all signs are pointing to a next phase in this pandemic, which is that phase where people who've gotten the -- who want the vaccine can get it and may have gotten it and now people are trying to make sure that others get it because that's not enough people and we need everybody else to get it.

So, experts are now turning to a more phase of sort of cajoling people, trying to convince them to get this vaccine. They're hoping that this little blip, this little run with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine doesn't affect that too much and they're hoping that incentive packages like the one here at the Natural History Museum will get more people to come out and get their vaccine shots, Boris and Christi.

PAUL: All right. Evan McMorris-Santoro, no problem. I've been accused of being salty. Crispy's a new one. I appreciate it. Thank you.


PAUL: Believe me, we all are aware. Yes. We're with you. Thanks. Thank you so much.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss all the latest COVID headlines with CNN contributor Dr. Abdul El-Sayed He's an epidemiologist and a former city health director for Detroit. Thank you so much for spending time with us this morning, Doctor. Let's start with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. It was paused for 10 days. Considering what the CDC decision ultimately turned out to be, was the pause worth it given how few people were affected and how many people were already hesitant to get vaccinated?

DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I'll tell you this, every decision we can look at and dissect in hindsight, but looking at what the regulators saw, those first six cases, and the recognition that they needed to get the information out to physicians who could, if they did not understand what they were seeing with these clots, could have made them worse by treating them with the usual medication which we know is not the appropriate medication for the kind of clot that we see in association with the J&J vaccine, that they had the responsibility to get this out.

And I think that over the long term, this accountability, recognizing that even with six potential cases of an outcome that regulators are going to look seriously at it, that it's going to breed, in the long term, the kind of accountability, the kind of trust that people ought to have in the process. I know that it's rather frustrating that after 10 days, we, in effect, get to what people thought they already knew.

But we have to let science work out its process and I think it's the right thing that the regulators stepped back and asked is there something more here, is there more we need to learn? And they concluded that they can put a warning label on this, but they can resume use in all populations that were previously authorized.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Transparency is critical. I want to bring up something from the former U.S. Surgeon General under Donald Trump, Dr. Jerome Adams. He tweeted this out yesterday, quote, "The risk of clots with J&J is incredibly small, but risk is about context. With two others widely, increasingly available vaccines that have shown no risk of such clots and women being the ones affected so far, hard to justify taking any chance if you have a choice."

Doctor, would you recommend a friend or loved one who is a woman under the age of 50 try to seek out the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine before opting for the J&J shot?

EL-SAYED: All things being equal, I can understand why someone can make -- would make that decision. At the same time, there are other considerations that folks have to weigh against, whether or not they want to have one shot or two shots, which is the most readily available to them, but I can see where the former Surgeon General is coming from and certainly for folks who are -- who are wanting to be extra cautious, that is a reasonable approach.

But what's critical here to understand is that scientists took the time to assess any potential risk. There is that warning label in a particular age group among women, but this is still safe and effective and if you look at the trade-off here, this is still far better -- it's far better to choose to take the Johnson & Johnson vaccine than to go unvaccinated given what we know about the risks of COVID and it's important always, always to put costs and benefits in context.


SANCHEZ: Yes. And we saw that in the piece that just aired with Sanjay Gupta pointing out, you know, it was a little bit over a dozen cases out of millions of people that have received the J&J vaccine, but for folks at home that want to be extra cautious, what are the warning signs and symptoms that people should be looking for before they seek out medical attention?

EL-SAYED: Yes. It's usually the kinds of pain associated with a clot. So, it's a bad headache or bad leg pain or a really bad stomachache. Those kinds of things following the J&J vaccine, particularly among women in the age range between 18 and 49, those are the things that people should be watching out for and they should have a low point where they'll contact a medical professional and make sure that they're getting appropriate testing.

The key thing here to remember, though, is that the risk of COVID in this case remains higher and we always have to weigh that against that risk, but it is important that folks understand what they can do to protect themselves and what they should be watching out for in the very, very, very rare case that there may be this particular effect.

SANCHEZ: All right. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, thanks so much for getting bright -- getting up bright and early for us.

EL-SAYED: Thanks for having me.

PAUL: Well, the family of Andrew Brown is holding a news conference this afternoon. It's searching for answers after police shot and killed Brown while serving a warrant on Wednesday morning.

SANCHEZ: His family, alongside many in that community, want authorities to release body cam footage of the incident, something that state law has prevented up until this point. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is in Elizabeth City, North Carolina where the calls for transparency are growing louder by the day.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't breathe! I can't breathe!

