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New Day Saturday

Justice Department Will Not Prosecute Two Former Trump Officials; Former Trump Adviser Peter Navarro Indicted For Contempt Of Congress; Biden Calls To Reinstante Assault Weapons Ban Or At Least Raise Age To Buy To 21; Frustration Grows Over Shifting Narratives About Uvalde Shooting; Formula Shortage Highlights Economic Disparities. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired June 04, 2022 - 07:00   ET



CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we are always so grateful to have your company on this Saturday morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. I'm Christi Paul.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Great to be with you, Christi. I'm Boris Sanchez. It is Saturday, June 4th. We appreciate you starting your weekend with us. We begin with a possible blow to the January 6th Committee and its efforts to subpoena witnesses. The Department of Justice says that it will not indict two former Trump officials found in contempt by the panel.

PAUL: The committee itself calls the decision not to prosecute former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, and Former Deputy Chief of Staff Dan Scavino, "puzzling." This is ahead of the panel's first public hearing that starts next Thursday, and that's when new evidence and witness testimony is expected to be unveiled.

SANCHEZ: Let's bring in CNN National Security Reporter Zach Cohen with details. Zach, walk us through this decision against prosecuting Meadows and Scavino and how this could impact the investigation?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, good morning, Boris and Christi, so the committee is clearly frustrated by the Department of Justice's decision not to pursue criminal charges against Dan Scavino and Mark Meadows -- two witnesses that they've really considered and have cast as key to their investigation.

Now, the committee put out a pretty strongly worded statement last night, in response to the news that DOJ would not pursue criminal contempt charges, it reads: "We are puzzled, or we find the decision to reward Mark Meadows and dance Covino for their continued attack on the rule of law puzzling."

And it goes on to say that they've argued against Mark Meadows his claim that he has, is entitled to absolute immunity, and it closes out with a common refrain that no one is above the law. Now, the committee is taking issue with the idea that Mark Meadows, as the Former President's Chief of staff, was entitled to essentially immunity as he's argued in court because of his senior level, senior level position, the White House; and Scavino has argued the same. And clearly, the Department of Justice felt like this, these two cases were complicated by that.

Now, they're also complicated by the fact that both Scavino and meadows did cooperate with the committee or try to, to some extent. Now Meadows, we know handed over thousands of text messages to the committee. Scavino did engage in negotiations with the committee before ultimately defying their subpoena. But the Department of Justice clearly found that there was not enough to pursue criminal charges in these two cases, even though it has against other former Trump advisors previously.

PAUL: This news about Meadows and Scavino, though, came forward the same day former White House Trade Adviser Peter Navarro was indicted. So, a lot of people might be wondering why was Navarro indicted? And really, what is the consequence for him if he's convicted?

COHEN: Yes, unlike Meadows and Scavino, Navarro really made no effort and showed no sign of being willing to cooperate with the committee. His defiance was actually pretty brazen. Now, he becomes the second former Trump advisor to be indicted on charges of contempt of Congress. The first one was, of course, Steve Bannon.

Now, Navarro is also different from the Bannon case. Navarro served four years in the White House and the Department of Justice is clearly making a statement here are saying you cannot defy a congressional subpoena, subpoena outright in the way that Navarro did. And if you do, you'll face criminal charges. And if convicted, Navarro faces some pretty steep consequences. Now, each count he was charged with two counts of contempt of Congress; each count carries up to one year in prison, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines.

PAUL: All right, Zach Cohen, good to have you with us this morning. Thank you.

So, overnight, the White House was lit in orange. You see it there. This is for National Gun Violence Awareness Day. Now, President Biden said he's been briefed constantly on negotiations on Capitol Hill when it comes to passing gun reform.

SANCHEZ: Remember, in a primetime address, the president attempted to put pressure on Congress to take action on gun violence in the United States. Let's take you to where the president is now in Delaware. And CNN is Jasmine Wright, who's traveling with President Biden. Jasmine, Biden laid out a series of measures that he wants to see Congress pass. Walk us through what those are.


