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New Day Sunday

Search Underway For Flight 8501, 162 On Board

Aired December 28, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SUZANNE MALVEAX, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. We come to you this morning with breaking news that a massive search and rescue effort is under way for a passenger jet that's been missing for 10-1/2 hours in Southeast Asia.

MALVEAUX: Airasia Flight 8501 and was carrying 162 people when it left Indonesia bound for Singapore. This happened around 5:30 Eastern last night. Indonesian officials say that about 45 minutes later, the captain asked to fly above 38,000 feet because of bad weather.

Now minutes later the plane disappeared from radar. Airline officials are saying they lost contact about 7:24 Eastern, though, Indonesian authorities say monitored the jet for about another half hour before losing contact.

BLACKWELL: Now this is an Airbus A-3200. It was due to land at 8:30 Eastern last night. Now searchers are combing the Java Sea, east of Indonesia for any trace of the flight and, of course, the families are desperately waiting for some news.

At this time, as I'm sure you know, less than 10 months after Malaysia Airlines went missing as it flew from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people aboard. Despite a massive international search, there is still no trace of that aircraft.

MALVEAUX: A 162 people were onboard that missing plane including seven crew members, passengers were from Indonesia, South Korea, France and Malaysia.

We want to bring in our CNN's Will Ripley in Singapore and tell us what is happening now? I can't imagine the agonizing wait that these families have waiting for their loved ones onboard.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Suzanne, it is an agonizing wait that the families here in Beijing know all too well. More than 150 passengers of MH-370 went to the airport near Beijing on that awful day in March and they looked at the board with the flight numbers on it and they saw the flight.

And it said delay next to MH-370 and then only an hour after the plane was supposed to have landed they learned that plane was missing and, of course, we've all covered those awful days and weeks that followed where it was a painfully slow, inconsistent release of information.

Families were furious. They were grief stricken. They were numb. And there were a lot of hard lessons learned from the response to that crash. In the case of this flight, Airasia 8501, it did take several hours before announcements were made that plane was missing.

It certainly does take a while to figure out exactly what is happening. The plane is still missing, as you said, for more than ten hours now. So they don't have all the answers to give to the families.

But what they have done is they set up an area for the families to keep them away from the reporters and to get the information directly to them so that they do not have to find out things by reading online or watching television.

What airlines have learned in this awful year of 2014 whether we've seen now tragedies involving four different Asia-based airliners are that transparency is key. Even if they don't have all the answers, they do pass along what they know when they know it.

But just a few days left here in the year 2014, Suzanne, and who would have thought that we would be talking about something like this again?

BLACKWELL: I know that it's obviously still early in this search, the search for 370, there were a lot of marine resources and assets employed to search for that plane. What does the search for 8501 look like now? Is it strictly from the air and do we know which countries are involved?

RIPLEY: Well, we know for certain that Indonesia has deployed its military resources. You have planes that are in the air. The job also, unlike the Southern Indian Ocean where MH-370 is believed to have gone down which is quite isolated.

It's an area of such a huge vast area that searchers are trying to find this plane and haven't been successful now for ten months. In this case though, there is a lot more sea traffic. So you're going to see boats that are deployed. You're going to see aircraft.

While the initial response maybe primarily Indonesia, there will certainly be offers of assistance from other countries if it becomes clear that that kind of help is needed.

But there are a lot of key differences here, too, Victor, because they do -- they did have a radar lock on this plane. They have the radar data to go through.

They know there was a call shortly before air traffic control lost contact that there was a major storm that the plane is moving into and they were trying to get up higher to see if they could avoid it.

In the case of MH-370, there was no distress call. There was no bad weather or technical problems on the plane, which made it so baffling and still is baffling to this day. We can only hope that families of those 162 people onboard Flight 8501, let's hope they get answers far sooner than the families here in China and many other countries that are still waiting to learn what happened to their loved ones on Flight 370.

BLACKWELL: All right, Will Ripley, reporting for us in Beijing. We'll come back to you for more from that vantage point. Will, thank you so much.

MALVEAUX: I want to bring in Mary Schiavo who is our CNN aviation analyst to talk a little bit more about what we are seeing here. What are some of the things that you are looking for now. We are talking about 10-1/2 hours this plane has been missing.

We know that the pilot said that there was -- he had encountered bad weather, wanted to change the altitude quickly and then the plane went missing. What does this say to you?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST (via telephone): There are a lot of clues coming out. First and foremost, the bad weather and so many tragic air accidents, weather plays a role. Here we know that because the pilot reported it.