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After three days of peaceful protest in Elizabeth City, North Carolina ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you see, all these people here, they want answers. GALLAGHER (voice-over): Pasquotank County Sheriff Tommy Wooten revealing seven deputies involved in the incident that led to the shooting death of Andrew Brown Jr. are on administrative leave and three have left the force on their own.

SHERIFF TOMMY WOOTEN, PASQUOTANK COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA: There is absolutely nothing to hide. I am trying to let the investigation unfold.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Wooten meeting with Brown's family for the first time late Friday afternoon. Though he offered condolences, the family called the sit-down, quote, "Almost a waste of time."

ZENA JACKSON, ANDREW BROWN'S COUSIN: The same way we went in is the same way we came out. We still don't know anything. When they called the family in like that, I really thought we was going to see the video.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): The sheriff claims he wants the same.

WOOTEN: Family is not going to have to wait much longer. Their wishes will be granted. I want what the citizens of this county want.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): But that state law prevents the video from body cameras worn by deputies who shot and killed Brown while serving warrants from being publicly released without a court order.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We ask our local officials to release that video.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Something the city council called an emergency meeting Friday afternoon to request. CNN has also joined a media coalition to petition the court to release the videos. Officials haven't given many details about the shooting itself. They say deputies were serving both search and arrest warrants issued by an alcohol drug task force.

CHIEF DEPUTY DANIEL FOGG, PASQUOTANK COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA: This was an arrest warrant surrounding felony drug charges. Mr. Brown was a convicted felon with a history of resisting arrest.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Witnesses claim Brown was in his car trying to get away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cause it's grass, so of course he's spinning mud and they started -- they stood behind him. I couldn't tell you who shot him. I couldn't do that, but one of the offices or maybe a couple shot him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): We have a 40-year-old male with gunshot wounds to the back.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): A law enforcement radio dispatch from the deadly encounter obtained by CNN does reveal that Brown was shot in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Be advised, EMS has got one male, 42 years of age, gunshot to the back.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Brown's family says its quest for answers is made even tougher when they think about what his death will mean for his children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've never in my life seen a man take up the time and love his children the way that he did and the way he would just look at them and they loved him.

GALLAGHER (voice-over): Wishing they could see him one last time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would just want him to know, as he did (ph), that I loved him, and I loved him.


GALLAGHER: Now, the sheriff has said that he's trying to get all of the elements together perfectly before they release this information to make sure that everything is right, but the family says the more time that goes by, the more suspicious they become and protesters have echoed that same sentiment, saying that they plan to protest every night until the video is released and then depending what's on that video, well, they will continue to do so to demand accountability and justice.

North Carolina's governor, Roy Cooper, tweeted, calling the shooting tragic and concerning and said the body camera footage should be released quickly.


Dianne Gallagher, CNN, Elizabeth City, North Carolina.

PAUL: Dianne, thank you. So, President Biden is pushing forward with a slate of aggressive policy initiatives right now. What the White House is set to unveil next week ahead of the President's address to Congress.

SANCHEZ: Plus, new details in the federal investigation surrounding Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz, what investigators are now looking at and a trip that he took in 2016 to the Bahamas, how that plays a role next.


PAUL: Nineteen minutes past the hour and the White House is preparing to roll out new childcare and education proposals ahead of President Biden's first address to Congress on Wednesday. The key question, how he plans to pay for it.

SANCHEZ: Yes. The President has already proposed raising corporate taxes to pay for the first part of his recovery package and CNN has learned that he's expected to call for new taxes on the wealthiest Americans to fund the rest. CNN's Jasmine Wright is live at the White House for us right now.


Good morning, Jasmine. Help break this down for us. What is going to be in Biden's sales pitch when he goes before this joint session of Congress next week?

JASMINE WRIGHT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, they're calling it -- White House officials are calling it human infrastructure, Boris and Christi, and those are things like free pre-K, free community college tuition, free -- excuse me -- investments in -- billions of dollars of investments in training programs and really paid family leave, right?

Those things that are investing in a new work force and to pay for it, the White House is considering nearly doubling the capital tax gains for people making more than $1 million (ph), taxing those earnings from investments kind of the same as ordinary income. Now, the proposal also calls for raising the top marginal tax rate for households making more than $400,000 to 39.6 percent from the existing rate of 37 percent.

Now, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki made the case that the middle class will not have to foot the bill for this proposal.


JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President's bottom line is that people making under $400,000 a year should not, will not have their taxes go up. So if you look at these proposed numbers, which are consistent with what he talked about on the campaign trail when he was running for president, what I can say is that it will only affect people making more than $1 million a year.


WRIGHT: So, Boris and Christi, this is going to be part two of President Biden's massive infrastructure and jobs plan and already Republicans have signaled, from the initial part, the first part, that they are not very interested in getting this passed and even moderate Democrats, lawmakers are really asking how big are they going to go and how targeted these actual things are going to be.

But all -- but regardless of some of that criticism that we've heard early on, President Biden and the White House are going to push ahead, rolling this bill out at their joint address, using that massive audience to make his case. Now, White House officials say that the President has already been working on that speech, really retooling it. It'll be a part of this new push with infrastructure, but it'll also be kind of a victory lap, talking about how much progress this White House has made during the pandemic.

So, we will see that this week and then also, afterwards, we will see him go out and push this Americans Family Plan's in Georgia, Christi, Boris.

PAUL: All right. Jasmine Wright, good to see this morning, ma'am. Thank you. And be sure to stay with us. CNN Wednesday night, President Biden giving his first address to a joint session of Congress. Jake Tapper, Abby Phillip, Dana Bash walking you through CNN's special live coverage of that, starting at 8:00 P.M. right here on CNN.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead, new developments in the investigation of Congressman Matt Gaetz. Why investigators are looking into a 2018 trip he took to the Bahamas and his potential ties to the medical marijuana industry.




SANCHEZ: We are 27 minutes past the hour, and we have new details about the federal investigation into Congressman Matt Gaetz. Sources telling CNN that prosecutors are looking into whether the Florida Republican took gifts, including travel and paid escorts, in exchange for political favors.

PAUL: Now, this is part of an ongoing probe also examining whether Gaetz engaged in a relationship with a girl that began when she was just 17 years old. CNN's Paula Reid is with us now. So, Paula, talk to us about what federal investigators are looking at.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, CNN has learned the federal sex trafficking investigation into Congressman Gaetz includes looking at whether Gaetz took gifts, like travel and paid escorts, in exchange for political favors.

Sources briefed on the matter say the Justice Department is scrutinizing a 2018 trip to the Bahamas involving Gaetz and several young women. They're specifically looking at whether the getaway was part of an orchestrated effort to illegally influence the congressman on the issue of medical marijuana.

CNN has previously reported that Gaetz is under investigation for engaging in a relationship with a woman that began when she was just 17 and that Gaetz attended sex parties in Orlando with other prominent Republicans that involved women, drugs and exchanging sex for money.

Now, CNN has learned that investigators already have one key witness who's cooperating. That's Joel Greenberg. He's the former Seminole County tax commissioner and he's a close associate of Gaetz who also attended those sex parties. Now, he was indicted last year on multiple federal charges, including sex trafficking, and he's expected to enter a plea deal in the coming weeks.

Now, looking at the Congressman's history with the issue of medical marijuana, he has a long history of advocating for medical marijuana. He's introduced pieces of legislation at the state and federal levels, trying to loosen laws regulating the drug and according to reports, Dr. Jason Pirozzolo, a Florida doctor who founded a medical marijuana advocacy group, accompanied Gaetz on that 2018 trip to the Bahamas.

Now, Gaetz has referred to the doctor as one of his best friends. The pair have also repeatedly intersected over the issue of medical marijuana. Going as far back as 2014, Gaetz, then a state representative in Florida, introduced medical marijuana legislation just two weeks after vacationing with Pirozzolo in the Florida Keys. One week after the legislation passed, Pirozzolo launched a medical marijuana consulting company.

Then in April 2018 when Gaetz introduced the Medical Cannabis Research Bill, a source tells CNN the Congressman hand delivered a fully written draft of the bill to his staff which overlaps significantly with the agenda of the doctor's group and neither Gaetz nor Pirozzolo have been accused by the Justice Department of wrongdoing or charged with a crime. A lawyer for Pirozzolo declined to comment, and a spokesman for Gaetz told CNN "Matt Gaetz is a longtime policy expert on the subject and passed legislation on the matter as far back as 2013. To suggest he needed anyone else nudging him along is risible." Paula Reid, CNN, Washington.

SANCHEZ: Paula, thank you so much for that.