JASMINE WRIGHT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the, the President did lay out some policy prescriptions, but we know here Boris at the mood is cautiously optimistic. The President has been here before, and a lot of his staff that is now at the White House really in these moments after Sandy Hook where our discussion sort of like this started happening, and ultimately, nothing came about it. So, the President is clear-eyed that that is a real outcome that could

happen, but still hoping that something can get done. We know that the President here is really motivated by the fact that he wants to see something done. We heard it Thursday, in his remarks where he really asked the country what more can they take before something actually happens? Take a listen.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Guns are the number one killer of children in the United States of America, the number one killer -- more than car accidents, more than cancer. Over the last two decades, more school-aged children have died from guns than on duty police officers and active-duty military combined. Think about that, for God's sake. How much more carnage are we willing to accept?


WRIGHT: So there, a very emotional president. And back to your original question Boris, about what he wants to see, he really made out a wish list, really starting with assault weapons. He said that he wanted to see an assault weapon bans and bans on high-capacity magazines. He said that if Congress can't do that, then at least they should raise, raise the age from 18 to 21.

And he also said that he wants Congress to limit how many rounds can go into an actual gun. Now, he said he wants Congress to put in place red flag laws and safe storage laws really trying to keep the guns out of the hands of felons. And he wants to see Congress repeal the liability clause that gun manufacturers get really shielding them from any negative outcomes, if families or folks who are victims of gun violence want to take against the company, and he also wants Congress to address mental health.

So, that is a steep aspirational list. And it's not really in tune of what we know that the Congress is really able or willing at this point to make. But he says that if Congress does not get this done, Boris, he thinks that American voters should be outraged, and they should take that outrage to the ballot making this their main ticket issue in November. So, we have really a very, very motivated president trying to put the pressure on Congress, trying to see something get done.

PAUL: Aspirational, no doubt. Jasmine Wright, we appreciate it. Thank you.

So, we're getting some new, pretty troubling details in the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, as though they aren't all really troubling. But a Texas State Senator saying the incident commander on the scene that day, School Police Chief Pete Arredondo did not have a police radio on him at the time of the attack. Arredondo decided against reaching that classroom where the shooter was costing lives.

SANCHEZ: And now, we've heard from the school district saying that no students will ever return to the school where 19 children and two teachers were killed. Let's take you to Uvalde now, and CNN's Camila Bernal. Camila, there's growing frustration over the lack of accurate information that's coming from investigators.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, so much frustration here. And look, it's been more than two weeks since the shooting. And we still do not know why or how the shooter was able to be in that classroom for more than an hour before he was shot killed. And so, there's frustration over the lack of information over the corrections, the back and forth, all of the things that we still do not know, because we're still asking authorities and they're still not giving us that information.

And so, a lot of that frustration was seen yesterday during that first school board meeting since the massacre: parents who were upset, who are angry who say they want to know who is going to keep their children safe while they are in school, parents who said that their children just do not want to go back to school.

So, two notable things coming from that meeting. One, you mentioned that the children and teachers will not return to Robb Elementary. The other thing happening is that there was no action taken against Pete Arredondo, who was the incident commander.

As you mentioned, the state senator saying he did not have a radio. The question is: did he know that there were still children who were calling 9-1-1? According to the New York Times in the transcript that they obtained, there was one girl who was essentially saying she was scared, saying she did not want to die.

She described seeing bodies and saying that her teacher was shot. So, all of this is part of the reason why parents and lawmakers are asking for accountability. Here is state Senator Roland Gutierrez.


STATE SEN. ROLAND GUTIERREZ (D-TX): The folks that are accountable to, accountable to the legislature or the state troopers. I asked for a report as to how many there were in that hallway and what time. When I got an oral statement from law enforcement was there any (INAUDIBLE), there was between two and 13 officers in that hallway.

Why in the world did they kowtow to Mr. Arredondo or anybody else suggesting that he is the incident commander? None of this makes sense to me. And with all of that, little children might have died, they could have been saved.



BERNAL: And in addition to all of that, you also have the trauma. CNN speaking to the attorney of the teacher that was accused of leaving that door open, Amelia Marin, authorities corrected themselves saying that she closed the door, but it did not lock. Her attorney is saying she is still shaking and is having to see a specialist. They're considering civil action against the gun manufacturer. But of course, that trauma still remains. Christi, and Boris. SANCHEZ: And we'll speak to State Senator Roland Gutierrez later this morning to talk about those inconsistencies. Camila Bernal, thank you so much for your reporting. Let's dig deeper now on the law enforcement angle with CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Andrew McCabe, he's actually a Former Deputy Director of the FBI.

