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New Day Saturday

Parents of Alleged Michigan School Shooter Arrest In Detroit; Shooting Suspect's Parents Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter; Biden Outlines New Steps To Combat COVID-19 Through Winter Months; Omicron Variant Cases Confirmed In At Least 12 States; First U.S. Overdose Prevention Centers Open In New York. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired December 04, 2021 - 07:00   ET



CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Since the pandemic began, customer facing sectors like retail lost jobs and hiring stalled in leisure and hospitality and in health care. But almost 600,000 people entered the workforce -- that's a welcome development, and the government's survey of households found hiring more robust, pulling that jobless rate to the lowest in more than a year and a half. We know that hundreds of thousands of people during the pandemic have left their old jobs and started their own businesses instead. There has been record job hopping in the labor market and companies have been raising wages to attract and retain talent that is keeping wage growth robust in this report wages up 4.8 percent in November. Christi, Boris.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Christine Romans, thanks for that. A quick programming note, to share with you, tomorrow night be sure to join CNN's Elle Reeve for a new documentary "WHITE POWER ON TRIAL: RETURN TO CHARLOTTESVILLE," a new CNN special report Sunday at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN. The next hour of new day starts right now.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: We're always so grateful to have you with us. Welcome to NEW DAY. It's Saturday December 4th. I'm Christi Paul.

SANCHEZ: Good morning, Christi. Great to be with you. I'm Boris Sanchez. We begin with the fugitive parents of the suspect and the Oxford high school shooting now in Oakland County jail where their son is also being held for allegedly killing four of his classmates and injuring seven others. You're watching exclusive video obtained by CNN as James and Jennifer Crumbley, were arrested early this morning on manslaughter charges after police were tipped off. But the couple were in Detroit.

PAUL: An attorney for the parents said they left town for their own safety and intended to turn themselves in yesterday, that of course never happened. This type of evasive behavior though and what the criminal is allegedly did leading up to the shooting appear to be what led the prosecutor to filing charges listen to this.


KAREN MCDONALD, OAKLAND COUNTY PROSECUTOR: They didn't say to the school officials or anyone else: Hey, just so you know, he has a weapon. I think we should take him home. Just so you know, he has access to a gun. Instead, they resisted taking him. And the decision was made that he should go back to class. And what we know now is there was actually -- we, we have to assume based on the footage that we've seen and a lot of other things. That gun was in the backpack with the child at that meeting. And it wasn't two hours later, that he walked into a bathroom, walked out and began to systematically try to kill as many people as he could. So, yes, I think they are culpable. And I think their actions upon hearing that there was an active shooter at their son's school are even more disturbing.


SANCHEZ: Let's go to CNN Shimon Prokupecz. He's live in Pontiac, Michigan this morning. Shimon -- and his team have been up all night following the story -- you were there, as law enforcement held a press conference at about 3:00 a.m. And Shimon, it seems that the Crumbleys had no intentions of turning themselves in, despite what their attorneys said. Authorities went in with all different kinds of law enforcement, and they were equipped for anything.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they weren't taking any chances. These were fugitive, fugitives. And so, the Fugitive Task Force the U.S. Marshals were out searching that for the for them. This exclusive video that we obtained captures the moments right after they were taken into custody, and you see them inside this building that they fled into.

Police saying someone let them in and they know who left them and that person could potentially face charges. And so, it was a 9-1-1 call, a tip from someone in the neighborhood who saw a woman perhaps matching the description of who police were looking for. But more importantly, it was a vehicle they saw the car. Someone saw the car that police had put out a description of that they were looking for, and so they call 9-1-1. And then when police got there, they had information that the couple, the -- were inside this building and so they started the search through the building, and they found them hiding in a first- floor room.