PAUL: Yes, the SpaceX crew 2 mission is now at the International Space Station. Take a look at some of these pictures we've gotten in less than an hour from now, the crew is opening the hatch after docking just a short time ago. This is a four-person team that will be greeted by a bit of a welcome party there. A SpaceX crew Dragon spacecraft launched from Kennedy's space center in Florida early yesterday morning. This mission marks SpaceX's third crew launch followed up by -- follow, I should say, two missions that happened last year. We are monitoring the developments there throughout the morning, we'll be bringing you the very latest pictures that we have, that you can see them there right now live.

SANCHEZ: Ghislaine Maxwell is making her first court appearance since her arrest last year. The charges that Jeffrey Epstein's former girlfriend is facing and the penalties, the steep penalties, she could face, next.



PAUL: Thirty-five minutes past the hour right now. A bipartisan group of lawmakers are looking to take the next steps towards passing police reform measures.

SANCHEZ: The George Floyd Justice and Policing Act passed the house last month, but it's yet to be taken up in the Senate. Now, the bill would create a national registry of police misconduct, it would ban racial and religious profiling, it would ban chokeholds and no knock warrants and it would overhaul qualified immunity. And it's that last point that's gotten the most attention. CNN's Daniella Diaz joins us now live from Capitol Hill. Danielle, bring us up to speed. Where do negotiations stand right now?

DANIELLA DIAZ, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Boris, Democrats and Republicans are trying to meet in the middle on this issue of police reform, especially given this week that with the renewed momentum of Derek Chauvin's guilty verdict. On one hand, you have Senator Tim Scott who is negotiating on behalf of Republicans on this issue to try to pass a bill through the Senate. He opposes Democratic efforts to lower the legal standard to prosecute individual officers. And then of course, on the other hand, you have Congresswoman Karen Bass who spearheaded this through the house when they passed this bill.

And she's the former Congressional Black Caucus chair. She's pushing to change the federal law to ensure that police officers can be charged for reckless conduct rather than willful misconduct, this essentially means lowering the bar to prosecute police officers on this issue. You know, this is different than what's going on right now with qualified immunity, this topic that you just mentioned to try to allow victims of police violence to pursue, you know, justice in court, in civil court, against individual police officers. Scott is OK with shifting the blame on an individual police officer to their police department.

But this is something Karen Bass is very strong on. She wants to address these issues so that victims of police violence can seek recourse in civil court. And there's renewed spotlight on Scott on this issue. He is the one, of course, negotiating on behalf of Republicans. He is the only black Republican senator, and he has now been tasked with responding to President Joe Biden's address to the joint Congress next week where Joe Biden is expected to talk about what he wants to see in police reform legislation. So, this is a huge job for Scott that he's been tasked with.

And now, he -- you know, is negotiating on behalf of Republicans and will now have to respond to the president on this issue. But look, Democrats and Republicans are racing to cut a deal on this before May 25th which is the anniversary of George Floyd's death. So, that's kind of where things stand right now on this issue. Boris, Christi?

SANCHEZ: Yes, it's also going to be a huge opportunity for Scott, someone who may have 2024 aspirations. Daniella Diaz, thanks so much for the reporting.

PAUL: So, let's get into the legal brief here. Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin as we have learned will be sentenced June 16th for the murder of George Floyd. Chauvin's being held until sentencing for second degree murder, third degree murder and second- degree manslaughter. He could spend up to 40 years in prison for killing George Floyd on May -- in May of 2020. CNN's legal analyst, criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson is with us now. Joey, it is so good to have you with us, thank you for being here. Does this guilty verdict move the needle at all on what Daniella was just talking about on ending this qualified immunity?

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Christi, good morning to you. You know, this is a big moment that we have. And in these big moments, I think there are measures that can be undertaken because people then come together. It's been a day of reckoning, obviously. And you know, I think it's so important as it relates to the verdict because we've seen in prior cases, right, officers are investigated, they may not be arrested in the case of Eric Garner in New York, right? Remember, "I can't breathe" he, of course, the officer with regard to that case was not indicted. If we -- if I can shift back to, you know, Fernando Castillo in Minneapolis in 2016, the traffic stop you might recall, Christi, right?


Where the officer was prosecuted, indicted, but not convicted. So, let's not forget how big of a moment it is in terms of accountability. And so, these big moments as you see, all the people gathered together provide a chance to do big things. And so, I think it does move the needle, I think people are looking at this in a very close way as it relates to police reform in general. I think people recognize and understand that this presents an opportunity. Now that you have this moment of reckoning, what do we do now? Do we pass the reform for no knock warrants and chokeholds and you know, explicit and implicit bias training?

