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New Day Sunday

Second Ebola Case Confirmed In U.S.; ISIS Gains Ground In Iraq And Syria

Aired October 12, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. So glad to have you with us today. I'm Christi Paul.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's 6:00 here on the east coast. Yes, and we need to begin with some breaking news this morning. Texas health officials have now confirmed a second case of Ebola here in the U.S.

BLACKWELL: The infected patient is a health care worker in Dallas who treated Thomas Eric Duncan. Duncan died Wednesday after contracting the virus in Liberia.

PAUL: According to Texas health officials, here's what we know, the worker reported a low fever Friday night and was isolated at that point for testing. The hospital confirmed the preliminary test results overnight and said this, quote, "We knew a second case could be a reality and we've been preparing for the possibility. We're broadening our team in Dallas and working with extreme diligence to prevent further spread."

BLACKWELL: Officials interviewed the patient and are now trying to identify anyone else who may have been exposed. CNN's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, has been in Dallas covering the Ebola fight and she joins us now by phone.

Elizabeth, they say that a second case they knew could be a possibility, could be a reality, do we know exactly what the preparations from the diagnosis of Thomas Eric Duncan to this point have been?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I think that what health care workers have been trying to figure out ever since this first case is what do we do if there is a next case in terms of we need a whole new crew of people now to do contact tracing.

Contact tracing is when you ask the person who is sick, who did you have contact with while you were contagious? Then you need to keep track of those people for 21 days. So they're already doing this for 48 of Duncan's contacts.

And now they need to do this for all of this worker's contacts. There is not easy thing, keeping track of large numbers of people, taking their temperature twice a day, making sure they don't get in their car and leave town, all of that is a lot of work. There is also a staff of people from the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta who are Dallas helping with this for Mr. Duncan's contacts. Now they need to do the same thing for this health care worker's contacts.

PAUL: Elizabeth, are you surprised when you heard that there was a second case, to hear that it was somebody who treated him and not his fiancee or children who he was in direct contact with for several days prior to being admitted to the hospital?

COHEN: You know, I'm not surprised. All of us have been into the hospital at some point. Just to think about how close doctors, nurses, other health care workers get to you when they treat you, they're touching you, they're right there.

You know, they're likely coming in contact with your bodily fluids. So this is not surprising to me. I think that what I'm hoping the hospital is doing right now is thinking through what kind of contact and on what date which is the really important part did this worker have their contact with Duncan?

If this was on that first visit that Duncan had to the hospital, this is yet more evidence that hospitals need to, one, that when someone comes in with a fever, take the travel history and you need to take precautions right away to protect your staff because, as we know, they didn't ask.

If this happened once they knew he had Ebola, then there is something wrong with the system they're using to protect their workers. We don't know which one it is.

BLACKWELL: How is this second case, this person's relationship to Duncan as a health care worker, change how the workers at this hospital will now be caring for this colleague essentially?

COHEN: You know, again, it depends when the contact was. If this health care worker got sick from the first time Duncan went in, when they didn't know they were looking at Ebola, I don't know that it changes anything about the kind of care that this worker will get.

If the health care worker got sick when everyone knew that Duncan had Ebola, that means that there's something wrong with how they are protecting workers, something wrong with the gear that they're wearing, the way they're putting it on, the way they're taking it off.

It indicates that there could be a problem there. I'd be interested to know, it just says in this press release, I'm reading it, you can read it along with me guys and check me, I don't believe it says that this person has been hospitalized at Texas Health Presbyterian.

It just says that they've been hospitalized. I would definitely want to know where this person has been hospitalized. Is this person at the same hospital Duncan was in? The same place where the worker worked or did this person go to a different hospital?

PAUL: Yes, that's a really good point, actually. As you're reading through this press release with us as well, is there anything specific that stands out to you? I mean, I'm reading that we knew a second case could be a reality. We've been preparing for the possibility. Should we believe there could be a third case?

COHEN: Yes. I mean, that's the issue with Ebola or any infectious disease is that it's not just that one case is the issue. It's who did that original case gives it to? This is very concerning. This is very, very concerning.