Andrew, we appreciate you sharing part of your Saturday with us. In the heat of the moment, as you will know, witnesses often report inaccurate things. But at this point, 10 days out from, 11 days out from this incident, there's still so many inconsistencies from police.

We heard that the shooter was confronted by somebody outside the school, a resource officer. He was not. They said that a teacher propped the door open. She did not. They said that he was -- the shooter was wearing body armor. He apparently wasn't. And the list goes on. Have you ever confronted an investigation like this? There are so many corrections having to be made?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: This is really unique in that respect, Boris. You're absolutely right that in the heat of the moment, in the immediate aftermath of a critical incident, the information you get is largely from witnesses. And much of it ends up being inaccurate, and you figure those things out in the minutes and hours and days that follows.

But at this point, especially when you have a detailed record of established facts, things that are established by video coverage, or telephone calls to 9-1-1 that are, that are date and time stamped communications between other people -- those things all set up indelible markers, if you will. And that becomes the foundation for your timeline, the structure for all the -- everything you know about the event that follows.

So, really at this point, we should have very good clarity. But unfortunately, in this terrible, terrible miscommunication by the folks involved here, we just, we just really don't know a lot of what happened.

SANCHEZ: I asked this over and over from folks that were on the ground in Uvalde and other law enforcement experts and there doesn't appear to, to be a satisfactory answer, but I wanted to get your thoughts on this: what would lead an incident commander in that situation? What factors might lead them to decide that while they're hearing kids in the school crying for help, this is actually a barricaded suspect scenario and we should approach it differently than we would an active shooter?

MCCABE: Well, first, there's no explanation for how an incident commander could have reasonably concluded that on these facts. The facts that we do know at this point. But just to back up a step, a barricaded subject is when police arrive at a scene and someone is prohibiting them from entering. They're typically armed. And what they're trying to do is resist the police coming in and arresting them. But they're not putting anyone in danger during that time.

Even when you have a barricaded subject, if you develop a belief that a hostage or somebody inside might be in danger, you send a tactical team and to conduct a tactical resolution. This was never a barricaded subject, situation. We know that this gunman continued to shoot for the hour or more that he was in the room while police were huddled in the hallway outside the room. You have shooting going on, you know that people are continuing -- are in continuous danger. That is an active shooter and that those teams should have been sent in immediately.

SANCHEZ: And what's confounding is that we recently heard the Uvalde Mayor say that a negotiator tried calling the gunman during the attack but that the gunman didn't answer? It doesn't sound like that's standard protocol for these kinds of situations.

MCCABE: It certainly isn't but it seemingly nothing about this is. Standard protocol comes from a system called the Incident Command System, which is communicated by the Department of Homeland Security, every police entity trains on the same system. It requires that you establish incident command on site with an incident commander who has access to all the information, is able to make quick decisions based on incoming intelligence. We still don't know even where that was.

We know that Chief Arredondo was the Incident Commander, doesn't explain why there may have been a negotiator trying to call the shooter from the funeral parlor across the street. That makes no sense whatsoever. We also don't know how did they know what his phone number was? Did they know who he was at that point early in the, in the in the attack? It just raises many more questions and answers. And unfortunately, now we're not getting answers of any sort from the authorities involved.


SANCHEZ: That's a really good point. How did they know his number? You know, even the appearance of anything but transparency, strange the trust that this community has in law enforcement, do you think it's time for Chief Arredondo and some of these other officials to come forward and set the record straight?

MCCABE: Well, there's certainly a moral, a requirement to do that. You're absolutely right, it is hard to imagine that this community will ever be able to reestablish a sense of trust with the officials that were involved in this incident. It seems that the chief is, is maybe more concerned with his own self-preservation, legally and otherwise, and has decided not to say anything.

It seems he's not continuing to talk to the Texas Rangers or certainly to the media. So, you know, they look like they're in a firm lockdown right now on information. And it will probably not be until we hear from the Justice Department or Texas authorities when they come out with their final report, who knows whenever that'll be?

SANCHEZ: Yes. We hope that those families get answers and that whoever needs to be held accountable is. Andrew McCabe, thanks again for joining us.