And so, then you see the video here which shows them being taken into custody by the U.S. Marshals by the Detroit Police and other law enforcement. They're in heavy gear with all sorts of body armor and heavy weaponry obviously, as you said, Boris not taking any chances. The Detroit Police Chief spoke about someone else they are investigating. They're trying to find out who left them in and why they let them in. Take a listen.


CHIEF JAMES E. WHITE, DETROIT POLICE: Yes, in fact, they were aided, and we're looking at that portion of the investigation. That part is very active right now. Our Metro Division has information at they're sharing with the U.S. Marshals and I'll be sharing with the Oakland County Sheriff's Department.

[07:05:04] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say aided, did someone let them in so they didn't break in?

WHITE: They did not break in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, someone let them into this building.

WHITE: Yes, yes.


PROKUPECZ: And they're now not far from me. They're booked at the county jail, which is just over to my left. That is where they are, with their son in the same jail awaiting arraignment. We expect that they will be arraigned sometime today after 9:00 a.m., and then we'll see. You know, their chances of getting any kind of bail obviously, it's probably zero, or they'll set a very high bill because of what they did today.

SANCHEZ: Some unbelievable details. Shimon Prokupecz from Pontiac, Michigan. Thank you.

PAUL: Shimon, thank you so much to you and your team there. Let's talk to CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem. I want to paint a very clear picture right now Juliette of where this kid is. So, he's in jail, he's killed four people. Meanwhile, in the last 24-48 hours, they, they took out $4,000. They left their son, essentially just left him in jail. What does that tell you, that alone tell you about their parenting? And do you believe that maybe some sort of negligence could be added to their charges?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Probably not negligence, but definitely, you know, sort of avoiding arrest and, and being denied bail are likely the greatest consequences. There'll probably be additional charges to their involuntary manslaughter charges that were announced yesterday based on their, their fleeing, and they are a flight risk, and they are at least in possession or one stage were in possession of weaponry.

So, this will add on to the criminal complaint against them. But I am so glad you mentioned they left their kid in jail. I mean, these are not people who seem to care much about anyone else really honestly and put the school at risk, obviously and are, were cooperative, or at least part of their son's plan that happened on Tuesday.

PAUL: So, I want to just read for you what we know at this point that they knew and then ask you about something on the other side of it. So, we know that the day before the shooting the teacher observed Ethan's searching for ammunition while he was in class. Teacher reported it to the school, school sent a voicemail to the mom's phone also followed up with an e-mail never got a reply. And then the day of the shooting, the parents saw in a meeting with the school the parents saw the note that he had written where he talked about how my life is useless, the world is dead.

It had a drawing of a semi-automatic handgun pouring it the words: "The thoughts won't stop, help me." They, they told, they were told to get counseling for him within 48 hours. They didn't ask where the gun was. They, they were described as resisting the idea of taking him out of school, and they left without him. Do, do you interpret what we saw from him in, in those drawings as a cry for help? And, and when I say negligence? This is what I'm talking about negligence in terms of caring for your child?

KAYYEM: Care for your child in the community. So, look, the standard is what a reasonable person have acted as they did? And the answer is no. I mean, the facts are really compelling, and they don't just begin on Monday. Here they have a kid who it's hard to believe he just wakes up on Tuesday with these horrible thoughts. This is a kid who might have had a violent thought before. They armed him on Friday they announced in a very public way the mother is on social media. It's very performative about how they're talking about the gun.

The son is on, on social media asking for sort of audience engagement saying he'll answer questions. And then Monday happens she the mother does this LOL text, which anyone -- you know, which, which I interpret as a mother to be you and me it's us against them but she's saying you know basically ignore the school district I'm not mad at you just don't get caught. It's me and you kid, right? And so, she basically denigrates the school's concerns and then ignores her responsibility, or their responsibility, the parents' responsibility to notify the school that the son. The son is in possession or has a gun and they don't know where the gun is. None of this is reasonable behavior.