And then the final piece and the significant piece which they're hung up on is this qualified immunity. What is that? Well, it allows for, obviously, in certain circumstances, officers to be immune, right, to not really be held accountable in a civil context. Just want to make that clear, not from a prosecutorial perspective, but from a civil context when people sue as a result of being -- you know, the victims of police, police are generally not held accountable. And so, if you can fix that piece of qualified immunity by saying you're not going to be immune, and it provides a chance to sue and get accountability in civil court, I think that's a major step forward.

We'll see if Congress has the will to do it. We know the House of Representatives have. We'll see what the Senate does. But yes, an answer to your question, I think if ever there was a time to fix that piece to allow officers to be sued, it would be now. And potentially, it can happen.

PAUL: OK, let's talk about Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's former girlfriend. She's pleaded not guilty to federal sex trafficking charges. She was arrested last Summer. Her first court appearance, though, was yesterday. Help us understand, Joey, what evidence exists, do we know what evidence exists to try to convict her?

JACKSON: Well, you know, on that question, obviously, it depends on who you speak to, right? From a prosecutorial perspective, they believe that significant evidence exists, going back to the 1990s with regard to this misconduct. Now, let's just to be clear, just to set the table, what they're alleging is that she assisted, aided, abetted and conspired with Jeffrey Epstein in order to recruit and groom and really lead the path for these women, then children, to be abused. And so when I say these women, it speaks to your issue, right? The question, what evidence? Well, the evidence is that these children are now women, and these women who have been interviewed have come forward and said this is what happened to me, right?

Miss Maxwell was the one who really set up the stage who said we're going to go and we're going to meet Jeffrey Epstein under false pretenses. They turned into massages. They turned into whatever escapades they did. And she really was the liaison is the allegation in that regard. And so the evidence would be the women who have come forward to say, hey, it happened to me, and then you go and you track and you find out when it happened, how it happened, who was involved and you get those records and you start to piece together something that, you know, could potentially be just very problematic and troubling obviously, was to those women.

But it's problematic for her, and as much as she's facing a world of hurt, we know she's in pending the trial which is scheduled for July. And so, we'll see what prosecutors do. Final piece, Christi, and that is this new indictment it superseded. They added new conduct that occurred in the 2000s, as opposed to the 1990s. And so there are four particular women who are going to come forward and say, you did this, you brought us together, you set the stage and you should be accountable.

PAUL: And yes, that's it, we've got the 1990s case, now we have some more recent accusations is what you're talking about there. And you mentioned the July case that is supposed to come to fruition. I understand that she wants the judge to delay that schedule. What would that reasoning be? And do you think the judge will do so?

JACKSON: So, I think there's a good chance. So, there's a couple of things. The first thing is, is that because of this new indictment, it's called a superseding indictment where you add additional charges, this new indictment alleges that there was conduct as to a 14-year- old. So defense is saying that hey, because of these new allegations, we really want you to, you know, delay this trial so we can now have an opportunity to review, evaluate and investigate and be prepared. The second thing is because of COVID, and the restrictions, there's not the ability defense lawyers say to convey, communicate, meet with their client to be prepared for the trial. So, we'll see what the judge does. But those are the two basis in which the defense wants a postponement from July 12th, which is when it's now scheduled. Christi.

PAUL: Joey Jackson, you're one of the hardest working men in the legal arena, I think. Thank you so much for being with us.

JACKSON: Thank you, Christi.

SANCHEZ: A major change to tell you about in the search for a missing submarine in Indonesia. Next, what crews found and what the discovery could mean.



SANCHEZ: Breaking news in the search for an Indonesian military submarine that disappeared this week. Indonesia's Navy says that the ship sank, announcing that search teams found debris believed to be from the sub deep in the Bali Sea.

PAUL: CNN's Blake Essig is in Tokyo. So, Blake, if they found pieces that they believe to be the submarine, what does that tell us about any rescue efforts or the status of the crew or what happened here?

BLAKE ESSIG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Boris, Christi, the Indonesian Navy didn't really allude to any potential survivors, but again this is heartbreaking news out of Indonesia. Within the last two hours, the Navy chief of staff addressed the media to report that several pieces of debris from the missing submarine have been found.