MCCABE: Thanks, Boris. PAUL: So, we're hearing from authorities in California that a suspect is in custody after allegedly stabbing three employees at a Los Angeles County Hospital, then barricading himself inside the building. The victims: two nurses and a physician, were taken to the nearest Trauma Center where one person is still in critical condition this morning, not immediately clear what the suspect's motive was but police say it appears he was seeking some type of treatment.

And across the country, you know parents have been struggling so hard to find formula. The nationwide shortage hitting some communities harder than others. We're going to talk to one organization and find out what they're doing.

Also, high winds, heavy rain, potential storm surge. Yes, it's that time of year. Millions of people right now under storm warnings in parts of Florida, Cuba, and the Bahamas. That mess that you're seeing on the screen? We'll give you the very latest on it in a moment.



PAUL: It has been downright frightening and exhaustive for parents who need baby formula for their children. The first week in May, remember, the nationwide out of stock rate for baby formula was about 40 percent. Well, at the end of the month, even after the Biden administration took steps to ease shortages, the rate had shot up to 74 percent. Now, the Abbott nutrition plan, the center of this crisis, is set to reopen today. That's the good news.

Here's the thing: It's going to take weeks for the product to get to stores. The baby formula shortage does highlight to the country's economic and racial disparities. And I want to bring in Jamie Lackey here, she's the CEO of Helping Mamas.

Jamie, thank you for being with us. I understand that you've had some pretty eye-opening moments at some of your distribution events. Talk to us about the desperation that people have and the walls that families are hitting, just trying to get some of this formula now.

JAMIE LACKEY, CEO, HELPING MAMAS: Yes, I think desperation is the absolute right word. And there's a lot of panic, you know, we had a mom come through our distributions -- so just the other day, she had gone to 15 different stores with her child in the car and couldn't find a single can of formula.

So, thankfully, when she came through our event, we did have one for he, and we were able to get her through about another week. You know, we've had another mom show up before our offices even opened the other day, just desperate for a formula that she needed for her daughter that was a preemie. And thankfully again, we have that available, but it's definitely getting hard and people are definitely afraid.

PAUL: So, when we say that this particularly impacts low-income communities disproportionately, describe for us to amplify difficulties in these communities for people. LACKEY: Sure, what we see in our low-income communities as they tend to be harder hit than other communities. For example, they don't have access to great transportation to really be able to go to store, to store, to store. They may be working hourly jobs where they can't take off, and they may, you know, just not have access to those big box stores.

They're not in those low-income communities the same way they are in other communities. So, there's just a general lack of access. So, while it's super exciting that the plant is coming back on today, I still feel like for our low-income communities, it'll be a trickle- down effect before we see that relief.

PAUL: Well, I was going to say, I think the latest timeline that we have gotten has been about two and a half weeks before we see more cans on the store shelves, June 20th I believe is the date. What does that mean and what other options are there for people who need to feed their children?

LACKEY: This has been one of the hardest crisis's I feel like that we face, because there's not a lot of great options, and there's not a lot of great resources out there -- when there's no formula, there's no formula. What we've seen is moms coming together and sharing you know, on Facebook on social media, hey, I have this can. We've had groups to dry for us with new moms that are no longer using formula and bringing it to our office for us.

We're asking families if you have unopened unexpired formula to get it to us or get it to a food bank in your community because we are literally getting calls every single day. And it's terrifying not to know if you're going to be able to feed your child again. And before there was a date when this was going to, you know, somewhat resolved not knowing when it was going to end, add it to that panic.


PAUL: One of the things I think that adds to the panic and the frustration, particularly are other people saying, well, why don't you just breastfeed? Can you just remind us why that's not possible for every mother to do so?

LACKEY: I mean, I want to remind everybody that and that's one, it's a personal choice for people. But not everybody is able to. Some folks aren't able to produce enough milk for their child and they need to supplement. Some children have special needs and are able to, and they have to have a special formula.

And some families, you know, some moms are working at low wage jobs. Like we said before, we're having access to a great place to break and take time off to pump if that's what they need to do isn't always available. So, it's not an option for everybody. We get it's a great option for those that can, but for everybody, it's not always an option.