And it's why this case is so important because it's you know, this isn't about bad parenting people don't go to you know, don't go to jail for bad parenting mostly, this is about unreasonable parenting by any standard and the duty for a responsible gun possession and gun ownership in this country. And that's why this is such a, such a big deal case because it's getting around our sort of politics about gun ownership and just saying this isn't about gun ownership, it's about responsible gun ownership and a responsibility to a community.


PAUL: Real quickly, the parents, you know, insisting that he stay in school on Tuesday after they had seen all of this evidence. Does -- do you think the school is going to come under any scrutiny for the fact that they let the parents basically call the shots at that point?

KAYYEM: That's exactly right. I think they will probably will not be criminal liability. But there will be civil lawsuits about what the school did. And I don't, I don't view them as equally culpable. You know, we put a lot on school districts --

PAUL: Right.

KAYYEM: -- the teachers, I have to say, were incredible. I mean, they, you know, Monday and Tuesday, they say something is wrong with this kid. I don't know why the school district listened to the parents, in terms of allowing him back in but the school district it appears did not know that there was a gun, was not told that there was a gun, and that the parents, you know, should have known that the son was in possession of the gun. It certainly seems like that from, from the social media context.

So, so, the school, school district is in trouble. But you know, taking a step back, you know -- I mean, the school that the school district is in a moment in which they're the last line of defense means a whole lot has gotten wrong at that moment. And we need to stop playing defense and expect these schools and teachers to do something that our society or laws and of course parents ought to be doing.

PAUL: Juliette Kayyem, we always value your, your interpretation of these things and your insight. Thank you for being with us.

KAYYEM: Thank you, have a good day.

PAUL: You as well.

SANCHEZ: Before we go to break, we want to take another moment to remember the students who lost their lives and show you their faces, the faces lost in the latest senseless act of gun violence at a school in the United States. Tate Myre, was 16 years old. Madison Baldwin was 17.

PAUL: You see there too, Hannah St. Juliana, who was just 14; and Justin Shilling, who was 17. We are thinking of their parents, as they watch all of this unfold, and now try to deal with life without their children. We'll be right back.



PAUL: Well, this week President Biden announced a new strategy that aims at fighting a potential winter surge of COVID-19 without enacting unpopular lockdowns as the pandemic approaches the two-year mark. Yes, we're approaching that. And just to give you some perspective here, the average COVID daily cases in the United States right now, top 100,000. That's for the first time in two months.

SANCHEZ: And as cases of the worrying new Omicron variant begin surfacing, causing countries around the world to impose tight new restrictions. Let's get up to the White House now and check in with CNN is Jasmine Wright who's live for us now. Jasmine, how is the White House preparing for this potential surge the President was describing?

JASMINE WRIGHT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, the White House is definitely on a tight rope right now when it comes to managing the pandemic. There's no doubt about it. They're trying their best to keep Americans safe, but also keep the economy going and face the harsh reality that Americans are just tired of the pandemic and the rules and enforcement that comes along with it.

So, all this week, we saw President Biden really trying to balance all of that. We saw him really declare about the Omicron virus variant that there is cause for concern but not panic. And then, on the other side, we saw him unveil that COVID Winter strategy that you just spoke about where the President really relies on increasing the pool of Americans that are vaccinated, trying to get those holdouts as well as children but also avoiding unpopular lockdowns.

That is an important part about this. Now, yesterday on Friday at the White House when the president after he gave remarks on that kind of mediocre so-so jobs report, he was asked whether or not he would enact vaccine mandates for domestic flights, which would be a dramatic increase of the status quo. Take a listen.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The measures that I announced yesterday, are -- we believe, are sufficient to deal with the proper medical precautions to deal with the spread of this new variant. I think I know a fair amount about this issue. But I'm not a scientist. So, I continue to rely on the scientist and asking them whether or not we have to move beyond what we did yesterday. Right now, they're saying no.