A total of six pieces of debris were presented including a bottle of grease which the crew would use to grease the submarine's periscope, part of a torpedo launcher, a mattress for praying, part of the metal tube and fuel. Now, officials say these items were found in waters with a depth of nearly 2,800 feet and were confirmed to belong to the submarine by former crew members based on findings from the Navy chief of staff. They were able to conclude that an explosion didn't occur, instead, it's believed that the submarine sustained a heavy crack under immense pressure which caused some of those items to float to the surface.

No bodies at this point have been found. Now, the 44-year-old sub with 53 people on board went missing Wednesday morning during a torpedo drill in the Bali Strait. Now, this particular sub had a dive capacity of roughly 1,600 feet. And the big concern at the time was that the sub descended to a depth of more than 2,300 feet which is well beyond its survivable limits and could have caused the sub to implode. Now, while acknowledging the sub has sank, the Navy chief of staff said they will now carry out an evacuation process to recover the submarine and its crew once they find its exact location.

Now, he said they'll try to save any crew members who are able to survive, although, there is virtually no hope of survival. Now, Indonesia has about 20 ships and four aircrafts searching the area, about 25 miles north of Bali. Now, Singapore and Malaysia, Australia and India have also sent ships, while the United States is sending several air assets including a P-8 Poseidon which arrived earlier today. But again, it seems our worst fears have been realized as debris from the missing sub with 53 souls on board has been recovered. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Yes, tragic development out of Southeast Asia, Blake Essig, thank you for bringing it to us. Hey, stay with NEW DAY, we'll be right back.



PAUL: For some promising news from Tiger Woods following that car crash a couple of months ago.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Coy Wire is with us. Now, Coy, Tiger may be on the mend, but it's good to see him smiling.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: No doubt, good morning, Boris, Christi, on the two-month anniversary, the car crash that left him with injuries, that required him to have a rod, pins and screws put into his lower leg. Here he is sharing this photo, Tiger smiling, standing on crutches, writing, quote, "my course is coming along faster than I am, but it's nice to have a faithful rehab partner, man's best friend." That's his dog, Bucks(ph). The 15-time major winner's rehabbing at his home in Florida, still a long way to go, but in this photo, giving hope to fans who believe that maybe he'll be able to golf the same level again.

All right, let's go to difference makers now, following the emotional guilty verdict this week in the case of George Floyd's death, some of the biggest names in hoops are looking forward, sharing hopes about where our country can go from here.


CANDACE PARKER, FIVE-TIME WNBA ALL-STAR: It's not OK to just be a bystander of justice or our political system or democracy. And I think democracy, we think of as a destination and it's a continuous journey. And it has to be thought of that way.

STEVE KERR, HEAD COACH, GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: There's nothing that anybody on TV can say to change the fact that George Floyd was murdered by a police officer. And the jury saw it that way, because that's what happened. But we also know that there are so many incidents that happened out there that aren't on video and aren't on tape that you don't get the accountability.

DOC RIVERS, HEAD COACH, PHILADELPHIA 76ERS: Blacks have been dehumanized for a long time. And to see a man go to jail for killing a black man should not be significant. But it is, so, I guess in that way, we're coming a long way, but we still have a long way to go.

GREGG POPOVICH, HEAD COACH, SAN ANTONIO SPURS: Imagine being 70, 80, 90-year-old black person who has seen so much ugly in their lives in every way, shape and form, socially, economically, et cetera, what a joy it had to be for someone like that, to see this outcome in this trial.

KYIRE IRVING, GUARD, BROOKLYN NETS: We just want to continue to galvanize each other and be there for them as other human beings and continue to support justice being served.

POPOVICH: I think it's a time to understand that, that was maybe a victory in a war that got to continue to be waged in the sense of demanding equality and justice and rights because it hasn't happened yet.

KARL-ANTHONY TOWNS, FORWARD, MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES: It's one of those moments you worry if reform is not done, we'll be having the same situation again, and that's the most unfortunate disheartening thing.

PARKER: Just because we're athletes, just because we're stay-at-home moms or businessmen or doctors or lawyers, whatever we are, like we have to actively participate in that, because if we don't, we're not doing our job and we're failing the generation that comes after us.


WIRE: Boris, and Candace Parker, five-time WNBA All-Star, mother of an 11-year-old girl, Boris and Christi, just join what any parent wants to do, and that's try to make the world a better place for our kids.

PAUL: All right, Coy Wire, thank you so much, always love the inspiration you bring. NEW DAY continues right now.

SANCHEZ: Love those snazzy graphics. Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY, I'm Boris Sanchez.

PAUL: And I'm Christi Paul, hope you're waking up there really well. So, I want to give you a look at the International Space Center live.