I really hope that they do a really diligent job with contact tracing. The CDC works towards that goal. They train people to make it happen and you just really, really have great hope for their contact tracing process.

You hope they get all of the health care worker's contacts. You hope they follow up thoroughly. Because you miss one person and it's concrete that the CDC says they go out and start a whole new line of transmission.

So that's what comes to my mind is they better do a 110 percent thorough job of tracing Duncan's contacts and tracing this person's contacts.

PAUL: Well, because I think what makes this different, don't you think, than Duncan is we know that Thomas Eric Duncan contracted it in West Africa. This is the first case that was contracted here in the U.S.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

COHEN: That's exactly right. It's similar with the nurse who contracted it from the priest. So you're right. This is the first time that someone has contracted Ebola in the United States. I think sometimes that when we first heard about Ebola, it seemed like this strange exotic disease in a faraway land. What this shows you is that we are not immune.

BLACKWELL: All right. Elizabeth, stay with us. We want to bring in David Sanders. He's an associate professor of biological sciences at Purdue University. He's with us on the phone as well.

Good to have you with us this morning. Unfortunately under these circumstances, I want to pick up where we left off there with the point that Christi and Elizabeth were discussing that this now is the first case of Ebola contracted here in the United States.

Is there some medical difference or is this just a psychological difference for people who are following what's happening with this virus?

DAVID SANDERS, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, PURDUE UNIVERSITY (via telephone): I think there is a difference because this is a transmission that occurred under circumstances where we hope it wouldn't occur. We know there are going to be people who are infected with Africa who are going to be traveling to other places. That we know will happen. We don't expect that our health workers are going to be infected. When I say we don't expect it, it is something that they are putting themselves at risk in treating such patients. And we understand that.

But in the past, when western containment has been put into place, there hasn't been transmission to western workers. It's extremely concerning. Again, I share the concern as to whether this occurred before the patient was identified as an Ebola patient or afterwards.

That's going to be a very important piece of information for us to evaluate how to go forward.

PAUL: David, are you concerned at all since this was contracted in the U.S. that it would be the exact same strain? What is the possibility of having different strains and having to treat different?

SANDERS: It's almost certainly the same Ebola. I mean, that's -- that's not a concern. It's going to be the Ebola strain that is the same.

PAUL: OK, just wondering too, do you know how many -- we talk about these experimental treatments and that those actually have helped many people. I think what is frightening to most people is the fact that Thomas Duncan was in the United States, who was being treated in the United States and he still died.

Do you know will these experimental treatments that we've been hearing about be something that is used on this next -- this second case?

SANDERS: I don't know in particular. I must say that the experimental treatments have had success in animals. They really haven't been tested thoroughly in humans. And I don't think we have enough information to be able to say whether any of them have or have not been effective now. We simply don't have numbers and the patient tracing to be able to make any definitive statements about that.

BLACKWELL: David, this press release we received from the CDC says that this person tested positive for Ebola in a preliminary test at a state public health laboratory. Can you compare and contrast the preliminary test and confirmed test? Is that just semantics or is a deeper differences?

SANDERS: I'm not sure what the test they use. It could be that they used a nucleic acid test and preliminary just means that they did it once and it was positive and they're going to be repeating it again. There are other possible tests.

But what it just says is that, again, as scientists, we're always careful about our statements and it's probably occurred once that they were able to figure out it was positive. They assure themselves this is a positive result. But it sounds likely that it's positive and it's going to stay positive.

PAUL: OK, that was I was going to ask. They say confirmatory testing will be conducted by the CDC in Atlanta. There's no chance, you think, that once they try to confirm it they can say, this was a mistake, it's not really Ebola.

SANDERS: No chance. As a scientist, there always a chance, but these analyses nowadays are pretty specific. And, you know, unless there was some kind of contamination, I don't know whether it's the same lab where they did the first analysis, which you know raises a possibility, very small possibility of contamination of the samples. But these we know are fairly robust. It will be reaffirmed once the CDC actually does their own independent analysis.

BLACKWELL: All right, I want to clarify something. The press release was from the Texas Department of State Health Services, not from CDC. Of course, we're waiting to get more from them. This is coming from the Texas Department of State Health Services.