PAUL: When you say that other moms are sharing, I mean, that may be one of the bright spots here because there's so much panic in this and yet somebody's saying listen, I want to help you because I don't want something happen to your child. Do you know are there a lot of parents out there who, early on, stocked up and are able to share some of their supply?

LACKEY: We've seen that. We've seen some folks that were able to get time at the beginning or you know, talk to some moms that thought they were going to deliver and might have some extra before they delivered their child and then went ahead and have been donating it, just knowing that people need it right now.

And I think that's what's so fantastic is what we love about our community, Helping Mamas, is that women come together to support each other and this has just been a prime example of that. No one wants a child to go unfed, and we're you know everybody's doing everything they can to make sure that doesn't happen.

PAUL: Really good point. Jamie Lackey, thank you so much for being with us and helping us understand this a little bit better, and thank you for the work to do. It's really important.

LACKEY: Thank you for having me, of course.

SANCHEZ: A major storm system is hitting Florida right now, and it could bring flooding and storm surge. The latest forecast ahead after a quick break.



SANCHEZ: Right now, some 20 million people are under tropical storm warnings in the southern half of Florida, Cuba, and the Bahamas.

Here is a live look at Miami for you. You can see how choppy the water is there. Experts say the storm is set to bring strong winds, heavy rain, and flooding, and it could become the first named storm of this year's Atlantic hurricane season.

PAUL: And we have CNN's Carlos Suarez in Fort Lauderdale, CNN's Tyler Mauldin live in the Weather Center for us.

Carlos, I want to start with you. We understand flash flood warnings have already been issued for parts of Florida, and we can see how high the water is getting there. Talk to us about what you're witnessing right now.

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. The rain out here really has not led up in the past 24 hours. Some parts of South Florida are waking up this morning to over eight inches of rain, and as you can see, the flooding is the main concern out here.

We're on Fort Lauderdale Beach, where the flooding really isn't too bad. But this portion of A1A has undergone a number of upgrades as well as a new drainage system that was put in place.

However that is not stopping from some drivers getting stalled out here. They're having a bit of a difficult time trying to get portions of A1A cleared out. Police have been asking folks to avoid exactly what you're looking at.

It is a whole different story down in Miami, where things there are a whole lot worse. The flooding there is quite bad with parts of downtown Miami as well as the Financial District seeing seven to eight inches of rain in the past 24 hours.

We're told that the city's three main water pumps went online last night. But as you can see they are all having a difficult time getting all of that water out. In fact, Miami Fire Rescue, they've got a team of firefighters and six elevated trucks. They're going around town, looking for folks that might be stranded in their cars, all in an effort to get them out.

Officials throughout the southern part of the state of Florida have spent the past week, warning folks that this was really going to be a rain event. And the story has held across Alligator Alley in Naples.

And in Fort Myers, folks there had been seeing five to seven inches of rain, as what's left of this system makes its way just to the east of us.

Right now, we expect some of this bad weather to clear by the afternoon. And the number of people without power at least in Miami Dade and Broward is at about 5,000 people. Guys.

SANCHEZ: Carlos, standby

Let's get to Tyler who is tracking the storm for us. Tyler, where is it now and where is it heading?

TYLER MAULDIN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's about 100 to 200 miles southwest of Miami right now. And it's a ragged mess on satellite imagery.

Unfortunately, the ragged mess of a tropical system is causing all kinds of havoc, with tropical downpours pushing across Florida leading to the flooding.

I mean, we've been dealing with rainfall since yesterday across the Keys and South Florida. The rain continues to stream up from south to north across the Keys, the Tri-County Area, as well as Southwest Florida.

Miami has picked up more than six inches of rainfall in the last 24 hours. There are areas here that have picked up nearly 10 inches of rainfall within the last 24 hours.

Of course, you know, we're at sea level here. So, that much rainfall is a recipe for disaster for that reason. And the fact that the rains not ending anytime soon, we continue with the Flood Watch across the southern half of the peninsula, and we do have a flood warning in effect for Northern Miami Dade County as well as Broward County here.

[07:35:03] MAULDIN: We expect on top of what we've already picked up an additional three inches or so. Some areas a little bit more than that over the next 24 to 48 hours as the system slowly moves to the north.

It's not just the flood threat though, we also have to watch for quick little isolated tornadoes and spin ups from the Treasure Coast all the way down to the southern tip of the peninsula. That's where today as the system departs.