There is information coming out now on how it was lost on the radar. At 6:16, it was on the radar. On 6:17, it was not, and then it lost radio contact. What is interesting is it -- interesting is it has -- interesting comparison to Air France 447 because in that case, the plane was cooling down.

And it's an interesting thing in airbus does. An airbus tries to save itself. So it will cool down on necessary functions to try to keep the plane aloft. And looking at the weather radar on the winds, it had really strong winds.

This plane would have had a tail wind which would have harmed the air speed, would have caused some air speed deterioration. So there are lot of factors going on that really indicate that at the time the plane was lost from radar that's probably where the plane was lost.

BLACKWELL: Mary, the "Associated Press" is reporting that we're getting from the Indonesian acting director general of transportation that there was no distress signal sent from the cockpit. What does that tell you? Should the officials there in Indonesia have expected to receive that considering that quite possibly this plane went down because of the bad weather?

SCHIAVO: Well, the fact they didn't call a mayday, which means they were in imminent danger of losing the plane or the pan-pan, probably indicates to me that they didn't have time.

When they realized something was going wrong, they were attending to the plane or trying to figure out what is going wrong with the plane, they just did not at that point have time to get the mayday call off.

Now if they were in a situation where the bad weather or it's possible, you know, something gone wrong on the plane on Air France 447, they had air speed indication. And on this plane, there's been a warning on the air speed indicators if they have a problem in the bad weather and a problem on the plane exacerbated it.

They have to fly the plane first. So many accidents, you just don't have the mayday call. There is not time. So to me, it says there was something seriously wrong and they were fighting and probably fighting to save the plane.

MALVEAUX: Mary, talk about Airasia we understand has never really experienced a major crash and that this is an airplane that according to records was in good shape. It sounds like this was something that was really weather based. It was the conditions of the plane.

Was there any indication to you that if it had been a different airline or different aircraft that they could have somehow saved that plane from those thunderstorms from the kind of conditions that they underwent on that flight?

SCHIAVO: Well, going back to air crash investigations and the work of the NTSB and others, you know, most of the time -- about 75 percent of the cases even where you have weather problems or aircraft problems, they do find problems with piloting.

For example, on Air France 447, they had a problem with the plane. But the chief cause of the accident she cited, pilots. The pilots didn't realize the air speed was deteriorating and they didn't respond properly to save that air speed.

You know, they got to keep that air flowing over the wings including if they have to dive to keep the air speed going, same thing on West Caribbean 708. There they encountered thunderstorms at cruising altitude as this one was and at very high altitude, they can't climb out of it.

They're already at operational ceiling in some cases on the plane. The planes don't go much over 40,000 feet unless you have a special permission. So they couldn't climb out of it. But there also cited the pilots failing to realize that they were in icing conditions.

That air speed is what kept them in the air and so even though you have a problem with the plane, statistically speaking, our own NTSB finds pilot error in three fourth of the cases. It is very important on the training aspect.

BLACKWELL: All right, Mary Schiavo, CNN aviation analyst, thank you so much for your expertise. We'll come and speak with you several times throughout the show. Stand by for us. Thank you, Mary.

MALVEAUX: Also want to bring in our meteorologist, Derek Van Dam, who is joining us from the CNN weather center to talk about what were the conditions here that this plane was undergoing? I understand it was several weather systems coming together.

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, that's right. Good morning, Suzanne. There have been reports that there have been roughly between three thunderstorms that the pilot needs to navigate. And it's very clear with our latest satellite imagery that this area demarcated by the green circle, which is the region where we have the last point of contact with air traffic control.

There was a significant amount of intense monsoonal thunderstorm activity across the Java Sea. Navigating is very difficult. It's become very clear for the overnight that we have reports that this plane was asking to ascend to 38,000 feet.

This is important because thunderstorms can often peak higher than that, 40,000 to 50,000 feet in some instances. That altitude, we're talking temperatures well below freezing.

That means any of the moisture in that area will be in the form of super cooled water droplets meaning ice and possibility on the wings and the very important instruments on an airplane that impacts the travel conditions and also the speed of the airplane.

This is a very typical weather pattern for this area. We're incurring monsoonal conditions. That is set to continue for the next several days. Search and rescue efforts are hindered by this particular weather scenario.

MALVEAUX: Derek, I'm curious though. Is this the kind of thing that pilot would have been aware of prior? Could he have gotten some sort of warning from air traffic control or the radar signals that the bad weather was coming or was that a total surprise?