This preliminary test proven that one additional person now tested positive for Ebola according to this testing that happened at the state public health laboratory in Austin.

David Sanders, thank you so much. Elizabeth Cohen with us this morning, thank you as well. We will of course stay on top of this breaking news. Now this is the first case contracted here in the United States.

ISIS, another big story we're following with some breaking developments there is on Baghdad's doorstep. The Obama administration insists the Iraqi capital is safe from the terror group. We'll take you live to Baghdad next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel says the U.S. is doing what it can to help drive back ISIS in Syria and Iraq. But the terror group appears to be advancing on two major fronts. They seized control of much of a town right on Turkey's doorstep despite U.S. air strikes earlier today.

There are also fears Anbar Province on Baghdad's doorstep could soon fall to ISIS. Its police chief has just been killed in a roadside bombing. Secretary Hagel insists Baghdad is secure, though.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Iraqi security forces are in full control of Baghdad, continue to strengthen their positions in Baghdad. We continue to help them with airstrikes, with our assistance and our advisors, which I have at the direction of President Obama added to our numbers there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman is in Baghdad. Ben, the secretary says that the ISF is in full control of Baghdad. Does that correspond with what you are seeing there on the ground?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It is in control of -- fully in control of Baghdad to the extent that they're capable of doing it. Of course, yesterday evening, we saw two very large car bombs going off within Baghdad itself. So there is always the danger of violence within the city caused by sleeper cells.

The perimeters of Baghdad do appear to be well defended at the moment. The situation in Anbar is increasingly grim. Overnight, the chief of police in Anbar Province was killed by a roadside bomb north of Ramadi.

And now that city is under a 24-hour curfew as a result of that attack. We've been told anybody steps outside their door will be shot by the Iraqi police and army.

Meanwhile, in Baquba, which is to the northwest of Baghdad, there were three bombs this morning. One was a suicide bomber and one a remotely detonated car bomb killing at least 20 people, wounding more than 30.

So, yes, Baghdad seems to be relatively safe and I underscore relative. But the situation in Anbar and other parts around the capital is definitely not very good -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Ben, if ISIS takes control of Anbar and the reporting up to this point has been 80 percent is under the control of ISIS and they start to control the water ways and the roads in, would that not then be a defacto control of the capital if you control what is in and out and what would be impact there?

WEDEMAN: Well, what we see is that is has a presence to the west, to the north, to the south of Baghdad but not to the east. So it's not that Baghdad will be completely surrounded and cut off.

The problem is, of course, that Baghdad International Airport to the west of the capitol abuts Anbar Province and essentially there are ISIS forces within about 8 miles of the airport.

At the moment, we understand there are good electronic counter measures there. That is where some of the U.S. Apache helicopters are based. There are U.S. advisors around working with Iraqi army and the defensive perimeter of Baghdad.

But certainly if ISIS is able to take full control of Anbar Province, they could make life very difficult in the capital -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Ben Wedeman reporting live for us this morning. Ben, thank you so much.

PAUL: We want to get more perspective on this with CNN military analyst, Retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona and Peter Neumann, the director of the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence. Gentlemen, thank you so much.

First of all, Rick, I want to start with you. You wrote in your blog that hopes are dwindling that U.S. airstrikes are going to help stop the ISIS momentum. We actually say it's just wishful thinking at this point. How dire do you think the situation is really? LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think it's pretty bad. We were hoping that the air power could stop the Iraqi -- I'm sorry, the ISIS advance long enough for the Iraqi military to reorganize itself, get its command structure back in order and then go back on offensive and try to retake some of these position that's they've lost.

If you look at the Euphrates Valley, the Tigris Valley, ISIS has been very successful in taking town after town. And as Ben was describing, you know, there are actions in Anbar Province are still on going.

Yet, the air power has been ineffective in stopping that. I think people are beginning to realize that the Iraqi army on the ground is totally ineffective.

PAUL: Peter, let's talk about the airport that Victor was just talking to Ben about a second ago. U.S. Apache helicopters are there. If ISIS takes control of the airport, what does that mean for Baghdad?