Notice that it's a really slow-moving system. It is starting to speed up a little bit, but it's not going to be out of the area until we get to probably closer to midnight. And even when it does pull away, we'll continue with the daytime heating. And the winds trying to pull away from that system, we'll continue to see some thunderstorms flow down the peninsula.

So, that's just going to add a little insult to injury. Notice that it is -- it does have the state of Florida, and its rearview mirror by little closer to midnight, and then eventually it continues to pull away, and it peters out.

It is a fish storm once we get to Tuesday and Wednesday, and we no longer have to worry about it. In fact, no one on the east coast of the United States has to worry about it after about 8:00 or 9:00 tonight. Guys.

SANCHEZ: Tyler Mauldin, thanks for the update. To Carlos and his team, we hope they stay safe out there. Thanks so much.

SANCHEZ (voice-over): So, it was one of President Biden's campaign promises to cancel student loan debt for millions of people. Now, the administration is facing pressure to act. But the big question remains will the White House follow through?



PAUL: 40 minutes past the hour right now, and in the largest one-time discharge ever made by the Department of Education, the agency is canceling nearly $6 billion in student loan debt for more than half a million borrowers who attended the now defunct network of for profit schools known as Corinthian Colleges.

SANCHEZ: But President Biden is facing mounting pressure to do more as Democrats call on him to fulfil a campaign promise that he would cancel a minimum of $10,000 in student debt per person.

CNNs Adrienne Broaddus has this story for us.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vinessa Gabriell Russell.

VINESSA GABRIELL RUSSELL, RECENT COLLLEGE GRADUATE: It's been such a trial and tribulation. ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vinessa Russell the first in her family to earn a bachelor's degree. But she is also graduating with student loan debt.

RUSSELL: The last time I checked it was approximately 48,000. They come to find you.

BROADDUS: Russell says a debt collector called her while she was working.

RUSSELL: They asked for Vinessa and they're like, this is the debt collector basically collecting. We were trying to find you like, when are you, like, when are you going to pay your student debt?

At one point, Russell temporarily dropped out of school.

RUSSELL: I did have to leave Columbia and pay a balance that was due in order for me to go back.

BROADDUS: But she is not alone. Data shows there is about $1.6 trillion in federal student loan debt.

Tayvia Ridgeway wants a six-figure salary. But right now, she has nearly a six-figure student loan debt.

TAYVIA RIDGEWAY, COLLEGE JUNIOR: I'd be in the range of like 80 to 100k just based on my tuition rates right now.

BROADDUS: That's even after Tayvia became a resident advisor to cut down on her room and board costs.

RIDGEWAY: You should get a free education because you can't put a price on knowledge.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to make sure that everybody in this generation gets $10,000 knocked off of their student debt.

BROADDUS: On the campaign trail, Joe Biden promised to cancel $10,000 in student loan debt for each of the 43 million people with federal student loans.

Due to the pandemic, he did pause loan repayments until August 31st. But it is not clear if and when the White House will move forward with some form of permanent loan forgiveness despite pressure from fellow Democrats at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): You don't need Congress. All you need is the flick of a pen.

BROADDUS: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, pushing to cancel $50,000 of debt per borrower. Biden has rejected those calls.

BIDEN: I am not considering $50,000 debt reduction.

BROADDUS: The White House does say Biden is considering some debt forgiveness for those making up to $125,000.

Gabby Bach, like Ridgeway was a resident advisor. She calls it a broken campaign promise.

GABBY BACH, RECENT COLLEGE GRADUATE: I think this is something that Biden has promised and has something that I feel like he hasn't delivered on yet during the campaign or just knowing like that this is something that a lot of people who voted for him, that this was something that they wanted.

RIDGEWAY: I say it would only help a little bit. If anything, I'd want my full tuition covered. But you know, that's not the world we live in.

BROADDUS: Russell welcomes any relief.

RUSSELL: It would help me so much. It's like an emotional experience because it's taken me so long, and I almost gave up, and sorry, just thinking about it.


BROADDUS: And a year and a half into his presidency, Biden has canceled more than $17 billion in student loans. But that is tied to faulty loan practice investigations and institutions that no longer exist.

Adrienne Broaddus, CNN, Chicago.