WRIGHT: So, that no from the president, who obviously had a little bit of a cold yesterday, that only applies to domestic flights. For international flights, he announced a new change that Americans returning back to the U.S. would need a negative test within 24 hours of their flight. That is shortened from the three-day that it was and that starts on Monday. And of course, not U.S. citizens will have to be vaccinated.

Now, there are other measures that as the situation evolves, we could see the White House put in place trying to avoid a potential winter surge because the bottom line for them Christie and Boris is that they want to see this pandemic over. That's how they see getting over getting the economy back together really using it full force, but also getting some of their approval numbers up that have been sinking. So, that is the bottom line for this White House as they approach the winter. Christi, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Ending the pandemic, that key that unlocks so much of what this administration wants to do. Jasmine Wright from the White House. Thank you so much.

PAUL: Jasmine, thank you. Dr. Saju Mathew with us now, a public health expert here in Atlanta. Dr. Mathew, always good to see you. So, pull back the curtain for us on this latest mutation on Omicron. Because the CDC Director, Walensky, says, yes, the U.S. has tools to fight it, but what we really need to be focused on is the Delta, the Delta variant, do we, do we know -- compare the potency of both?

DR. SAJU MATHEW, CNN MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, good morning, Christi, yet another dangerous potentially dangerous variant to talk about. You see, the biggest concern scientists have about Omicron are these increased number of mutations on the spike protein, and the spike protein is key when it comes to the virus latching on and getting into our body.

So, the more mutations that you have on the spike protein, the more capable the viruses of infecting us and causing damage. But there's still that is unknown. Even if Omicron becomes a rather predominant strain here in the U.S., it still has to compete with Delta, just as you mentioned, and I'm not 100 percent sure that Omicron can totally push Delta to the side. I mean, just as you mentioned, at the opening, we're a little over 100,000 daily cases, and our biggest concern in the U.S. still needs to be the delta variants.


PAUL: So, talk about a timeline. Is there any indication how long it might be before we have some real concrete data to show us? You know, what is the severity of Omicron? We know the transmissibility is a factor but in terms of its potency, and whether it's more deadly, those are things that are still in question.

MATHEW: Right. You know, I've been watching this like, like a hawk, because I am first of all interested in the data that's comfortable to come from the laboratory proceed. This is where we're going to find out, will these neutralizing anti-bodies work on the Omicron, Omicron variant? That is not going to be too difficult to find out. We'll be able to know that in the next week or so.

And then, we're also going to start getting data from the South African primary care physicians that are seeing patients by the way, young patients that are coming in with mild symptoms. The biggest confusion I think for a lot of people, Christi, is why are scientists using the word deadly and more contagious at the same time?

Just because the virus is more transmissible doesn't necessarily mean that it's more deadly, because it is really to the benefit of the virus to infect more people, but not kill the host. So, now for sure, we are getting preliminary information that it is more transmissible, we'll have to wait and see if it is actually more potent and more deadly.

PAUL: That is an important point of clarity. And thank you so much for making that. We know the Pfizer. Pfizer is seeking the FDA authority for boosters for people ages 16 to 17. Do you see any obstacles there?

MATHEW: No, I don't. I think that, you know, the vaccine before was approved for that age group was safe, effective, anti-body response really good. And yes, we have to remember that even our 16 and 17- year-olds need to get boosted. That's also a big question I'm getting at work is, you know, my teenager has gotten two shots, will he or she need to get boosted?

You know, and I think most importantly, also, Christi, we should not be waiting for that perfect vaccine. People are thinking, hey, if I just wait long enough, we're going to get a Omicron super vaccine that fights against that against that variant. Remember, we just talked about the predominant strain is Delta and there's no perfect vaccine. So, get that booster shot if you're eligible and get that first shot if you've not been vaccinated.

PAUL: Such good points today, Dr. Mathew, especially at a time when it's just really confusing for people. Thank you so much. Good to see you. MATHEW: Thank you, Christi.