VAN DAM: Well, typically they would get briefed on the weather conditions for the first part of their journey. You know, radar only have a certain diameter they can see out ahead of the ongoing plane. So pilots really refer and reference their onboard radar system to give them that accurate information.

And it is so accurate that they have a few minutes at least at the very minimum to navigate around big thunderstorm cells like this. When they peak at 50,000 feet in the air, there's no way to get around or even up and over the storms without encountering the worst of the turbulence.

BLACKWELL: All right. Derek Van Dam, thank you so much for joining us. I want to talk about what the search and rescue teams are facing as they head out. The planes are in the air searching for 8501. We'll take a quick break and continue our breaking news conference this morning of the search for Airasia Flight 8501.

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BLACKWELL: Welcome back. It's 15 minutes after the hour now. We're continuing our breaking news coverage about 11 hours now since the last contact with Airasia Flight 8501, 162 people onboard.

I want to bring in CNN safety analyst, David Sucie, also the author of "Why Planes Crash." He's an FAA safety inspector. We know that thunderstorms were in the area when this plane went down, David. Is there any indication of what we're learning from the Indonesian authorities that this could be attributed to any other factor beyond the rough weather?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST (via telephone): No, there's no indication right now, Victor. There are indications that the severe weather was not just thunderstorms but also wind shear. If we look at the aircraft they were flying in the same area.

There was a 777 flying at a speed of 503 knots very near this aircraft this aircraft was at 350 knots which would indicate that it had a head wind, a significant head wind compared to the 777 which is in the same area.

So what that is telling us is there is a lot of turbulence activity going on in that area. One aircraft is going with no head wind and the other has severe head wind. So that tells us there were some wind shear sections within that area that are very concerning to me when I look at this now.

MALVEAUX: And, David, this is an Airbus A-32200 single twin engine jetliner. We understand the plane's last scheduled maintenance was November 16th. What does that tell you about the condition of the plane and the specific plane that was flying?

SOUCIE: Well, that data is very significant for one reason. There was an air witness directive issued just this month and that directive was required to be accomplished, but because of the fact it was November 17th, I'm questioning whether or not they have the opportunity to get that air witness directive done.

What that air witness directive involves is the air speed indicators, the actual receiving of the information into the aircraft, there was an aircraft fairly recently who had both air speed -- excuse me, the angle of attack indicators were stuck at a certain level.

So thereby causing an emergency situation in the aircraft when they had to change the altitude and almost have to land the aircraft. But it was recovered before that. But because of that incident, this air witness directive was issued and that air witness directive we don't know whether it's been complied with or not.

There's no reason to think it wouldn't have been. Because the maintenance was November 17th this air witness directive may or may not have been complied with yet.

BLACKWELL: So David, we learned from aviation analyst, Mary Schiavo, just a few moments ago that the airbus 320-200, it tries to save itself. She said by pairing down some of the functions on the plane.

We also know this is coming from the Associated Press that the Indonesian acting director general of transportation says there was no distress signal from the cockpit.

Considering the potential pairing down of functions, would that still have been an option for this pilot? If some of the functions are shutting down, could he have still sent that mayday call?

SOUCIE: There are several ways to issue a mayday call. Yes, it definitely could have been made even if the shutting down of instruments, say, that there was a mechanical or some kind of electrical failure on the aircraft.

There are five different communication methods onboard the aircraft including almost a text message that sends through the airing, through the link that they have with the operator and carrier so there are many different ways for them to do this.

Now whether or not it was accomplished, that's not their first priority. The first priority is to fly the aircraft and to maintain flight altitude and to then put the aircraft into a safety flight altitude.

So at that point, then they would contact and say, yes, we have an emergency. We need to do something about it. So it wouldn't be uncommon to not make that distress call if there was something severe going on at that moment.

BLACKWELL: All right, David Soucie, CNN safety analyst, and also the author of "Why Planes Crash," and former FAA safety inspector. Stay with us throughout the morning, David. We'll be coming back to you as we learn more about this search for 8501.

MALVEAUX: We're also learning more about the passengers as well. Airasia has released a list of the nationalities of those onboard. We now know that 149 are Indonesian, three are from South Korea, one is from Singapore, one from Malaysia and one from United Kingdom.

This is heartbreaking when you hear this. But 17 children including an infant were among those who were actually onboard. We want to bring in our own Tom Fuentes, CNN analyst and FBI assistant director to talk a little bit more about what we think we are in this scenario.