PAUL: Adrienne, thank you.

Listen, don't forget to watch the new CNN original series, "WATERGATE: BLUEPRINT FOR A SCANDAL". It's tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. Here is a preview for you.



LESLEY STAHL, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, 60 MINUTES, CBS: Haldeman had that funny crew cut so he always looked like he was from another era. He had no humor, just the facts, man. That's the way he presented himself. Dark.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the questions that Parliament asked me was, can I be loyal to Richard Nixon? It struck me as a strange question, because I thought we were all on the same team.

ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The loyalty is about being a member of the group. That becomes the paramount value. If you're not loyal, then, you get kicked out of the group.

So, to maintain your tribal membership, you have to go along with whatever the leader says. And that's incredibly dangerous.

RICHARD NIXON, 37th PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A vice president, a member of the Cabinet, a member of Congress, who is a member of the president's party, he should always consider that he is dispensable and to do what a man wants.


PAUL (voice-over): You can watch more tomorrow at 9:00 right here on CNN. We'll be right back.



PAUL: Well, it was a win for Johnny Depp, but to some, it was a loss for victims of domestic violence. This high profile Depp-Amber Heard trial centered on that 2018 Washington Post op-ed written by Heard, in which she didn't named Depp, but she called herself a "public figure representing domestic abuse".

The jury found both Heard and Depp liable for defamation. In the lawsuits against each other, Depp was awarded $10 million in compensatory damages, 5 million in punitive damages. Heard will only receive $2 million in compensatory damages.

CEO of the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, Ruth Glenn, is with us here. Ruth, I'm so glad that you're here. You wrote something that struck me.

You said, it may seem counterintuitive -- I'm sorry, you said, I've been doing this work for 30 years, and we've had some high profile cases, but I've never seen anything like this.

This wasn't just about the believability of one or the other at this point. But it's about the triggering effect for survivors -- domestic violence survivors, who are watching and reading the mockery and the derision of Amber Heard and the claims that were made.

So, what has been for you the most jolting and damaging here?


I think that what's been most joking and damaging are two things. When the trial started, this was to be a defamation trial, which it quickly turned into more of domestic violence trial and a court proceeding.

And it, from the very beginning, it was very jolting that there were no experts on domestic violence there to talk about the dynamics and elements of domestic violence, and what does it really look like.

I think most surprising was also what we would call the vitriol that occurred, and particularly against Miss Heard. But there were -- there were other -- others of us that also endured that vitriol before there was even a verdict.

And it was a little disturbing, I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. PAUL: Yes, the name calling, the means. And as a survivor myself, I know that there's so much shame that you carry.


PAUL: Because you feel like you allowed it to happen to some degree. And there are so few people that you would open up to even talk about it, because it's such a hard thing to admit that it's happening to you.

So, when we talk about what we're left with right now, I understand that there are even organizations that are helping survivors that feel threatened.

GLENN: Yes, we have -- we've only heard anecdotally, but we understand that there are already survivors and victims of domestic violence being threatened with getting at Deep.

We also are very aware that this was a high profile case in which we got to see what can happen to victims and survivors when they do come forward. And we're talking about other systems that are used by abuse of persons to continue that power and control over a victim or survivor of domestic violence.

PAUL: So, if you don't believe heard, experts have acknowledged across the board, this was an abusive toxic relationship on both sides here. With that said, where do we as a society go now that the topic of abuse has been -- it's been muddied and dismissed to some degree?

GLENN: I think that's an excellent question. And my hope is -- and my intent, and our intent at the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence is to continue to help people understand the dynamics of domestic violence.


GLENN: And why this particular instance was, in some ways, a sharp look at that, and by that, I mean the control and the manipulation and the viciousness, all of those things that occurred during this.

But also take this opportunity to dispel some of that and help people understand that it is far more complex than that. There is no such thing as an abusive relationship that blames the victim. There's no such thing as mutual abuse. And the list goes on and on.

So, though this was very disheartening, and particularly with the vitriol that came out of it, our hope is that we can use that as a turning point to continue to have a conversation about what domestic violence is, and what it isn't.

PAUL: And we hope so. Yes. Yes, and what it isn't.

Ruth Glenn, thank you so much. We hope the same. We'll be right back.

GLENN: Thank you.

PAUL: Of course.