SANCHEZ: We have a controversial discussion up ahead for you, they are called overdose prevention sites. But critics say, they are a legal and moral dilemma. We're going to hear from an advocate for these harm reduction facilities on how they could play a key role in the fight against the opioid crisis. We'll be right back.



SANCHEZ: 27 minutes past the hour. So, New York City opened two safe injection sites this week becoming the first city in the country to establish two locally authorized overdose prevention centers where drug users will be allowed to use illegal drugs and get medical care if they overdose. The centers also offer treatment and social services if they are in recovery. In a statement Mayor Bill de Blasio said in part: "Overdose prevention centers are a safe and effective way to address the opioid crisis. I'm proud to show cities in this country that after decades of failure, a smarter approach is possible. Several other cities have attempted to open similar sites, but the controversial idea faces legal challenges. For example, a program in Philadelphia was delayed after the U.S. Attorney sued the nonprofit that plan to open that site, an organization called Safe House.

Joining us this morning is the Vice President of Safe House, Ronda Goldfein, she's also the executive director of the AIDS Law Project of Pennsylvania. Ronda, a pleasure to have you this morning. Thank you for sharing part of your weekend with us. You're an advocate for these sites. Why is it that you believe that allowing the supervised use of illicit drugs is a good thing?

RONDA GOLDFEIN, VICE PRESIDENT, SAFEHOUSE: Thank you for having me. We know that people are using drugs in all kinds of unsafe places. And to us, it makes sense to give a person an opportunity to do that in a safe, sterile environment where help can be immediately at hand if the person begins to show signs of overdose, and then to talk to the person about services about treatment when they're ready. People are going to use drugs. We haven't solved that problem. And so, to say we're not going to try to make it safer for them, doesn't, doesn't address the crisis.


SANCHEZ: Now, Safehouse is waiting to hear whether it's going to be able to move forward with its plans to open centers in Philadelphia.

There's a court case now, it got blocked during the Trump administration, the attempt to open that facility. And depending on what happens in this case, we could see more of these sites open across the country.

So far, the Biden administration has not moved to shut down the centers in New York. So, what do you make of that? And where do you realistically think that this case is headed? GOLDFEIN: I hope that our litigation will result in a clear signal from the Biden administration, that folks can try evidence-based initiative to save the lives of people who are struggling with drug use. You know, I think that we need some clarity on that point.

I applaud the folks in New York, they are great, courageous souls, who have said we must save lives, and they set about to do that.

In our case, we're waiting for, hopefully, governmental approval that will then support us and other communities who need to move forward but are afraid of the threat of federal prosecution.

SANCHEZ: And there's also a hesitation or an apprehension about potential liability, right? Because what happens if someone dies in a municipal facility under the care of government workers?

GOLDFEIN: People are dying in the streets now. And so, I think we need to while recognize the concerns about liability, I think our priority has to be with families of the 100,000 who died in the last 12 months.

The CDC reported from April 2020, through April 2021, more than 100,000 people died in the U.S. And so, I think we can find lots of reasons to say, well, this is too risky, we shouldn't move forward. But in the end, this is a safe -- a safer path forward.

SANCHEZ: I think, pointing out the extent of the opioid epidemic and the number of lives lost every day to these harmful drugs is important, because the historic approach to tackling drug use in this country has been a failure. It's been violence, it's been racist. It hasn't ultimately addressed the problem. There's not a lot of people claiming victory on the war on drugs.

So, in your mind, what else needs to happen to stem the tide and to end the opioid epidemic?

GOLDFEIN: Supervised consumption alone isn't going to solve the opioid crisis. But I think your point is right. We've had a 50-year war on drugs, we end up with a record high of deaths in this country. And we need to start thinking about things that work in other places.

And among the things that work in other places are supervised consumption, some level of decriminalization. And if we're going to solve the opioid crisis, let's not forget affordable housing.

We ask folks to make incredible decisions to save themselves while we don't offer them very much.