Because you might remember the other airline that the missing plane that we had covered for quite some time, the Malaysian Flight 370, there was so much angst and pain that people felt just waiting.

What do you think were some of the lessons that we learned from covering that that this airline is going to be dealing with in helping them get through this very difficult time?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning, Suzanne. I think the main thing that should have been learned, we hoped was learned, was that, you know, the communication that's put out by the airline, by the authorities and the country is very important.

They need to start immediately notifying the public and particularly isolate the passengers -- passenger's families and, you know, keep them informed. Keep them protected from the media at large, from other sources of bad information, try to keep them informed as to what they're doing.

If nothing else, just show the concern of the authorities in taking care of them. We hope that lesson was learned. This is going to be very difficult because the Java Sea, you know, although the sea is very shallow by comparison to the Indian Ocean, it is 150 feet, but you have the condition that's are so horrendous.

This pilot might not have been able to fly in any direction to avoid the terrible weather that was encountered. And if that affected the instrumented or affected the ability of the plane to stay in the air, you know, that's going to cause it to go down.

Now the authorities have had almost a full day of daylight already to be looking for it. But, again, can the surf planes fly in that kind of weather? Can the ships look for debris in that turbulent of water and air? So that's a difficult thing.

Also a lot of people are aware that Indonesia has 17,000 separate islands. You have all of these little islands all over the area. There are a lot of ships in the area. There are a lot of places that plane could have gone down on land or sea.

So that part of the search is going to be very important. It's just become dark there in the last couple of hours. It's only 7:30 at night. They're going to have a long wait until daylight hours to resume the search over the ocean.

BLACKWELL: Tom, remember from the days, the early days of the search for 370 that there were questions and concerns or jurisdiction, which country, which agency had jurisdiction over information and the search areas. What will be the roles of the UK, of Singapore, of the other countries that had passengers from that country's onboard with this investigation?

FUENTES: Well, the investigation is going to be run by the Indonesians. It was their flight, their carrier. They will be responsible and in charge. Now getting help from the British or other authorities is something that's routinely done.

I would expect that to be done. But you have especially in this case it's an air bus. It is manufactured in Europe. Many of the components are manufactured in the U.S. and in other countries.

So those countries could play a role in assisting. The bulk of the passengers you have are Indonesians. So Indonesia is in charge. Everybody else will be providing assistance as necessary.

MALVEAUX: And, Tom, we're learning more about the airline itself. We know that it's popular in the region and a no frills carrier and connects a lot of the smaller, as you mentioned, the islands to some of the major cities in Southeast Asia.

And what would be the role? We know that President Obama is actually notified of the missing plane. We know NTSB gets involved and throughout the world in some of the investigations. How would the United States play a role in this missing plane?

FUENTES: Well, the U.S. will offer any and all assistance as possible. So, you know, if we have naval ships in the area, research ships in the area, certainly they can be brought in and used to assist. I think that many countries will be offering any of the assets that can be brought to bear. A lot of that will depend on how long. You wouldn't have expected this to go this far and I think yet again that heightens the aspect of this that it's a mystery where that plane went down even though it's more confined area. It's a smaller plane, less fuel.

It was only on a two-hour flight. Not on a long range flight like the MH 370 was. I think that the hope is that the plane will be located or the crash site if it comes to that will be located hopefully sometime tomorrow during the daylight hours.

MALVEAUX: Tom, why are you so optimistic about that? That it would be recovered so quickly?

FUENTES: Well, I think just that it's such a smaller, much smaller area and they can confine the search more accurately to, you know, that area of the Java Sea or the landmass to the west of it in Indonesia and again all the different islands in there.

That is also a very heavy shipping lane in that part of the Java Sea. They might be in position to see debris. If you recall in MH-370 it came out that for days the search had been centered in the wrong ocean.

So I think that, you know, hopefully in this case, we are not dealing with that. We are not dealing with a plane that went thousands of miles off course, but is somewhere in that area.

MALVEAUX: All right. Tom Fuentes, thank you so much, we appreciate it. This might be a very different scenario that we saw in MH-370 because of the area that it is contained, that people would be able to get to that portion in the Java Sea quickly as soon as the becomes daylight.

BLACKWELL: As we learned from Will Ripley, who was there in Beijing that he says they had a radar lock on this plane unlike 370. They have a better idea of where this plane was when they last had contact. We also know the CEO of Airasia is in route to Surabaya in Indonesia.

He tweeted earlier, thank you for your thoughts and prayers. We must stay strong. We'll continue our coverage for the search of Airasia 8501.

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