PETER NEUMANN, INTL. CENTER FOR STUDY OF RADICALIZATION AND POLITICAL VIOLENCE: It makes things very difficult. It makes things very difficult for the American air campaign because a lot of the helicopters are operating out of that very airport. And secondly, it makes it much more difficult to control Baghdad.

I completely agree ISIS is unlikely to take Baghdad in one go. But they do have the opportunity as your presenter said to take control of water, to control traffic, to encircle and to almost lay siege on the city. And that would make life very, very difficult in Baghdad.

PAUL: We know Baghdad is a city of 9 million people, Col. Francona. I want to read you something from a Centcom spokesman yesterday to our own Jim Sciutto. It says ISF continues to maintain firm control of the city. There's no imminent threat of an effective ISIL offensive.

Although there are pockets of ISIL in the vicinity of Baghdad, the ISF continue to conduct operations to engage these elements and push back with support of U.S. airstrikes when necessary. They are adamant that Baghdad is secure. But let's be honest.

ISIS has been so grossly underestimated. It was back in January that the president called them a JV team, didn't even worry about them. How can the coalition be so certain that Baghdad will have a force to withstand the ISIS surge if it happens?

FRANCONA: Yes, that's -- I think we've continued to underestimate ISIS and what they're able to do. I think Ben had a very good point there. They are to the north of the city, west of the city, south of the city. If you look at their operations, it looks like they're trying to encircle the city.

They'll get into a problem in the east. They'll get into more of the Shia areas. But this is typical of what ISIS does. They like to surround their targets, lay siege to them and then begin a campaign of suicide bombings. We're starting to see the suicide bombings already. They have their sights on Baghdad. We know that from the literature. They want establish Baghdad as the capital of caliphate. Raqqa in Syria is merely a temporary situation for them. Their eyes are on Baghdad and they're going to begin to go toward Baghdad until they're stopped.

PAUL: Peter, do you think that the coalition has a good gauge of how many ISIS fighters there really are right now?

NEUMANN: I think it's very difficult. You already see with the airstrikes that the lack of intelligence that exists on ISIS both in Syria and Iraq is really stunning. A lot of missions are flown and abandoned essentially without any targets being fired at because there's no information.

Because the situation has developed so quickly, it's not possible to develop that kind of nitty-gritty understanding that you need in order to really not only contain, but roll back an organization like ISIS. And, yes, I do agree it's an organization that has expanded so quickly it's hard to know exactly how many people are with them.

PAUL: Lastly, real quickly, Col. Francona, if ISIS takes Kobani in Syria and if they control Anbar that, is 350 miles of territory that they've gained. If they establish a caliphate, what exactly does that mean?

FRANCONA: Well, we can't afford to let them have all this territory. They've set up a defacto state. They've set up the organizations of a state. They have a lot of people in their organization from the Baath Party in Iraq. They know how to run a country. They want to set this up as a pseudo country. They're going to do that.

But to the point Peter was making, these guys, they're effectively command and controlling forces 350 miles apart. I think we are underestimating them and they are trying to establish this state and, you know, you have to say they're doing a fairly good job.

PAUL: All right. Colonel Francona and Peter Neumann, so appreciate your insight this morning, thank you for being with us. This is a conversation we're going to be continuing throughout the morning.

Keeping a close eye right now on a new confirmed case of Ebola in Dallas, the very first one contracted here in the U.S. We've learned this morning that a health care worker who treated Thomas Eric Duncan is the one that contracted this virus. We'll have more on that.

BLACKWELL: Also this morning, some frightening moments for passengers on a U.S. Airways jet. Imagine dropping 26,000 feet in a matter of seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Coming up on the bottom of the hour and it was a nerve- racking day in the air for U.S. Airways. They had a problem onboard two flights and understandably these problems left passengers shaken. PAUL: It was a hydraulic problem that forced one to make an emergency landing in Charlotte, North Carolina. None of the 28 passengers or four of the crew members were injured thankfully.

But in the other incident, an airbus A-320, they lost cabin pressure. This is video from the moment that it happened and after. They made a rapid dissent. One passenger home improvement TV personality, Danny Lipford, he caught the momentary crisis on his cell phone. Here is CNN's Rosa Flores.