SANCHEZ: And Ronda, something I didn't hear you mentioned that I want to get your perspective on before we go is potential accountability for the people that provide the kind of drugs that ultimately get folks hooked on heroin and other opioids?

Do you think that more needs to be done, whether it's in the pharmaceutical industry or in the medical industry to prevent these drugs from getting into the wrong hands to begin with? GOLDFEIN: I think there's a lot of blame to go around when we reach 100,000 deaths. And I think our focus is on let's look at doing the things that we do that we know how to do that will make a difference.

We'll leave law enforcement to law enforcement. But for now, as the saying goes, people can't recover if they're dead. And so, that's our focus. How do we get them to a place where they can make safer choices for themselves?

SANCHEZ: We're going to continue following this story and make sure that we check in with you. Please keep us apprised of any new details you learn in the case.

Ronda Goldfein, thank you so much for the time.

GOLDFEIN: Thank you for your interest.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): So, government shutdown may have been averted. But lawmakers are facing another looming deadline.


PAUL: What standing in the way of addressing the debt ceiling and other must-pass legislation? That's next. Stay close.


SANCHEZ: Lawmakers on Capitol Hill need to act on some key pieces of legislation soon. Congress did avert a government shutdown this past week by voting to fund the government through February. But that's not the only issue lawmakers have to deal with.

PAUL: Yes. Congressional reporter Daniella Diaz is with us on Capitol Hill right now. Daniella, good to see you. Talk to us about where things stand at the moment.

DANIELLA DIAZ, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER (on camera): Boris, Christi, now that Congress has averted the shutdown, at least for now, all eyes turn to the next priority they need to address, of course, the debt ceiling, which right now, the nation is set to default on its debt by December 15th. It's a major priority they have to address.

Right now, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell have been having discussions behind closed doors about what they might be able to do on this issue.

However, neither have really shown any hints about what plan they -- what they plan to take -- what steps they plan to take to address this issue.


DIAZ: Now, Senator Schumer has not ruled out using the budget reconciliation process to address the debt ceiling, but that would require the consent of all 100 senators to pull off. And that would also require Democrats to put a price tag on where they want to raise the debt ceiling, which could be very politically damaging for Democrats ahead of the 2022 midterms. Of course, remember, Democrats, want to keep their majority.

Now, aside from the debt ceiling, they also have to address the National Defense Authorization Act, this must-pass bill that really sets the priority for Pentagon spending that is stalled in the Senate because of one senator right now.

Senator Marco Rubio, Republican from Florida, who wants to add an amendment that would punish China over what the U.S. has called a genocide against Muslim minorities in the country, of course, which China denies.

Now, Democrats and Republicans are rejecting this demand by Rubio to add this amendment, because they say it violates a constitutional requirement that legislation raise revenue -- that raises revenue, excuse me, originate in the House. So, that is tricky there too.

And I haven't even mentioned the Build Back Better Act, which is also stalled in the Senate, as two moderate Democratic senators, Senator Joe Manchin and Senator Kyrsten Sinema, continue to negotiate with leadership about what the Senate version of this massive $2 trillion bill that would expand the nation's social safety net would look like.

So, the bottom line here being, lots of work ahead for lawmakers here on Capitol Hill these next couple of weeks, and we'll see how this plays out because they do plan to recess for Christmas.

Christi, Boris?

PAUL: All right, good to know. Daniella Diaz, thank you so much.

SANCHEZ: Thanks, Daniella.

Still ahead, addressing threads in orbits. Up next, how the U.S. is trying to play catch up in 21st-century space race?



SANCHEZ: Vice President Kamala Harris hosted the Biden administration's first National Space Council meeting this week, bringing together leaders from across the government to discuss some of the opportunities and threats the United States faces beyond our planet.

This comes just weeks after Russia's test of an anti-satellite weapon left more than 1,500 pieces of debris in Earth's orbit. Harris, calling that action irresponsible and addressing its broader implications. Listen to this.


KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Without clear norms for the responsible use of space, we stand the real risk of threats to our national and global security.


SANCHEZ: Joining us this morning to dive deeper into those threats is Josh Rogin of The Washington Post. He wrote an op-ed this week titled: A shadow war in space is heating up fast. He's also the author of Chaos Under Heaven, detailing the Trump administration's relations with China, which is another major player in this new space race. And that's actually where I want to start, Josh.

Good morning, and thanks for joining us. A top space force general told you this week that China could overtake the United States as the number one power in space by the end of the decade. Are lawmakers in Washington doing enough to secure U.S. interests in space?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (on camera): Well, good morning, Boris.

Well, everybody remembers in 2018, when President Trump announced the Space Force and a lot of people made fun of it mostly because the logo looks like the one from Star Trek and everything. But as it turns out, it probably was a pretty good idea. Because when I interviewed the space force general who's the in charge of this stuff, he said that there are satellites are getting attacked by adversaries every single day.

And we only see it when the Russians blow up a satellite with a missile. But Russia and China are attacking our satellites with lasers, other non-kinetic R.F. jammers, cyber-attacks, they have these satellites that go up to the other satellites, and they have a grappling hook. And sometimes they just grab them and chuck them out of the sky.

And we can't see all of this on the ground, but it's all happening so much that these senior officials are really worried about it. To answer your question, no, we're not doing enough. And the point that General Thompson was making was that, hey, if China can build satellites and fill them twice as fast as we can, which is this current state right now, by the end of the decade, they'll have more than us, and then they'll control things like global positioning, our -- how do you get your cable? How did your Waze work on your car? All that kind of stuff.

Not to mention the military stuff. It could be a real competition. And, you know, diplomacy would be great. But until that happens, the race is on.

SANCHEZ: And Josh, bring this down to earth for us, so to speak.


SANCHEZ: Because if China or Russia become the dominant power in space, that has enormous implications, some of which you laid out, obviously, Russia, with its potential incursion into Ukraine, a threat at that point, China in the South China Sea, this could portend for a shake-up in global dominance for decades to come. ROGIN: Well, that's exactly right. And again, just because we can't see it, it doesn't mean there's not a battle going on right now. Some of its military, some of its intelligence, some of its just the things that we use to do business and live our lives.

So, we have to think that, and if as tensions rise with both of these countries, if there was a war, whoever would control space would win that war because there's no military on Earth that can operate without satellites.


ROGIN: But even if there is never a war, do we really want our GPS? Do we really want our international communication systems dependent on our adversaries? Is that a really good idea? And then, the space debris thing is a real thing. We've got space stations that are constantly ducking out in the way of garbage flying at them.

And you know, I hear what Vice President Harris is saying. She is saying that we need to have sort of arms control in space, we need to have rules of the road. And I think that the Biden administration is going to try to do that for all of our benefit.

But I don't think the Chinese and Russians are really on board with that, at least not at the moment. They are building fast. Now, arms race is not a great idea. An arms race has risks, an arms race is dangerous. But the race is on and we're either in it to win it or we're not.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Josh, I want to ask you about another op-ed, you had this week talking about Congress needing to act on Xi Jinping's genocide. And this is about the Uighurs, obviously, something that you have reported on extensively.

Senator Marco Rubio this week held up the passage of a key defense bill. He wants to add an amendment that would restrict the imports of Chinese goods made by Uighurs in forced-labor camps. It's a policy that has bipartisan support, yet lawmakers haven't found a way to get it passed. What is at stake here? And where do you think this procedural battle might ultimately lead?

ROGIN: Right, I heard your great reporter talk about this. But it's really not a procedural issue. It's really not about does it create revenue or not. Because the House passed this bill last year. The Senate passed this bill in July.

If Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden wanted to pass it, they could do it today. We could stop forced labor from coming to this country, but our leaders are arguing over procedural issues.

It's a terrible example of our government and our Congress turning away from a crime in progress, where millions of people are put into camps, and I hope that they'll reverse themselves and pass it soon.

SANCHEZ: And hopefully, a genocide that will get a lot more attention as we get closer to the Winter Olympics coming up in Beijing at the beginning of next year.

ROGIN: Exactly.

SANCHEZ: Josh Rogin, appreciate your reporting and your time as always. Thanks.

ROGIN: Anytime.

PAUL: There's more ahead NEW DAY. First, though, Parkinson's isn't just a disease for the elderly. Nearly 10 percent of Parkinson's patients get it before the age of 50.

So, meet one man who took his diagnosis and fought back in today's "THE HUMAN FACTOR".


JIMMY CHOI, PARKINSON'S ADVOCATE: When I was first diagnosed with Parkinson's, I was only 27 years old. I was in shock. I figured, if I just ignored it, it would just go away. My name is Jimmy Choi and I am a five-time competitor on American Ninja Warrior.

I just got married. We had all kinds of dreams. Over the next eight years, all of my symptoms started to progress. The tremors got worse, the rigidity got worse, I was constantly losing my balance. And then one day when I was walking down the stairs with my son, the two of us fell, and knew that I had to make a change.

And I finally got myself into a clinical trial involving exercise, and I noticed that I felt better. So, I started adding more activity in my life. I would try to just get outside and just walk and just keep adding every day trying to do a little bit more.

That walk became a jog, the jogging became running. So, by April 2012, I ran the Chicago Marathon. Even though I was getting stronger, Parkinson's never goes away. I'm simply preparing my body so that it's better at handling these symptoms.

When my body is cramping, I'm have a better chance of pulling myself out of that cramp.

With America Ninja Warrior, it's actually my daughter that got me into it. And this year, I've completed my fifth season. Today, I'm an advocate for Parkinson's research. My goal is to help encourage others to be more active, to make themselves stronger. You don't have to be an American Ninja Warrior. You don't have to run marathons. Just find something that you enjoy doing.


ANNOUNCER: "THE HUMAN FACTOR" brought to you by Pfizer. Breakthroughs that change patients' lives. Visit FINDYOURMBCVOICE.COM to hear more from Meredith Vieira and the inspiring men and women living with NBC.



PAUL: I'm going to say this. There is a blizzard warning in Hawaii.

Let me say it again because you're going, what the heck are you talking about?


PAUL: There is a blizzard warning in Hawaii.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Joining us live from the CNN Weather Center is meteorologist Allison Chinchar. Allison, I never thought I would ask anyone this. How much snow is Hawaii supposed to get?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST (on camera): It's actually going to be quite a lot. Now, I want to emphasize, it's going to be isolated to just the mountain peaks on the Big Island. Now, they actually get snow there. Almost every single year. Blizzard warnings not quite as common.

In fact, it's been over 3-1/2 years since they had their last blizzard warning on the Big Island of Hawaii. They are expecting up to a foot of snow across this area. Elsewhere, flood watches because it's obviously going to be warmer, a little bit lower in elevation. But we're talking a lot of rain here.

It's also going to be a pretty substantial wind. That's where the blizzard part comes in. You've got some of these areas that could be dealing with 80 to even up to 100-mile per hour winds at the peak. Those are going to be the gusts, the sustained winds slightly less than that.

Rainfall, again, widespread, four to six inches. But some of these areas not out of the question to get 10 inches or more. And snow, again, likely up around a foot of snow.

There are parts of Hawaii that have actually had more snow so far this winter than places in the lower 48, including Denver. Yet, to have their first measurable snowfall, only about eight percent of the lower 48 has any snow cover on it right now.


CHINCHAR: But that may change this weekend. We've got another storm system making its way across the northern tier, likely to dump some pretty decent snow starting tomorrow.